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Gnostic Bishop
24-09-2014, 12:04 AM
Is rebellion good? Think Rosa Parks and Satan, our Lady and Mistress.

Matthew 10: 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Michael+Angelo's+Eden+Vatican+collection&biw=1014&bih=519&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9CYXVPXsKI-VjALRvYC4Cw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ


Both of the females named, Satan and Rosa Parks, are just two of many examples that show where rebellion has improved humanity and can be used to fight evil.

They would have liked this fast marching tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STiuregSvHg


Is raising hell a good idea?

=================================

To women.

If raising hell is a good idea, why are you sitting on your hands and not being the good citizen you should be in terms of pushing for equality?

You are the majority.

Has the shame that your despicable religion wrongly created in you killed your pride?

Hell, we have a Gay Pride Parade and they are a minute percentage of the population.

How about a Woman Pride Parade? Or can you not muster your fellow oppressed?

Or are you, --- analogically speaking, --- waiting for the white men at the cool front of the bus to politely ask you to change seats with them?
=============================
=============================

To men of the Abrahamic cults. Christians, Catholics and Muslims.

Remember what God said. “He shall rule over you”.

Why are you men not ruling properly and allowing your charges to shirk their duty to society in not demanding equality?

Why are you sitting on your hands? Should a ruler not rule and order a just thing?

He shall rule over you says that you are ultimately responsible for your wife’s shirking of her duty.

Do get busy all of you Abrahamic men. Christians, Catholics and Muslims.

Justice says that equality is overdue thanks to your lazy wives. Raise a little hell on her but -tock, politically speaking, that is.

It is your duty to society and especially to your fellow men. Women have been our burden long enough. Screw God. Let us give women their due.

========================================

To all.

Change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

My friends.

Religion came for our women a long time ago and still has them as captive to barbaric immoral non-equality thinking.

Should we not try to get them back?

Regards
DL

antichrist
24-09-2014, 05:14 PM
When seeing woodcuts of the Inquisition and how they tortured women, especially lesbians, I came to the conclusion that the Catholic priesthood may have dominated by women-hating Gays - am I allowed to say that? Just reporting my honest opinion.

Rincewind
24-09-2014, 11:25 PM
women-hating Gays

I've never encountered a "woman-hating gay". Misogynists are typically heterosexual.

Gnostic Bishop
24-09-2014, 11:25 PM
When seeing woodcuts of the Inquisition and how they tortured women, especially lesbians, I came to the conclusion that the Catholic priesthood may have dominated by women-hating Gays - am I allowed to say that? Just reporting my honest opinion.

You are allowed as Christianity no longer can do what they would like to do to those of our ilk who opine freely.

As a Gnostic Christian I recognize their crimes against freedom of thought. Their murdering of the founders of my religion and the burning of our scriptures and myths has locked that into me.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
24-09-2014, 11:29 PM
I've never encountered a "woman-hating gay". Misogynists are typically heterosexual.

I think you might be right. If there are exceptions they will be few.

Gay men love women, so to speak, as their characters are closer to their own than to that of men. Pure opinion this as I have no documentation. I do have personal experience though.

Regards
DL

antichrist
26-09-2014, 08:27 AM
I think you might be right. If there are exceptions they will be few.

Gay men love women, so to speak, as their characters are closer to their own than to that of men. Pure opinion this as I have no documentation. I do have personal experience though.

Regards
DL

Sometimes there is competition between the homosexual/gay and the woman as to who can catch the hunk - there are nasty and jealous ones on both sides of the competition. Re woman-hating gay priests - during the Inquisition how could they have women sawn in half beginning at the vagina if they did not hate women? How could they have women impaled on the witches chair (the woman being suspended in the air by ropes being spiked in the vagina by her own bodyweight - if they did not hate women? Were they any different to anti-female Muslim fanatics of these days? Actually they are worse because the Muslim fanatics do have children and share a family life with women whereas the only contact the priest would have was hearing their confession before burning them at the stake.

