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slyall
07-07-2014, 08:02 AM
So from July 1st the rule states that "no cellphones in the playing venue". I'm wondering how we are actually going to do this.

The problem is that some people are being dropped off that the venue (or come via public transport) and are not able to store their phones in the their car (or hotel room). But they need to be able to ring their ride after the tournament finishes (or if the get a bye) to come pick them up.

I've heard at least one person say the rules will be vigerious enforced and there will be no option to store you phone anywhere so such people are going to be out of luck. The North Island is starting next week and I'm wondering what will happen then?

Tournaments do have an option of a lessor penalty (including an extremely nominal one)

GinoTHEstud
07-07-2014, 08:07 AM
The Arbiter should have a clear plastic container and the phones should be placed in it. He can lock the container in a different room or whatever...

David Webster
07-07-2014, 09:16 AM
The Arbiter should have a clear plastic container and the phones should be placed in it. He can lock the container in a different room or whatever...

This is what we did for the Oceania Seniors.

For club tournaments and large events where this is not practical, we will simply specify that no penalty applies as long as the phone is completely switched off.

GinoTHEstud
07-07-2014, 10:10 AM
Sounds good.

LNah
07-07-2014, 03:26 PM
How are Australians dealing with this at their tournaments?

Some observations if this (collecting everyone's phones) is what's planned happen:
The arbiter has a lot to do to get the tournament going before round 1. Could someone else organise this before start of 1st round and each day?

Suggest ppl know this is a service with all care but no responsiblity. I'd hate be the person organising this when someone's or everyone's phone(s) go missing.

There's usually no secure room at tournaments. I don't suggest locking them in the boot of someone's car.

If this is going to happen, I suggest ppl put their phone in a ziplock bag or envelope with ther name very clearly written on the front of the bag/envelope. said bag/envelope well secured so contents don't fall out. Many phones look alike and you don't want ppl to accidentally take the wrong phone.

Suggest 2 - 3 times set for opening said box before the end of last tournament of the day, so whoever has care of this box is not continually hassled for access to the box to retrieve phone by those who just finished.

MichaelBaron
07-07-2014, 04:06 PM
How are Australians dealing with this at their tournaments?

Some observations if this (collecting everyone's phones) is what's planned happen:
The arbiter has a lot to do to get the tournament going before round 1. Could someone else organise this before start of 1st round and each day?

Suggest ppl know this is a service with all care but no responsiblity. I'd hate be the person organising this when someone's or everyone's phone(s) go missing.

There's usually no secure room at tournaments. I don't suggest locking them in the boot of someone's car.

If this is going to happen, I suggest ppl put their phone in a ziplock bag or envelope with ther name very clearly written on the front of the bag/envelope. said bag/envelope well secured so contents don't fall out. Many phones look alike and you don't want ppl to accidentally take the wrong phone.

Suggest 2 - 3 times set for opening said box before the end of last tournament of the day, so whoever has care of this box is not continually hassled for access to the box to retrieve phone by those who just finished.

In Melbourne, organizers of the upcoming weekenders (to take place this month) are not going to follow this rule. However, these events are ACF-rated only but not Fide-Rated. Waiting to see what MCC is going to do about this rule as we got a new event starting in a week's time and it will be fide-rated.

Keong Ang
07-07-2014, 05:31 PM
For NZ Junior tournaments that are ongoing this week and North Island tournaments next week all players are prohibited from bringing mobile phones or electronic communication devices into the playing venue during play.
No lesser penalty has been specified and the full weight of the 2014 Laws will apply.

For players who need to bring such devices a solution is provided.

There is a very clearly defined area within the hall (actually right inside) that is NOT part of the playing venue.
We call it the "Quarantine Area".
Every player would need to place their devices in this "Quarantine Area" before the start of play (start of games of a round).
The device needs to be switched off and silent. If it makes noise, it will be taken out of the "Quarantine Area" and the player who owns the device will be penalised as if he/she brought it into the playing venue. In cases where nobody admits to owning the device, it will be confiscated and the proceeds from disposal (if any) will go to a non-profit organisation (usually a chess club or NZCF).

The "Quarantine Area" is visible to all players in the playing area so that they can keep an eye on their property.
No player is allowed into this Quarantine Area during play. Doing so is penalised the same way as leaving the playing venue (loss of game).
Everything left in the "Quarantine Area" is the sole responsibility of the player (plus all disclaimers of liability from organisers, officials etc).

For everyone else who is not a player, the usual normal practise in NZ is still in force. Such devices can be brought in and must be silent. Additionally, they are prohibited from the playing area unless authorised by the arbiter.

IA Keong Ang
Chief Arbiter
NZ Junior & NZ North Island tournaments.

MichaelBaron
07-07-2014, 05:58 PM
The "Quarantine Area" is visible to all players in the playing area so that they can keep an eye on their property.
.

Picturing players playing their games ...and keeping eyes on their devices at the same time. :);). And they will know if the phone goes missing...nobody is responsible

Keong Ang
07-07-2014, 06:08 PM
Picturing players playing their games ...and keeping eyes on their devices at the same time. :);). And they will know if the phone goes missing...nobody is responsible
The "Quarantine Area" system is similar to what is normally done during academic examinations.
Nobody is responsible for valuables that go missing in that situation either.

Desmond
07-07-2014, 06:33 PM
The "Quarantine Area" system is similar to what is normally done during academic examinations.
Nobody is responsible for valuables that go missing in that situation either.Academic examinations do not have unidentified spectators wandering in and out as they please. Nor do they have participants wandering around as they please during the exam, or indeed milling around for hours after they finish.

MichaelBaron
07-07-2014, 10:49 PM
Legal responsibilities/disclaimers aside, hopefully arbiters will be in charge of minding the phones.

Rincewind
07-07-2014, 10:53 PM
Legal responsibilities/disclaimers aside, hopefully arbiters will be in charge of minding the phones.

It will be better than having them interfering with games. :)

Adamski
08-07-2014, 12:26 AM
IMHO this whole law about no cell phones in the playing venue is unnecessarily excessive. Why can't players just turn off their mobiles? Up to them to check beforehand that the battery is not so low that a "low battery" sound could emanate from them, thereby losing a point.

MichaelBaron
08-07-2014, 01:25 AM
IMHO this whole law about no cell phones in the playing venue is unnecessarily excessive. Why can't players just turn off their mobiles? Up to them to check beforehand that the battery is not so low that a "low battery" sound could emanate from them, thereby losing a point.

Agreed, no need to make so much fuss about it. Fide has nothing better to do I guess.

CivicChessMan
08-07-2014, 07:49 AM
What did we all do before we had mobile phones? Survived quite well actually. Just leave them at home if one doesn't have a car or a friend's car to leave them in. And arrange a time to be picked up if necessary beforehand.

Kevin Bonham
08-07-2014, 09:52 AM
IMHO this whole law about no cell phones in the playing venue is unnecessarily excessive. Why can't players just turn off their mobiles? Up to them to check beforehand that the battery is not so low that a "low battery" sound could emanate from them, thereby losing a point.

The concern is that a player who has a switched-off mobile phone might at any time switch it on (eg in the toilets) and use it to cheat, especially if it has a chess engine installed.

Kevin Bonham
08-07-2014, 09:57 AM
What did we all do before we had mobile phones? Survived quite well actually. Just leave them at home if one doesn't have a car or a friend's car to leave them in. And arrange a time to be picked up if necessary beforehand.

As I noted out on another thread this isn't ideal for juniors who could be left hanging around with nothing to do for hours if their game finishes early.

Chess is competing with many other things for people's time and energy and mobile phone technology has made many of those other things easier too. If we make it harder for people by imposing unnecessarily harsh or inflexible mobile phone solutions then we make chess less attractive and lose players.

I think the best thing that can be said for the new rule as applied to local level competition is that with any luck it will have a Darwinian effect against overly strict organising.

MichaelBaron
08-07-2014, 02:25 PM
What did we all do before we had mobile phones? Survived quite well actually. Just leave them at home if one doesn't have a car or a friend's car to leave them in. And arrange a time to be picked up if necessary beforehand.

I too wonder how we survived without a phone, leave alone computer, refrigirator and of course clothes. But should chess be a sport for hunters and collectors?

Craig_Hall
08-07-2014, 06:23 PM
What did we all do before we had mobile phones? Survived quite well actually. Just leave them at home if one doesn't have a car or a friend's car to leave them in. And arrange a time to be picked up if necessary beforehand.

Had far more landlines and payphones is how people coped without mobile phones. The rise of the mobile phone has heavily reduced the number of payphones, and apparently new landline connections are much less common than they were. A lot of the venues used for chess events and clubs don't have either, so at least one mobile phone is necessary (not having some form of comunication is unwise).

The insurance and liability issues make me, as an organiser and arbiter, very uneasy about taking custody of mobile phones. A reasonably sized tournament could easily have $20,000+ worth of electronic equipment at it, and I do not want that responsibility. Even if I get legal advice and we come up with a method that avoids liabiity, the hassle involved for the players (and me) if the unthinkable happened would be far more than it's worth to implement such a system.

In any case, after going through the Chch earthquakes, turning the phone off is fine, but I would think long and hard about going to an open tournament with a total ban on cellphones - the ability to get in touch with family immediately after a disaster is easily dismissed unless and until you've lived through one.

I don't think it is necessary to worry about club tournaments as we don't play for money and a bit of trust in your fellow players goes a long way. If that trust is abused, chuck them out, but give them the benefit of the doubt in the meantime.

Desmond
08-07-2014, 07:37 PM
The insurance and liability issues make me, as an organiser and arbiter, very uneasy about taking custody of mobile phones. A reasonably sized tournament could easily have $20,000+ worth of electronic equipment at it, and I do not want that responsibility. Even if I get legal advice and we come up with a method that avoids liabiity, the hassle involved for the players (and me) if the unthinkable happened would be far more than it's worth to implement such a system.$20,000 might cover the cost of replacement of the phones but what about the loss of intellectual property stored on the phone. This may be unique personal items (irreplaceable) or corporate information or access to corporate systems. This is not a can of worms you want to open.

Keong Ang
08-07-2014, 08:29 PM
To illustrate what is implemented at the NZ Junior tournaments and going to be implemented at the North Island tournaments.

This is the "Quarantine Area"
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/keongang/NZJuniors2014/IMG_2998_zpsed2b433e.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/keongang/media/NZJuniors2014/IMG_2998_zpsed2b433e.jpg.html)

View from playing area
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/keongang/NZJuniors2014/IMG_2999_zpsf2aeca8c.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/keongang/media/NZJuniors2014/IMG_2999_zpsf2aeca8c.jpg.html)

View from other side of playing area
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a618/keongang/NZJuniors2014/IMG_3000_zps2727242f.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/keongang/media/NZJuniors2014/IMG_3000_zps2727242f.jpg.html)

ER
08-07-2014, 09:09 PM
The new mobile phone rule in effect.
Tournament: 2014 Oceania Seniors Championship
Venue: Norths, Sydney.
Charles explained thoroughly the new rule.
He implemented the "leave mobile phones in box" variation
There was also a printed page with a synopsis of some of the new rules implemented since July 1.
The MPB was placed on a table which you can see on the left side of Charles.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/jak_jak1/IMG_0183_zpsa94bb610.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/jak_jak1/media/IMG_0183_zpsa94bb610.jpg.html)

Photo: Elliott Renzies

sleepless
08-07-2014, 09:34 PM
Yes, it wasn't a problem at all. How did you manage to sneak your mobile out of the box to take the photo?

MichaelBaron
09-07-2014, 02:21 AM
I find it quite entertaining when some of my students post ''during exam'' photos on facebook. However, it is not that uncommon anymore so Elliots' photo taking efforts are commendable but not entirely surprsing :)

Desmond
09-07-2014, 07:14 AM
For everyone else who is not a player, the usual normal practise in NZ is still in force. Such devices can be brought in and must be silent. Additionally, they are prohibited from the playing area unless authorised by the arbiter.Does this "not a player" status apply to players who have finished their game? Eg player finishes game, collects phone, re-enters playing area to spectate.

Rincewind
09-07-2014, 10:54 AM
Assuming Law 11.4 is not countered then one would think so.


11.4 Players who have finished their games shall be considered to be spectators.

ER
09-07-2014, 10:54 AM
Yes, it wasn't a problem at all. How did you manage to sneak your mobile out of the box to take the photo?

Oh good question! :)

However, I am one of those poor old timers who still use a camera to take photos! :P

ER
09-07-2014, 10:59 AM
I find it quite entertaining when some of my students post ''during exam'' photos on facebook. However, it is not that uncommon anymore so Elliots' photo taking efforts are commendable but not entirely surprsing :)

What I found rather surprising was a rather sizeable hand written sign in front of WFM Vivian Smith with the inscription "Notate" while she was playing. I meant to ask her, but I forgot! :) I even didn't think of taking a picture of it at the time! :)

Ian Rout
09-07-2014, 04:22 PM
I can see the benefit of the stricter phone rule in major events where the optics take on increased importance, or where there are individuals with form who it is preferable to deprive of their electronic aids before a problem arises.

On the other hand in general it's a case of the cure being worse than the disease. We play chess to obtain a result by checkmate, stalemate etc, not from the intervention of a crazed arbiter itching to disqualify somebody for possessing a mobile phone, or wearing red socks, or looking at them in a funny way.

How can a player obtain an advantage from a phone in a bag bedide the table, or in a jacket hung over a chair? Of course it would be possible to take a concealed phone into a toilet, but the legislation doesn't stop at addressing that. Nor does it take into account the risk management issue of balancing the prevention of cheating against the likelihood of it happening, which is different depending on the event.

Having said that, I'm not sure that the rule will be quite such a big deal as it sounds. In my case I have a cheap phone which I don't mind leaving in a "quarantine area" (with reasonable security). People with more valuable phones who play in phone-free events regularly could consider obtaining a second, cheaper phone.

The risk I think is more of being pinged for innocently forgetting to divest yourself of the phone. But that raises what I condider the big question - how many arbiters are going to do regular full cavity searches of the entire field? After the initial fuss dies down the best approach may just be to take the odds to not getting caught.

Kevin Bonham
09-07-2014, 09:24 PM
I made a concerning discovery today that I'm glad I didn't make during a tournament.

My circa six year old Nokia rings audibly when on silent. At least, it does when the ACF President calls. :lol:

Adamski
10-07-2014, 12:54 AM
I made a concerning discovery today that I'm glad I didn't make during a tournament.

My circa six year old Nokia rings audibly when on silent. At least, it does when the ACF President calls. :lol:That is worth a LOL, even if Baronski has a go at me for it!

MichaelBaron
10-07-2014, 11:34 AM
That is worth a LOL, even if Baronski has a go at me for it!

Baronski is waiting for you to wish good luck to all the participants, then inform everyone of the progress scores visible from the cross-table, then congratulate the winners :) :) :). This is a more reasonable LOL :).
As for phone being on scilent and making noises, quite a few phones do it. Very light noises though. However, obviously better to keep it off if you do not want the arbiter to notice you are having it.

Adamski
10-07-2014, 01:20 PM
Baronski is waiting for you to wish good luck to all the participants, then inform everyone of the progress scores visible from the cross-table, then congratulate the winners :) :) :). This is a more reasonable LOL :).
As for phone being on scilent and making noises, quite a few phones do it. Very light noises though. However, obviously better to keep it off if you do not want the arbiter to notice you are having it.You might have a long wait! I have seen the error of some of my ways.
Back on topic I agree with you on best to turn mobiles off.

Desmond
10-07-2014, 04:50 PM
You might have a long wait! I have seen the error of some of my ways.
I wouldn't pay any attention to him if I were you.

CivicChessMan
10-07-2014, 06:45 PM
But should chess be a sport for hunters and collectors?Aren't they an Aussie rock band?

Patrick Byrom
11-07-2014, 01:56 PM
As for phone being on scilent and making noises, quite a few phones do it. Very light noises though. However, obviously better to keep it off if you do not want the arbiter to notice you are having it.
A large phone on silent which vibrates on a wooden table can make quite a lot of noise :)

Watto
12-07-2014, 06:33 AM
I made a concerning discovery today that I'm glad I didn't make during a tournament.

My circa six year old Nokia rings audibly when on silent. At least, it does when the ACF President calls. :lol:
My Nokia of a similar age does the same thing. It's actually louder than its general setting which I keep very low. I discovered it when I was at work last year. I initially confidently said 'that's not me, must be someone else' as the ringtone was completely different apart from the fact that it was on silent.

ER
12-07-2014, 05:24 PM
My circa six year old Nokia rings audibly when on silent. At least, it does when the ACF President calls. :lol:

are they still around these things? the archaeology faculty might be interested! :P :)

Kevin Bonham
12-07-2014, 07:51 PM
are they still around these things? the archaeology faculty might be interested! :P :)

Yeah I'm just not into the recent trend of a mobile phone that is more like a computer and vice versa. Probably because any kind of text-messaging format vs full-keyboard-typing drives me up the wall.

I think I've only changed mobile phones about twice in the past 15 years and both of those were because my phone at the time was accidentally damaged.

ER
12-07-2014, 08:07 PM
Yeah I'm just not into the recent trend of a mobile phone that is more like a computer and vice versa. Probably because any kind of text-messaging format vs full-keyboard-typing drives me up the wall.

I think I've only changed mobile phones about twice in the past 15 years and both of those were because my phone at the time was accidentally damaged.

LOL you should see the one I got from the golden days of mobile telephony. It's like a med size brick and when it buzzed you thought you 'd better evacuate the building! I doubt it 'd fit into Charles's box and if it did it 'd probably bully all the modern type ones out of existence! :)

Kevin Bonham
12-07-2014, 09:54 PM
LOL you should see the one I got from the golden days of mobile telephony. It's like a med size brick and when it buzzed you thought you 'd better evacuate the building!

I used one of these when scrutineering at an election in the early 90s. Amazingly heavy.

MichaelBaron
13-07-2014, 03:01 AM
So can we assume that arbiters/organizers etc. are going to provide assistance in looking after the phones while we play?

ER
13-07-2014, 05:20 AM
So can we assume that arbiters/organizers etc. are going to provide assistance in looking after the phones while we play?

Assistance maybe, I don't know about guarantee though! It's a big responsibility to mind 30-40 (that's just a rough estimation) mobile phones some of which could be very expensive!

What would an arbiter do when they have to go to various parts of the playing venue to oversee situations? Carry the box with the phones with them?

Maybe a shopping trolley could be an idea LOL

Or a volunteer or paid mobile phone keeper?

Or a bank safe or something?

At the seniors tournament where this new rule was implemented I noticed that there were quite a few phones identical to each other!

I imagine players finishing their games and trying to locate their phones amongst a pile of others!

Or when a phone such as those described above goes off during play what does the umpire do to locate the owner?

C'mon the whole thing is ridiculous!

Keong Ang
13-07-2014, 04:58 PM
So can we assume that arbiters/organizers etc. are going to provide assistance in looking after the phones while we play?
Arbiters/organisers are providing ZERO assistance in looking after the phones and other devices. Neither responsibility nor liability is accepted, so nobody is going to admit to providing such assistance.

The reason why a "quarantine area" is set up in a part of floorspace that is outside the boundaries of the playing venue is to comply with the prohibition (that nobody can overturn) from bringing a mobile phone into the playing venue by players.
Players use it at their own risk.

Players are free to ignore the prohibition, but all it takes is for their phone/device to be discovered in the playing venue for the game to be lost and the opponent to win (even if just the bare King remains).

Judging by the enthusiasm wins are claimed, the odds are that your opponent would certainly ensure the game is played strictly according to the rules.
It could be anyone that dobs the player in to the arbiter.

I've found this to be a non-issue after running 3 tournaments under the mobile phone prohibition rule. Life still continues normally. There are lots of places where mobile phones cannot be brought in, either practically or by imposition of rules. An example that comes to mind are public swimming pools, lockers cost money to hire, and people tend leave their valuables in a bags all over the place. Nobody is guarding all this stuff while the owners are swimming.

With the "quarantine area" system in operation as pictured, security can be enhanced by putting phone into a bag and making sure the bag cannot be opened, eg. by padlocking the zips together. Then to make sure the bag cannot be snatched easily, a bicycle lock could be used to attach bag to a chair.

Keong Ang
13-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Assistance maybe, I don't know about guarantee though! It's a big responsibility to mind 30-40 (that's just a rough estimation) mobile phones some of which could be very expensive!

What would an arbiter do when they have to go to various parts of the playing venue to oversee situations? Carry the box with the phones with them?

Maybe a shopping trolley could be an idea LOL

Or a volunteer or paid mobile phone keeper?

Or a bank safe or something?

At the seniors tournament where this new rule was implemented I noticed that there were quite a few phones identical to each other!

I imagine players finishing their games and trying to locate their phones amongst a pile of others!

Or when a phone such as those described above goes off during play what does the umpire do to locate the owner?

C'mon the whole thing is ridiculous!

A box of mobile phones within the playing venue actually makes all the players break the mobile phone rule. Unless we're trying to somehow define the space within the box to be not part of the playing venue.

The whole thing is not as ridiculous as it seems in practise. For the first time, I did not have anyone expressing suspicion that the player in the toilet is cheating with a mobile phone. There are lots of people around chess events who think all chess players (except themselves) are cheats. At least this rule goes some way into removing such toxic thoughts.

Desmond
13-07-2014, 05:55 PM
Arbiters/organisers are providing ZERO assistance in looking after the phones and other devices. What other devices?

Keong Ang
13-07-2014, 06:38 PM
What other devices?
Article11.3.b. "During play, a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone and/or other electronic
means of communication in the playing venue....."
Basically the "other electronic means of communication" are the other devices. The definition is broad enough to cover almost everything as long as it uses electricity and can communicate or be used to communicate something.

ER
13-07-2014, 06:59 PM
Thanks Keong, point(s) taken!

Bill Gletsos
13-07-2014, 10:55 PM
Arbiters/organisers are providing ZERO assistance in looking after the phones and other devices. Neither responsibility nor liability is accepted, so nobody is going to admit to providing such assistance.

The reason why a "quarantine area" is set up in a part of floorspace that is outside the boundaries of the playing venue is to comply with the prohibition (that nobody can overturn) from bringing a mobile phone into the playing venue by players.
Players use it at their own risk.

Players are free to ignore the prohibition, but all it takes is for their phone/device to be discovered in the playing venue for the game to be lost and the opponent to win (even if just the bare King remains).Only if the arbiter is so draconian to declare the game lost for an offending player.
Fortunately saner arbiters do exist and are in the majority.

Keong Ang
14-07-2014, 07:30 PM
Only if the arbiter is so draconian to declare the game lost for an offending player.
Fortunately saner arbiters do exist and are in the majority.
The rules make the arbiter declare the game lost by an offending player and won for the opponent.
Any arbiter who does otherwise is simply not following the rules.
There is no ambiguity with "If it is evident that a player brought such a device into the playing venue, he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win."
Don't know why you would label an arbiter who is just implementing compulsory penalties as draconian.

If organisers think this penalty is too draconian, they can specify a lesser penalty in their competition rules. Something not applicable to the NZ national federation level tournaments that this thread is referring to since such deviations would require a formal decision by NZCF Council.

Bill Gletsos
14-07-2014, 08:21 PM
The rules make the arbiter declare the game lost by an offending player and won for the opponent.
Any arbiter who does otherwise is simply not following the rules.
There is no ambiguity with "If it is evident that a player brought such a device into the playing venue, he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win."
Don't know why you would label an arbiter who is just implementing compulsory penalties as draconian.Only by default. As mentioned in the other thread there is no reason to take such draconian actions when the penalty can be reduced by the competition rules.


If organisers think this penalty is too draconian, they can specify a lesser penalty in their competition rules. Something not applicable to the NZ national federation level tournaments that this thread is referring to since such deviations would require a formal decision by NZCF Council.Surely the NZCF Council would take into account the view of their chief arbiter.
Of course if their chief arbiter is draconian by nature he is unlikely to be recommending a lesser penalty.

Ian Rout
14-07-2014, 09:25 PM
Of course if the rules either overtly or by omission require the arbiter to default any player whose phone is in the playing area regardless of circumstances then the arbiter has no alternative. We should assume that the organiser deliberately created that situation.

Although the arbiter does have some discretion regarding how vigorously they go looking for phones.

Craig_Hall
16-07-2014, 04:36 PM
Only by default. As mentioned in the other thread there is no reason to take such draconian actions when the penalty can be reduced by the competition rules.

Surely the NZCF Council would take into account the view of their chief arbiter.
Of course if their chief arbiter is draconian by nature he is unlikely to be recommending a lesser penalty.

I'm not sure what sense you mean by chief here, but Bob Gibbons and Peter Stuart are on the NZCF Rules Revision Committee along with Keong, and all are on NZCF Council, so they will no doubt make a recommendation if asked. Neither Peter nor Bob are particularly draconian in my experience, although others may have more experience than I do! Also, although changing this rule for all NZCF tournaments requires a regulation change, an individual organiser of an NZCF tournament can set the punishment as they see fit (an untracked warning is an option...).


Of course if the rules either overtly or by omission require the arbiter to default any player whose phone is in the playing area regardless of circumstances then the arbiter has no alternative. We should assume that the organiser deliberately created that situation.

Although the arbiter does have some discretion regarding how vigorously they go looking for phones.

Both excellent points.

I think my main issue with all of this is that cheating with mobile phones for any length of time without being detected is very difficult, and the potential rewards in this part of the world are small. In my opinion, the risks and annoyances associated with banning phones (and other similar devices e.g. Ipod Touch) outweigh the problem in NZ and Australia, except maybe for the big events.

However, as noted, it's a call for organisers to make, not arbiters.