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biggles
05-12-2004, 09:05 AM
I have just unearthed Australia's third grandmaster, whilst following the US championships. See the following quote from the blog:

"Bad Bad Walter Browne is not having a good tournament, but I tried to do my part to make doubly sure he did not need to change his license plate from Ol6TIME to Ol7TIME. Unfortunately, he punished my impertinent intentions in typical Brownean style. The Australian-born GM-turned-poker-player had way more time than usual to finish me off."

Has anyone ever heard of him? Has he ever played here?
Do I get the $100,000

David Bell?

Rincewind
05-12-2004, 09:12 AM
Has anyone ever heard of him? Has he ever played here?
Do I get the $100,000

Yes.
Not sure.
No.

Bill Gletsos
05-12-2004, 11:31 AM
Browne was born in Sydney in 1949.
He went to the US as child.
Around 1968 he returned to Australia and was here for about 5 years.
During that time he represented Australia at the Olympiads of 1970 and 1972.
I think he got the bronze medal in 1972 on board 1.
He was awarded the GM title in 1970.
He won the Australian Championship in 1969.
He won the US Championship consecutively in 1974, 1975 and 1977 and was =1st consecutively in 1980, 1981 and 1983.

He was rated =14th in the world on the FIDE January 1976 rating list.

pax
05-12-2004, 11:45 AM
Well, strictly speaking, Browne was Australia's first GM. He put in some amazing performances in Olympiads for Australia.

biggles
05-12-2004, 12:26 PM
Surely Browne IS our first grandmaster, and Rogers our second. That makes Daryl the third which means HE gets the $100,000
How about we invite Browne back to play at Mt Buller, and recognize him in some way.

David Bell

Paul S
05-12-2004, 12:38 PM
Surely Browne IS our first grandmaster, and Rogers our second. That makes Daryl the third which means HE gets the $100,000
How about we invite Browne back to play at Mt Buller, and recognize him in some way.

David Bell

It sounds like Darryl Johansen should send a $100,000 invoice to David Cordover! :lol:

Garvinator
05-12-2004, 12:42 PM
It sounds like Darryl Johansen should send a $100,000 invoice to David Cordover! :lol:
why cordover, apart from darryl and david not getting along ;)

Paul S
05-12-2004, 12:45 PM
why cordover, apart from darryl and david not getting along ;)

Read David's "vote for me" letter that appears in the latest ACF email news bulletin and you will see why! :P

Recherché
05-12-2004, 12:51 PM
I don't see that Australia has any claim to having 3 GMs right now. Browne appears to be neither active, nor resident in or even involved with Australia.

I'm still looking forward to the day when Smerdon, Zhao, Bjelobrk, or one of the upcoming juniors makes it.

Garvinator
05-12-2004, 01:14 PM
Read David's "vote for me" letter that appears in the latest ACF email news bulletin and you will see why! :P
yes i did notice that letter ;)

Bill Gletsos
05-12-2004, 03:38 PM
I don't see that Australia has any claim to having 3 GMs right now. Browne appears to be neither active, nor resident in or even involved with Australia.
No one is suggesting we have 3 GM's right now.
However that does not negate the fact that Australia has had 3 GM's of which two are currently active within Australia.

PHAT
05-12-2004, 09:32 PM
No one is suggesting we have 3 GM's right now.
However that does not negate the fact that Australia has had 3 GM's of which two are currently active within Australia.
Well, I think we should count all GMs. Therefore with Holden we have 4.

Bill Gletsos
05-12-2004, 10:18 PM
Well, I think we should count all GMs. Therefore with Holden we have 4.
That isnt remotely funny.

PHAT
05-12-2004, 10:40 PM
That isnt remotely funny.

Now that is realy funny.

Recherché
06-12-2004, 10:11 AM
No one is suggesting we have 3 GM's right now.
However that does not negate the fact that Australia has had 3 GM's of which two are currently active within Australia.

