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arosar
17-11-2004, 09:42 AM
This event is happening in March in 2005, right? I'm asking because a chess tour by 15 foreigners revolves around this event. Can you inform me please ASAP? Cheers.

AR

Rincewind
17-11-2004, 09:45 AM
This event is happening in March in 2005, right? I'm asking because a chess tour by 15 foreigners revolves around this event. Can you inform me please ASAP? Cheers.

Might be best to start a new thread called 2005 Doeberl, or something.

Ian Rout
17-11-2004, 09:55 AM
This event is happening in March in 2005, right? I'm asking because a chess tour by 15 foreigners revolves around this event. Can you inform me please ASAP? Cheers.

AR
Good Friday (or Round 1 as atheists call it) is 25 March 2005.

Ian Rout
17-11-2004, 10:04 AM
PS: Through the magic of the Internet, the Doeberl Cup starting dates for the next years (if it continues to start on Good Friday) are

25 Mar 2005
14 Apr 2006
6 Apr 2007
21 Mar 2008
10 Apr 2009
2 Apr 2010
22 Apr 2011
6 Apr 2012

Garvinator
17-11-2004, 10:09 AM
6 Apr 2012
can i pay my entry fee for this tournament now ;) :lol:

Alan Shore
17-11-2004, 12:11 PM
can i pay my entry fee for this tournament now ;) :lol:

2012... wonder where we'll all be then?

jenni
17-11-2004, 12:36 PM
2012... wonder where we'll all be then?

Tamzin will be getting towards the end of Uni and Tony and I will looking forward to "life after kids". :clap:

Bill Gletsos
17-11-2004, 12:51 PM
Tamzin will be getting towards the end of Uni and Tony and I will looking forward to "life after kids". :clap:
Or chess admin for adults? :whistle:

Lucena
23-11-2004, 12:48 PM
This event is happening in March in 2005, right? I'm asking because a chess tour by 15 foreigners revolves around this event. Can you inform me please ASAP? Cheers.

AR

Which foreigners?

Ian Rout
14-01-2005, 12:04 PM
More about the 2005 Doeberl Cup (not a lot has changed from 2004 as far as I can see):

http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.htm

The usual disclaimer - I'm just the messenger so get on to the contacts at the above address if you need more information.

Mischa
22-01-2005, 11:36 PM
And dates for 2023?

antichrist
23-01-2005, 01:38 AM
Which foreigners?

A boat of illegals from the Philippines maybe

Bas
28-01-2005, 09:56 AM
Seeing that the dates of the Begonia and the Doeberl Cup Weekenders are so close together (only 1.5 weeks seperates them), would it not be a good idea to grab this unique opportunity to try and attract overseas players to come to Australia? It would perhaps make it very attractive for them to play in two of our major tournaments, I believe. Economics of scale for them and the organisers, so to speak!
Perhaps the two tournament committees could work together on this, to maximise the result.
It would be imperative in this regard to advertise and publicize the two tournaments overseas, eg. with FIDE, TWIC and the various international chess calendars.

Bas

pax
28-01-2005, 10:14 AM
Seeing that the dates of the Begonia and the Doeberl Cup Weekenders are so close together (only 1.5 weeks seperates them), would it not be a good idea to grab this unique opportunity to try and attract overseas players to come to Australia? It would perhaps make it very attractive for them to play in two of our major tournaments, I believe. Economics of scale for them and the organisers, so to speak!
Perhaps the two tournament committees could work together on this, to maximise the result.
It would be imperative in this regard to advertise and publicize the two tournaments overseas, eg. with FIDE, TWIC and the various international chess calendars.

Bas

Two months is rather too late to arrange such things. They will either have happened by now, or not. Anyway, the reaction to the last batch of overseas players (at Buller) seemed to be that they were being funded at the expense of Australian players.

