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Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 04:30 AM
Are you created in God's image?

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
¯ Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Scriptures tell us to be like God and emulate all he does as we are to follow in his footsteps.

If you are a Christian, are you capable of following your God?

Would you be able and willing to do some of the things the bible shows God doing?

Are you created in God’s image?

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 08:55 AM
The short answer is yes. As far as doing notable deeds is concerned (e.g. being used in healing) this requires God's enabling and our faith.

MichaelBaron
09-10-2014, 09:57 AM
Given that different religions portray ''God'' differently and that God has ''spiritual'' presence in our lives rather than a ''physical'' one - not sure.

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 10:15 AM
The short answer is yes. As far as doing notable deeds is concerned (e.g. being used in healing) this requires God's enabling and our faith.

You do remember the story of Kind David I hope.

If like your God then you to could torture a baby for 6 days before killing it, could you?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 10:17 AM
Given that different religions portray ''God'' differently and that God has ''spiritual'' presence in our lives rather than a ''physical'' one - not sure.

Do you really want the God described having something to do with your life?

What kind of spirituality would come from such a God? Satanic spirituality?

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 08:32 PM
You do remember the story of Kind David I hope.

If like your God then you to could torture a baby for 6 days before killing it, could you?

Regards
DLDavid sincerely repented of his sins (including rape and murder) and God forgave him.

Desmond
09-10-2014, 08:38 PM
David sincerely repented of his sins (including rape and murder) and God forgave him.
What a guy.

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 08:41 PM
David sincerely repented of his sins (including rape and murder) and God forgave him.

Yes but after killing an innocent baby.

My question stands. Why did you not answer it?

Regards
DL

antichrist
09-10-2014, 08:42 PM
What a guy.

what about my cousin then who got 18 years for that truck crash accident, he had only been driving for about 23 hours with a short break, blame his bosses not him

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 08:45 PM
What a guy.

It a question of faith versus reason.

Faith is a way for some to quit using their "God given" power of reason and logic, so they will believe doctrines that moral men reject as immoral.

The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can believers reason with God when they throw away reason?

Religions, especially Christianity reply.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our friend that he is wrong through his faith colored glasses. That faith also plugs the ears.

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 08:55 PM
If like your God then you to could torture a baby for 6 days before killing it, could you?

Regards
DLNope. I am certain I would never do any such thing. It would be contrary to God's laws, not to mention the laws of the land.

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 09:19 PM
Nope. I am certain I would never do any such thing. It would be contrary to God's laws, not to mention the laws of the land.

How can it be breaking God's law when he did it?

As above so below.

Would you as a citizen live in a system where a lawmaker could break his own law with impunity.

If you could not do as your God does then he would condemn you as you place your own desires above his.

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 09:30 PM
How can it be breaking God's law when he did it?

As above so below.

Would you as a citizen live in a system where a lawmaker could break his own law with impunity.

If you could not do as your God does then he would condemn you as you place your own desires above his.

Regards
DLDon't understand. Not done by God. Humans have free will and can choose to go God's way (do right things) or do wrong things (or morally anyway, nothing). If they sin, and no repentance, then they may pay the consequences - spiritual death and after physical death, hell.

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 09:41 PM
Don't understand. Not done by God. Humans have free will and can choose to go God's way (do right things) or do wrong things (or morally anyway, nothing). If they sin, and no repentance, then they may pay the consequences - spiritual death and after physical death, hell.

So now you just deny what you accepted above.

Thanks Christian.

Again you run from even looking at the vile morality you follow.

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 09:43 PM
?? What did I accept related to my last post? I find it hard to conduct a rational discussion with you so I doubt I will bother further.

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 09:48 PM
?? What did I accept related to my last post? I find it hard to conduct a rational discussion with you so I doubt I will bother further.

You are so busy running you do not even know what you are saying.

Get thee behind me Satan.

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 10:10 PM
Ignoring your insults, you seem to be blaming God for the wrong choices made by people, e.g. King David. That just does not follow. Ever heard of free will?