The fact we had another GM at some point in the past is more or less meaningless when discussing the current state of Australian chess, which as far as I can tell is the main topic behind discussions about our number of GMs and who the next one might be.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 10:35 AM
The fact we had another GM at some point in the past is more or less meaningless when discussing the current state of Australian chess, which as far as I can tell is the main topic behind discussions about our number of GMs and who the next one might be.
Where was biggles the thread starter discussing the current state.
When biggles started this thread there was nothing to suggest it was devoted to current GM's.
He simply noted that Australia has had 3 GM's.

Recherché
06-12-2004, 01:01 PM
Where was biggles the thread starter discussing the current state.

The thread is an implied follow on from the previous discussions of this topic on this forum.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 01:14 PM
The thread is an implied follow on from the previous discussions of this topic on this forum.
There is no implied follow on from the previous thread at all.
Firstly if there was there would have been no need for a seperate thread and secondly the thread is mainly highlighting the fact that Australia already has had 3 GM's.

arosar
06-12-2004, 01:19 PM
Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of Australian chess online encyclopaedia, similar to Wiki, that PaulB set up.

We should input these kinds of nugget of info.

AR

Recherché
06-12-2004, 02:04 PM
There is no implied follow on from the previous thread at all.
Firstly if there was there would have been no need for a seperate thread and secondly the thread is mainly highlighting the fact that Australia already has had 3 GM's.

The posts previous to mine (including the first post in the thread) were clearly referencing prior discussions about the current Australian grandmaster situation, in particular they comment about the $100,000 GM bounty recently suggested and debated.

This argument is, frankly, silly. The main thrust of my post was that I didn't think this "discovery" was something worth getting particularly excited about, and that it didn't have any major relevance to the Australian chess/grandmaster situation today. That opinion has relevence to the thread independant of the link or lack thereof that this thread has to other discussions about Australian GMs recently.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 02:13 PM
The posts previous to mine (including the first post in the thread) were clearly referencing prior discussions about the current Australian grandmaster situation, in particular they comment about the $100,000 GM bounty recently suggested and debated.
I disagree.
The main thrust of biggles first post was not releated to previous threads about our next at all. In fact as he notes he came across the fact Browne was an Aussie born GM whilst following the US Championships.
The following posts provided information regarding Browne and comments re the Guru's $100,000.


This argument is, frankly, silly. The main thrust of my post was that I didn't think this "discovery" was something worth getting particularly excited about, and that it didn't have any major relevance to the Australian chess/grandmaster situation today.
No one was getting excited about the discovery and no one suggested it had any relevance to the current situtaion.
The posts prior to yours were simply informing biggles who GM Browne was. There was some obvious no serious comments regarding the $100k.


That opinion has relevence to the thread independant of the link or lack thereof that this thread has to other discussions about Australian GMs recently.
That opinion had no real relevance as no one was suggesting in the first place that Browne had any relevance to the current situation.
All that was being discussed was historical fact.

arosar
06-12-2004, 02:22 PM
I disagree.
The main thrust of biggles first post was not releated to previous threads about our next at all. In fact as he notes he came across the fact Browne was an Aussie born GM whilst following the US Championships.
The following posts provided information regarding Browne and comments re the Guru's $100,000..

Bill, you're wrong on this one - getting all worked up over nothing. It's a very oppressive read.

AR

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 02:29 PM
Bill, you're wrong on this one - getting all worked up over nothing. It's a very oppressive read.

AR
I'm not worked up at all AR.
I havent abused him.
I just disagree with him regarding his interpretation of biggles original post and those posts prior to his first post in the thread.

biggles
06-12-2004, 04:27 PM
This is the point of my original post..... I have spent the last 20 years or so assuming that Ian Rogers was our first Grandmaster, and that we have had a total of 2 GM's. I suddenly unearthed a reference to Browne that made me wonder what his link to Australian chess might have been. It turns out acc to Bill's notes that the link was very significant and that whilst playing in Australia and for Australia he achieved his GM. So clearly HE is our first GM and Ian Rogers is not.
Browne may no longer be in Australia but he deserves his place in our history as our first GM.
I believe we are all rather surprised by this and are probably ready to concede that our traditional understanding of our history was plainly wrong. I know that I am. Ian Rogers deserves a multitude of praise and credit, but he can no longer wear the mantle of our GM pioneer.