Gnostic Bishop
30-09-2014, 07:26 AM
Sometimes there is competition between the homosexual/gay and the woman as to who can catch the hunk - there are nasty and jealous ones on both sides of the competition. Re woman-hating gay priests - during the Inquisition how could they have women sawn in half beginning at the vagina if they did not hate women? How could they have women impaled on the witches chair (the woman being suspended in the air by ropes being spiked in the vagina by her own bodyweight - if they did not hate women? Were they any different to anti-female Muslim fanatics of these days? Actually they are worse because the Muslim fanatics do have children and share a family life with women whereas the only contact the priest would have was hearing their confession before burning them at the stake.

Yes indeed. The good old days of Christianity. The un-corruptible corrupted by power. Oh my.

Given the power today, Christianity would likely do the same. There is nothing new to Christianity under the sun. It has not changed and should die.

Regards
DL
.

Rincewind
30-09-2014, 11:27 AM
Re woman-hating gay priests - during the Inquisition how could they have women sawn in half beginning at the vagina if they did not hate women? How could they have women impaled on the witches chair (the woman being suspended in the air by ropes being spiked in the vagina by her own bodyweight - if they did not hate women?

Just a couple of questions. What extent were these tortures practiced by homosexual members of the clergy? I would say they were very rare at best and probably apocryphal. Secondly there is no evidence that those who thought of them, decided that they be used or carried out these executions were homosexual. Your whole line of argument is complete speculation and sounds like it has been based on a sensational account of the inquisition and fueled by your own morbid fascination with the subject matter.

antichrist
30-09-2014, 06:07 PM
Just a couple of questions. What extent were these tortures practiced by homosexual members of the clergy? I would say they were very rare at best and probably apocryphal. Secondly there is no evidence that those who thought of them, decided that they be used or carried out these executions were homosexual. Your whole line of argument is complete speculation and sounds like it has been based on a sensational account of the inquisition and fueled by your own morbid fascination with the subject matter.

By Jove you should be charging me for that psycho analysis. With the majority of gays still in the cupboard 500 years later, in spite of current anti discrimination laws, who could say that those priests were or were not homosexual. We have had current cases of gays sabotaging their own for being gay, there was one famous case years ago that I can't remember exact details, so the sabotager was outed in revenge. That taught him aye?

Note that the Inquisition and persecutions only occurred only after Catholic priests were forced to be celebrate, therefore knocking a lot of straight guys out of contention. It would be much more beneficial to conduct your psycho analysis of those woman-celebrate types than of a too-much married guy like myself (ha ha) . I should have been a sociologist. I did consult a few academics at the time of learning of, 20 years ago, and they tended to agree with my conclusion or were willing to entertain such.

I assure what I have morbid fascination looks a lot more like Queen Serena than Michael Kirby. A hot blooded Lebo like myself knows what to do with the ladies, they are precious.

Rincewind
30-09-2014, 06:12 PM
By Jove you should be charging me for that psycho analysis. With the majority of gays still in the cupboard 500 years later, in spite of current anti discrimination laws, who could say that those priests were or were not homosexual. We have had current cases of gays sabotaging their own for being gay, there was one famous case years ago that I can't remember exact details, so the sabotager was outed in revenge. That taught him aye?

Note that the Inquisition and persecutions only occurred only after Catholic priests were forced to be celebrate, therefore knocking a lot of straight guys out of contention. It would be much more beneficial to conduct your psycho analysis of those woman-celebrate types than of a too-much married guy like myself (ha ha) . I should have been a sociologist. I did consult a few academics at the time of learning of, 20 years ago, and they tended to agree with my conclusion or were willing to entertain such.

I assure what I have morbid fascination looks a lot more like Queen Serena than Michael Kirby. A hot blooded Lebo like myself knows what to do with the ladies, they are precious.

So in other words you have no evidence that any of the practices your described took place to any significant degree. Nor do you have any evidence that anyone who may have been involved in the planning or execution of these tortures were gay.

Good job. In thermodynamics absolute zero is a difficult goal. But you seem to have managed it with evidence for your argument.

antichrist
30-09-2014, 06:48 PM
So in other words you have no evidence that any of the practices your described took place to any significant degree. Nor do you have any evidence that anyone who may have been involved in the planning or execution of these tortures were gay.

Good job. In thermodynamics absolute zero is a difficult goal. But you seem to have managed it with evidence for your argument.

Well in one of these threads began by Gnostic Bishop s/he suggested that gay bashing was probably done by those who had gay urges, do they call it Reverse Psychology? We know from WW2 in Europe that some Jews dobbed in other Jews to save themselves. The only group in society that I can imagine that some would not have an interest in women or find them repulsive could be gays. Some Muslims do believe in stoning adulterous women to death but that is more complicated and there are other issues involved.

