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pax
03-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Hi All,

I've been working on a tool for generating web sites for chess tournament coverage (especially since boggling at the very poor website coverage of the World Junior Championships).

The tool imports data from Swiss Perfect (via SPDE files), and automatically generates a website with player lists, standings, pairings, results and cross table.

The details are at:
http://www.eng.uts.edu.au/~jpaxman/sp2html/
including sample pages built from the 2004 ACT Open and Victorian Masters SP files.

What I would like to know:
-Do you think this is a useful tool?
-Would you use it?
-What features would you like to see?
-Is there anything else that does something similar to this?

At this stage I'm beta testing. If anyone would like a copy to test, please get in touch with me. All I want in return is:
-keep me up to date with any web pages you have built using the tool.
-send me a report on any bugs you find.
-let me know what features you would like to see in the next version.

thanks,

Jonathan Paxman
jpaxman at eng dot uts dot edu dot au

Spiny Norman
03-12-2004, 05:16 PM
Just wanted to be the first to say "well done" ... that's a really creative and useful response to an identified need. When I get to the point of running some tournaments down here in Melbourne I'd be happy to help with the testing process.

Recherché
04-12-2004, 10:51 AM
Fabulous idea. :)

On first impression it seems to be quite well executed too. You may perhaps want to include a feature which makes it easy to include commentary on the tournament as well, since I assume this is meant to be used by people who aren't familiar with creating web pages at all.

I also have a minor style comment in that I think you're abbreviating table headings unnecessarily.

PHAT
04-12-2004, 02:30 PM
WOW. Top stuff!

Suggestion: Needs a place for big sexy sponsor logos. It would help in the selling of naming rights.

skip to my lou
04-12-2004, 03:12 PM
This is great for people without server side scripting. Good work, post stickied.

pax
05-12-2004, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the positive comments everyone. Ooh, sticky post!

The program is still in a pretty embryonic phase, as I've only been at it for a week or so. Just wanted to get it out there as soon as possible so that I can get some feedback.

I do plan to make it as customizable as possible so that you can create a good website without extra editing. You can also just use it to create the tables, which can be integrated with a website of your own design.

Pax

shaun
05-12-2004, 07:28 PM
Open source?

pax
07-12-2004, 08:40 AM
Open source?

Probably. Certainly the executables will be freely available. I probably won't release the source until the program stabilizes a bit.

arosar
07-12-2004, 08:50 AM
But if you release it now, then all these smarty techies can help you, see.

AR

PHAT
07-12-2004, 08:59 AM
But if you release it now, then all these smarty techies can help you, see.

AR

Maybe he IS a smarty techi
Maybe he wants to sell it to SwissPerfect and have the two programs bundled.

I think that woulkd be fair.

arosar
07-12-2004, 09:06 AM
Yeah . . . fair enough. No reason why anyone shouldn't make money out of an innovation.

AR

pax
09-12-2004, 04:27 PM
I've just updated the examples with my latest build:

http://services.eng.uts.edu.au/~jpaxman/sp2html/

The pages now look a bit better, and I have added sensible linking, e.g from the crosstable to the round results, and linked the standings and results pages to the "next" and "previous" rounds.

Spiny Norman
19-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Would like to test this out for you PAX, any chance you can shoot me a copy to play with?

pax
19-04-2005, 09:44 PM
SP2HTML has undergone a fairly substantial amount of development.

Beta version 0.5 will be released this week (probably tomorrow). The program will be available for download from the homepage:
http://www.eng.uts.edu.au/~jpaxman/sp2html/

Note that those who use sp2html already should only need to download the executable, not the entire installer.

Among the changes:

-Now reads the TRN and SCO files directly, no need to export SPDE files.
-Added customisable colours and fonts.
-Added federation field.
-Changed the useless output directory chooser (now selects the output index file with MS common dialog).
-Added tiebreak ranking and display (currently available: Buchholz, Median Buchholz and Sum of Progressive).
-Improved use of cascading style sheets: all files use a single style.css file (which can be manually edited for more advanced customisation).
-Added support for multi-game rounds.
-Forfeits now displayed as "+ -" etc (thanks to the SCO file).
-Fixed a few minor issues identified by beta testers.

In the pipeline:
-optional Round-robin style crosstables.
-automatically linked pgn viewer.
-user edited info page.

The program seems to be taking shape, and a number of people around Australia are using it already. I would welcome more users and more feedback. Please let me know asap if you find any of the (inevitable) bugs - send me example files which induce errors SwissPerfect has a few quirks which I may not have totally covered yet.

Jon
sp2html@gmail.com

pax
20-04-2005, 11:17 AM
Version 0.5 has some apparent installation problems. Release is on hold until these are fully sorted (shouldn't take too long to sort out).

pax
24-04-2005, 04:17 PM
Ok, the executable has been updated and should now work properly. The installer probably won't be updated until later in the week.

pax
26-04-2005, 11:53 AM
Version 0.5 has been released, and is available for download:

http://www.eng.uts.edu.au/~jpaxman/sp2html/

Please check it out. There have been many improvements since the last version. The installation issues should now be resolved, but if you have any difficulty installing or running it, please do let me know.