David Bell
aka biggles

Rincewind
06-12-2004, 04:48 PM
This is the point of my original post..... I have spent the last 20 years or so assuming that Ian Rogers was our first Grandmaster, and that we have had a total of 2 GM's. I suddenly unearthed a reference to Browne that made me wonder what his link to Australian chess might have been. It turns out acc to Bill's notes that the link was very significant and that whilst playing in Australia and for Australia he achieved his GM. So clearly HE is our first GM and Ian Rogers is not.
Browne may no longer be in Australia but he deserves his place in our history as our first GM.
I believe we are all rather surprised by this and are probably ready to concede that our traditional understanding of our history was plainly wrong. I know that I am. Ian Rogers deserves a multitude of praise and credit, but he can no longer wear the mantle of our GM pioneer.

My understanding is that Walter left Australia at a very young age and only returned here to visit. (Including the win at the Aus Championship). Not sure of his citizenship, he obviously qualified to represent Australia at the olympiad. However, in terms of chess played in Australia and impact on the Australian chess scene Ian is our first GM and Darryl our second. Walter is a US GM who happened to be born in Australia. The equivalent of Taylor Dent in tennis (if only he would play Davis Cup). ;)

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 06:19 PM
My understanding is that Walter left Australia at a very young age and only returned here to visit. (Including the win at the Aus Championship).
I'm pretty certain you are correct about this Barry.

The information "Around 1968 he returned to Australia and was here for about 5 years." I took from the entry on Browne in "The Oxford Companion of Chess". I must admit I did not think it was right when I read it but included it as I figured they knew more about him than I did.
It appears I was mistaken in that belief.

According to Informator 10 Browne was awarded his GM tilte at the FIDE Congress of 1970. His federation is listed as Australia.

Recherché
06-12-2004, 06:28 PM
he obviously qualified to represent Australia at the olympiad.

If comments in the recent Olympiad thread are accurate, the selection criteria are rather lax.

arosar
06-12-2004, 06:32 PM
And so it seems that Browne is our first ever GM then?

AR

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 06:34 PM
If comments in the recent Olympiad thread are accurate, the selection criteria are rather lax.
I dont believe they were anywhere near as lax back in the early 70's.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 06:40 PM
And so it seems that Browne is our first ever GM then?

AR
Browne learnt his chess and spent virtually his entire life in the US. He is a product of the US chess scene.
So only by virtue of being born here is he technically our first GM.

However I consider Ian Rogers to be our first true GM. A product of the Australian scene.

arosar
06-12-2004, 06:43 PM
Yeah . . . I agree with you Bill. I've got no friggin idea who this Browne fella is. Still, this technicality ought to be acknowledged. Not many people realise this I think.

AR

Recherché
06-12-2004, 06:59 PM
However I consider Ian Rogers to be our first true GM. A product of the Australian scene.

I support this interpretation.

Denis_Jessop
06-12-2004, 07:08 PM
This is the point of my original post..... I have spent the last 20 years or so assuming that Ian Rogers was our first Grandmaster, and that we have had a total of 2 GM's. I suddenly unearthed a reference to Browne that made me wonder what his link to Australian chess might have been. It turns out acc to Bill's notes that the link was very significant and that whilst playing in Australia and for Australia he achieved his GM. So clearly HE is our first GM and Ian Rogers is not.
Browne may no longer be in Australia but he deserves his place in our history as our first GM.
I believe we are all rather surprised by this and are probably ready to concede that our traditional understanding of our history was plainly wrong. I know that I am. Ian Rogers deserves a multitude of praise and credit, but he can no longer wear the mantle of our GM pioneer.

David Bell
aka biggles

I fear that this thread is running the risk of becoming unproductive. There is no doubt that Browne was born in Australia and was a GM before Ian or Darryl. But I well recall that there was a (well-founded) scepticism about his intentions when he came to Australia. The feeling was that he came here to get a place on our Olympiad team because he couldn't then make it on the US team. He soon returned to the US and hasn't been seen here since. If you want to go for dinkum Aussie GMs Ian and Darryl are it.