Don't you know that is often by speculation like mine that sets off serious studies - somebody has to have the hunch to see maybe a pattern.

And I am surprised that you apply physics scientific expressions to describe social issues - talk about comparing Serena and Mike Kirby

Rincewind
30-09-2014, 06:57 PM
And I am surprised that you apply physics scientific expressions to describe social issues - talk about comparing Serena and Mike Kirby

The question was basically one of history and what I was after was some modicum of historical evidence for the behaviour you were claiming:
(a) existed at all to any significant degree
(b) was practiced by people who were likely gay

At present you have not one iota of evidence to your name.

This goes beyond speculation and probably more to do with your own morbid fascination with torturing women than any historical atrocities committed by the church.

antichrist
30-09-2014, 08:17 PM
The question was basically one of history and what I was after was some modicum of historical evidence for the behaviour you were claiming:
(a) existed at all to any significant degree
(b) was practiced by people who were likely gay

At present you have not one iota of evidence to your name.

This goes beyond speculation and probably more to do with your own morbid fascination with torturing women than any historical atrocities committed by the church.

The question has to be asked as to what evidence could there possibly be after all these years and when to admit to such at that time could get your waterworks cut out? There is a famous book called something like Superstition Through The Ages written by a Catholic Monsignor, (Jean Mesler maybe) but hid by him and only released well after his death. The guy was a full blown atheist and here he was masquerading as a priest for decades, well the same could go for gays. Even in Queen Victoria's time, hundreds of years later there was denial that the lesbian species even existed! That is why there were no laws against lesbians but there is against homosexuals.

You mention my morbid fascination with torturing women, strewth I thought my kinky side was a secret.

Rincewind
01-10-2014, 02:04 AM
The question has to be asked as to what evidence could there possibly be after all these years and when to admit to such at that time could get your waterworks cut out?

Length of time does not give you license for complete speculation. This entire thread is you fabricating one story then then fabricating a second one to try and justify the first. The epitome of nonsense on stilts.

antichrist
01-10-2014, 09:55 AM
Length of time does not give you license for complete speculation. This entire thread is you fabricating one story then then fabricating a second one to try and justify the first. The epitome of nonsense on stilts.

You have not managed to refute any of my arguments - as we have wood cut pics of gays having their waterworks cut out so who is going to admit to being a homosexual. We know from today's priesthood that many of them are gays, we know that then as now they could not have wives, so who is the priesthood more likely to attract? Those who don't want a wife and they are most likely gays.

This thread is entirely about you opposing my speculation just because it comes from myself. If in Inquisition times you would be leading the charge against Galileo making him recant.

Rincewind
01-10-2014, 10:08 AM
You have not managed to refute any of my arguments

Actually I have refuted every argument you have made. Lamentably, the number of arguments you have made is zero.

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2014, 12:02 PM
When seeing woodcuts of the Inquisition and how they tortured women, especially lesbians, I came to the conclusion that the Catholic priesthood may have dominated by women-hating Gays - am I allowed to say that? Just reporting my honest opinion.

More likely you're just coming up with another pretext to threadjack into homophobic nonsense. I'm pretty close to locking this thread and perhaps even putting it in cold storage but I'll see if it improves.

antichrist
01-10-2014, 03:02 PM
Actually I have refuted every argument you have made. Lamentably, the number of arguments you have made is zero.

I have made excellent points as to why it is very unlikely that there is direct evidence so therefore it could only be circumstantial. Not everyone is going to do a Jean Meslier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Meslier and write secret confessions or refutations. If not for that book one could almost say that all priests believed in God etc, yet that book Superstition through the Ages spill the beans and proves that wrong. Well you are putting up the same feeble excuse, like evolution theory before Darwin, yes they may not have had the verified evidence but you would put them at the stake for speculation!

Rincewind
01-10-2014, 04:25 PM
I have made excellent points as to why it is very unlikely that there is direct evidence so therefore it could only be circumstantial.

An alternative hypothesis (which also has the benefit of parsimony) is that the evidence is non-existent because the things you describe never happened.

antichrist
01-10-2014, 06:18 PM
Yes indeed. The good old days of Christianity. The un-corruptible corrupted by power. Oh my.

