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View Full Version : Stars as holes in the floor of heaven (sf Christians banned)



Patrick Byrom
19-01-2020, 09:20 PM
In Byron one such born again was very persistent in attempting to convert the local aborigines even though warned many times. It wasn't pretty. You must admit the dream time stories are more interesting than stars being holes in the floor of heavenExcept that stars being holes in the floor of heaven is not actually in the Bible:

[1:14] And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
[1:15] and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so.
[1:16] God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars.
[1:17] God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
[1:18] to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
[1:19] And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

antichrist
19-01-2020, 11:54 PM
Except that stars being holes in the floor of heaven is not actually in the Bible:

[1:14] And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
[1:15] and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so.
[1:16] God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars.
[1:17] God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
[1:18] to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
[1:19] And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

I never claimed it was in the Bible. Catholics are famous for not being Biblical Christians indeed they barred it from being printed in the vernacular. My then teacher I imagine would have been born around year 1900 and could have only had five years of schooling as the law was then. We never had text books so it was only what was written up on the black board and we copied. That could not be excessive due to in winter we could not write to about 11am due to our fingers being frozen and stiff. Because of the drought of 61 I knew by then that rain came from clouds. I came top in religion so I could not have messed up the religious lessons too badly.

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2020, 11:46 AM
Thought I'd split this stuff in the hope of containing antichrist's babble about it to a single thread henceforth.

My sole contribution to this matter is that former Go-Betweens singer Grant McLennan (1958-2006) must have been aware of this story about stars as his song "What Went Wrong" (1994) includes the lines "What about the stars/ if you want more/ they're just holes in heaven's floor". There are other songs that mention it too. (Namedrop: I had the very good fortune to unexpectedly see Grant performing this song and many others from the same album live before it had been released, then met him by chance in Battery Point the next day.)

It isn't possible to quickly determine online where the line comes from, so I doubt it is part of any established western religion's teachings.

antichrist
20-01-2020, 01:38 PM
I just did a search, it is a very common concept. There are songs about it websites, Shakespeare makes a mention sort of. It refers to dead relos in heaven their tears are coming down as rain through those holes. See I said it was poetic and mystical.

Patrick Byrom
20-01-2020, 01:54 PM
I never claimed it was in the Bible. Catholics are famous for not being Biblical Christians indeed they barred it from being printed in the vernacular. ...Catholics also don't tend to proselytise. The proselytisers who are bothering that Aboriginal community would almost certainly be evangelical Protestants - who would know their Bible very well.

Patrick Byrom
20-01-2020, 02:00 PM
... My sole contribution to this matter is that former Go-Betweens singer Grant McLennan (1958-2006) must have been aware of this story about stars as his song "What Went Wrong" (1994) includes the lines "What about the stars/ if you want more/ they're just holes in heaven's floor". There are other songs that mention it too. (Namedrop: I had the very good fortune to unexpectedly see Grant performing this song and many others from the same album live before it had been released, then met him by chance in Battery Point the next day.)

It isn't possible to quickly determine online where the line comes from, so I doubt it is part of any established western religion's teachings.And evangelical Christians would not be spreading such an unBiblical story. Off-topic, but the Go-Betweens have a bridge named after them in Brisbane - which I often cross on the way home from the Brisbane Club.

Ian Murray
20-01-2020, 02:39 PM
I just did a search, it is a very common concept. There are songs about it websites, Shakespeare makes a mention sort of. It refers to dead relos in heaven their tears are coming down as rain through those holes. See I said it was poetic and mystical.

I have vague childhood memories of the stars/pinpricks as a religious fable, along with individual guardian angels, heaven in the sky and hell underground.

antichrist
20-01-2020, 02:44 PM
I think the temperance movement came from the prodo side. Right to life may have been more Catholic.

antichrist
20-01-2020, 02:49 PM
I have vague childhood memories of the stars/pinpricks as a religious fable, along with individual guardian angels, heaven in the sky and hell underground.