On the other hand, if you are interested in the strongest Australian player ever, though not born here, it would be hard to go past Lajos Steiner. He was pretty strongly arguably of GM strength before WWII and was, I believe suggested as a possible World Championship contender. But political circumstances forced him to leave Europe and he settled in Australia where he completely dominated the scene in the post-war years. He eventually was given the IM title but at his best was much better than that. Out here he lacked the opposition to allow him to maintain his former strength.

Denis Jessop

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 07:35 PM
According to a report of the 1972 Olympiad by Garry Koshnitsky(he was team captain) in the November 1972 issue of CIA, he notes that Browne requested a playing fee. Apparently all members of the US team received $2,000 and airfares. For his pariciipation for Australia, Browne asked for and received $1200. Garry also notes that Browne was eligible for the US team on both residential qualifications and by his rating.


Also the olympibase web sites states in its notes of the 1972 Olympiad the following:
"GM Walter Brown of Australia set unique and valuable triple record: he was the first man to score as much as 17½ points at one Olympiad; the first man to play as much as 22 games and the first man to win as much as 15 games."

auriga
06-12-2004, 09:37 PM
According to a report of the 1972 Olympiad by Garry Koshnitsky(he was team captain) in the November 1972 issue of CIA, he notes that Browne requested a playing fee. Apparently all members of the US team received $2,000 and airfares. For his pariciipation for Australia, Browne asked for and received $1200. Garry also notes that Browne was eligible for the US team on both residential qualifications and by his rating.


Also the olympibase web sites states in its notes of the 1972 Olympiad the following:
"GM Walter Brown of Australia set unique and valuable triple record: he was the first man to score as much as 17½ points at one Olympiad; the first man to play as much as 22 games and the first man to win as much as 15 games."

thanks bill. very interesting stuff!

shaun
06-12-2004, 10:13 PM
Without wishing to bag anyones knowledge of chess history, to say that "I believe we are all rather surprised by this and are probably ready to concede that our traditional understanding of our history was plainly wrong.", is just not true. I would have assumed that most serious students of Australian chess would have been completely aware of Browne's status as an Australian player, and the circumstances of his representing this country.
The reason that Rogers is considered our first GM isn't because of blanket ignorance or denial of history, instead it is exactly the opposite.

PHAT
06-12-2004, 10:21 PM
The main thrust of my post was that I didn't think this "discovery" was something worth getting particularly excited about, and that it didn't have any major relevance to the Australian chess/grandmaster situation today.

Exactly. Be sure however, BG will not let it rest.

SUCKED IN :lol:

PHAT
06-12-2004, 10:30 PM
However I consider Ian Rogers to be our first true GM.

I disagree. That should read, "However I consider Ian Rogers to be our true first GM."

Now how's that for pedantic

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 10:53 PM
Exactly. Be sure however, BG will not let it rest.

SUCKED IN :lol:
The last thing he needs is to be told how to post by a fool like you and he doesnt tell others to STFU or FO.

You are a joke.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 10:54 PM
I disagree. That should read, "However I consider Ian Rogers to be our true first GM."

Now how's that for pedantic
Who gives a rats what you think.

You are a fool.

PHAT
06-12-2004, 10:58 PM
You are a fool.

Speaking of fools, how is your son chesslover going?

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 11:01 PM
Speaking of fools, how is your son chesslover going?
And this sort of childish comment just demonstrates what a complete and utter moron you are.

PHAT
06-12-2004, 11:15 PM
And this sort of childish comment just demonstrates what a complete and utter moron you are.

So, you're a bit disappointed with him. Sorry, I shouldn't have pried.

Bill Gletsos
06-12-2004, 11:18 PM
So, you're a bit disappointed with him. Sorry, I shouldn't have pried.
As I have stated repeatedly and which you continually confirm by your actions, you are a total moron.