Garvinator
28-01-2005, 10:42 AM
Two months is rather too late to arrange such things. They will either have happened by now, or not. Anyway, the reaction to the last batch of overseas players (at Buller) seemed to be that they were being funded at the expense of Australian players.
and as I have said many times that this is COMPLETELY false. The organisers didnt fund any part of the terms for overseas players playing in the open. We did spend a couple of thousand on the coaching of the italians for the juniors, but not a penny during the open.

Do I have to speak to every single titled australian player to make this abunduntly clear to all of them :wall: If I find out who is peddling this crap, I will confront them in person. :evil:

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 10:54 AM
What ratings are used for pairings and group prizes (eg. U2150) in the Open section at Doeberl? Australian or Fide? Thanks.

Ian Rout
28-01-2005, 11:09 AM
Last year pairing was on FIDE rating - if you didn't have a FIDE rating your ACF was used.

I think prizes were ACF rating. Shaun should be able to confirm or deny that when he next logs on.

shaun
28-01-2005, 11:15 AM
Last year pairing was on FIDE rating - if you didn't have a FIDE rating your ACF was used.

I think prizes were ACF rating. Shaun should be able to confirm or deny that when he next logs on.

This is correct.

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Just to make sure - this year would be the same way, right?

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 11:39 AM
And what was the rationale for such a decision? I don't think there are any other open/weekenders in Australia that use Fide ratings for pairings... One would think that Acf rating should be somewhat more representative of players' strength, what with many more games played and so on.

Brian_Jones
28-01-2005, 12:19 PM
FIDE rated tournaments should always use FIDE ratings for pairings.
I think there is something about this in the FIDE Handbook somewhere?
Not sure I agree about ACF ratings. Firstly, they include 1 hour games. Also, some people play more FIDE-rated games than ACF rated!

shaun
28-01-2005, 12:38 PM
And what was the rationale for such a decision? I don't think there are any other open/weekenders in Australia that use Fide ratings for pairings... One would think that Acf rating should be somewhat more representative of players' strength, what with many more games played and so on.

We actually used a metric which was if more than X% of the field had FIDE ratings we would use FIDE ratings for pairing purposes. I cannot exactly remember what X was, but it was either 60%, 66% or 75%. In the end there were more FIDE rated players than X, so that is what we used.

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 01:07 PM
FIDE rated tournaments should always use FIDE ratings for pairings.
I think there is something about this in the FIDE Handbook somewhere?

I don't know what Fide handbook says but there are heaps of tournaments in Australia that don't follow that rule if it indeed exists. Recent Open in Mt.Buller didn't.


Not sure I agree about ACF ratings. Firstly, they include 1 hour games. Also, some people play more FIDE-rated games than ACF rated!

This is just nonsense. The number of australian chess players that play more Fide-rated games than Acf-rated games would be less than 0.5%.

Ian Rout
28-01-2005, 01:24 PM
I had the impression last year, without having measured it, that there were some distortions due to most lower-rated players (in Doeberl Premier terms) having FIDE ratings, if they had them at all, higher than their ACF ratings. Hence those who didn't have ratings dropped down the order leading to the pairings being more randomised.

It's difficult to argue that it's wrong to pair a FIDE-rated tournament on FIDE ratings, even if it could also be argued that it isn't essential. An option though would be to convert ACF ratings by the obeserved relativity pattern rather than FIDE=ACF.

Brian_Jones
28-01-2005, 01:49 PM
This is just nonsense. The number of australian chess players that play more Fide-rated games than Acf-rated games would be less than 0.5%.

Yes, I agree that it is less than 0.5% but it is still a fact. Take a look at the players in the Zonal. Many of these will have less than 9 ACF-rated games in the current rating period.

Do you have something against FIDE ratings?

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 02:22 PM
I had the impression last year, without having measured it, that there were some distortions due to most lower-rated players (in Doeberl Premier terms) having FIDE ratings, if they had them at all, higher than their ACF ratings. Hence those who didn't have ratings dropped down the order leading to the pairings being more randomised.

Yes, that's exactly what I've heard from a number of Vic players who took part in Doeberl Cup last year.

