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View Full Version : Where's the support from the Mexicans???



Trent Parker
15-12-2004, 06:57 AM
Just thought i would start this thread considering the low numbers so far in the Minor tournament.

Considering that there appears to be a number of welshers going down to mount Buller i was wondering

Wheres the support from the mexicans??????

Trent Parker
15-12-2004, 07:27 PM
Hey Starter.... How many Box Hill people playing in the minor?????

ursogr8
15-12-2004, 07:52 PM
Hey Starter.... How many Box Hill people playing in the minor?????


Luv your question TCN. It has a how many in it. A chance to show some metrics.

OK. Here are some
> We received 3 box fulls of red and blue entry booklets (3 from memory).
>> Probabaly 25 booklets left out of a few hundred.
>>> Number of juniors going...... not privy to this because I don't socialise with them too much....but I reckon about 20+
>>>> Rech'....nah....he is broke
>>>>> Arty...nah....watches Collingwood pre-season
> John Butler.....nah...he is in his mid-eighties
>> Bob B.....nah...but has done before; but over-rated now
>>> Weibemeister...nah...flat-out at work
>>>> Ascaro.......nah......in the bigger one
> Marieke...see JB
>> jeez, I had better ask some next Friday.


starter

Garvinator
15-12-2004, 07:54 PM
>> jeez, I had better ask some next Friday.
that would be helpful :)

Trent Parker
15-12-2004, 08:14 PM
Thanks starter...

Hmmm whose my next target?????

Anyone from MCC here?

Is anyone from MCC going???

Garvinator
15-12-2004, 08:32 PM
Thanks starter...

Hmmm whose my next target?????

Anyone from MCC here?

Is anyone from MCC going???
i dont think you will be able to ask one group of mexicans ;) :whistle:

ursogr8
15-12-2004, 08:38 PM
i dont think you will be able to ask one group of mexicans ;) :whistle:

Well don't hold me in suspense rag''gy''.
Which group of Mexicans can't be asked?
We do know about 'puters down here you know.
Many guests dial in here.

starter

Garvinator
15-12-2004, 08:57 PM
Well don't hold me in suspense rag''gy''.
Which group of Mexicans can't be asked?
We do know about 'puters down here you know.
Many guests dial in here.

starter
well i am not allowed to mention the unmentionable one :eek: :whistle: so you cant ask that group :doh:

Trent Parker
15-12-2004, 09:54 PM
well i am not allowed to mention the unmentionable one :eek: :whistle: so you cant ask that group :doh:

ohhh a-huh

Garvinator
16-12-2004, 09:59 AM
People were also looking for info on where to stay and about Mt Buller in the booklets so if something is produced for future events it might be worth incorporating more of that detail (or at least links to that kind of info).
yes, this type of information will definetely be included if we have future accor events, but lets stay with the thread title, where are the mexicans for the minor as trent wants to know.

arosar
16-12-2004, 10:05 AM
yes, this type of information will definetely be included if we have future accor events, but lets stay with the thread title, where are the mexicans for the minor as trent wants to know.

Surely gray, your little exchange with 'Bas' forms part of the answer.

AR

ursogr8
16-12-2004, 10:27 AM
Surely gray, your little exchange with 'Bas' forms part of the answer.

AR
Yes, Amiel...you are correct I think.

A 1600 rating certainly is a dividing line in (adult) players at Box Hill. Those above are serious, and will go chasing tourneys. Those below, tend to be coffee-house casuals...who enjoy their game, but a mile is about their limit.

starter

Oepty
16-12-2004, 05:31 PM
From the list of entrants Garvin placed up on the 13th there was 23 or 24 victorians enter depending on whether you count Bjelobrk as a Victorian compared to 12 from New South Wales. One answer could therefore be that they are playing in the open not the minor.

Garvinator
16-12-2004, 05:37 PM
From the list of entrants Garvin placed up on the 13th there was 23 or 24 victorians enter depending on whether you count Bjelobrk as a Victorian compared to 12 from New South Wales. One answer could therefore be that they are playing in the open not the minor.
i dont think that is quite a fair comparison as the players you are talking about are not eligible for the minor.

Out of the seven rated players in the open that could play in the minor, five are from victoria, which I think is a fair percentage as they have less distance to travel for what would most likely be a low scoring tournament for them.

To make a fair comparison or analysis, it should be asked about players under 1600.

Oepty
16-12-2004, 05:39 PM
Fair enough, the comparison wasn't the greatest, but I think it unfair to critize Victorians for lack of support for major chess events

Garvinator
16-12-2004, 05:47 PM
Fair enough, the comparison wasn't the greatest, but I think it unfair to critize Victorians for lack of support for major chess events
it was asked by tparker, not myself ;)

Trent Parker
16-12-2004, 09:28 PM
Fair enough, the comparison wasn't the greatest, but I think it unfair to critize Victorians for lack of support for major chess events



Mt Buller Minor
List of Players

No Name Feder Rtg Loc

1. KATNIC, Eddy NSW 1591
2. SIMMONDS, Rex NSW 1550
3. PARKER, Trent NSW 1367
4. SWEENEY, Matthew NSW 1324
5. CHIDDY, Lance NSW 932
6. KENMURE, Jamie VIC 909
7. CHIDDY, Rory NSW


What was that about lack of support again for the minor ????

Trent Parker
16-12-2004, 10:18 PM
Mt Buller Minor
List of Players

No Name Feder Rtg Loc

1. KATNIC, Eddy NSW 1591
2. SIMMONDS, Rex NSW 1550
3. PARKER, Trent NSW 1367
4. SWEENEY, Matthew NSW 1324
5. CHIDDY, Lance NSW 932
6. KENMURE, Jamie VIC 909
7. CHIDDY, Rory NSW


umm

where Are The Mexicans????.

ursogr8
17-12-2004, 07:20 AM
well i am not allowed to mention the unmentionable one :eek: :whistle: so you cant ask that group :doh:

I think the reason we went blank on your original question gg'' is that this group, that you call a group, actually doesn't have a single candidiate in the category that tcn's query covered.