JGB
07-12-2004, 07:46 AM
Perhaps a bit of news regarding the good ole GM Walter Browne, he has finished in 34th place from 64 participants in the US Championships with 4.5 points.

pballard
07-12-2004, 09:33 PM
On the other hand, if you are interested in the strongest Australian player ever, though not born here, it would be hard to go past Lajos Steiner. He was pretty strongly arguably of GM strength before WWII and was, I believe suggested as a possible World Championship contender. But political circumstances forced him to leave Europe and he settled in Australia where he completely dominated the scene in the post-war years. He eventually was given the IM title but at his best was much better than that. Out here he lacked the opposition to allow him to maintain his former strength.
Denis Jessop

I have a book by Reuben Fine called "The World's Great Chess Games", in which Fine gives a game or three by the leading players of each era. Fine, who would have been a contemporary of Steiner, sees fit to mention Steiner among a dozen or so not-quite-world-championship-calibre players from the 1930's, which is pretty high praise. (The game for Steiner is a win against Keres in 1935).

Steiner played in the 1948 Interzonal and came 2nd last. If you don't count Browne (who I think got in as a US representative in any case), that'd be Australia's only appearance at an Interzonal until Rogers in 1990.

So yeah, he must've been pretty good.

--
Peter

JGB
07-12-2004, 09:48 PM
I have a book by Reuben Fine called "The World's Great Chess Games", in which Fine gives a game or three by the leading players of each era. Fine, who would have been a contemporary of Steiner, sees fit to mention Steiner among a dozen or so not-quite-world-championship-calibre players from the 1930's, which is pretty high praise. (The game for Steiner is a win against Keres in 1935).

Steiner played in the 1948 Interzonal and came 2nd last. If you don't count Browne (who I think got in as a US representative in any case), that'd be Australia's only appearance at an Interzonal until Rogers in 1990.

So yeah, he must've been pretty good.

--
Peter

He was born in Hungary or Czech wasn't he?
Is it possible that Steiner later moved back to Europe, gaining an Austrian citizenship, I have a book that states that. Ill have to check it out when I get home tonight. They may have got their countries mixed up and meant the real 'Aus'?

Bill Gletsos
07-12-2004, 10:03 PM
According to Chess Personalia by Gaige he was born 14/06/1903 in Oradea Romania.

Denis_Jessop
07-12-2004, 11:29 PM
He was born in Hungary or Czech wasn't he?
Is it possible that Steiner later moved back to Europe, gaining an Austrian citizenship, I have a book that states that. Ill have to check it out when I get home tonight. They may have got their countries mixed up and meant the real 'Aus'?

There is a little more background in the Oxford Companion to Chess. Lajos Steiner was a Hungarian chess palyer. He won the Hungarian Championship in 1931 and 1935 and played for Hungary in the Olympiads of 1931, 1933 and 1935, on the last occasion on first board. He also finished equal second with Nimzovitch half a point behind Alekhine at Kecskemet 1927 and beat Lilienthal in a match in 1935, among other things. He settled in Australia just before WWII after making an Asian tour and liking it here. He married Edna Kingston, then a leading Australian woman player. The Austrian reference is quite wrong. His invitation to play at the Saltsjobaden interzonal was made, I believe, on the strength of his pre-war performances but he was out of form as the Australian opposition of the day was insufficient. The first 4 at Saltsjobaden were Bronstein, Szabo, Boleslavsky and Kotov and it was a really strong field. Moreover Steiner had played in two other tournaments, one of which - Carlsbad-Marienbad - finished only 11 days before the interzonal. He finished 3rd in that tournament.

Denis Jessop

JGB
08-12-2004, 02:56 AM
Chessbase 2001 Player Encyclopedia has Lajos Steiner as being an International Master from Austria. Not that I would really trust that.

Denis_Jessop
08-12-2004, 11:28 AM
Chessbase 2001 Player Encyclopedia has Lajos Steiner as being an International Master from Austria. Not that I would really trust that.

In this case, I can assure you that you can't trust it. After coming to Australia he remained here for good, dying in 1975.

As a matter of total trivia, I played him in a simul at Canberra Chess Club in February 1953 when I was still a junior. It was a calmish positional game which I duly lost in 33 moves, playing like a bunny (I still do).

