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Gnostic Bishop
30-08-2014, 02:09 AM
Can you love on command?

Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

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Jesus should know, --- if intelligent at all, that an emotions like love cannot be commanded or demanded from people.

Whatever force was driving Jesus to put that command into our reality, be that force or God real or myth, could not have been a very intelligent force.

You recognize those you love and who return the emotion by works and deeds.

Can one be effectively ordered to love knowing that true love, as with true faith, must have deeds, works and reciprocity?

Imagine you never doing anything for those you love. They would and could not know you love them. Imagine those who profess loving you without them ever showing it by actions. You could never know that they love you.

Can you love on command a God that is not here and unable to share that love?

Can you love your neighbor without doing something for him?

Is love a one way thing or must it be returned to be real love?

Are the so called great commandments unworkable rhetoric?

You should know that I think we are basically all living those commandments in a partial and blind way, as we are collectively helping our poorer neighbors. It is the intellectual efficacy or veracity of those commands that I question.

Regards
DL

Desmond
30-08-2014, 08:18 AM
You can love your neighbour but keep your eyes of his ox.

antichrist
30-08-2014, 10:25 AM
Can you love on command?

Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

----------------------------------------------

Jesus should k.............
Regards
DL

But isn't this the same God who gave permission for the ancient Hebrews to commit genocide against the Canaanites and Philistines? Kill them all was his exact words. Can you recall Joshua's Longest Day when the sun stood still so the massacre could be complete?

Kevin Bonham
30-08-2014, 09:37 PM
Can you love on command?

Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

----------------------------------------------

Jesus should know, --- if intelligent at all, that an emotions like love cannot be commanded or demanded from people.

I've argued here various times that the belief of many Christians that everyone can choose to believe in God (and hence that it makes sense that those who don't make this choice suffer consequences) is just rubbish. I can't vouch for others, but I either believe things or I don't; if the evidence suggests to me that something is false, I can't just decide I am going to think it is true.

Whether a person can alter their own emotional reactions is a different question but perhaps similar. However even if one can't, one might act as if one can - and some people might even delude themselves that they do love their neighbour and that a hateful emotional reaction they feel while going through the motions isn't "real" (it's the devil talking, or something like that.)

The other thing here is that the conceptions of love held by many socially conservative/reactionary Christians are a lot less emotionally onerous, because they actually consist not of genuine emotion for what a person is, but of idolisation of the person as an empty shell to be filled with Christian beliefs and ways, even if it is necessary to restrict, prosecute and restrain a person and take away what makes them them to make them see the light. That form of "love" (epitomised by "love the sinner, hate the sin" as used by people whose sex lives the speaker disapproves of) is nothing but a fraudulent paternalistic lie but to what extent scripture itself contests or alternatively enables such a view is something I've never looked at in detail.

Gnostic Bishop
30-08-2014, 09:51 PM
But isn't this the same God who gave permission for the ancient Hebrews to commit genocide against the Canaanites and Philistines? Kill them all was his exact words. Can you recall Joshua's Longest Day when the sun stood still so the massacre could be complete?

The issue is love. Not the hate that God shows all over the O.T..

Regards
DL

Gnostic Bishop
30-08-2014, 09:55 PM
I've argued here various times that the belief of many Christians that everyone can choose to believe in God (and hence that it makes sense that those who don't make this choice suffer consequences) is just rubbish. I can't vouch for others, but I either believe things or I don't; if the evidence suggests to me that something is false, I can't just decide I am going to think it is true.

Whether a person can alter their own emotional reactions is a different question but perhaps similar. However even if one can't, one might act as if one can - and some people might even delude themselves that they do love their neighbour and that a hateful emotional reaction they feel while going through the motions isn't "real" (it's the devil talking, or something like that.)

The other thing here is that the conceptions of love held by many socially conservative/reactionary Christians are a lot less emotionally onerous, because they actually consist not of genuine emotion for what a person is, but of idolisation of the person as an empty shell to be filled with Christian beliefs and ways, even if it is necessary to restrict, prosecute and restrain a person and take away what makes them them to make them see the light. That form of "love" (epitomised by "love the sinner, hate the sin" as used by people whose sex lives the speaker disapproves of) is nothing but a fraudulent paternalistic lie but to what extent scripture itself contests or alternatively enables such a view is something I've never looked at in detail.

To the point of abuse to this poet.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Your post was well put. Thanks.

Regards
DL

antichrist
30-08-2014, 10:43 PM
The issue is love. Not the hate that God shows all over the O.T..

Regards
DL

Did God make a mistake in the OT? But the OT is still accepted by the Jews and it is their Bible anyway. Isn't it pretty arrogant to come and re-interpret their book and add more on. All the paedophile priests come from the New Testament so it can't be that hot.

Gnostic Bishop
30-08-2014, 11:49 PM
Did God make a mistake in the OT? But the OT is still accepted by the Jews and it is their Bible anyway. Isn't it pretty arrogant to come and re-interpret their book and add more on. All the paedophile priests come from the New Testament so it can't be that hot.

Not arrogant at all. I follow an old Jewish and Gnostic Christian tradition as spoken of here by Karen Armstrong.

I have not done it here but that tradition has us turning scriptures around and inserting words to try to gain more insight in what is being said. We cannot think like ancient people in a reliable way.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Regards
DL

antichrist
31-08-2014, 08:05 AM
Not arrogant at all. I follow an old Jewish and Gnostic Christian tradition as spoken of here by Karen Armstrong.

I have not done it here but that tradition has us turning scriptures around and inserting words to try to gain more insight in what is being said. We cannot think like ancient people in a reliable way.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Regards
DL

Who whata Karen ARmstrong. It was because of New Age feminist crazies like her that the Bible prevents women from preaching. Such women want to keep the spiritual part whilst rejecting other parts of the Bible. Well if the Bible is God-inspired well you can't pick and choose what parts you want to respect. You can't be half pregnant - well not yet the gynaecologists have not sorted that one out yet. Women are denigrated in the Bible and in religion, if they had any self respect they would not have any part of either. Go and start your own feminist religion you will make a fortune.

Gnostic Bishop
01-09-2014, 12:34 AM
Who whata Karen ARmstrong. It was because of New Age feminist crazies like her that the Bible prevents women from preaching. Such women want to keep the spiritual part whilst rejecting other parts of the Bible. Well if the Bible is God-inspired well you can't pick and choose what parts you want to respect. You can't be half pregnant - well not yet the gynaecologists have not sorted that one out yet. Women are denigrated in the Bible and in religion, if they had any self respect they would not have any part of either. Go and start your own feminist religion you will make a fortune.

No. Christians would like it to much if I were not in here.

Strange that you say that people should take their spiritual side and leave the church.

Now you are not sounding too bright.

Regards
DL

antichrist
01-09-2014, 09:18 AM
No. Christians would like it to much if I were not in here.

Strange that you say that people should take their spiritual side and leave the church.

Now you are not sounding too bright.

Regards
DL

why do you to be a bit player in a male dominated oriented church and Bible - they probably only know the missionary position of evangelising to the natives, rather then to the feminist soul long for spiritual love and passion like you desire and keeps you awake at night. You too can be a Bride of Christ! And you don't need a bishop's blessing for that.

Gnostic Bishop
02-09-2014, 09:59 AM
why do you to be a bit player in a male dominated oriented church and Bible - they probably only know the missionary position of evangelising to the natives, rather then to the feminist soul long for spiritual love and passion like you desire and keeps you awake at night. You too can be a Bride of Christ! And you don't need a bishop's blessing for that.

Are you gay mate? Do they allow gay marriage where you are?

Is the Christ not happy with the one he has? She seems a bit thin but sure has talent.

http://i.imgur.com/U1UO0AW.jpg
[image perhaps not entirely work-safe - mod]

Regards
DL

antichrist
02-09-2014, 09:03 PM
Are you gay mate? Do they allow gay marriage where you are?

Is the Christ not happy with the one he has? She seems a bit thin but sure has talent.

http://i.imgur.com/U1UO0AW.jpg
[image perhaps not entirely work-safe - mod]

Regards
DL

I am bi to you have any problem with that?


every Catholic woman who dedicated their life to Jesus becomes a Bride of Christ - specifically the nuns. Well Christ was not a big money earner and he had a known gambling problem, so no wonder poor Mary was so thin.

Gnostic Bishop
03-09-2014, 04:39 AM
I am bi to you have any problem with that?


every Catholic woman who dedicated their life to Jesus becomes a Bride of Christ - specifically the nuns. Well Christ was not a big money earner and he had a known gambling problem, so no wonder poor Mary was so thin.

All those brides and we are supposed to emulate him.

How nice for us and crappy for women.

The abuse against women never stops coming out of Christianity.

Regards
DL