Gnostic Bishop
09-10-2014, 10:14 PM
Ignoring your insults, you seem to be blaming God for the wrong choices made by people, e.g. King David. That just does not follow. Ever heard of free will?

Another deflection.

I do not blame God for what David did. I blame him for punishing an innocent baby. That is the issue you run from.

[snip-mod]

Regards
DL

Adamski
09-10-2014, 10:23 PM
Again, God did not punish the baby. That was David's wrong choice. BTW that baby will be in heaven as I believe will all babies that die young, including before conception (i.e. the victims of abortion).

Kevin Bonham
09-10-2014, 10:24 PM
Moderation Notice

Final warning to GB to avoid unnecessary unprovoked rudeness when dealing with regular posters here. Next such case will result in a substantial ban.

MichaelBaron
09-10-2014, 11:08 PM
Do you really want the God described having something to do with your life?

What kind of spirituality would come from such a God? Satanic spirituality?

Regards
DL

As I believe in God, but not follow a particular religion - I see God as a ''higher power'' that influences our lives and the environment.

jammo
09-10-2014, 11:09 PM
Again, God did not punish the baby. That was David's wrong choice. BTW that baby will be in heaven as I believe will all babies that die young, including before conception (i.e. the victims of abortion).

An interesting belief. I wonder if you have thought it through? What for instance do you imagine these unborn babies will do in heaven? Does God create new wombs for them to live in perhaps?
I wonder also what is your cut-off point for when an unborn "baby" is not a baby and misses out on its trip to heaven? 1 hour after conception? A day, week or month? Please let me know.

Adamski
09-10-2014, 11:35 PM
An interesting belief. I wonder if you have thought it through? What for instance do you imagine these unborn babies will do in heaven? Does God create new wombs for them to live in perhaps?
I wonder also what is your cut-off point for when an unborn "baby" is not a baby and misses out on its trip to heaven? 1 hour after conception? A day, week or month? Please let me know.I doubt they will be babies in heaven. All there will look diferent.
No cut-off re time - except for unconfessed (and therefore unforgiven) sin committed. Lack of repentance at older ages is the issue.

antichrist
09-10-2014, 11:48 PM
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/10/09/hillsong-pastor--dreaded--confronting-dad.html?cid=BP_RSS_sn-topstories_4_hillsong-pastor--dreaded--confronting-dad_091014

these guys seem to think they were created in God's image or actually create God's image for it

Kevin Bonham
10-10-2014, 01:01 AM
Again, God did not punish the baby. That was David's wrong choice. BTW that baby will be in heaven as I believe will all babies that die young, including before conception (i.e. the victims of abortion).

Heaven sounds even worse now if it has so many babies in it.

I can see the PR ads for the other side now ... "Unwind in Hell, where you will never hear a baby scream again!"

MichaelBaron
10-10-2014, 01:55 AM
What heaven and hell have in common - is that none of those who visited ''one of those two'' have ever returned to tell us what its like over there :). So how do we know who goes where? :)

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 03:39 AM
An interesting belief. I wonder if you have thought it through?
Much more than you're capable of, evidently.


What for instance do you imagine these unborn babies will do in heaven? Does God create new wombs for them to live in perhaps?
Rather limited imagination, like most atheopaths. It would be no trouble to give them adult minds, just as He created Adam and Eve with adult minds that could communicate and make moral choices (as Adamski implies as well). Heaven is an intermediate state anyway; the final state is resurrected bodies in the New Earth under the New Heavens. The indication is that they will have no physical defects or genetic mutations. Once one believes in a God who can resurrect the dead, it is trivial to believe that He can restore to pristine physical condition and maturity.


I wonder also what is your cut-off point for when an unborn "baby" is not a baby and misses out on its trip to heaven? 1 hour after conception? A day, week or month? Please let me know.
No cut-off (as Adamski says). Conception/fertlization is the scientific beginning of new life. [I presume from the context Adamski meant "before birth", so any time after conception.]