Denis Jessop

Duff McKagan
06-01-2005, 05:46 PM
You know that the net result of this thread is just Cordover's escape clause.

arosar
08-03-2005, 07:57 PM
Who here knows a bit about Ian Rogers? The entry for him in Wiki is so anaemic. It deserves expansion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_rogers

AR

antichrist
08-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Why didn't you warn us that there is a picture of that **%%$## Howard on there?

Denis_Jessop
08-03-2005, 08:30 PM
Why didn't you warn us that there is a picture of that **%%$## Howard on there?

To which Howard do you refer - Leslie or Trevor? I believe that Leslie was the better actor but I don't hold a brief (or even a pair of trousers) for either of them. What's more it's your own fault for going outside your directions. Arosar pointed us at a meagre Rogers entry and there wasn't a Howard in sight when I went there. :rolleyes: :owned:

DJ

antichrist
08-03-2005, 08:39 PM
It led to general info on OZ that had a photo of our squirmy PM

arosar
08-03-2005, 09:47 PM
Sensation on playchess. Hawkeye appears under Aussie flag. His notes read that he is presently in Brissy.

Hawkeye is German GM Roland Schmaltz.

AR

pax
14-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Who here knows a bit about Ian Rogers? The entry for him in Wiki is so anaemic. It deserves expansion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_rogers

AR

It's also wrong. Walter Browne was the first Australian born GM.

pax
14-03-2005, 03:28 PM
I have looked around on the web, but there seems to be very little in the way of biographical info on Ian. Does anyone know of a good bio or interview?

What are his tournament highlights? I seem to remember a good Wijk Aan Zee B or C performance a few years back, but can't remember the details.

I have corrected the wiki entry, but it will remain very brief until I can track down some useful bio.

Rhubarb
14-03-2005, 04:16 PM
^ Ian had three great victories in Groningen (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eric.delaire/Tournois/Groningen.htm) from 1988-90 in ever stronger tournaments. Arguably the middle one where he came a full point ahead of a young Anand was the best but 1990 had more young stars. Also keep in mind the FIDE ratings of everyone would be inflated 50+ more 15 years later.

I recall Ian saying at the time one of these was his result best ever. I'm sure he'll read this eventually and give us his own thoughts.

Rhubarb
14-03-2005, 05:25 PM
I have corrected the wiki entry, but it will remain very brief until I can track down some useful bio.BTW, pax, I'm not sure about your wiki correction: "The second Australian born chess player to achieve the International Grandmaster title." Although it is technically correct it places an undue emphasis on where people were born. Couldn't you have just forgotten that and changed it to Australia's first grandmaster, since Rogers is our first GM under any meaningful criterion.

Browne's contribution to Australian chess is virtually nothing and it was a crying shame that the administrators of the time allowed him to play for Australia in the Olympiads. I have it on good authority that he has spent a total of one month in Australia since leaving as a kid, nothing like the five years quoted in some sources.

eclectic
14-03-2005, 11:44 PM
BTW, pax, I'm not sure about your wiki correction: "The second Australian born chess player to achieve the International Grandmaster title." Although it is technically correct it places an undue emphasis on where people were born. Couldn't you have just forgotten that and changed it to Australia's first grandmaster, since Rogers is our first GM under any meaningful criterion.

Browne's contribution to Australian chess is virtually nothing and it was a crying shame that the administrators of the time allowed him to play for Australia in the Olympiads. I have it on good authority that he has spent a total of one month in Australia since leaving as a kid, nothing like the five years quoted in some sources.

unless pax is referring to purdy as a correspondence chess grandmaster?

most likely not ...

to parody joel (billy, not the prophet)

[when ' shawne browne finally got to that place
they shoved an american flag in his face ...]

eclectic

Rhubarb
15-03-2005, 12:02 AM
unless pax is referring to purdy as a correspondence chess grandmaster?

most likely not ...

to parody joel (billy, not the prophet)

[when ' shawne browne finally got to that place
they shoved an american flag in his face ...]

eclecticNow my good mate eclectic, I thought I'd just done a pretty good hatchet job on the ill-informed crap that had infested this thread since ... since it started ... and now you try and reignite the bullshit.

