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The_Wise_Man
27-11-2004, 12:58 AM
Questions:

Is a Federation of State Associations the best way to administer chess in Australia?

Can we derive any benefits from restructuring the Federation into a National Body that controls all the states, juniors and correspondence chess?

What would be the disadvantages of such a restructure/system?

Garvinator
27-11-2004, 01:01 AM
oh dear, where is jammo when you need him :eek: :lol:

Kevin Bonham
27-11-2004, 01:14 AM
Question.

Is a round thing the best way to move objects, possibly carrying other objects, over the ground?

Can we derive any benefits from building lots of round things and making them into machines?

What would be the advantages/disadvantages of building lots of these things and calling them "wheels"? I can't believe no one ever had such a brilliant idea before.

This debate has been done to death over the past 5 years without much by way of result. Look up "ACF Commission", and if you've got anything constructive to say, then first talk the NSWCA into supporting it because otherwise you are wasting your breath.

Garvinator
27-11-2004, 01:23 AM
This debate has been done to death over the past 5 years without much by way of result. Look up "ACF Commission", and if you've got anything constructive to say, then first talk the NSWCA into supporting it because otherwise you are wasting your breath.
and as nswca is in favour of the current structure, all debate is pointless.

Alan Shore
27-11-2004, 04:55 PM
and as nswca is in favour of the current structure, all debate is pointless.

Translation: Arguing with Bill is an exercise in futility, even when you may be right ;)

PHAT
27-11-2004, 04:58 PM
and as nswca is in favour of the current structure, all debate is pointless.One day, not this year, the NSWCA council will be have a bunch of cooperative forward thinking officials run the show. Watch this space.

Bill Gletsos
27-11-2004, 05:13 PM
and as nswca is in favour of the current structure, all debate is pointless.
To be fair what you should have said was that NSW was in fvaour of the current structure over the commision structure.

Bill Gletsos
27-11-2004, 05:14 PM
One day, not this year, the NSWCA council will be have a bunch of cooperative forward thinking officials run the show. Watch this space.
One thing is for certain you wouldnt be one of them.

Kerry Stead
29-11-2004, 01:47 PM
and as nswca is in favour of the current structure, all debate is pointless.

Having said that, I was one of the few on the NSWCA council who liked the idea of the ACF commission. The majority of councillors preferred the existing structure for various reasons, and considered the introduction of 2 Vice Presidents as the best compromise.

arosar
29-11-2004, 01:55 PM
I wish somebody would just give us a powerpoint presentation of this Commission business. Ya know, pros and cons, etc, etc....

I can't think straight unless I'm looking at powerpoint bullet points.

AR

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2004, 02:13 PM
I wish somebody would just give us a powerpoint presentation of this Commission business. Ya know, pros and cons, etc, etc....

I can't think straight unless I'm looking at powerpoint bullet points.

AR
There is no point. As Kevin said its been done to death.
The majority of the NSWCA Council still dont support it.

shaun
29-11-2004, 02:40 PM
Having said that, I was one of the few on the NSWCA council who liked the idea of the ACF commission. The majority of councillors preferred the existing structure for various reasons, and considered the introduction of 2 Vice Presidents as the best compromise.

Kerry, when the idea of a direct membership ACF, with an elected board of 8 (4 executive and 4 non exective mebers) was first being floated, the entire voting power of the council rested in the hands of 7 state delegates. In an attempt to stave off the loss of control over the ACF, the various states have generally dealt with any new proposal in this area by adding extra voting members to the coucil. My question is, how many people get to vote on council now and who do they represent?
(This is a serious question as I have lost track of the new members over the years).

Trent Parker
29-11-2004, 02:59 PM
what thread should i read?????

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2004, 03:04 PM
Kerry, when the idea of a direct membership ACF, with an elected board of 8 (4 executive and 4 non exective mebers) was first being floated, the entire voting power of the council rested in the hands of 7 state delegates. In an attempt to stave off the loss of control over the ACF, the various states have generally dealt with any new proposal in this area by adding extra voting members to the coucil. My question is, how many people get to vote on council now and who do they represent?
(This is a serious question as I have lost track of the new members over the years).
There are currently 6 Executive positions with votes (Pres, Deputy Pres, 2* Vice Pres, Secretary and Treasurer), plus 8 state delegates. Of course if the motion at the national conference gets up to disaffiliate NT then the state delegates will be reduced to 7.
So currently 14 but could soon be 13 which in reality it has been since no NT rep has been at a ACF Council meeting for well over 18mths.

george
29-11-2004, 05:04 PM
Hi all,

There is one more position on Council which has speaking rights but no voting rights and only exists for 12 months - immediate Past President.

In between Council meetings the President with advice from Executive makes decisions but anyone on Council can ask for and usually get an Internet based vote on any issue.