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 03:43 AM
What a guy. [David]
The Bible, unlike contemporary records of kings in the middle east, doesn't hide the faults of even its heroes.

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 03:56 AM
what about my cousin then who got 18 years for that truck crash accident, he had only been driving for about 23 hours with a short break, blame his bosses not him

As I replied on another thread:


Sorry that it's someone you know, but all the same, he killed three people and he was driving while drugged up with methodone, he had falsified his driving records, and the truck's speed-limiting had been disabled. It's like driving while drunk—the courts must send a message that this is so serious that it deserves harsh punishment.

This one? Truck driver Vincent George sentenced to 17 years' jail over crash that killed three people at Menangle (https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24975730/truck-driver-vincent-george-sentenced-to-17-years-jail-over-crash-that-killed-three-people-at-menangle/)
ABC, 12 September 2014

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:00 AM
?? What did I accept related to my last post? I find it hard to conduct a rational discussion with you so I doubt I will bother further.

Rational is what you are running from. If you answered honestly you would not get confused.

"Nope. I am certain I would never do any such thing. It would be contrary to God's laws, not to mention the laws of the land."

We are talking about torturing a baby for six days the way your God dis with King David's baby.

If contrary to God's law, what is God doing breaking his law?

If he is allowed to, and we are to follow his every lead, then we too can break his law. Right?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:03 AM
Again, God did not punish the baby. That was David's wrong choice. BTW that baby will be in heaven as I believe will all babies that die young, including before conception (i.e. the victims of abortion).

So torturing a baby for 6 days is not punishment.

Thanks for showing us all your good Christian morals.

I sure hope you are not a parent.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:05 AM
Moderation Notice

Final warning to GB to avoid unnecessary unprovoked rudeness when dealing with regular posters here. Next such case will result in a substantial ban.

Apologies.

It happens that I do not like those who do not think that torturing a baby is evil.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:07 AM
As I believe in God, but not follow a particular religion - I see God as a ''higher power'' that influences our lives and the environment.

Like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 04:07 AM
Are you created in God’s image?
In a forthcoming work, I explain this as follows [footnotes omitted]:


Mankind made in the image and likeness of God

This seems like a strange thing to say, since God is invisible. But it’s vital to understand, since this is the important distinction between man and animals. McKeown explains:


The corollary of this is that God can have a closer relationship with humans than with the animals. To put it another way, if God was to appear on earth, it would be inconceivable for him to appear as an animal but perfectly appropriate for him to appear in human form.

Also, this phrasing singles out humans as special creations of God. Systematic theologian Wayne Grudem summarizes:


When God says, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (Genesis 1:26), the meaning is that God plans to make a creature similar to himself. Both the Hebrew word for ‘image’ (tselem) and the Hebrew word for ‘likeness’ (demût) refer to something that is similar but not identical to the thing it represents or is an ‘image’ of.

Indeed, we are similar but not identical to God. We are similar in that we share God’s communicable attributes such as reason, love, will, discernment, morality, and language. We are not identical since we are creatures, so could never share God’s incommunicable attributes such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, and self-existence. Leupold writes:


It will hardly be safe to say that the body of man is also patterned after God, because God, being an incorporeal spirit, cannot have what we term a material body. Yet the body of man must at least be regarded as the fittest receptacle for man’s spirit and so must bear at least an analogy to the image, of God, an analogy that is so close that God and His angels choose to appear in human form when they appear to men …).

Leupold goes on to point out how this also forms the basis for anthropomorphic language about God, although God is non-corporeal.

Importance of the divine image in man

This image and likeness is a distinguishing feature of mankind. Other parts of the Bible refer to this teaching to teach the sanctity of innocent human life and the need to treat humans well. E.g. in Genesis 9:6, God forbids murder and ordains the death penalty for it, precisely “for God made man in his own image.” And James warns of the danger of the tongue, precisely because it can “curse people who are made in the likeness of God.” Thus the imago dei (image of God) was never lost at the Fall, just marred.

