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Kevin Bonham
05-09-2016, 08:19 PM
I think this might have been covered before but can't find it.

David Smerdon is about to play reigning World Champion Magnus Carlsen. How many previous cases are there of an Australian playing a reigning World Champion (FIDE knockout champions don't count) in a classic (not blitz/rapid) rated game?

Walter Browne vs Spassky 1970 Olympiad is at least one prior but I assume there are others. Did Ian Rogers play Kasparov in a classic-rated game while he held the title?

jammo
05-09-2016, 09:24 PM
Browne and Spassky played in 1969 also.
Watson v Capablanca 1922.

Agent Smith
05-09-2016, 09:57 PM
Prepping for @MagnusCarlsen with Eminem: "You've only got 1 shot/Do not miss your chance". Then noticed song's title is Lose Yourself.

Omg... m&m's music is a bit of a relaxation for me too sometimes, but as far as prep for beating Carlsen goes... it doesn't freaking inspire confidence, laugh. Good luck man.

Patrick Byrom
05-09-2016, 10:34 PM
... Walter Browne vs Spassky 1970 Olympiad is at least one prior but I assume there are others. Did Ian Rogers play Kasparov in a classic-rated game while he held the title?
Their only game seems to be in 2001, just after Kasparov lost the title. But Rogers did play Karpov in 1983, when Karpov was still champion (and drew!)

I'm sure CJS Purdy would have played a few Aussies while he was World (Correspondence) Chess Champion :)

pballard
06-09-2016, 04:00 PM
I'm not a fan of the FIDE knockout championships, but Johansen played FIDE WC Rustam Kasimdzhanov at the 2004 Olympiad.

If we don't count that, there are two Rogers-Karpov games in 1983. I believe they were both during the BBC's "The Master Game". EDIT: link here http://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/27/nyregion/chess-tony-miles-defeats-karpov-andwinsbathtournament.html . It was a double round robin, and time limit was 40/2 hours then rest of the game in an hour.

Agent Smith
06-09-2016, 07:32 PM
Ian drew the second game, but what a game the first was. :)
[Event "Bath TV-A"]
[Site "Bath"]
[Date "1983.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Karpov, Anatoly"]
[Black "Rogers, Ian"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2710"]
[BlackElo "2450"]
[ECO "B01"]
[EventDate "1983.11.??"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[EventRounds "6"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[EventCategory "13"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2007.05.03"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bg4 ( 5. ... Ne4 6. Bd3 Nxc3 7. bxc3 Qxc3+ 8. Bd2 Qa3 ) 6. h3 Bh5 7. g4 Bg6 8. Ne5 e6 9. h4 Bb4 10. Rh3 c6 11. Bd2 Qb6 12. h5 Be4 13. Re3 Bxc3 14. Bxc3 Bd5 15. g5 Ne4 16. Qg4 Nd6 17. O-O-O Nd7 18. Be1 Nxe5 19. dxe5 Nf5 20. Rh3 O-O-O 21. c4 Qc5 22. b4 Bf3 23. Rxd8+ ( 23. Qxf3 Qxe5 24. Bc3 Rxd1+ 25. Qxd1 Qf4+ ) 23. ... Rxd8 24. Qxf3 Qxe5 25. Bc3 Qd6 26. Bd3 Nd4 27. Qxf7 Nf5 28. Bxf5 Qf4+ 29. Re3 Qxf5 ( 29. ... Qxf5 30. Qxf5 exf5 31. Bxg7 Rd7 ) 1-0
Millbase has a crosstable too.

Bath tv I, 1983
Average Rating: 2551 (Category 13)
Rtng Age Nat Score (Tie) Ka Br Ch Ro Perf Chg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1: Karpov, A 2710 RUS 5.0 / 6 11.75 XX 1= 11 1= 2771 +3 (+4 -0 =2)
2: Browne, Walter S 2560 34 USA 3.0 / 6 7.75 0= XX =1 == 2548 -1 (+1 -1 =4)
3: Chandler, Murray G 2485 23 NZL 2.5 / 6 4.50 00 =0 XX 11 2516 +3 (+2 -3 =1)
4: Rogers, Ian 2450 23 AUS 1.5 / 6 5.50 0= == 00 XX 2392 -4 (+0 -3 =3)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 games: +5 -2 =5

MichaelBaron
15-09-2016, 09:59 AM
How about playing future/past world champions? I think Rogers played many and so did Browne (even though he was no longer listed as Australia after early 1970's) Guy West played Kasparov and so did Hjorth when Kaspi was a kid.
Re crosstable above - it gives a great idea about value of ratings at the the time. Imagine 2 Masters rated 2485 and 2450 playing competitively in such round robin events today. I think this would be unlikely, so at the time - 2450 was same value as 2550 or so (at least) now.

Kevin Bonham
20-09-2016, 11:15 PM
Posts moved

Posts about changes in the strength of players through time, and whether players have got stronger, or ratings inflated, or both, have been moved here:

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?16586-Strength-of-players-through-time-(sf-Aus-vs-World-Champs)

Daly
20-03-2018, 12:47 PM
London, England, 31 July - 19 August 1922

This goes back to 1922 but the Australian player Charles Watson got to play both Alekhine and Capa in this tournament.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 Pts
1 Capablanca * 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 13
2 Alekhine * 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
3 Vidmar 0 * 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
4 Rubinstein 0 1 * 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 10
5 Bogoljubov 0 0 * 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 9
6 Reti 0 * 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 8
7 Tartakover 0 0 0 * 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 8
8 Maroczy 0 0 * 1 1 0 1 1 8
9 Yates 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 * 1 1 1 1 1 1 8
10 Atkins 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 * 0 1 0 1 6
11 Euwe 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 * 0 1 0 1 1 5
12 Znosko-Borovsky 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 * 1 1 0 5
13 Wahltuch 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 * 1 1 5
14 Morrison 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 * 0 1 4
15 Watson 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 * 1 4
16 Marotti 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 * 1

Ian Rout
20-03-2018, 01:06 PM
London, England, 31 July - 19 August 1922

This goes back to 1922 but the Australian player Charles Watson got to play both Alekhine and Capa in this tournament.Also Euwe.