The GURU's group is
> juniors (and you would not expect them in the minor)
>> coaches (and you would not expect them in the minor)
>>> franchisees (and you would not expect them in the minor :uhoh: )
>>>> office staff (and you would not expect them in the minor :doh: )
>>>>> the GURU (and you would not expect him in the minor :cool: )
>>>>>> chess books and equipment (and you would not expect them in the minor)
>>>>>>> shopfront (and you would not expect it in the minor)
>>>>>>>> and titles (and you would not expect them in the minor ;) )

>> and zero U1600 adults.



See, there is no actual CLUB at GURULAND. That it is why it is hard for him to affiliate in CV....in spite of fg7's urging.


starter

ursogr8
18-12-2004, 12:02 PM
Mt Buller Minor
List of Players

No Name Feder Rtg Loc

1. KATNIC, Eddy NSW 1591
2. SIMMONDS, Rex NSW 1550
3. PARKER, Trent NSW 1367
4. SWEENEY, Matthew NSW 1324
5. CHIDDY, Lance NSW 932
6. KENMURE, Jamie VIC 909
7. CHIDDY, Rory NSW


umm

where Are The Mexicans????.

Dear tcn

I have used the December 2004 ACF VIC rated active players list to count the following

Rated above 2000 = 45 players
Rated from 1600 to 2000 = 177 players
Rated from 1200 to 1600 = 213 players
Rated under 1200 = 151 players

This does not answer where Are The Mexicans?.
Nor is there an alternative chess tournament in the Melbourne locale.
I think we have to presume they are going to the cricket/tennis/or Rosebud pier, instead of Mt B..

regards
starter

Trent Parker
18-12-2004, 12:13 PM
Dear tcn

I think we have to presume they are going to the cricket/tennis/or Rosebud pier, instead of Mt B..

regards
starter

Cricket The 2nd to the 6th is traditionally the Sydney test match

Tennis : Generally at this time the only tennis tournament is the Hopman Cup or the Adelaide mens tourney. There is no tennis in melbourne at this time.


Rosebud pier: What The........?

ursogr8
18-12-2004, 12:21 PM
Cricket The 2nd to the 6th is traditionally the Sydney test match

Tennis : Generally at this time the only tennis tournament is the Hopman Cup or the Adelaide mens tourney. There is no tennis in melbourne at this time.


Rosebud pier: What The........?

Rosebud pier
is one of our premier attractions:
You can get


a gelati
sand between your toes
a ride on the 'juniors' train
cheap flippers
a game of beach cricket or badminton


a girl-friend.


starter

Trent Parker
18-12-2004, 12:29 PM
Ok so its a beach. I hate beaches. *grumble* *grumble* *grumble*


Where are the mexicans for the Minor

I'll be happy when there are 12 players in the tourney with at least half mexicans. Until then the relentless sparking by me. (Sparking = not quite flaming :D )

PHAT
18-12-2004, 01:18 PM
Rosebud pier
is one of our premier attractions:
You can get


a gelati
sand between your toes
a ride on the 'juniors' train
cheap flippers
a game of beach cricket or badminton


a girl-friend.


starter

Is that all you have? Sounds like a bad day in Sydney.

ursogr8
18-12-2004, 01:34 PM
Is that all you have? Sounds like a bad day in Sydney.

Careful my friend.
You will have Shaun on your wheel for perpetuating interstate rivalries.

Now you and I should just tip-toe out of here quietly so that TP can on with the business of (finding and) encouraging 12 Mexicans that he can beat.

starter

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 01:37 PM
so that TP can on with the business of (finding and) encouraging 12 Mexicans that he can beat.

starter
i would rather just see 12 more paid entrants, regardless of which state they come from, but yes players from CV would be good :D

Spiny Norman
18-12-2004, 01:49 PM
I find it difficult enough to allocate regular time to playing even Friday-night casual games @ Box Hill (which is about 1/2 an hour away from home), let alone committing to a series of regular tournament games over consecutive days in a country-VIC location. Maybe it'll get easier when my kids are grown up? Because my wife and I both work we have to plan and coordinate holidays a long time ahead ... and frankly, wonderful though my wife is, I can't see her agreeing to a summer Mt Buller break in preference to our usual Coolangatta beach-side holiday when we escape Melbourne in the depths of its winter. This year I'm working right through Christmas/New Year/January with only the gazetted days off, so it was never on option for me.

jenni
18-12-2004, 02:11 PM
Maybe it'll get easier when my kids are grown up? .
Yes - I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and believe there is life after children. :)

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 08:11 PM
Back to the point of the thread.

Why isn't there any support of this event (minor) from the mexicans?????
it could be argued, not just from the mexicans ;)

Trent Parker
18-12-2004, 08:15 PM
Fair Point ggray.

Where is the support from all those U1600

Especially mexicans because it is in their state..... it is closest to them.

JGB
18-12-2004, 08:19 PM
I have not been keeping good track of the Australian Championship debates, probably because I can't play in it! :(
Am I correct in asssuming that there are three divisions. Major, Minor and Junior?

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 08:27 PM
I have not been keeping good track of the Australian Championship debates, probably because I can't play in it! :(
Am I correct in asssuming that there are three divisions. Major, Minor and Junior?
no. Just the Australian Open and Mt Buller Minor(for players under 1600)

Trent Parker
18-12-2004, 08:28 PM
Yep

-the main event
-the minor
The juniors

The juniors are held after the main event

JGB
18-12-2004, 08:30 PM
no. Just the Australian Open and Mt Buller Minor(for players under 1600)

I am not knowledgable about these things, but is it possible that because the minor is not rated under 1800 or 2000 that there is a less that expected number at the moment? Most of the t-ments I have played in here have two divisions, but usually over and under 2000. Players under 2000 can play in the major for an extra 10 Euro usually. Just some thoughts.

Trent Parker
18-12-2004, 08:42 PM
IN australia Majors are for people under 2000
Minor is for people U1600

Previous minors have been very successful

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 08:53 PM
I am not knowledgable about these things, but is it possible that because the minor is not rated under 1800 or 2000 that there is a less that expected number at the moment? Most of the t-ments I have played in here have two divisions, but usually over and under 2000. Players under 2000 can play in the major for an extra 10 Euro usually. Just some thoughts.
we are restricted by acf bylaws as well. In odd number years, the Australian open is run. The tournament organisers can run a minor tournament if they wish, but it has no official standing.