Purdy's achievements are well documented. But when you refer to "purdy[sic] as a correspondence chess grandmaster" it disqualifies you from all intelligent comment. STFU.

P.S. You're trying too hard now.

eclectic
15-03-2005, 12:24 AM
Now my good mate eclectic, I thought I'd just done a pretty good hatchet job on the ill-informed crap that had infested this thread since ... since it started ... and now you try and reignite the bullshit.

Purdy's achievements are well documented. But when you refer to "purdy[sic] as a correspondence chess grandmaster" it disqualifies you from all intelligent comment. STFU.

P.S. You're trying too hard now.

oh,

sorry,

i thought that like otb world champions correspondence world champions were grandmasters de jure in their field thus my reference to purdy

no need to mention he was world champion as that should be common knowledge

thought too perhaps a corro afficionado ? was trying to have one of their own jump in on the otb gm gravy train

then again australia could do with every gm it can get ...

for marketing purposes [:understated sarcasm:]

now i will

:hand: s :hand: t :hand: f :hand: u :hand:

eclectic

Rhubarb
15-03-2005, 01:01 AM
Let me just spell it out for people who are apparently or wilfully too dim to understand the simplest of points.

Our first ever grandmaster is Ian Rogers.

Our second ever grandmaster is Darryl Johansen.

We do not have a third grandmaster.

pax
15-03-2005, 09:28 AM
Yeah, that's probably fair kegless.

From an interview with Browne:


c: Under what circumstances did you come to live in the United States?

WB: My father is a third generation American; my Mother is a citizen of
Australia. So I was born in Australia but was a U.S. citizen; a dual
citizen of Australia and the U.S. at birth. We came to the U.S. when I was
three years old, and I grew up around New York. I moved to California in
1973.

antichrist
27-01-2009, 12:08 AM
wel that does it, Thanks Dennis for the ref: Walter was and still is our first GM. Which also makes him the first GM of Asia as well does it, ahead of Eugene Torre of Philippines. That is worth it alone.

Rincewind
27-01-2009, 07:23 AM
We do not have a third grandmaster.

This is no longer true.

Davidflude
27-01-2009, 09:15 AM
This discussion is typical of over the board players.

The very first GM was Cecil Purdy -Correspondence Chess World Champion which automatically makes him a corresponence chess Grand master.

Davidflude
27-01-2009, 09:18 AM
We have an active Correspondence GM at present. I have forgotten his name. Would someone else plese post it.

Spiny Norman
27-01-2009, 09:23 AM
The name Kerr rings a bell ... is that right?

Bill Gletsos
27-01-2009, 12:46 PM
The name Kerr rings a bell ... is that right?Not according to the latest lists on the ICCF website.
Stephen is a Senior International Master (awarded 2005) and has 1 GM norm.
The other Senior IM's are Max Salm (1999), Tim Runting (2003), Gary Benson (2005) Bruce Oates (2006).

The only currently living Australians with a Correspondence GM title are Romanas Arlauskas who was awarded the title in 1965 and Chris Fenwick who was awarded it sometime in the past 2 years.

The two deceased Correspondence GM title holders are Cecil Purdy and Lucius Endzelins who both earned the title in 1959.

On the current ICCF rating lists it shows Chris Fenwick as a GM with a rating of 2590 ranked equal 99th.
Next on the list at Senior IM Bruce Oates rated 2566 and ranked equal 175th.

Adamski
27-01-2009, 01:14 PM
The other Senior IM's are Max Salm (1999), Tim Runting (2003), Gary Benson (2005) Bruce Oates (2006).On the current ICCF rating lists it shows Chris Fenwick as a GM with a rating of 2590 ranked equal 99th.
Next on the list at Senior IM Bruce Oates rated 2566 and ranked equal 175th.That same Bruce Oates has recently joined this forum.

Basil
27-01-2009, 01:35 PM
No wonder this 3rd GM is hard to reconcile.

Anyone who has been unearthed and then suffered the indignity of being bumped would be indeed best served by keeping a low profile.

Imagine the price of failure!