“In our image”

“In our image” is one compound Hebrew word bətsalmenû בצלמנו—from tselem צלם, ‘image’ (BDB). This word indeed means an imitation. It can refer to imitations both of God and of idols (Numbers 33:52, 1 Samuel 6:5,11, 2 Kings 11:18, 2 Chronicles 23:17, Ezekiel 7:20, 16:17, 23:14, Amos 5:26). Sometimes tselem is very much a lesser imitation, e.g. the word is more clearly used of something that is similar but lesser, such as, “Surely a man goes about as a shadow/phantom” (tselem—Psalm 39:6); “Like a dream when one awakes, O Lord, when you rouse yourself, you despise them as phantoms” (tselem—Psalm 73:20).

There is also a connotation in the ancient world that the ‘image’ was a representative. Even in the NT, there is a clear example of this. When the Pharisees and Herodians try to trick Jesus about taxes (Matthew 22:15–22, Mark 12:13–17, Luke 20:20–36), Jesus demanded to see a coin and asked whose image or likeness (eikōn εἰκών) this was. They said “Caesar’s”. So Jesus replied: “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”. The point was that since the coin bore Caesar’s image, it was his representative to some extent so belonged to him. But Jesus didn’t stop there. Just as coins belong to Caesar because they bear his image, so must man belong to God because he bears God’s image. Hence Jesus famously added, “and [render] to God the things that are God’s.”

Nolland explains:


In the present, proper humility before God requires the payment of Roman taxes, but if it is true that some of one’s money should go to the Caesar, it is so much more true that all that one is needs to be handed over to the God in whose image one is made.

But if man didn’t have the image of God but instead the image of apes, Jesus’ whole argument would collapse. At best, theistic evolutionists resort to a deus ex machina explanation of God selecting an ape or one of the humanoids living at the time and implanting some sort of image. But such explanations both butcher the text and fail to impress the very evolutionary establishment they are intended to appease.

“After our likeness”

This is a synonym to “in our image”, and is also one compound word in Hebrew: kidmûtênû כדמותנו, from dəmûṯ דמות, ‘model’ or ‘copy’, or ‘likeness, similitude’ (BDB). This word is even used of the theophany (visible manifestation of God) to Ezekiel (Ezekiel 1:5,13,16,22,26,28; 8:2; 10:21,22).



It a question of faith versus reason.
No it's not. Biblical faith is not contrasted with reason or logic but with sight. Rather, logical reasoning is encouraged, and indeed Jesus Christ is called the logos. See Loving God with all your mind: logic and creation (http://creation.com/loving-god-with-all-your-mind-logic-and-creation).

The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can believers reason with God when they throw away reason?
Duh, that very citation shows that believers are should embrace reason not throw it away. Evidently GnB is so irrational that he doesn't even realize that his own citations wreck his case.


“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther
Original citation? Luther was very pro-reasoning and adept at it. His famous debate with Erasmus, The Bondage of the Will, was full of logical reasoning. He objected to that which is falsely called reason, i.e. reason in scare quotes.


Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
OK, so we should not take anything that this non-chessplaying interloper says literally either, and treat everything he posts as a myth. Suits me.

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 04:11 AM
It happens that I do not like those who do not think that torturing a baby is evil.

Good. So you must logically disapprove of what goes on in abortion mills, where some babies are developed enough to feel pain but are tortured by being sucked into little pieces (which are then reassembled outside the womb to make sure they got everything) or scalded with salt solution so strong that it "burns".

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:19 AM
C F

" just as He created Adam and Eve with adult minds that could communicate and make moral choices."

Would an adult mind know if he or she was naked? A & E could not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge says your scripture?

Explain also for us how they could make moral choices when God himself says that they could only do so after their eyes were opened after they ate of the tree of knowledge.

I think you put the cart before the horse.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
10-10-2014, 04:28 AM
Good. So you must logically disapprove of what goes on in abortion mills, where some babies are developed enough to feel pain but are tortured by being sucked into little pieces (which are then reassembled outside the womb to make sure they got everything) or scalded with salt solution so strong that it "burns".