In even number years, the Australian Championship is run which is for players with an acf rating over 2150. There is also the Australian Reserves Tournament for players under 2150.

JGB
18-12-2004, 09:07 PM
Major (for under 2000), minor (uner 1600), junior (after the main tournament)
Thats already three divisions and we are not in the over 2000 class :)
where do the over 2000 play?

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 09:08 PM
Major (for under 2000), minor (uner 1600), junior (after the main tournament)
Thats already three divisions and we are not in the over 2000 class :)
where do the over 2000 play?
in odd number years, in the open. in the even number years, the reserves championship.

The Australian Junior Championship is a completely different event. They are normally run at different times of the year as to the open/championships and at a different venue, even city.

This year they are at the same venue, Mt Buller and the juniors is being run straight after the open.

JGB
18-12-2004, 09:14 PM
Ahhh, then I think I have. :confused:

Garvinator
18-12-2004, 09:24 PM
Ahhh, then I think I have. :confused:
you think you have what? :uhoh:

JGB
18-12-2004, 09:29 PM
you think you have what? :uhoh:

an understanding of the Australian Chess Championship structure. ;)

jenni
18-12-2004, 10:36 PM
I am not knowledgable about these things, but is it possible that because the minor is not rated under 1800 or 2000 that there is a less that expected number at the moment? Most of the t-ments I have played in here have two divisions, but usually over and under 2000. Players under 2000 can play in the major for an extra 10 Euro usually. Just some thoughts.

I would think an under 1600 would predominantly get "local" players and there aren't any at Mt Buller.

PHAT
19-12-2004, 06:39 AM
Maybe it'll get easier when my kids are grown up? Because my wife and I both work we have to plan and coordinate holidays a long time ahead ... and frankly, wonderful though my wife is, I can't see her agreeing to a summer Mt Buller break in preference to our usual Coolangatta beach-side holiday when we escape Melbourne in the depths of its winter.


Look a moy, look a moy, look a moooooooy. I've got one word to say to you Frosty. Quid pro quo.

All the profoundly personal humiliations I subject my self to in marriage, are to maintain a viable number of Brownie Points in order that I can do as I please at other times. My wife also maintains a stash of Brownie Points in the same manner.

We look at it as the only way to to be married with kids and happy.

(To tell the truth, the humiliations are not true humiliations, but by declaring that they are we both get Brownie points galgore, and everone is happy. In the end it is called co-operation for maintaining individual sanity.)

Trent Parker
19-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Major (for under 2000), minor (uner 1600), junior (after the main tournament)
Thats already three divisions and we are not in the over 2000 class :)
where do the over 2000 play?

There is no Major in the Australian Open. There is only

-The open section
-The Minor section
- JUniors after the Open.

Oepty
19-12-2004, 02:49 PM
Looking at the latest lists on here there are 8 players from Victoria rated under 1600 playing at mount buller, but 7 are playing the open. While from NSW there are also 8 players rated under 1600 playing at Mt Buller, but 6 of them are playing in the minor. I don't think you have much of a complaint.

Spiny Norman
19-12-2004, 06:27 PM
Look a moy, look a moy, look a moooooooy. I've got one word to say to you Frosty. Quid pro quo.

One of my nicknames here @ home is "Kimmy"? :) How did you guess? :doh:

Trent Parker
19-12-2004, 09:20 PM
Looking at the latest lists on here there are 8 players from Victoria rated under 1600 playing at mount buller, but 7 are playing the open. While from NSW there are also 8 players rated under 1600 playing at Mt Buller, but 6 of them are playing in the minor. I don't think you have much of a complaint.


* it is in victoria so i would expect there to be more people than NSW in both tourneys from victoria than NSW.

*My complaint is still valid because there are only 7 people in the minor

*to tell you the truth i couln't really give a fat rats **** about the Open at the moment because it has over 60 entrants. there are only 7 people in the minor

This is currently the tournament i'm worried about.

This is the tournament i am playing in.

This is the tournament that Needs help from the mexicans.

Trent Parker
19-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Sorry starter i stuffed your post up. i must have clicked on edit instead of quote. :(

My mistake. *makes mental not to make sure in future*

I will contact Gary wastell. But i dont know what good it will do considering it is so close to entry closing time.

Garvinator
19-12-2004, 10:35 PM
Trent,

the organising team are in arrangements with a couple of the junior coaches who will be bringing players up for the open. He said that he will also be most likely be able to bring a few players for the minor.

I cant add names to the list as they are not confirmed yet and have not paid. Awaiting to see an updated paid list in the next couple of days.

firegoat7
19-12-2004, 10:51 PM
Personally I think that their might be two additional reasons for the low player registration, apart from the usual chessplayers leave everything to the last minute.

1- The junior and minor events clash.

Juniors are generally under1600, but most will play in the junior turnaments instead of the minor- afterall- wouldn't you prefer to be Australian U10,12,14,16,18 instead of Australian minor champ?

2- Ratings inflation.
Generally I think that your stock standard 1500 player from previous years (ie pre-glicko) is generally about 1600-1700 nowdays. This is just an educated guess, but I would not be surprised if it affects the numbers.

Now of course I am talking generally not from a Mexican point of view, but the initial participant registration rates seem to suggest that the minor might be in a bit of trouble. Hopefully I am wrong on my last point.

Cheers FG7

Garvinator
19-12-2004, 11:00 PM
Now of course I am talking generally not from a Mexican point of view, but the initial participant registration rates seem to suggest that the minor might be in a bit of trouble. Hopefully I am wrong on my last point.

Cheers FG7
unfortunately you are right. It will still go ahead as we have enough entries for a comp and we are still sticking to the prize money listed, but of course if we only have 8 or so we cant give out ten prizes ;)

PHAT
19-12-2004, 11:55 PM
unfortunately you are right. It will still go ahead as we have enough entries for a comp and we are still sticking to the prize money listed, but of course if we only have 8 or so we cant give out ten prizes ;)

8 prizes will do.

Try to compete with the Common Man tournament. It had 16 prizes for 16 entrants - and none of them was less then the entry fee.

Garvinator
19-12-2004, 11:57 PM
8 will do.
and we have eight cause if we have seven i will play ;)

ursogr8
20-12-2004, 07:07 AM
Sorry starter i stuffed your post up. i must have clicked on edit instead of quote. :(

My mistake. *makes mental not to make sure in future*

I will contact Gary wastell. But i dont know what good it will do considering it is so close to entry closing time.