Pax
sp2html@gmail.com

Spiny Norman
26-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Thanks PAX, we'll give it a try.

Davidflude
26-04-2005, 06:56 PM
I have not checked you what uou have done yet but what would be really
nice would be a program to output a file of games in PGN format once the draw
for a round is completed.

Clearly there would be no moves. But it is a simple task to import the PGN file
into a chessbase file. We are finding during the Victorian Junior that players are
very good at entering their games into a Chessbase file. Generating blank scores
when the draw is completed eases the task of entering games as well as making
it very easy to pick which games have not had moves entered.

Spiny Norman
26-04-2005, 07:45 PM
I have not checked you what uou have done yet but what would be really nice would be a program to output a file of games in PGN format once the draw for a round is completed.

Great idea David .... I concur.

pax
26-04-2005, 10:06 PM
I have not checked you what uou have done yet but what would be really
nice would be a program to output a file of games in PGN format once the draw
for a round is completed.

Clearly there would be no moves. But it is a simple task to import the PGN file
into a chessbase file. We are finding during the Victorian Junior that players are
very good at entering their games into a Chessbase file. Generating blank scores
when the draw is completed eases the task of entering games as well as making
it very easy to pick which games have not had moves entered.

That's a very neat idea.

It is my intention to add a pgn viewer to sp2html to enable linking from results to play through applets. My main worry with that, is that you can't always guarantee that the pgn file will be in a sensible order, requiring tricky extra searching to find the right games. However that problem goes away if sp2html generates the skeleton PGN. I like it!

I may even think about including an applet based pgn editor so you can upload the pgn without needing chessbase or similar.

Spiny Norman
13-08-2005, 12:09 PM
Some further feedback. Firstly, this has become a valued tool @ Croydon Chess. We now use it to publish all our results. Thanks for providing it. Its really easy to use & understand.

One thing that would be helpful ... after filling out the fields on the form and clicking "Generate HTML", it'd be nice if it popped up a window to show what it was doing in the background, something like:

Reading tournament file ...
Publishing player list ...
Publishing standings ...
Publishing crosstable ...
Publishing index ...
Completed successfully

Your HTML files are in: C:\pathname\to\files

[OK] [Browse files]

Just so that we know where its up to and have quick access to the published files when done (i.e. via a pop-up explorer window).

pax
09-01-2006, 12:03 PM
BTW, congrats on the new version of SP2HTML ... the new features look really good.

Thanks, the main priority was to make it really easy to enter PGN games and have them appear online instantly. There is a PGN editor (based on LT-PGN Viewer) that does the job (but requires a PHP server).

pax
09-01-2006, 12:05 PM
By the way, version 1.0 has been released:

http://sp2html.paxmans.net/

This version is very close to what they are using for the Australian Chess Championships site. It include PGN linking and a PGN editor, along with lots of configurable options and the ability to save multiple preference files.

Spiny Norman
02-03-2006, 08:23 AM
A few thoughts that have surfaced in my mind since tinkering around with Perl and extracting ratings lists from the ACF Master File. Currently I maintain a membership list in an Excel spreadsheet (can supply you a template copy if you are interested). The key things we store are:

- player name and address details
- ACF ID code
- latest rating
- any titles they hold (e.g. IM)
- email address (for communications)
- gender
- date of birth for juniors
- active/inactive indicator

That's about it. Pretty minimal. We categorise records according to:

- current members
- previous members
- visitors

What I've been thinking, in respect of SP2HTML, is what if SP2HTML allowed me to:

1) keep basic member data such as the above; and
2) was able to update ratings automatically from ACF master files; and
3) was able to read/write this data from/to Swiss Perfect files

This would enable clubs, for example, to call up a list of current members, check a box next to that member name, and at the bottom of the form click "Create New Tournament" ... SP2HTML could potentially pick up a SP template (empty) and populate it with member data.

For clubs such as Box Hill that keep ACF IDs in SP files, it would enable them to automatically update all the ratings in the SP file without any manual intervention required.

Just thinking out loud. I would be prepared to make a small financial contribution if this would help. Perhaps others might be interested, so that it would make it worth your while to do the work ... ?

pax
02-03-2006, 09:54 AM
It's a nifty idea, and definitely doable.

It would be a fair amount of work though, so I would want to know that at least a few clubs are interested before taking it on. It also might be better as a separate program, just in order to keep the basic sp2html from getting too large and complicated for those that just want web pages.

p.s Apparently the Latvian Chess Federation is now using sp2html on a regular basis!