Compare that to your God killing boys and girls that are already born and whose lives he chose to take just to show he could after hardening Pharaoh's soft heart that was ready to let the people go.

That is premeditated murder. Or do you call that something else?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyFM0_AhIYA&list=PLECD9ACF9D6F1F8FF

Regards
DL

Adamski
10-10-2014, 07:51 AM
GnB, the Bible does not say that Pharaoh had a soft heart that was willing to let the people of Israel go. If so, Pharaoh would have done so before God hardened his heart. Pharaoh wanted his Israelite slaves.

With a number of your comments it seems that the ideas of confession of sins and repentance hold no weight with you. The New Testament says, as one example of many, in 1 John 1:9 that if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 08:10 AM
just as He created Adam and Eve with adult minds that could communicate and make moral choices.

Would an adult mind know if he or she was naked? A & E could not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge says your scripture?
Crap: "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." Genesis 2:25, before the Fall in case you didn't realize given your biblical illiteracy. In a sinless world, public nakedness was not shameful.


Explain also for us how they could make moral choices when God himself says that they could only do so after their eyes were opened after they ate of the tree of knowledge.
Long ago answered by decent Genesis commentaries, and it was specifically ‘ēts haddā’at tôv vara’, literally “the tree of the knowing of good and evil” . Basically, “good and evil” is another merism, two opposites standing for the whole range in between (see also ‘Heavens and earth’, Ch. 4). There are other examples of this merism in the OT, e.g. “we cannot speak to you bad or good” (Genesis 24:50); God warning Laban, “Be careful not to say anything to Jacob, either good or bad” (Genesis 31:24), David was “like the angel of God to discern good and evil” (2 Samuel 14:17).

The “knowledge of good and evil” means the ability to determine what is right and wrong. That is, right and wrong is decided by God, and man is forbidden to decide for himself apart from God. Indeed, this characterizes the lawless period of the Judges, with the repeated refrain, “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.” Adam and Eve made a bad moral choice to disobey, so choice was possible. After the wrong choice, the problem was that they had taken upon themselves this godlike privilege of deciding right from wrong.

MichaelBaron
10-10-2014, 09:41 AM
I am in full agreement with Bible, Torah and Quaran. I think we should not blame religions for wrongdoings of those who claim to be the ''followers''

jammo
10-10-2014, 10:51 AM
I doubt they will be babies in heaven. All there will look diferent.
No cut-off re time - except for unconfessed (and therefore unforgiven) sin committed. Lack of repentance at older ages is the issue.

Ok. Let's see if I've got this right. A 1 day old embryo that dies will go to heaven, but not as a baby, it will be transformed into a fully grown human?
So if God does not want babies in heaven, what is his cut-off point? Does he let teenagers in for instance … or is heaven just full of adults? Not sure whether God defines adults as being over 21 or over 18 … perhaps you can enlighten me?

antichrist
10-10-2014, 11:16 AM
What heaven and hell have in common - is that none of those who visited ''one of those two'' have ever returned to tell us what its like over there :). So how do we know who goes where? :)

no joking those words are quite similar to a Leon Berger song circa 1976 called When I Pass Away but not yet on youtube

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 12:14 PM
What heaven and hell have in common - is that none of those who visited ''one of those two'' have ever returned to tell us what its like over there :). So how do we know who goes where? :)

Jesus did. There are at least 17 factors that meant Christianity could not have succeeded in the ancient world, unless it were backed up with irrefutable proof of the Resurrection, as shown by Holding, J.P., The Impossible Faith (http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.php), Xulon Press, Florida, USA, 2007.

antichrist
10-10-2014, 12:41 PM
this thread has become a free-for-all for of front row forwards all fighting for position

MichaelBaron
10-10-2014, 06:14 PM
this thread has become a free-for-all for of front row forwards all fighting for position

Thats a pity - would be good to keep ''personal relationships'' out of it and stick to the topic :)