Dear tcn

No need to apologise for 'stuffing up my post by clicking EDIT', because I don't think that can happen. :confused:

Can it? Anyone?
(The post tcn seems to be talking about was mine but seems to have disappeared. Is this possible one poster can delete anothers post? Of course mods and admins can...that is accepted).


starter

bobby1972
20-12-2004, 08:32 AM
whats the big deal with this support thing,i am going up there i got a place from one of my work mates i am not sure if i even play,i need the break 2 weeks in the mountain watch a bit of chess,but the numbers seem ok its strong

jay_vee
20-12-2004, 08:47 AM
Dear tcn

No need to apologise for 'stuffing up my post by clicking EDIT', because I don't think that can happen. :confused:

Can it? Anyone?
(The post tcn seems to be talking about was mine but seems to have disappeared. Is this possible one poster can delete anothers post? Of course mods and admins can...that is accepted).


starter

Then of course, tcn has recently become a mod, has he not?

arosar
20-12-2004, 08:48 AM
whats the big deal with this support thing . . . [?]

A very good questions signore! See, from where some of us sit, it looks very much like someone is trying to look for someone else (or other people to blame). you see what I'm saying?

AR

ursogr8
20-12-2004, 09:01 AM
Then of course, tcn has recently become a mod, has he not?

Of course...mystery solved.
Thanks jay vee...........tcn is able to alter/delete my posts because he has mod. functions.
N.p.


starter

bobby1972
20-12-2004, 10:50 AM
yeah too much blame in this place,look i got a WHOLE sky lodge just to myself from work for free and i dont think i am not even playing ,so why worry

Garvinator
20-12-2004, 10:56 AM
the issue raised by Trent Parker at the start of this thread was how come so few victorians playing in the MINOR tournament. There have been no questions in this thread regarding the open by Trent.

Bobby1972, you would be playing in the open, so please dont take any offence by ppl asking about support for the minor as you are not affected or being asked about your commitment level for the minor as you are rated way too highly.

Oepty
20-12-2004, 12:04 PM
* it is in victoria so i would expect there to be more people than NSW in both tourneys from victoria than NSW.

*My complaint is still valid because there are only 7 people in the minor

*to tell you the truth i couln't really give a fat rats **** about the Open at the moment because it has over 60 entrants. there are only 7 people in the minor

This is currently the tournament i'm worried about.

This is the tournament i am playing in.

This is the tournament that Needs help from the mexicans.

Although the tournament is in Victoria it is not in Melbourne so the locallity factor must be lessened quite considerably if not totally. There are more chess players in NSW so that should conteract the slight locallity factor

The minor needs more entries, not just from victoria. It would need 20-30 players as a minimum I suspect to be a decent tournament, especially if the rating range is fairly large. I hope the tournament gets a few more and you really enjoy the tournament.

jenni
20-12-2004, 12:21 PM
1- The junior and minor events clash.

Juniors are generally under1600, but most will play in the junior turnaments instead of the minor- afterall- wouldn't you prefer to be Australian U10,12,14,16,18 instead of Australian minor champ?


Cheers FG7

Huh? Minor is Jan 2nd to Jan 5th. Juniors is Jan 11th to Jan 21st. Am I missing something?

Garvinator
20-12-2004, 12:26 PM
Huh? Minor is Jan 2nd to Jan 5th. Juniors is Jan 11th to Jan 21st. Am I missing something?
i dont think so.

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 03:05 PM
I thought the point was pretty clear, but it seems it ain't so. So let me reiterate.


Huh? Minor is Jan 2nd to Jan 5th. Juniors is Jan 11th to Jan 21st. Am I missing something?

In the real world people normally make decisions and justify them according to relevent criteria. If I was a junior who wanted to play in both the minor and a junior event, I would have to convince my parents that, I would need to stay at Mt Buller from the 2nd of Jan until the 21st of Jan. Quite an expense, not one that is easily within financial reach of some chessplaying parents.

Now, most parents with any common sense normally negotiate these sort of demands with their children. So comments like "Little Johnny we can't afford for you to play in both, which one would you prefer?", come into consideration. No doubt many parents in their infinite wisdom easily negotiate such dilemmas.

Minor fields are usually full of junior competitors. It is my educated guess that the reason alot of juniors are not playing in the minor, is because they are committed to playing in the junior.

But don't take my scandalous words for facts. Investigate the problems yourself. Take a look at a field like the Doeberl minor tournament and break down the playing field. I am sure you will find a high number of junior players who play in minor events.

Moreover, It would be interesting to note how many juniors, who played in the minor at doeberl, are playing in the Mt Buller minor. My intuitive guess would be a lot less then the numbers playing in the Australian junior. I would suggest that the reasons are utilitarian in nature, based on considerations of economical realities and perceived statuses of the events being measured.

Only either a simpleton or a bourgeois would not have any consciousness of the idea that events can clash without being physically located in exact physical time. The first can be excused through naivety, although it doesn't give one confidence for the future. The latter is much more dangerous. These dreamers think that their worlds are reality, in as much as, they cannot understand why most people are unable to commit to 21 days of chess holidays. As if working class parents can afford for their children to spend 21 days straight in a Mt Buller Chalet.

Cheers FG7

jenni
20-12-2004, 03:24 PM
I think I am going to be pedantic ala Bill and Starter here and say "clash" means that they are on at the same time. Otherwise everything clashes, because there are always chess competitions runing one after the other.

The implication in the statement is that there was something different or novel about the timing of this minor and this juniors. However they are at pretty much the same sort of time that they always are. The minor is always held during the longer adult comp. The juniors is always held a few days after the conclusion of the adult comp. (apart from 1996). So how can it be used as a reason why at this particular minor number are down. Very few juniors ever play the Minor at Aus open/champs. They do play the minor at Doeberl, but the majority are local ACT juniors.

The problem has a lot more to do with there being no "local" population to draw from for the minor. Not too many people (Juniors or adults) are going to travel to a remote location for a side line tournament. On current lists there are around 12 juniors (some of them even under 1600), who are playing the Open and all but one are staying on for the juniors. However, why would you want to play in the Minor? If you are going to do that, you are going to go for the Open.