I remember too well we would go around slapping our left shoulder because that was where Satan sat whilst whispering evil things into our left ear. No wonder I now have vertigo on my left side. Been laid up for three days and having a big party tomorrow and the place is a mess.

Ian Murray
20-01-2020, 02:55 PM
I think the temperance movement came from the prodo side. Right to life may have been more Catholic.

Not too many temperate Irishmen among my forebears

Ian Murray
20-01-2020, 02:56 PM
I remember too well we would go around slapping our left shoulder because that was where Satan sat whilst whispering evil things into our left ear. No wonder I now have vertigo on my left side. Been laid up for three days and having a big party tomorrow and the place is a mess.

In Latin 'left' = 'sinister'. No coincidence

antichrist
20-01-2020, 03:05 PM
Satan (shatan) is a common Arabic expression, let the shatan take you or that shatan . If your hands are full and lightning strikes you say "in the name of the cross". The Filipinos say Jesus Mary and Joseph every 5 mins

Capablanca-Fan
22-01-2020, 08:48 AM
I have vague childhood memories of the stars/pinpricks as a religious fable, along with individual guardian angels, heaven in the sky and hell underground.

But presumably not in the science classes?

Desmond
22-01-2020, 09:05 AM
Wasn't there one about the stars being in a tent or cloak above the world, or something?

Kevin Bonham
23-01-2020, 09:42 AM
Posts moved

Posts discussing creationism moved over here:

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?17878-Creationism-(sf-stars-as-holes-etc)

That thread may be merged with one of the existing creationism threads later; haven't decided which yet.

Any comments on this may be made in the Help and Feedback section only.

Kevin Bonham
23-01-2020, 01:04 PM
Post deleted

Further to the above, further posts mentioning creationism on this thread will be deleted if they appear to be trolling and not natural thread drift.

Any comments on this may be made in the Help and Feedback section only.

antichrist
02-02-2020, 12:25 PM
How could I forget a few years ago I helped a primary school student with a speech on a science topic. In it I described how the universe worked but was "imperfect" and how we could wreak it all. She topped the class and had to read it out in front of the whole school. Not bad from someone who failed Intermediate Certificate science in mid sixties because I did not attend lessons .

The next speech she requested I not make so good.

Patrick Byrom
02-02-2020, 03:53 PM
How could I forget a few years ago I helped a primary school student with a speech on a science topic. In it I described how the universe worked but was "imperfect" and how we could wreak it all. She topped the class and had to read it out in front of the whole school. Not bad from someone who failed Intermediate Certificate science in mid sixties because I did not attend lessons . The next speech she requested I not make so good.I know I'm going to regret asking this, but how exactly could we "wreak" the universe?

antichrist
02-02-2020, 04:37 PM
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but how exactly could we "wreak" the universe?

Wreck it all was referring to the planet via nuclear weapons, global warming and over population etc.. imperfect design referred to one planet in a different direction or orbit or a giant comet hitting Earth and putting us out of kilter. I checked everything with my astronomer brother in law and the English with my perfect language sister. I finished the Intermediate at Cleveland Street Boys High in evenings. I noticed in English especially that the English master there was far superior to the nuns. And we did not have to spell big ecclesiastical words.

Capablanca-Fan
04-02-2020, 01:47 AM
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but how exactly could we "wreak" the universe?

Possibly we could wreak havoc with it, or at least the planet we occupy.

Capablanca-Fan
04-02-2020, 01:54 AM
a giant comet hitting Earth and putting us out of kilter.
It would have negligible effect on either the earth's orbit or its axial tilt. You can easily show this by looking at angular momentum. A giant comet would be devastating for life on earth though.

Actually, even the largest asteroid, Ceres, hitting the earth on a glancing blow near the poles would change the axial tilt by ~1.5. And this asteroid is about 857,000 times more massive than a giant comet.

antichrist
04-02-2020, 05:29 AM
One aside. That tiny volcano exploding in the Philippines called Taal I visited forty years ago. Mostly I remember about it was a giant billboard as big as a small house warning children to be careful of Australian peodafiles.

It's pollution has even reached northern Philippines.