Spiny Norman
02-03-2006, 11:46 AM
It would be a fair amount of work though, so I would want to know that at least a few clubs are interested before taking it on. It also might be better as a separate program ...
Yes, not a trivial job. It'll be interesting to see if anyone else here sees the functionality as valuable. I agree that it might be better as a separate app.

kveldulv
02-03-2006, 01:15 PM
It'll be interesting to see if anyone else here sees the functionality as valuable. I agree that it might be better as a separate app.
I have actually started writing an app. that does exactly this.

Shaun

pax
02-03-2006, 01:40 PM
I have actually started writing an app. that does exactly this.


That's great! Will you be making it freely available?

To answer Frosty, I reckon it would be extremely valuable since the existing interface for adding players from the master list is incredibly laborious. If you have a smaller subset to choose from (like a couple of hundred at most) the checkbox idea should make it a breeze.

kveldulv
02-03-2006, 02:40 PM
That's great! Will you be making it freely available?

Yes, it will be freely available.

I was only going to do it to help me when updating results on the Box Hill website (as I don't usually create the tournament in SP) and it's a pain to correct spellings/ratings.

Whilst you're here... Long ago I had intentions of writing a tool like sp2html (tailored to BHCC needs), but I could probably use sp2html with some minor enhancements.

One problem was integrating sp2html generated pages into an existing site/navigation structure. I used sp2html and some manual html editing to give the desired effect on the 2005 Ergas results (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/junior/2005/elite/standings.html) pages.

Also, a cute little feature that would be nice: take a look at this crosstable (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/e2005/e0506frk/crosstable.htm). Make sure you've got javascript turned on, and hover your mouse over results in the table.

Shaun

pax
02-03-2006, 03:25 PM
One problem was integrating sp2html generated pages into an existing site/navigation structure. I used sp2html and some manual html editing to give the desired effect on the 2005 Ergas results (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/junior/2005/elite/standings.html) pages.


Well you can easily embed the sp2html pages into existing pages with frames or server side includes. And you can edit the style file to your heart's content.

Probably the next version will not use frames at all (partly because when I find a sp2html page with google it is always a frame and it can be hard to find the parent). It probably won't be any easier to embed it within your own site design, but it's certainly easier than starting from scratch.

If you can think of a feature that would make this easier, then by all means let me know (sp2html@gmail.com). I could have a template for the nav bar etc, which should allow you to edit it and put your own site nav bar in in addition to the tournament nav bar??




Also, a cute little feature that would be nice: take a look at this crosstable (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/e2005/e0506frk/crosstable.htm). Make sure you've got javascript turned on, and hover your mouse over results in the table.


That's very neat. I'll definitely look at putting it in.

Spiny Norman
02-03-2006, 06:48 PM
I have actually started writing an app. that does exactly this.
Let me know if I can help in any way ... I'm not a code-cutter, but am a dab hand at testing.

kveldulv
03-03-2006, 06:47 AM
If you can think of a feature that would make this easier, then by all means let me know
It's been a while since I used sp2html, so I can't remember exatly what changes I desired, but frames do ring a bell and I think that's one of the things I had to edit out.

One of the other difficulties is working with "divisionalized" tournaments like we run at Box Hill - I wrote a little utility to group and re-compute standings, but I never got around to doing the crosstables (which are a little more involved). I considered these "niche" requirements, which is why I was going to write my own utility.

Shaun

kveldulv
03-03-2006, 07:11 AM
Let me know if I can help in any way ... I'm not a code-cutter, but am a dab hand at testing.
Looks like I need to get a move on... will let you know when ready for some testing.

Shaun

kveldulv
02-06-2006, 09:47 AM
It's been a while, but I've done some work on this recently - and a very basic version is getting close. At this stage the goal is simply to update player details in a Swiss Perfect tournament file - based on their data in the ACF master file. However, the signs are promising, and I can see it eventually doing much more.

In the screenshot below, the top-half shows the ACF master file, the bottom half lists players in your tournament file.

Players in blue are not in the ACF master file, fields in red differ to those in the master file. Fields in black are unchanged. In the example, I have clicked on David Flude, and we can see that in the master file he is listed as "David A" and has a rating of 1651 - not 1652.

Should make it quick and easy to ensure consistent spellings and quickly update players' ratings from master file.

http://www.boxhillchess.org/images/updater-02.png

themovingman
05-07-2006, 04:10 AM
It's been a while, but I've done some work on this recently - and a very basic version is getting close. At this stage the goal is simply to update player details in a Swiss Perfect tournament file - based on their data in the ACF master file. However, the signs are promising, and I can see it eventually doing much more.

[snipped]

Should make it quick and easy to ensure consistent spellings and quickly update players' ratings from master file.




looks really really useful - at present I do it by hand - with attendant typos, and when I programed I thought I would have to [one day] do something - it was okay when the number was small ...

will look forward to anything - and what you've shown so far is excellent