Incidentally all this using the cost of the Mercure as a reason why people are not going, is very ill informed. You can stay very near the venue (arguably at even more convenient locations, because you can avoid the hill), for around $30 per night, and have access to cooking facilities. Any adult who is using that is just too crippled to be able to find cheap alternate accommodation. If they are not going because it is remote, nothing to do, their friends aren't going or they became disenchanted because of the initial collapse fine. But price should not be part of the equation, unless they are a total incompetent

bobby1972
20-12-2004, 03:35 PM
why is all this talk about ,i got a WHOLE sky lodge to myself for nothing thank god for friends,and i am just looking for a rest i might not even play ,hey firegoat how is it going ,still a REd i see.

arosar
20-12-2004, 03:40 PM
I think I am going to be pedantic ala Bill and Starter here and say "clash" means that they are on at the same time. Otherwise everything clashes, because there are always chess competitions runing one after the other.

Actually fg7 used the word 'clash' to refer more to the 'form' rather than 'timing' of said events.

But, given our mate's fondness for stretching the chessic to the sociological, it is easy to see how you misread.

AR

arosar
20-12-2004, 03:42 PM
But price should not be part of the equation . . .

Easy for you to say...

AR

bobby1972
20-12-2004, 03:43 PM
price should not be a what

jenni
20-12-2004, 03:49 PM
Easy for you to say...

AR

So you find $25 to $30 a night for accommodation with access to a lounge room and kitchen, expensive? C'mon AR - you know that is cheap! How much are you paying per night in New Zealand?

arosar
20-12-2004, 03:51 PM
So you find $25 to $30 a night for accommodation with access to a lounge room and kitchen, expensive? C'mon AR - you know that is cheap! How much are you paying per night in New Zealand?

Well it's cheap.

But I'm not speaking for every other man and his dog.

AR

jenni
20-12-2004, 03:54 PM
Well it's cheap.

But I'm not speaking for every other man and his dog.

AR
It must be Christmas - you are getting mellow. :)

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 04:46 PM
I think I am going to be pedantic ala Bill and Starter here and say "clash" means that they are on at the same time. Otherwise everything clashes, because there are always chess competitions runing one after the other. Well at least thats nice to know...Jenni is pedantic..may i be so rude as to also call you condescending and arrogant....After all I used the terminology 'clash' not you! The last thing I need is a lesson from a self proclaimed expert on the English language telling me what context I meant to use the word in. I think I have clarified my position on the word 'clash' clearly. For you to even harp on about -"how I intended its meaning"- is sheer arrogance.


The implication in the statement is that there was something different or novel about the timing of this minor and this juniors. Actually there is no inference of the sort.
However they are at pretty much the same sort of time that they always are. The minor is always held during the longer adult comp. The juniors is always held a few days after the conclusion of the adult comp. (apart from 1996). [ /quote]..so what? Its traditionally been a bad decision-is that the implication? [quote] So how can it be used as a reason why at this particular minor number are down. Very few juniors ever play the Minor at Aus open/champs. I said it was probably a reason, I never said it was the ONLY reason...geez.
They do play the minor at Doeberl, but the majority are local ACT juniors. Your are probably on to something here, please expand your arguement.


The problem has a lot more to do with there being no "local" population to draw from for the minor. Not too many people (Juniors or adults) are going to travel to a remote location for a side line tournament. I see you have expanded your arguement... and yes I agree you are probably quite right.
On current lists there are around 12 juniors (some of them even under 1600), who are playing the Open and all but one are staying on for the juniors. However, why would you want to play in the Minor? If you are going to do that, you are going to go for the Open. No doubt, ambitious junior chessplayers ought to play in the strongest events possible ,and, as much chess as is pratically possible. Again I agree. but...we are talking about why they are not playing the minor (if that is true)....so it might be better to tell us how many juniors under 1600 are playing in the open.This would be a stronger arguement.

Incidentally all this using the cost of the Mercure as a reason why people are not going, is very ill informed. You can stay very near the venue (arguably at even more convenient locations, because you can avoid the hill), for around $30 per night, and have access to cooking facilities. Any adult who is using that is just too crippled to be able to find cheap alternate accommodation. If they are not going because it is remote, nothing to do, their friends aren't going or they became disenchanted because of the initial collapse fine. But price should not be part of the equation, unless they are a total incompetent well its difficult to even understand what your point is here. Cost is relative isn't it. Im certainly not saying that the MT Buller accomodation is expensive for everybody. I am saying that some people (especially junior players), won't be able to afford it. That should be obvious to anybody. But I must remember the complete unsoundness of your lazy intellectualism...next time somebody questions me with "why did I buy the no name soft drink instead of a bottle of coke" I will quickly retort- because I am incompetent!

Look I am interested in engaging in debate about legitimate points. I agree with some of your observations. But, if you want to go off half-cocked, without actually thinking through what you are saying, not reflecting, not admitting error, then the debate becomes pointless.

The above being the case, may I suggest that the content of your last paragraph of claims is absolute nonsense and only seeks to reconfirm your own non-sensical bourgeois rhetoric.


Cheers FG7

jenni
20-12-2004, 04:58 PM
Nothing you ever write revises my opinion of you formed in 2000.

ursogr8
20-12-2004, 05:10 PM
I think I am going to be pedantic ala Bill and Starter .........

pedant, n., one who makes an excessive or tedious show of learning or learned precision; one who posseses mere book-learning without practical wisdom.


starter

jenni
20-12-2004, 05:17 PM
pedant, n., one who makes an excessive or tedious show of learning or learned precision; one who posseses mere book-learning without practical wisdom.


starter

Didn't mean to insult you. :) I view it more as being very precise in use of language. (Which Mr "Settle arguements with insults and my fists" certainly wasn't).

ursogr8
20-12-2004, 05:27 PM
Didn't mean to insult you. :) I view it more as being very precise in use of language. (Which Mr "Settle arguements with insults and my fists" certainly wasn't).

jenni
Actually, I didn't take it as an insult. Just good feedback.
I meant my post to be humourous/ironic. As in "How would a pedant respond to the allegation....why of course he would he would use a book definition". But, if I have to explain my jokes then they are a MISS. :sad:

At least I don't have to resort to the tactics of that Basilio Cox who consults overseas texts. ;)


starter

jenni
20-12-2004, 05:32 PM
jenni
Actually, I didn't take it as an insult. Just good feedback.
I meant my post to be humourous/ironic. As in "How would a pedant respond to the allegation....why of course he would he would use a book definition". But, if I have to explain my jokes then they are a MISS. :sad:

At least I don't have to resort to the tactics of that Basilio Cox who consults overseas texts. ;)


starter

Oh good - now that I know you like to be a pedant, then all is well!