Given the power today, Christianity would likely do the same. There is nothing new to Christianity under the sun. It has not changed and should die.

Regards
DL
.

HI DL, as you can see Hell has broken out between RW and myself. Can you please adjudicate as to whom you think made the more valid points ? In previous times I have been triumphalist and claimed victory in the debate and I have the same urge now! Please advise

antichrist
01-10-2014, 07:57 PM
An alternative hypothesis (which also has the benefit of parsimony) is that the evidence is non-existent because the things you describe never happened.

Well I have been told by tourists to the Vatican and the Inquisition Museum in Spain how the Inquisition instruments of torture I have mentioned are still there. In the Vatican in a basement and in Spain in open exhibition.
In fact I have the pamphlet of the Inquisition Museum brought back to me as a souvenir.

Gnostic Bishop
01-10-2014, 11:35 PM
More likely you're just coming up with another pretext to threadjack into homophobic nonsense. I'm pretty close to locking this thread and perhaps even putting it in cold storage but I'll see if it improves.

Just because some go too far off topic is not a reason to close a decent topic. These goofs will go away and perhaps we can have a good discussion. Think of your other members.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
01-10-2014, 11:40 PM
HI DL, as you can see Hell has broken out between RW and myself. Can you please adjudicate as to whom you think made the more valid points ? In previous times I have been triumphalist and claimed victory in the debate and I have the same urge now! Please advise

No way am I getting into this as judge as I am bias. After all, it is my thread. I am always right and to any who oppose me, I say ----


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfResyFrqlM

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2014, 11:54 PM
Just because some go too far off topic is not a reason to close a decent topic. These goofs will go away and perhaps we can have a good discussion. Think of your other members.

There's only one goof so far. Rincewind is perfectly rational when dealing with him.

Does anyone other than AC have anything to say relevant to post 1?

Rincewind
02-10-2014, 12:04 PM
Well I have been told by tourists to the Vatican and the Inquisition Museum in Spain how the Inquisition instruments of torture I have mentioned are still there. In the Vatican in a basement and in Spain in open exhibition.
In fact I have the pamphlet of the Inquisition Museum brought back to me as a souvenir.

Tourist brochures? That is the best evidence you have?

I don't want to burst your bubble but tourist brochures are not normally written by historians. And not all museums depict actual history. This is especially true since museums often make a living from visitors either directly or indirectly and so museums which have some marketable aspect (like torture) will embellish that area sometimes to the detriment of the truth. So there is a tendency for these sorts of museums to turn into a "chamber of horrors" infotainment display. Regarding the display of "actual" torture implements, I think you will find that most of these "artifacts" are in fact modern copies of what was "believed" to be used. Although if you want to scan the tourist brochure I'm happy to adjust my opinion of the quality of this "evidence" if I am mistaken.

At present you are still without a scrap of evidence that torture (such as you described earlier) took place in any significant degree. Perhaps we should deal with that before we move on to your other claim that the torturers were also likely gay.

Rincewind
02-10-2014, 12:08 PM
Apologies for sidelining the main discussion intended in this thread but AC's post #2 was so homophobic and ludicrously unfounded I felt it should either be deleted or challenged. I'm perfectly happy for the thread to be split to excise this sideline.

antichrist
02-10-2014, 12:12 PM
Tourist brochures? That is the best evidence you have?

I don't want to burst your bubble but tourist brochures are not normally written by historians. And not all museums depict actual history. This is especially true since museums often make a living from visitors either directly or indirectly and so museums which have some marketable aspect (like torture) will embellish that area sometimes to the detriment of the truth. So there is a tendency for these sorts of museums to turn into a "chamber of horrors" infotainment display. Regarding the display of "actual" torture implements, I think you will find that most of these "artifacts" are in fact modern copies of what was "believed" to be used. Although if you want to scan the tourist brochure I'm happy to adjust my opinion of the quality of this "evidence" if I am mistaken.

At present you are still without a scrap of evidence that torture (such as you described earlier) took place in any significant degree. Perhaps we should deal with that before we move on to your other claim that the torturers were also likely gay.