I am surprised that Fide ratings are used, and I am wondering why. All I've got so far from Shaun here is that just because more than 60% (66%, 75%, etc) players have Fide ratings, then it should be used. No offence but that can seem rather silly.

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 02:27 PM
Yes, I agree that it is less than 0.5% but it is still a fact. Take a look at the players in the Zonal. Many of these will have less than 9 ACF-rated games in the current rating period.

Do you have something against FIDE ratings?

Oh come on. I was wondering why somebody would start saying such a nonsense and then I had a look at the Fide rating list and Acf ratings list.

Could you be just a little bit biased here, Mr. Jones? Or do you actually believe than your Fide rating is more representative of your current strength than your Acf rating?

shaun
28-01-2005, 02:35 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I've heard from a number of Vic players who took part in Doeberl Cup last year.

I am surprised that Fide ratings are used, and I am wondering why. All I've got so far from Shaun here is that just because more than 60% (66%, 75%, etc) players have Fide ratings, then it should be used. No offence but that can seem rather silly.

Actually there was strong representation from a number of players arguing that a) as a FIDE rated event and b) the majority of players were FIDE rated, that FIDE ratings should be used for pairings. If it makes it easier, imagine that the Doeberl Cup Premier is an international tournament, albeit with mainly Australian players.
What we wanted to avoid was the problem of placing FIDE unrateds at the bottom of the seedings especially if they had high ACF ratings. Thats why we "interleaved" FIDE and ACF ratings, with FIDE ratings taking precedence.

pax
28-01-2005, 02:48 PM
and as I have said many times that this is COMPLETELY false. The organisers didnt fund any part of the terms for overseas players playing in the open. We did spend a couple of thousand on the coaching of the italians for the juniors, but not a penny during the open.

Do I have to speak to every single titled australian player to make this abunduntly clear to all of them :wall: If I find out who is peddling this crap, I will confront them in person. :evil:

It is not at all false.

Did I say that the organisers funded overseas players at the expense of local ones? No, I did not. I said (the perception was that) the overseas players were funded at the expense of the local players. Whether the choice lay with the organisers or the sponsor matters little to the players themselves, as the result is the same.

You may validly argue that the choice lay with sponsors, but it is pretty clear that the sponsors could have chosen to spend more of the invitation money on Australian players (and would have got a lot more bang for the buck).

Pax

Brian_Jones
28-01-2005, 03:07 PM
Oh come on. I was wondering why somebody would start saying such a nonsense and then I had a look at the Fide rating list and Acf ratings list.

Could you be just a little bit biased here, Mr. Jones? Or do you actually believe than your Fide rating is more representative of your current strength than your Acf rating?

Yes I do but now you are getting a little too personal. So tell us what your FIDE and ACF ratings are Mr DoroPhil, then I will gracefully leave you to debate with yourself.

ursogr8
28-01-2005, 03:23 PM
^
No postings from Phil O'Dor while the Aus. Junior was on.
Married.
Interested in the 2150 cut-off.

starter

Bill Gletsos
28-01-2005, 03:55 PM
Yes, I agree that it is less than 0.5% but it is still a fact. Take a look at the players in the Zonal. Many of these will have less than 9 ACF-rated games in the current rating period.
You would be unwise to just base activity on one rating period.

If you look at players who have been active in Australia in the 2004 rating periods and look at those who were also active in the FIDE lists for Apr, Jun and Oct 04 as well as Jan 05 then the number is likely to be under 5.
In fact without actually checking the figures only Rogers and Lane immediately spring to mind.

Brian_Jones
28-01-2005, 04:11 PM
You would be unwise to just base activity on one rating period.

If you look at players who have been active in Australia in the 2004 rating periods and look at those who were also active in the FIDE lists for Apr, Jun and Oct 04 as well as Jan 05 then the number is likely to be under 5.
In fact without actually checking the figures only Rogers and Lane immediately spring to mind.