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 06:13 PM
I view it more as being very precise in use of language. (Which Mr "Settle arguements with insults and my fists" certainly wasn't).

Such irony in being pedantic :lol:

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 06:15 PM
why is all this talk about ,i got a WHOLE sky lodge to myself for nothing thank god for friends,and i am just looking for a rest i might not even play ,hey firegoat how is it going ,still a REd i see.

Look man, first we took your farm in the old country, now we want your ski lodge! ;)

Alan Shore
20-12-2004, 07:00 PM
Nothing you ever write revises my opinion of you formed in 2000.

It seems I'll agree with you after reading FG's condescending spiel..

Although I'd formed an opinion even before 2000.. when he was known as Galina.

Also, what is with his obsession with the word bourgeois? It doesn't make him sound intelligent, only snobby.

jenni
20-12-2004, 07:12 PM
It seems I'll agree with you after reading FG's condescending spiel..

Although I'd formed an opinion even before 2000.. when he was known as Galina.

Also, what is with his obsession with the word bourgeois? It doesn't make him sound intelligent, only snobby.

:lol:

Rincewind
20-12-2004, 07:42 PM
when he was known as Galina.

It should have been Gallina to maintain the farmyard theme. :)


Also, what is with his obsession with the word bourgeois? It doesn't make him sound intelligent, only snobby.

Don't mention the b-word. I had a discussion with FG on this and I've formed the opinion that this idée fixe has been brought about by self-loathing of his own bourgeois upbringing. Of course, I could be wrong but it does seem to be a knee-jerk defense mechanism which he employs frequently and with very little provocation.

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 09:30 PM
What can I say? All I did was offer an opinion. Jenni then proceeds to attack that opinion without actually engaging in any real debate about the issues concerning the opinion. A clear example of "Im right your wrong". An attitude that is not healthy for discussing an issue. Instead it stifles debate.

Place the comments in context then consider whether the debate addresses the issues or simply becomes a personal attack.

Enter tweedle dum and tweedle dee, who conclude that I must be a jerk because they have some personal issue with me. Don't ask me how I have offended Bruce in a previous life because I have no idea. As for Barry, well its difficult to take such a weak attempt at psychology seriously.

As for the word boo-gwa-zee- what does it matter what words I use. Do it tell you how to speak, or what clothes you should wear? If anyone is being a snob Bruce it is probably you. Worry about your own conduct- its not like I am using rude language is it. Your relationships to words are going to be different to mine.

But really these discussions are just plain annoying. It seems that what really happens here is that hardly anybody can seperate rational arguement from emotive feeling. As soon as I called you boo-gwa-zee your attitude towards me flipped barry. You are yet to reconcile that emotive response rationally.

Arosar understood where I was coming from. You all would be wiser if you looked at how he handled the debate. He understands intuitivly that all human experience is subjective. He doesn't ram his morals down other peoples throats in absolutist tones. Instead he picks off points for discussion.

I have no real personal issues with any of you. All I can say is your worlds are not the same as mine and vica versa.

Cheers FG7

Rincewind
20-12-2004, 09:45 PM
But really these discussions are just plain annoying. It seems that what really happens here is that hardly anybody can seperate rational arguement from emotive feeling. As soon as I called you boo-gwa-zee your attitude towards me flipped barry. You are yet to reconcile that emotive response rationally.

FG, I try to take as I find, pretty much like everyone else. In general you make your choices in how you choose to interact with those around you and the reaction you receive is in kind. Personally, I think you do a good job at organising and promoting chess at the MCC but many of the arguments you have had here have won you few friends. That's ok, I don't expect everyone to be likeable. Just don't burn all your bridges and then wonder how you're going to get back over the river.

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 09:53 PM
Barry listen to what I am saying "It is not personal" -Don't tell me how I should behave without reflecting. When you say...you should behave like this because otherwise you risk X... I say... grow up. Agree to disagree on arguements, not moral (subjective) worth of a persons character. Anything else is simply patronising or in other cases demonising.

Cheers FG7

jenni
20-12-2004, 09:54 PM
Hmm - attack? All I did was ask how dates that were widely separated could be a clash. It was genuine bewilderment and an attempt to ask for clarification.

I then copped a diatribe and got called a simpleton. Methinks someone is over sensitive and looking for insults in every direction. :eh:

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 10:03 PM
I never directly stated that you were a simpleton

jenni
20-12-2004, 10:05 PM
I never directly stated that you were a simpleton

Well I'll give you the credit of a bit of subtlety then. I think anyone with an IQ of more then 70 would have made the connection....

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 10:10 PM
Thus continues the absolutist nonsense

jenni
20-12-2004, 10:11 PM
Sigh :wall:

Rincewind
20-12-2004, 10:12 PM
Barry listen to what I am saying "It is not personal" -Don't tell me how I should behave without reflecting. When you say...you should behave like this because otherwise you risk X... I say... grow up. Agree to disagree on arguements, not moral (subjective) worth of a persons character. Anything else is simply patronising or in other cases demonising.

I never said how you should behave. I just stated Newton's second law. My only advice is don't waste my time with whinging about the consequences of your actions.

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 10:18 PM
another amateur psychology lesson 101. Is this one condescending or demonising?

Mischa
20-12-2004, 10:19 PM
My kid is qualified to play in the junior and the minor...but as Jenni said..there is no way we, as a family can afford to do both. Much as we would like to have a choice...to do both...we can only afford one.. as he is only 10 years old, the choice is clear

Rincewind
20-12-2004, 10:20 PM
another amateur psychology lesson 101. Is this one condescending or demonising?