Earlier this year we had a number of recission decisions and others put off to Internet Votes - this gives Council Members an opportunity to consult with their constituency or gives us a solution which cannot wait till the next quarterly ACF Council meetings.

On many ACF issues there is rigorous debate but ACF Council Meetings tend not to drag on because of prior Internet Discussions.

Regards
George Howard
President ACF

PHAT
29-11-2004, 05:14 PM
... and others put off to Internet Votes - this gives Council Members an opportunity to consult with their constituency ...

I would be interested in hearing from any ordinary NSWCA member who has been consulted over an ACF vote.

shaun
29-11-2004, 05:53 PM
I would be interested in hearing from any ordinary NSWCA member who has been consulted over an ACF vote.

As with all republics we don't get this luxury. We simply vote for others to speak for us.

Garvinator
29-11-2004, 06:01 PM
As with all republics we don't get this luxury. We simply vote for others to speak for us.
since when are we a republic :confused:

shaun
29-11-2004, 06:04 PM
since when are we a republic :confused:
Well we certainly aren't a democracy (where everyone gets a say in all decisions), although Australia could lay claim to being a kakocracy.

JGB
29-11-2004, 06:36 PM
Why not choose your own republic at...

http://www.republic.org.au/6models/index.htm

We could easily start a thread on the Republic issue, I am sure that would be pretty conversational topic around here.

Rincewind
29-11-2004, 06:43 PM
Well we certainly aren't a democracy (where everyone gets a say in all decisions), although Australia could lay claim to being a kakocracy.

My personal opinion is most western "democracies", Australia included, are in fact oligarchies. It always surprises me how much this appears so when I stop to think about it. Maybe it is just the way of things.

george
29-11-2004, 07:10 PM
Hi All,

The amount of consultation and timing thereof from Council Delegate to State/Territory home body and vice-versa is totally out of ACF Control.

ACF is a federation of State/Territory chess bodies which is totally accountable at the AGM and through their representatives at Council.

Exactly the sort of an elected representative and how he/she should vote was an interesting topic in Politics 1 , but I think a boring subject here.

Its up to each State/Territory to make their representative as accountable as they desire and as their membership demands!

Regards
George Howard

PHAT
29-11-2004, 08:12 PM
Sounds like the ACF executive is even less accountable for their actions than "the unrepresentitive swill" in the Federal Senate.

Garvinator
29-11-2004, 08:34 PM
Sounds like the ACF executive is even less accountable for their actions than "the unrepresentitive swill" in the Federal Senate.
wouldnt they be more accountable as it would be easier to toss them and on a more regular basis?

Denis_Jessop
29-11-2004, 09:12 PM
?ill Gletsos]There are currently 6 Executive positions with votes (Pres, Deputy Pres, 2* Vice Pres, Secretary and Treasurer), plus 7 state delegates. Of course if the motion at the national conference gets up to disaffiliate NT then the state delegates will be reduced to 6.
So currently 13 but could soon be 12 which in reality it has been since no NT rep has been at a ACF Council meeting for well over 18mths.[/QUOTE]

Oh Dear Bill! Just a little correction. There are currently 8 state delegates, that is 6 State and 2 Territory delegates, even though there is no appointed NT delegate as far as I know. If the NT goes, there will be 7. You forgot the powerhouse of Australian chess organisation, the ACT ;) :clap: :clap: :owned: :hmm:

Denis Jessop

shaun
29-11-2004, 09:32 PM
Sounds like the ACF executive is even less accountable for their actions than "the unrepresentitive swill" in the Federal Senate.

No, not really. I certainly would have no difficulty in speaking to just about any ACF council member at any time. Much harder to do that with anyone other than your local member in state/federal politics.

Garvinator
29-11-2004, 09:34 PM
No, not really. I certainly would have no difficulty in speaking to just about any ACF council member at any time. Much harder to do that with anyone other than your local member in state/federal politics.
and your acf council member might actually have a clue who you are ;) or at least know of what you have done for your state/territory :eek:

Bill Gletsos
29-11-2004, 10:19 PM
Oh Dear Bill! Just a little correction. There are currently 8 state delegates, that is 6 State and 2 Territory delegates, even though there is no appointed NT delegate as far as I know. If the NT goes, there will be 7. You forgot the powerhouse of Australian chess organisation, the ACT ;) :clap: :clap: :owned: :hmm:

Denis Jessop
No I remember counting it.
I'll correct my previous post.

arosar
01-12-2004, 03:00 PM
FMD!! George Howard is a "Beloved Leader"? I wonder if the unmentionable spent time as Mexican apparatchik for the Chinese Politburo.

Surely now we can talk about the unmentionable. He's running for office after all.

AR

PHAT
01-12-2004, 04:26 PM
Surely now we can talk about the unmentionable. He's running for office after all.

AR

You always could - just don't defame him and do not post material on his behalf.