I just had council inspection so must hurry off. But if they can do this to Giordano Bruno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Giordano_Bruno then they can do anything. And what were Bruno's famous words to the bishop before becoming Sunday's kebab? THIS WILL HURT YOU MORE THAN IT HURTS ME (should be red colour for fire). what a hero this guy Bruno, actually Gnostic Bishop may even be a fan of Bruno.

Rincewind
02-10-2014, 03:20 PM
I just had council inspection so must hurry off. But if they can do this to Giordano Bruno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Giordano_Bruno then they can do anything. And what were Bruno's famous words to the bishop before becoming Sunday's kebab? THIS WILL HURT YOU MORE THAN IT HURTS ME (should be red colour for fire). what a hero this guy Bruno, actually Gnostic Bishop may even be a fan of Bruno.

Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy, that definitely happened. However this says nothing about any of your claims from post #2 being factual.

Desmond
02-10-2014, 09:11 PM
Is rebellion good? Think Rosa Parks and Satan, our Lady and Mistress.
...

How many forums have you posted this in?

Gnostic Bishop
02-10-2014, 11:48 PM
I just had council inspection so must hurry off. But if they can do this to Giordano Bruno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Giordano_Bruno then they can do anything. And what were Bruno's famous words to the bishop before becoming Sunday's kebab? THIS WILL HURT YOU MORE THAN IT HURTS ME (should be red colour for fire). what a hero this guy Bruno, actually Gnostic Bishop may even be a fan of Bruno.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As a named heretic by Christianity, this Gnostic Christian sees heresy as just free thinking and we all know that that is the last thing a religion wants.

[snip-mod]

We can do better in the way of Gods but too many people just do not care.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
02-10-2014, 11:50 PM
How many forums have you posted this in?

What do you have against free speech and why should what I do concern you?

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
03-10-2014, 12:02 AM
What do you have against free speech and why should what I do concern you?

You shouldn't assume he has anything against free speech. A person can entirely consistently maintain that someone has the right to post something in fifty different places and to also maintain that there is something boring or otherwise not a good idea about actually doing so.

Also I did advise you when you first started posting here that:


Just to avoid even the slightest risk of misunderstanding though: this website is privately owned, and all free speech rights existing on it belong to its owner. The ability of posters to share in those rights is determined entirely by the owner, in practice through the actions of site staff.

Gnostic Bishop
03-10-2014, 12:47 AM
You shouldn't assume he has anything against free speech. A person can entirely consistently maintain that someone has the right to post something in fifty different places and to also maintain that there is something boring or otherwise not a good idea about actually doing so.

Also I did advise you when you first started posting here that:


Just to avoid even the slightest risk of misunderstanding though: this website is privately owned, and all free speech rights existing on it belong to its owner. The ability of posters to share in those rights is determined entirely by the owner, in practice through the actions of site staff.


I like to think I am anything but boring.

Regards
DL

antichrist
03-10-2014, 10:51 AM
I like to think I am anything but boring.

Regards
DL

Are you re-assessing about how many goofs there may be here?

Gnostic Bishop
03-10-2014, 11:12 AM
Are you re-assessing about how many goofs there may be here?

No way.

As a Gnostic Christian, I get a lot of heat from Christians. We are like water and oil so I try to stick to issues and also try to remember the following.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

If I did not and when Christians and others do not is when the conversation breaks down.

I cannot always do as I preach because I often speak of morals and those can get quite personal but it is always preceded by a discussion of the issue, when I can get it.

Even immoral Christian fools will sometimes say some thing enlightening and that is why we should try to tolerate all.

Regards
DL

Kevin Bonham
03-10-2014, 02:01 PM
Post edited and thread locked

I have edited a post by Gnostic Bishop that went much too far in attacking Christian attitudes towards homosexuality and did so in a grossly overgeneralised fashion and without presenting the slightest shred of evidence. I deemed that the comment was potentially in breach of anti-discrimination laws in some Australian states as it could be interpreted as a vilification or incitement to hatred of Christians. In the past I have also deleted similarly problematic comments made in the other direction.

I also deleted a reply to GB that quoted the offending text. There was nothing wrong from a moderation perspective with the reply and it was deleted only to remove the offending comment.

This thread is now closed and antichrist is not to quote any material from it in order to attempt to continue discussion on other threads.

Anyone wishing to discuss this moderation ruling may do so in the Help and Feedback section.