Neither, just :tired:

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 10:21 PM
Jenny said :confused:

jenni
20-12-2004, 10:23 PM
Jenni said :confused:

I have my support base..... :)

firegoat7
20-12-2004, 10:30 PM
My kid is qualified to play in the junior and the minor...but as Jenni said..there is no way we, as a family can afford to do both. Much as we would like to have a choice...to do both...we can only afford one.. as he is only 10 years old, the choice is clear Where exactly did jenni say this?

Bill Gletsos
20-12-2004, 10:37 PM
Where exactly did jenni say this?
I dont think jenni did say that.
Jenni focused more on juniors potentially playing in the Open and/or the Junior, not the Minor and the Junior.

Mischa
20-12-2004, 10:37 PM
Sorry firegoat... the credit should have gone to you.

Ian Rout
21-12-2004, 08:08 AM
For the record here's the breakdown from the Minor held in conjunction with the 2000/01 Australian Open in Canberra (unfortunately I don't know a lot of the names so the adult/junior breakdown is incomplete).




State adult jnr ? Total
ACT 9 6 1 16
NSW 6 3 9 18
Qld 3 0 7 10
SA 0 0 1 1
Vic 1 0 2 3

Total 19 9 20 48


The circumstances were similar in that the Minor and Juniors were held in the same place (not the same building), though the Minor overlapped the first half of the Open not the second.

If someone wants to have a stab at improving the figures the table is at

http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/results/Championships/2001AustOpenMinor.htm

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 08:30 AM
the question is and that is the only question how many bars are up there he he.

jenni
21-12-2004, 10:32 AM
the question is and that is the only question how many bars are up there he he.

enough to make you happy :)

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 10:49 AM
why so much politics about the open,its just another turny a chance for a break ,you would think its the world champs who cares who plays as long as it happens

jenni
21-12-2004, 10:53 AM
For the record here's the breakdown from the Minor held in conjunction with the 2000/01 Australian Open in Canberra (unfortunately I don't know a lot of the names so the adult/junior breakdown is incomplete).




State adult jnr ? Total
ACT 9 6 1 16
NSW 6 3 9 18
Qld 3 0 7 10
SA 0 0 1 1
Vic 1 0 2 3

Total 19 9 20 48


The circumstances were similar in that the Minor and Juniors were held in the same place (not the same building), though the Minor overlapped the first half of the Open not the second.

If someone wants to have a stab at improving the figures the table is at

http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/results/Championships/2001AustOpenMinor.htm

I think it is actually 10 juniors. There are always a few who play the minor, but never a large %. So if looking for reasons for the bad turnout in 2005, it is hard to use a "clash" with the juniors (a "clash" which always exists.), as the reason.

I think it is simply the same reason why the open itself is struggling - remote location and no local population to draw from.

Garvinator
21-12-2004, 11:14 AM
I think it is simply the same reason why the open itself is struggling - remote location and no local population to draw from.
also an unwillingness for ppl to try something new, short time for the current organisers to get information out after it was organised as well. That is fine, those that do come will have a great time and hopefully will spread the good word if there is a next time, which I hope there is.

arosar
21-12-2004, 11:24 AM
also an unwillingness for ppl to try something new

Mate, it's all about "location! location!" We're all willing to try something new, we just need a good reason to.

Five years ago we went all the way up to the Sunshine Coast and we loved it! Last year we had the same event in Penrith, in my backyard, and I hated it!

AR

Trent Parker
21-12-2004, 12:22 PM
*checks to make sure that Quote is pressed not edit*


those that do come will have a great time....

Without a doubt!!!!!! :D :owned:

Trent Parker
21-12-2004, 12:32 PM
Although the tournament is in Victoria it is not in Melbourne so the locallity factor must be lessened quite considerably if not totally.

But Freddy. There is only one from Victoria let alone melbourne


There are more chess players in NSW so that should conteract the slight locallity factor

Which is much further than Sydney..... and there is more sydney people than melbourne people entered in the minor.


The minor needs more entries, not just from victoria.

Agreed


I hope the tournament gets a few more and you really enjoy the tournament.

Hope there is a few more people as well. And i will most definitely enjoy myself up at mt buller!!!

arosar
21-12-2004, 12:35 PM
But Freddy. There is only one from Victoria let alone melbourne

Trent! Stop saying stupid things. It's your move man. Go to the Corro Chess section.

AR

Trent Parker
21-12-2004, 12:38 PM
So you find $25 to $30 a night for accommodation with access to a lounge room and kitchen, expensive?

Well....... If you plan ahead and get an appartment from avalanche for 5 nights (1st - 5th) it costs $450 and holds 8 people. So the cost could be as little as $11.25 per night.

Recherché
21-12-2004, 12:43 PM
Wheres the support from the mexicans??????

You'd be better off asking "where's the support FOR the mexicans" in my opinion.

I wrote a detailed post (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=31294) over two months ago (soon after I got the details for the tournament) explaining that I thought the Minor was in great danger of being extremely short on entrants.

The simple fact is that for someone living in Melbourne, the tournament is a very inaccessible and expensive proposition. There just aren't many under 1600 players who have the ability and desire to burn $300+ on a chess tournament.

You can make arguments for the Open and the Juniors to be held at Buller, especially since many players have to travel from interstate, but it's just not a suitable venue for the Minor.

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 12:46 PM
so is there going to be a minor turnry,what a joke

Garvinator
21-12-2004, 12:48 PM
so is there going to be a minor turnry,what a joke
yes there will be. We have enough entries for the tournament to be held and ppl are already booked and paid for, so it WILL be going ahead. Yes we wont have 50 entries, but so be it. I am sure that those who will be playing will have a great time.

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 12:56 PM
Nothing Like A Good Time

Recherché
21-12-2004, 12:57 PM
But Freddy. There is only one from Victoria let alone melbourne

There aren't that many active Victorian chess players outside Melbourne, and there are even fewer, perhaps NONE that are close enough to Mt Buller to avoid large travel/accommodation costs.

Trent Parker
21-12-2004, 12:58 PM
Nothing Like A Good Time

Need more entrants for a great time. but will have a good time. Great time still possible

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 01:03 PM
have the next one in say hamilton island then it will be a great time

Recherché
21-12-2004, 01:09 PM
yes there will be. We have enough entries for the tournament to be held and ppl are already booked and paid for, so it WILL be going ahead. Yes we wont have 50 entries, but so be it. I am sure that those who will be playing will have a great time.

