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ER
18-07-2014, 02:02 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150468622607654&set=a.132673817653.107748.26511277653&type=1&theater

What get's me thinking is not so much the image but the light!

My smart backside 13 yo Godson, thinks it is not the actual light that I see but an inner reflection of my pupil which is somehow irritated by the 40 sec concentration on the image.

I don't claim it's a miracle but there must be some more profound explanation.

BTW I have tried it in a well lit room as well as in a semi darkened environment. The effect is almost the same, although more impressive in the darker room!

Rincewind
18-07-2014, 02:15 AM
You don't have to do the staring for 30-40 seconds thing afterimage. Just squint at the image and you can make out the intended image pretty easily.

Here is another one. I think it is the same guy pretty much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterimage#mediaviewer/File:Che_Guevara_afterimage.jpg

ER
18-07-2014, 02:29 AM
You don't have to do the staring for 30-40 seconds thing afterimage. Just squint at the image and you can make out the intended image pretty easily.

Here is another one. I think it is the same guy pretty much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterimage#mediaviewer/File:Che_Guevara_afterimage.jpg

lol Hasta la Victoria siempre! :)

Desmond
18-07-2014, 07:40 AM
Jesus with 2 blacks eyes? Guess he's a slow learner and had to be told twice.

ER
18-07-2014, 11:09 AM
Jesus with 2 blacks eyes? Guess he's a slow learner and had to be told twice.

LOL Repent sinner, it's the light that shines between them and not their colour that matters!:P

Capablanca-Fan
31-07-2014, 02:36 AM
Poll shows Atheists and Christians are Using a Different Defintion of Faith (http://chab123.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/poll-shows-atheists-and-christians-are-using-a-different-defintion-of-faith/)
8 June 2014

Poll question: do Christians use the word “faith” to mean “believing something even though it is not supported by evidence”. 91% of Christians deny that they mean this. It doesn't stop a lot of dishonest atheopaths, including the late Bertrand Russell and his thrall RinceWind from falsely attributing this meaning to them. Note that atheopaths might fondly imagine that there is no evidence for the Christian faith, but they are still mendacious to claim that the Christian believes that there is no evidence.

Rincewind
31-07-2014, 11:36 AM
Poll shows Atheists and Christians are Using a Different Defintion of Faith (http://chab123.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/poll-shows-atheists-and-christians-are-using-a-different-defintion-of-faith/)
8 June 2014

Poll question: do Christians use the word “faith” to mean “believing something even though it is not supported by evidence”. 91% of Christians deny that they mean this. It doesn't stop a lot of dishonest atheopaths, including the late Bertrand Russell and his thrall RinceWind from falsely attributing this meaning to them. Note that atheopaths might fondly imagine that there is no evidence for the Christian faith, but they are still mendacious to claim that the Christian believes that there is no evidence.

I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree there. :lol:

Bertrand Russell never said Christians did not believe that their position was without evidence or that all christian beliefs are entirely without evidence. Just that when one says that one has faith in some position that actually means that the evidence is lacking (or is not worth checking since the source is trusted).

Kevin Bonham
31-07-2014, 11:37 AM
It sounds like the poll is an opt-in rather than a random sample; all the same I'd expect some of that discrepancy between the two groups even with a random sample. The problem is in the wording: "not supported". While that can be taken to mean just that the evidence provides no positive reason to believe, it can also be taken to mean that the evidence contradicts belief. Quite possibly the two sample groups are interpreting "not supported" differently.

A better question might be "Do you agree that when most Christians use the word "faith" they mean "very strongly believing something without requiring conclusive evidence that it is true?"

Rincewind
31-07-2014, 11:58 AM
The whole thing is a beat up anyway since ignoring the self-reporting bias the poll is really about how Boghossian wants to define faith which I think probably goes too far. It has nothing to do with Russell's usage which is standard dictionary which means "taken on trust".

However given that there is more than one major world religion each reporting that they have faith in their tenets, then at least some of that trust has been misplaced.

Capablanca-Fan
31-07-2014, 02:03 PM
I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong tree there. :lol:

Bertrand Russell never said Christians did not believe that their position was without evidence or that all christian beliefs are entirely without evidence. Just that when one says that one has faith in some position that actually means that the evidence is lacking (or is not worth checking since the source is trusted).
But clearly that is not what most Christians mean, and this poll didn't even have me answering, or even someone as poor as John Dickson (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?1145-Does-God-Exist/page367) who was at least right about:

Tip #2. Notice how believers use the word 'faith'

One of the things that becomes apparent in serious Christian literature is that no one uses 'faith' in the sense of believing things without reasons. That might be Richard Dawkins' preferred definition - except when he was publicly asked by Oxford's Professor John Lennox whether he had 'faith' in his lovely wife - but it is important to know that in theology 'faith' always means personal trust in the God whose existence one accepts on other grounds. I think God is real for philosophical, historical, and experiential reasons. Only on the basis of my reasoned conviction can I then trust God - have faith in him - in the sense meant in theology.

That poll was consistent with what Christian authors have also long taught.

Rincewind
31-07-2014, 05:17 PM
With all due respect Jono you have faith in some pretty bizarre things which go counter to historical and scientific evidence. So you are not the best example of someone with faith that is supported by evidence.

However you also fail to address the point that there are a multitude of disparate and mutually exclusive religious belief systems with no evidential grounds for choosing between them. Unless you admit the assumption that the truth is a multivalued quantity you would have to admit that many religious faiths are objectively mistaken on a number of issues. One explanation for this (together with the information that adherents believe their faith is supported by evidence) is that religious adherents are not very objective when it comes to assessing what makes good evidence on questions of faith.

Capablanca-Fan
01-08-2014, 02:08 PM
Why do half of Britons not believe in evolution? (http://www.examiner.com/article/why-do-half-of-britons-not-believe-evolution)
Examiner.com, 26 July 2014

"Half of Britons do not believe in evolution (Riazat Butt, February 1, 2009 AD). Teach both evolution and creationism say 54% of Britons (Jessica Shepherd, October 25, 2009 AD). Thus half do not believe in it and more than half believe that both views should be taught.

Lewis Wolpert, emeritus professor of biology at University College London (UCL), who is vice-president of the British Humanist Association, said:


"I am appalled. It shows how ignorant the public is. Intelligent design and creationism have no connection with science and are purely religious concepts. There is no evidence for them at all."...

Yet Intelligent design and creationism are the very premise upon which science was established in the first place; anyone with any knowledge of the history of science would know this....

What scientific, evidence based, academic, scholarly reasons does Wolpert himself offer for having become an Atheist?:


"[I] stopped believing in God when I was 15 or 16 because he didn’t give me what I asked for."

Lewis Wolpert stated, “I used to pray but I gave it up because when I asked God to help me find my cricket bat, he didn’t help.” Thus, Justin Brieley stated, “Right, and that was enough for you to prove that God did not exist” to which Wolpert replied, “Well, yes. I just gave it up completely.”