OK here we go; Australian players who have possibly played more FIDE-rated games than ACF-rated games in the past 12 months:

Speck, Tindall, Rippis, Dick, Jones, Rogers, Lane, Wohl, Wallace, Viner, Smerdon, Teichmann, Reilly, Feldman, Sorokina, Caoili, Eriksson, Zhao,

DoroPhil
28-01-2005, 04:21 PM
Yes I do but now you are getting a little too personal.

Didn't mean to offend you, Mr. Jones. My point was that if you think that your Fide rating is an accurate reflection of your strength, then you are likely to presume that other players may feel that way too.

From what I hear vast majority of players with both ratings believe their Acf rating to be a somewhat more accurate representation of their true strength.

Garvinator
28-01-2005, 05:12 PM
You may validly argue that the choice lay with sponsors, but it is pretty clear that the sponsors could have chosen to spend more of the invitation money on Australian players (and would have got a lot more bang for the buck).

Pax
as far as i know, most of the money spent was from overseas sponsorship deals for the overseas players ie they are sponsored by accor or related hotels. That is my understanding anyways. Grollo Corporation spent the money in cooperation with accor hotels.

The prize fund was designed by George to attract the titled players by offering them performance bonuses(if you want to call it that). Perform well and you get paid well, dont perform and you dont get paid well.

So in fact George did spend money to attract the titled players(IM's, FM's) just didnt do it in a personal money of offering conditions.

I would like it explained why titled players should be paid just to turn up, regardless of how they perform in the tournament?

Bill Gletsos
28-01-2005, 06:58 PM
OK here we go; Australian players who have possibly played more FIDE-rated games than ACF-rated games in the past 12 months:

Speck, Tindall, Rippis, Dick, Jones, Rogers, Lane, Wohl, Wallace, Viner, Smerdon, Teichmann, Reilly, Feldman, Sorokina, Caoili, Eriksson, Zhao,
Since the original question is based around whether for FIDE rated Australian Events should we use FIDE or ACF ratings then its a bit usesless for you to include players who are not actually playing in any Australian events be they FIDE rated or not.

However that said the following table shows the facts.
The ACF 2004 column shows all normal games rated for that player in the rating periods Mar 2004, Jun 2004, Sept 2004 and Dec 2004. Similarly the ACF 2003 shows the corresponding figures for 2003.
The FIDE column following the ACF 2004 column shows all gamnes for the periods Apr 2004, July 2004, Oct 2004 and Jan 2005. Likewise the FIDE Column following the ACF 2003 column shows the correspeonding periods for the previous 4 periods. This matching of the periods in this way is due to the fact that in heneral games rated in the ACF Dec list would be rated in the corresponding FIDE Jan list.


ACF2004 FIDE ACF2003 FIDE 2003-2004 TOTAL
Speck 0 12 3 3 3 15
Tindall 14 16 8 0 22 16
Rippis 7 10 27 14 34 24
Dick 30 22 57 0 87 22
Jones, B 67 25 63 12 130 37
Jones, L 55 11 25 12 80 23
Rogers 70 83 69 42 139 125
Lane 33 25 37 33 70 58
Wohl 0 92 0 80 0 172
Wallace 0 0 45 17 45 17
Viner 30 21 32 22 62 43
Smerdon 73 67 63 48 136 115
Teichmann 0 0 38 15 38 15
Reilly 25 46 20 20 45 66
Feldman 7 20 9 0 16 20
Sorokina 15 50 19 0 34 50
Caoli 13 9 23 21 36 30
Eriksson 29 23 12 3 41 26
Zhao 44 32 7 0 51 32

For 2003 only Wohl had more FIDE than ACF games.
For 2004 only 8 players, Speck, Tindall, Rippis, Rogers, Wohl, Reilly, Feldman and Sorokina have more FIDE than ACF games.

Now over the 2 year period only 5 players, Speck, Wohl, Reilly, Feldman and Sorokina have more FIDE than ACF games.

However what I found truly amazing is that you didnt realise that the Jones's and Lane played more ACF than FIDE games.

JGB
16-02-2005, 02:09 PM
As we edge a little closer to the 2005 DOEBERL CUP, I can honestly say that I am becoming a little excited as I look forward to one of Australia's premier Chess events (having never played in it).

Being unfarmiliar to the area, I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips, for example is there a good place to stay nearby? Is accomodation in close proximity of the gaming venue, or if not should I consider driving up? Anything thing I should know before I arrive?

Anyone with similar tips for the BEGONIA OPEN CHESS WEEKEND would be much appreciated as well. I plan on playing in Ballarat also.

Libby
16-02-2005, 03:42 PM
As we edge a little closer to the 2005 DOEBERL CUP, I can honestly say that I am becoming a little excited as I look forward to one of Australia's premier Chess events (having never played in it).

Being unfarmiliar to the area, I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips, for example is there a good place to stay nearby? Is accomodation in close proximity of the gaming venue, or if not should I consider driving up? Anything thing I should know before I arrive?

Anyone with similar tips for the BEGONIA OPEN CHESS WEEKEND would be much appreciated as well. I plan on playing in Ballarat also.

There are accommodation ideas on Ian's (excellent) web page http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.htm

You are within walking distance of Manuka with loads of places to eat (very cafe style but also has Maccas etc) and movies, nightclubs, bars.

ACT Public Transport system is OK. Don't forget you will be on a public holiday timetable. But if you stay in the city (which, as with everything, is not far away in Canberra) you should be able to get the bus into Manuka pretty regularly. And probably scrounge a lift back. Check out http://www.action.act.gov.au/routefinder.cfm

Trent Parker
16-02-2005, 06:24 PM
Hey JGB i've played in the Tuggeranong Vikings weekender down Canberra in 2003. The Canberra city Backpackers is excellent for the price. My parents and i sort of had a worry about security of items in Backpackers. But at Canberra city backpackers they have a swipe card to get into your room plus a locker inside the room that can be used for a small deposit.

arosar
16-02-2005, 06:59 PM
Stay at Victor Lodge. That's where I stayed last year. It's a fantastic place with breakfast included in your room rate. It's only 15 mins walk from the venue and there are cool places just around the corner.

AR

JGB
16-02-2005, 07:03 PM
Thanks for the tips guys. They are great :) I am thinking of driving up just so I have the car and can do a bit of touring around the area.

AR: What are these cool places? I heard there are some good pubs in the area?

arosar
16-02-2005, 07:59 PM
Thanks for the tips guys. They are great :) I am thinking of driving up just so I have the car and can do a bit of touring around the area.

AR: What are these cool places? I heard there are some good pubs in the area?

Man I forget the names but there's a coupla pubs there and a youngish sorta bar and that. Manuka, on the way to the venue, is quite hip actually with lotsa birkenstocked baby boomers and over paid public servants.

AR

JGB
16-02-2005, 08:59 PM
Man I forget the names but there's a coupla pubs there and a youngish sorta bar and that. Manuka, on the way to the venue, is quite hip actually with lotsa birkenstocked baby boomers and over paid public servants.

AR

... then thats where I'll be! :eek:

antichrist
17-02-2005, 04:32 AM
Stay at Victor Lodge. That's where I stayed last year. It's a fantastic place with breakfast included in your room rate. It's only 15 mins walk from the venue and there are cool places just around the corner.

AR

You are joking. I just had my second honeymoon there and thought it was a rip off. The place was so basic to be almost primitive. Breakfast was only cereal and sandwiches or toast. Not the bacon and eggs I at least expected. My own place, which certainly is not luxurious, left it for dead.

That honeymoon episode was the one I was threatening to detail every intimate detail, blow by blow, on the BB, but they could not stomach it. You would have needed those previously-mentioned sex therapy lessons again. Libby had accused me of not having real-life experiences. She didn't know I was only watching sexy Serena on TV during breaks to get air.

arosar
17-02-2005, 06:20 AM
You are joking. I just had my second honeymoon there and thought it was a rip off. The place was so basic to be almost primitive. Breakfast was only cereal and sandwiches or toast. Not the bacon and eggs I at least expected. My own place, which certainly is not luxurious, left it for dead.