I really hope you'll be taking this experience into account when planning future events. You just can't combine a tournament like the Minor with National events unless they're being held in or near a city. Hell, even Ballarat might have worked out OK.

The minor is a fantastic tournament. It has everything going for it except the disastrous location. Since I started playing chess back in June 2003 there hasn't been any tournament so ideally suited to me as the Minor tournament. Honestly I'm really, really disappointed it has been put so far out of reach.

Mt Buller is probably a great venue for the National stuff. At the very least, it seems like a good venue. But it's awful for the Minor. Just awful.

Trent Parker
21-12-2004, 01:11 PM
have the next one in say hamilton island then it will be a great time

Yeah right. and how much will that cost????

bobby1972
21-12-2004, 01:50 PM
"Just awful"YES YES YES hey even the open is looking like a mickey mouse turny he he

Oepty
21-12-2004, 03:03 PM
Trent I don't think I have much more to say than to hope there has been more than a few last minute entries.

Ian. For your stats Tristom Cooke would have been an adult.

Garvinator
21-12-2004, 03:31 PM
I really hope you'll be taking this experience into account when planning future events. You just can't combine a tournament like the Minor with National events unless they're being held in or near a city. Hell, even Ballarat might have worked out OK.

The minor is a fantastic tournament. It has everything going for it except the disastrous location. Since I started playing chess back in June 2003 there hasn't been any tournament so ideally suited to me as the Minor tournament. Honestly I'm really, really disappointed it has been put so far out of reach.

Mt Buller is probably a great venue for the National stuff. At the very least, it seems like a good venue. But it's awful for the Minor. Just awful.
If we are at mt buller for 2007 with the open/junior, this experience will be valuable. Either we will try a minor again if I am an organiser and have it right before the juniors, or not have one at all and try another idea.

If the deal gets up, the 2006 championships/junior will be held in at a mercure resort/hotel in a capital city. Currently CAQ has hosting rights :D

ursogr8
25-12-2004, 06:45 AM
But Freddy. There is only one from Victoria let alone melbourne



tcn

All is revealed.
There are 32 Mexicans in the OPEN, in a field of 70+.
Well above our population % of 25%.

Enjoy your time at Mt B.

regards
starter

WhiteElephant
25-12-2004, 10:14 AM
If we are at mt buller for 2007 with the open/junior,

You are kidding, right?

Trent Parker
25-12-2004, 09:40 PM
Hey Sweeney...... If you are enabled in future.......

Here is proof that some people can post drunk and not make spelling errors or carry on ridiculously......

What was this post going to be about?? Oh yeah thats right.....

Hey ggray one thing i notice about the website is that there appears to be no mention of the Minor on the front page......

Perhaps this has something to do with the low numbers..... perhaps...... maybe.......perhaps......


BTW starter..... I dont give a fat rats .... about the open.. as i have said in previous posts.... i only care at the moment about the minor.....

Trent Parker
25-12-2004, 09:42 PM
You are kidding, right?

No he's not joking. Perhaps in future years it will be organised much more in advance than this year.... and perhaps there might be more GMS and IMS than this year.

I think half the problem overall was the MT Buller is on....off .... on ..... off fiasco. Next time this will not occur. =better tournament............No???????

Paul S
25-12-2004, 11:36 PM
I think half the problem overall was the MT Buller is on....off .... on ..... off fiasco. Next time this will not occur. =better tournament............No???????

I think that is just one of several problems that affected Mt Buller. I would say that the other problems (and things to address for any future Mt Bullers) are:

1) The main organisers being in different states (George in SA, Garvin in Qld and Kerry in NSW) and the site (Mt Buller) being remote from where any of the organisers live.

2) George Howard being already overburdened with chess workload in his role as ACF President. IMHO an ACF President should not be running the Australian Open - the role of ACF President already has enough demands as it is. I admire George for taking on the role of Main Mt Buller Organiser, despite having more than enough to do as ACF President.

3) Lack of general information about Mt Buller in official booklets (and half the 16 pages taken up with ads). Nothing on activities to do while at Mt Buller (eg bushwalks, activities for kids etc). By contrast the booklet for the NZ Open (which I passed on to one of the Mt Buller organisers with a suggestion that the Mt Buller events could do with a similar content booklet) had plenty of info.

4) Unlike say the NZ Open, the Mt Buller organisers made no attempt to offer to match up people planning to travel to the event by themselves willing to share accommodation with other like-minded individuals (and so reduce their accommodation costs). I reckon this has resulted in quite a few SINKS not going, and being SINKS (ie higher disposable income) these people would most likely have stayed at the Mercure!

5) The disgraceful way that most of Libby's and Jenni's legitimate questions and complaints have been dealt with by the organisers. I think its great the way that these two ladies have put the interests of the Juniors first and are actively organising activities at Mt Buller for them. I know that if I was in their position and was fobbed off in the manner these two ladies have been I would have long ago decided to spend my summer somewhere other than Mt Buller!

Anyway, I hope the Mt Buller events go well and that people have a good time there.

ursogr8
26-12-2004, 06:46 AM
BTW starter..... I dont give a fat rats .... about the open.. as i have said in previous posts.... i only care at the moment about the minor.....

Good morning tcn

I hope the christmas spirit has done its work and cheered you up.

Your thread title asked for information on "Where is the support from the Mexicans". I was just trying to help yesterday when I reported that the Victorians have well supported the events by providing nearly 40% more than their population % would have suggested. They just happen to be playing in the OPEN, whereas you have entered the MINOR. Personally. I think you made the better choice. Good luck.

starter

Trent Parker
26-12-2004, 04:17 PM
Starter..... Have a look at the first post that i made in this thread. Does it say for the main event or the minor?

ursogr8
26-12-2004, 08:20 PM
Starter..... Have a look at the first post that i made in this thread. Does it say for the main event or the minor?

Listen tcn...don't shoot the messenger, mate.
You asked where were the Mexicans you expected would play in the MINOR. I simply gave you the metrics that they played in the OPEN instead.
That is the answer to the question you asked.

Now go and enjoy yourself.

regards
starter

Trent Parker
27-12-2004, 12:02 AM
Whatever starter... :hand: :hand: :hand: :hand: