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Kevin Bonham
12-12-2015, 05:31 PM
FIDE are asking member federations to tell FIDE when they joined FIDE. One would really think FIDE should know!

This Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_Member_Federations says 1926. However it's unsourced and it's only Wikipedia. Does anyone here know for sure?

Denis previously posted that the ACF was formed in 1922.

Denis_Jessop
13-12-2015, 08:02 PM
FIDE are asking member federations to tell FIDE when they joined FIDE. One would really think FIDE should know!

This Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_Member_Federations says 1926. However it's unsourced and it's only Wikipedia. Does anyone here know for sure?

Denis previously posted that the ACF was formed in 1922.

I got the 1922 date from an article by Cecil Purdy in "Chess World". FIDE was formed in 1924. I tried to find Cecil's article again today but without success so far. I'll have another go tomorrow.

DJ

Kevin Bonham
13-12-2015, 08:07 PM
I got the 1922 date from an article by Cecil Purdy in "Chess World". FIDE was formed in 1924. I tried to find Cecil's article again today but without success so far. I'll have another go tomorrow.

DJ

Bill sent me a copy of a Purdy article from Chess World October 1964 entitled "History of the Australian Title", which gives Championships from 1922 onwards as belonging to the "A.C.F. Era". That particular article doesn't say anything about FIDE.

MichaelBaron
13-12-2015, 11:42 PM
The Russian Chess Dictionary has Australia listed as a FIDE member from 1939.

ER
14-12-2015, 07:44 AM
The Russian Chess Dictionary has Australia listed as a FIDE member from 1939.

wow, the Russian Chess Dictionary must be a remarkable publication. Has it been translated into English?

MichaelBaron
14-12-2015, 09:22 AM
wow, the Russian Chess Dictionary must be a remarkable publication. Has it been translated into English?

I am not sure, may be not as a lot of its content is related to Russian players that are little known in the West and history of chess in Russia as well as Russian tournaments. I believe there is a similar kind of book published in UK some years ago by Ken Wild titled something like (not sure what the exact title is) Chess Encyclopedia.

Kevin Bonham
14-12-2015, 10:29 AM
The Russian Chess Dictionary has Australia listed as a FIDE member from 1939.

Thanks very much for this. I have still not been able to find any evidence for the 1926 date claimed on Wikipedia.

Rincewind
14-12-2015, 02:07 PM
If you look a The Age, Thursday 14th July 1938, page 6. There is an item titled "Chess Team For Argentina" which reads...


SYDNEY, Wednesday. — The Australian Chess Federation delegates met tonight and decided to recommend the acceptance of the Argentine Chess Federation's offer of £400 stirling towards expenses of a chess team's visit to the Buenos Aires Chess Olympiad next April. Immediate steps will he taken to affiliate with the Federal International des Echecs. Each State will be requested to raise its quota of the fund necessary to send the team away for at least three months, and to nominate players for selection.

So I suspect that the answer is either 1938-1939 in response to trying to get a team together for the Chess Olympiad in held in Buenos Aires in 1939.

Bill Gletsos
14-12-2015, 02:19 PM
So I suspect that the answer is either 1938-1939 in response to trying to get a team together for the Chess Olympiad in held in Buenos Aires in 1939.I would assume their membership was formally accepted at the General Assembly (or whatever it was called back then) held at the Olympiad in 1939.

Rincewind
14-12-2015, 03:04 PM
I would assume their membership was formally accepted at the General Assembly (or whatever it was called back then) held at the Olympiad in 1939.

You could be right and I believe the Scottish Chess Federation had some trouble getting acceptance in then 1920s but by the late 30s perhaps things were more routine. I note also there is an item in The Australasian, 3 September, 1938, page 49, which reads in part...


ARGENTINE CHESS CONGRESS. 1939. — Nothing definite has been decided whether Australia will send a team to the Argentine World Chess Congress, 1939. where approximately 30 nations will be represented, but there is every likelihood that Australia will be there, and for this reason—the Australian Chess Federation has just affiliated with the F.I.D.E (International Chess Federation)

If the author of this is correct then the answer is c. September, 1938.

Rincewind
14-12-2015, 03:31 PM
Sadly the Australian team never got to Argentina. The Olympiad seemed to be very poorly organised. Originally scheduled for April the date slipped a couple of times and in the end there was no boat available to take the Australian team to South America at the time actually held. Of course there were other issues with the tournament with hostilities in Europe commencing while it was underway causing the British team to withdraw after the preliminary rounds and several players not returning home, including Najdorf and Frydman from Poland and I think the entire German team.

MichaelBaron
14-12-2015, 07:05 PM
Sadly the Australian team never got to Argentina. The Olympiad seemed to be very poorly organised. Originally scheduled for April the date slipped a couple of times and in the end there was no boat available to take the Australian team to South America at the time actually held. Of course there were other issues with the tournament with hostilities in Europe commencing while it was underway causing the British team to withdraw after the preliminary rounds and several players not returning home, including Najdorf and Frydman from Poland and I think the entire German team.

However, that Olympiad saved lives of many chess players (particularly Jewish ones) who stayed over in Argentina rather than returned home to perish forever. As well as Najdorf and Frydman, many other names come to mind: Pelikan, Eliskazes, Pilnik, Feigin, Lutskis etc. Also, Shtalberg remained in Argentina till the end of the WW2.

Denis_Jessop
15-12-2015, 12:29 AM
Bill sent me a copy of a Purdy article from Chess World October 1964 entitled "History of the Australian Title", which gives Championships from 1922 onwards as belonging to the "A.C.F. Era". That particular article doesn't say anything about FIDE.

That may be the article I had in mind though I think there is another one about the ACF. Michael Baron's 1939 date makes sense especially if Fide was running the Olympiad (Hamilton Russell Cup) by then. Australia had planned to send a team to the 1939 Olympiad but transport arrangements were fouled up (partly because of the threat of WW2 and the team didn't go. If FIDE was running the event, we would have had to be a member.

DJ

PS I was too slack in reading the thread to see that Rincewind has covered much of this.

Agent Smith
15-12-2015, 05:43 AM
Is it known what became of the £400 stirling ?

Kevin Bonham
15-12-2015, 08:11 AM
Excellent work Rincewind. I can add that there was a FIDE Congress in Paris in 1938 (see for example http://www.fidecongress2011.pl/downloads/fidecongresses1924-2011.pdf) but I have not yet been able to find the dates of it and determine whether Australia could have been affiliated at the 1938 Congress.

Rincewind
15-12-2015, 08:45 AM
Is it known what became of the £400 stirling ?

I suspect it was not forwarded in advance and since a team never arrived from Australia it never 'became' at all. Later reports were saying £500 (perhaps as compensation for the dates moving) and there was also talk of free accommodation for the teams etc.

MichaelBaron
15-12-2015, 09:58 AM
Is it known what became of the £400 stirling ?

At the time it was a lot of money! I am not sure how much the potential travel expenses were (I assume sailing to South America at the time was an expensive and long trip) but in any case collecting that kind of bonus for participation (given that ''Team Australia'' was not a star-packed team and did not include likes of Alekhine, Capablanca, Keres etc.) was amazing. I wonder if that figure is correct?
In today's money (I got curious and googled) - it was something like 76,000 pounds. Using answers.com http://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_is_one_pound_sterling_from_1930's_worth_i n_today's_terms is not an ideal way of establishing the value so I may be wrong in my assumption but even if the money they recieved was 70-80% of the value I am suggesting above - that means it was the greatest ever finanical insentive offered to any Australian player/team in the history of the Australian chess!

Zwischenzug
15-12-2015, 10:50 AM
At the time it was a lot of money! I am not sure how much the potential travel expenses were (I assume sailing to South America at the time was an expensive and long trip) but in any case collecting that kind of bonus for participation (given that ''Team Australia'' was not a star-packed team and did not include likes of Alekhine, Capablanca, Keres etc.) was amazing. I wonder if that figure is correct?

In today's money (I got curious and googled) - it was something like 76,000 pounds. Using answers.com http://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_is_one_pound_sterling_from_1930's_worth_i n_today's_terms is not an ideal way of establishing the value so I may be wrong in my assumption but even if the money they recieved was 70-80% of the value I am suggesting above - that means it was the greatest ever finanical insentive offered to any Australian player/team in the history of the Australian chess!

Using this (http://www.thomblake.com.au/secondary/hisdata/calculate.php), £400 would be worth $33024 today.

MichaelBaron
15-12-2015, 07:09 PM
Using this (http://www.thomblake.com.au/secondary/hisdata/calculate.php), £400 would be worth $33024 today.

In AUD?

Zwischenzug
15-12-2015, 08:18 PM
Yes. That website converts past Australian currency to current value. Back then, we used pounds as well (though the Aussie pound was distinct from the British pound). We switched to dollars in 1966.

machomortensen
15-12-2015, 08:36 PM
A bit off topc:

@ Michael Baron

I don't think that Gideon Ståhlberg was jewish. He just liked the South American lifestyle and climate.

MichaelBaron
15-12-2015, 09:41 PM
A bit off topc:

@ Michael Baron

I don't think that Gideon Ståhlberg was jewish. He just liked the South American lifestyle and climate.
Yep he was not Jewish...but I do not think it was just the climate...note that he returned after WWII got over

machomortensen
25-12-2015, 07:19 AM
He first returned to Sweden in 1948 or 1949. Untill then he "just" sent a lot chesscolumns to the swedish chessmagazines, gave simuls, played small tournaments.

Denis_Jessop
25-12-2015, 09:02 PM
He first returned to Sweden in 1948 or 1949. Untill then he "just" sent a lot chesscolumns to the swedish chessmagazines, gave simuls, played small tournaments.

He played in the 1948 Interzonal at Saltsjöbaden where he finished equal 6th with Bondaresky, Flohr and Najdorf on 10.5 (20 competitors). That earned him the right to play in the 1949 Candidates Tournament at Buenos Aires to decide who would play Botvinnik for the world title in 1950.

DJ

MichaelBaron
25-12-2015, 10:59 PM
He played in the 1948 Interzonal at Saltsjöbaden where he finished equal 6th with Bondaresky, Flohr and Najdorf on 10.5 (20 competitors). That earned him the right to play in the 1949 Candidates Tournament at Buenos Aires to decide who would play Botvinnik for the world title in 1950.

DJ

Did not know it was planned for Buenos Aires. The Candidates tournament has taken place in Budapesht in 1950.

Denis_Jessop
26-12-2015, 09:48 PM
Did not know it was planned for Buenos Aires. The Candidates tournament has taken place in Budapesht in 1950.

I took my information from Lajos Steiner's book "Kings of the Chessboard" - his account of his 1948 trip to play in the interzonal. The venue for the Candidates must have been changed as the 1950 Candidates was indeed held in Budapest.

DJ

triplecheck
02-01-2016, 05:04 PM
I am not sure, may be not as a lot of its content is related to Russian players that are little known in the West and history of chess in Russia as well as Russian tournaments. I believe there is a similar kind of book published in UK some years ago by Ken Wild titled something like (not sure what the exact title is) Chess Encyclopedia.

You may be thinking of "The Oxford Companion to Chess" by David Hooper and Kenneth Whyld. Does not say anything about the subject matter of this thread though.

ElevatorEscapee
11-01-2016, 10:22 PM
^^ I agree with the post above, I have the "Oxford companion to chess" by Hooper and Whyld, and iI've looked through it and it doesn't mention anything about which countries joined FIDE and when... let alone Australia.

Kaitlin
22-03-2016, 09:06 AM
We could write to FIDE and ask them when we joined .... rofl
... :owned: .....rofl

MichaelBaron
23-03-2016, 10:28 AM
We could write to FIDE and ask them when we joined .... rofl
... :owned: .....rofl

I doubt they know that. Some of the Fide ''activitists'' do not even know how to move chess pieces :)

Kevin Bonham
23-03-2016, 05:48 PM
The golden rule - always see post 1. They didn't know and asked us!

Kaitlin
23-03-2016, 05:59 PM
I did read from post 1.... rofl .... got you :owned:

... and it's not even April yet..

Denis_Jessop
03-04-2016, 11:18 PM
Getting back to the basic question (and the 1938 Olympiad), FIDE was formed in 1924 and Australia was a member in 1946. Cecil Purdy reports that FIDE was to hold its first post-was meeting in Zürich in July or August 1946 and that Australia was one of the 44 affiliates. The USSR was not. (Chess World 1946, p.99.) Thus Australia was affiliated at some time between 1924 and 1939.

Among his articles in Chess World, Purdy seems to have devoted little time to FIDE. In a long article "Chess Cavalcade 1929-54" (CW 1954, p.146), he mentions many local and overseas happenings and events including a short account of the 1938 Olympiad matter. According to him, Argentina, the hosts, agreed to pay fares and over 250 pounds had been guaranteed by Australians. That would suggest that there was no question of repaying any money. Apparently the boat that was to carry the team was only postponed for a month but that was not known at the time. Thus the team could have gone but it didn't.

DJ

ElevatorEscapee
13-05-2016, 11:31 PM
^^ So, with all this murky history, is it possible to prove that Australia ever joined FIDE? ;)

Metro
06-01-2018, 12:16 PM
The Australasian Chess Review p.297 Nov.18 1937

"The Council of the Australian Chess Federation, at its last meeting,.....decided to affiliate with the F.I.D.E. as soon as possible.A report on these matters should be available shortly."

dbaussie
13-03-2018, 07:25 PM
Clearly we had joined by May 1939 as there apparently was some kerfuffle at the NSW State championships around the use of FIDE rules.
See https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/236292227 and https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/236288398 for the somewhat sensationalist reporting.