Adamski
10-10-2014, 06:18 PM
Ok. Let's see if I've got this right. A 1 day old embryo that dies will go to heaven, but not as a baby, it will be transformed into a fully grown human?
So if God does not want babies in heaven, what is his cut-off point? Does he let teenagers in for instance … or is heaven just full of adults? Not sure whether God defines adults as being over 21 or over 18 … perhaps you can enlighten me?The Bible does not tell us how "old" people will be in heaven. It is quite conceivable that babies, at the commencement of their eternal life after Jesus returns, could indeed be adults. Teens who have truly repented will be there too, not necessarily as teens. In eternity, age does not have a lot of meaning.

Kevin Bonham
10-10-2014, 06:52 PM
Jesus did. There are at least 17 factors that meant Christianity could not have succeeded in the ancient world, unless it were backed up with irrefutable proof of the Resurrection, as shown by Holding, J.P., The Impossible Faith (http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.php), Xulon Press, Florida, USA, 2007.

As I pointed out when you posted that link in 2007, and again in 2009:

Many of these seem to assume that it is natural for the religious mind to operate logically, to seek to worship what is already accepted, and to shun things considered senseless by the social standards of the day.

Yet all manner of cults over the ages show us that the religious mind in the early stages of cult formation often operates in much the reverse way to this, and that having "every possible disadvantage" is quite often an advantage.

Desmond
10-10-2014, 06:56 PM
The Bible does not tell us how "old" people will be in heaven. It is quite conceivable that babies, at the commencement of their eternal life after Jesus returns, could indeed be adults. Teens who have truly repented will be there too, not necessarily as teens. In eternity, age does not have a lot of meaning.What about ectopic pregnancies or other embroys that do not implant in the uterine cavity, are they to be harp players too?

Adamski
10-10-2014, 10:40 PM
What about ectopic pregnancies or other embroys that do not implant in the uterine cavity, are they to be harp players too?Yes they will definitely be in heaven, though I doubt much if any harp playing by humans will occur!

MichaelBaron
10-10-2014, 11:15 PM
Yes they will definitely be in heaven, though I doubt much if any harp playing by humans will occur!

How can wee know for sure who will be in heaven and who will not?

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2014, 11:28 PM
What about ectopic pregnancies or other embroys that do not implant in the uterine cavity, are they to be harp players too?

This makes no difference; Adamski and I have already explained that life begins at conception, so these are just other ways where they can sadly lose their lives. There is no moral culpability for such unavoidable loss.

Desmond
11-10-2014, 09:23 AM
This makes no difference; Adamski and I have already explained that life begins at conception, so these are just other ways where they can sadly lose their lives. There is no moral culpability for such unavoidable loss.
I would have thought that those aspiring to spend their time in heaven would hope to retain their personality, thoughts, memories, relationships, dreams, accomplishments etc and I wonder what will be retained by the ectopic "life".

Gnostic Bishop
11-10-2014, 09:32 AM
GnB, the Bible does not say that Pharaoh had a soft heart that was willing to let the people of Israel go. If so, Pharaoh would have done so before God hardened his heart. Pharaoh wanted his Israelite slaves.

Then what was gained by hardening an already hardened heart?
Your answer makes no sense whatsoever.

Exodus 7:3-13: And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.


With a number of your comments it seems that the ideas of confession of sins and repentance hold no weight with you. The New Testament says, as one example of many, in 1 John 1:9 that if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Sure but is God really just?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
11-10-2014, 09:38 AM
Crap: "And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." Genesis 2:25, before the Fall in case you didn't realize given your biblical illiteracy. In a sinless world, public nakedness was not shameful.

Correct but now A & E knew not to parade in front of God naked as they now knew what being naked was all about.



Long ago answered by decent Genesis commentaries, and it was specifically ‘ēts haddā’at tôv vara’, literally “the tree of the knowing of good and evil” . Basically, “good and evil” is another merism, two opposites standing for the whole range in between (see also ‘Heavens and earth’, Ch. 4). There are other examples of this merism in the OT, e.g. “we cannot speak to you bad or good” (Genesis 24:50); God warning Laban, “Be careful not to say anything to Jacob, either good or bad” (Genesis 31:24), David was “like the angel of God to discern good and evil” (2 Samuel 14:17).

The “knowledge of good and evil” means the ability to determine what is right and wrong. That is, right and wrong is decided by God, and man is forbidden to decide for himself apart from God. Indeed, this characterizes the lawless period of the Judges, with the repeated refrain, “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.” Adam and Eve made a bad moral choice to disobey, so choice was possible. After the wrong choice, the problem was that they had taken upon themselves this godlike privilege of deciding right from wrong.


IOW, they developed a moral sense. Their eyes were opened.

Do you think man is better off without a moral sense and his eyes closed?

Would you like your moral sense to somehow disappear?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
11-10-2014, 09:45 AM
The Bible does not tell us how "old" people will be in heaven. It is quite conceivable that babies, at the commencement of their eternal life after Jesus returns, could indeed be adults. Teens who have truly repented will be there too, not necessarily as teens. In eternity, age does not have a lot of meaning.

Not well thought out at all.

You are an adult with a mature consciousness that is made up of memories that have formed your character over time.

If God matures childish consciousness, what doe he do, make up a bunch of false memories and implant them into that childish consciousness?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
11-10-2014, 09:59 AM
This speaks of the culpability of God in the murder of Jesus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related


Regards
DL

Capablanca-Fan
11-10-2014, 12:17 PM
Not well thought out at all.

You are an adult with a mature consciousness that is made up of memories that have formed your character over time.

If God matures childish consciousness, what doe he do, make up a bunch of false memories and implant them into that childish consciousness?
Where do you get your dopey ideas from? God created Adam and Eve with language and adult reasoning capabilities without any false memories. If you are going to attack the biblical world view, then don't ignore aspects that answer your silly attacks.

Gnostic Bishop
11-10-2014, 01:25 PM
Where do you get your dopey ideas from? God created Adam and Eve with language and adult reasoning capabilities without any false memories. If you are going to attack the biblical world view, then don't ignore aspects that answer your silly attacks.

Adult reasoning knows when their eyes are closed and when they are naked.

Adult reasoning also knows how to read a story and know what is being said of the various characters.

Learn how to read.

If they were adults, why did they not reproduce in Gen 1 when commanded to and did not until way over in Gen 3.

Knock yourself out silly.

Regards
DL

Adamski
11-10-2014, 02:52 PM
Genesis 3 is not long after Genesis 1. The command to be fruitful and multiply did not need to be fulfilled on the spot!

Capablanca-Fan
12-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Adult reasoning knows when their eyes are closed and when they are naked.
I already told you: they did know they were naked but were not ashamed.


Adult reasoning also knows how to read a story and know what is being said of the various characters.
So try it some time, child.


If they were adults, why did they not reproduce in Gen 1 when commanded to and did not until way over in Gen 3.
Because there was very little time between them, as I explained in Why Bible history matters (and the timing of the Fall and Ark-building) (http://creation.com/bible-history-fall-ark).

Gnostic Bishop
22-10-2014, 04:45 AM
Genesis 3 is not long after Genesis 1. The command to be fruitful and multiply did not need to be fulfilled on the spot!

Strange then that God was real quick on the second infraction while ignoring the first. That is quite inconsistent of God.

You ignore that they could not reproduce before eating of the tree of knowledge as they were too stupid to know they were naked and thus could not reproduce till after God punished them for becomi8ng brighter than the bricks he wanted them to remain.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
22-10-2014, 04:48 AM
I already told you: they did know they were naked but were not ashamed.


So try it some time, child.


Because there was very little time between them, as I explained in Why Bible history matters (and the timing of the Fall and Ark-building) (http://creation.com/bible-history-fall-ark).

There is no worthy history in a book of myths.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Literalism is death to any God and the brain of those who read that way.

Regards
DL