Capablanca-Fan
27-01-2009, 02:26 PM
I fear that this thread is running the risk of becoming unproductive. There is no doubt that Browne was born in Australia and was a GM before Ian or Darryl. But I well recall that there was a (well-founded) scepticism about his intentions when he came to Australia. The feeling was that he came here to get a place on our Olympiad team because he couldn't then make it on the US team. He soon returned to the US and hasn't been seen here since. If you want to go for dinkum Aussie GMs Ian and Darryl are it.

On the other hand, if you are interested in the strongest Australian player ever, though not born here, it would be hard to go past Lajos Steiner. He was pretty strongly arguably of GM strength before WWII and was, I believe suggested as a possible World Championship contender. But political circumstances forced him to leave Europe and he settled in Australia where he completely dominated the scene in the post-war years. He eventually was given the IM title but at his best was much better than that. Out here he lacked the opposition to allow him to maintain his former strength.
Hard to argue with that:

Chessmetrics Player Profile: Lajos Steiner (http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S126062000000 111000000000028210100)
Born: 1903-Jun
Died: 1975-Apr
Best World Rank: #11 (2 different months between the July 1937 rating list and the August 1937 rating list )
Highest Rating: 2654 on the January 1938 rating list, #12 in world, age 34y7m
Best Individual Performance: 2728 in Kecskemet, 1927, scoring 6/7 (86%) vs 2597-rated opposition

Career performances of 2800-2899:
(none)
Career performances of 2700-2799:
2728 in Kecskemet, 1927, scoring 6/7 (86%) vs 2597-rated opposition
2718 in Lilienthal-Steiner Match (Budapest), 1935, scoring 4/6 (67%) vs 2702-rated opposition

Anyone ranked in the top dozen in the world would easily be a GM today with our inflated titles.

Compare Chessmetrics Player Profile: Walter Browne (http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S016860000000 111000000000003110100)
Born: 1949-Jan
Best World Rank: #27 (2 different months between the December 1975 rating list and the January 1976 rating list )
Highest Rating: 2678 on the May 1982 rating list, #28 in world, age 33y4m
Best Individual Performance: 2743 in Wijk aan Zee (Hoogovens), 1980, scoring 10/13 (77%) vs 2596-rated opposition

Career performances of 2800-2899:
(none)
Career performances of 2700-2799:
2743 in Wijk aan Zee (Hoogovens), 1980, scoring 10/13 (77%) vs 2596-rated opposition
2720 in Wijk aan Zee (Hoogovens), 1974, scoring 11/15 (73%) vs 2580-rated opposition
2706 in Naestved, 1985, scoring 6.5/11 (59%) vs 2679-rated opposition
2706 in Reykjavik, 1978, scoring 8/12 (67%) vs 2625-rated opposition
2702 in Venice, 1971, scoring 8.5/11 (77%) vs 2561-rated opposition

antichrist
29-01-2009, 04:15 PM
This is no longer true.
We have 3 GMs and two ex's, Purdy and Walter

Denis_Jessop
29-01-2009, 04:46 PM
We have 3 GMs and two ex's, Purdy and Walter

I suppose we really have 3.9 GMs as David Smerdon's qualification subject to reaching FIDE 2500 has been recognised by FIDE and he is almost there - a good performance in the Doeberl Cup may see him make it which would also be nice for the organisers, especially now that the ACT is David's place of residence.

DJ

Vlad
29-01-2009, 04:59 PM
In that case Australia has at least 5 gms.. Every IM has at least 10% chance of getting a gm title. every FM - at least 5%, etc. If you add across all Australians you will get a significant number..;)

Denis_Jessop
29-01-2009, 07:42 PM
In that case Australia has at least 5 gms.. Every IM has at least 10% chance of getting a gm title. every FM - at least 5%, etc. If you add across all Australians you will get a significant number..;)

Even though I know you are partly joking :) , of course all the IMs have a chance to get GM norms but it's not easy. I daresay all of us would like to see many of them succeed. Within Australia and NZ (that is, without having to travel too far) there's probably more opportunity for FMs (and others) to make IM norms.

The difference with David is that he already has the GM norms and FIDE recognition and "just" needs a few rating points to clinch it.

DJ