You stupid cheap moron.

AR

Libby
17-02-2005, 07:39 AM
You are joking. I just had my second honeymoon there and thought it was a rip off. The place was so basic to be almost primitive. Breakfast was only cereal and sandwiches or toast. Not the bacon and eggs I at least expected. My own place, which certainly is not luxurious, left it for dead.

That honeymoon episode was the one I was threatening to detail every intimate detail, blow by blow, on the BB, but they could not stomach it. You would have needed those previously-mentioned sex therapy lessons again. Libby had accused me of not having real-life experiences. She didn't know I was only watching sexy Serena on TV during breaks to get air.

Not sure what I posted amounted to an accusation - only a suggestion that people could be using their time more productively than they were by posting in the wee hours of Saturday morning.

Cheap & cheerful accommodation is the way to go. Maybe you needed to be more realistic? I share the student lament of the cash-strapped (being next to the only stay-at-home mother I know and coming up to almost 14 years of earning no income personally). I'd love the cooked brekky, nice pool and fancy room but tend to end up in the BYO linen and shared bathroom arrangement so I actually having the money to enjoy the event or location I've travelled to.

Ian Rout
17-02-2005, 08:15 AM
Of course the worst people to ask about accommodation are locals, but I'm sure you can trust the advice of seasoned travellers like AR.

The backpackers places in Civic look habitable (and popular) from the outside but are not within reasonable walking distance (if you're fit it can be done), though they are close enough that a quarter-share of a taxi is a viable alternative when a lift isn't available.

As far as public transport goes several services pass through Manuka at peak hours but Sunday and public holiday runs are rarer, and negligible or nil in the evenings. This isn't an option if you are planning on sightseeing but will get you in from Civic in the mornings - routes 35 and 39 look the best on a quick scan.

Bas
17-02-2005, 07:59 PM
Anyone with similar tips for the BEGONIA OPEN CHESS WEEKEND would be much appreciated as well. I plan on playing in Ballarat also.

I have started a 'Ballarat Begonia 2005' thread. It includes some useful websites for further information, as well as the relevant contact-details.

arosar
04-03-2005, 11:25 AM
<bump>

Alrighty...bookings done.

See youse!

AR

adelandre
06-03-2005, 08:13 PM
As we edge a little closer to the 2005 DOEBERL CUP, I can honestly say that I am becoming a little excited as I look forward to one of Australia's premier Chess events (having never played in it).

Being unfarmiliar to the area, I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips, for example is there a good place to stay nearby? Is accomodation in close proximity of the gaming venue, or if not should I consider driving up? Anything thing I should know before I arrive?

Anyone with similar tips for the BEGONIA OPEN CHESS WEEKEND would be much appreciated as well. I plan on playing in Ballarat also.

Have you considered playing in Australia'a other premier Weekender - the Adelaide University Open?

If so, we have accomodation options are available on our website www.unichess.org and Alex (AES) or myself would be most willing to assist you.

Kind Regards,
Andrew

JGB
06-03-2005, 09:43 PM
Have you considered playing in Australia'a other premier Weekender - the Adelaide University Open?

If so, we have accomodation options are available on our website www.unichess.org and Alex (AES) or myself would be most willing to assist you.

Kind Regards,
Andrew

A personal assistant... hmmm how kind. I'm sort of nervous about heading 'back to university' ;)

Paul S
06-03-2005, 10:12 PM
Have you considered playing in Australia'a other premier Weekender - the Adelaide University Open?


I was under the impression that the Ballarat tournament was the "number two" Australian weekender (rather than Adelaide).

What is the rankings (based on tournament numbers and other factors) of the various Australian weekenders? Obviously Doeberl is the number 1 Australian weekender, but which is #2, #3 etc?

Garvinator
06-03-2005, 10:32 PM
I was under the impression that the Ballarat tournament was the "number two" Australian weekender (rather than Adelaide).

What is the rankings (based on tournament numbers and other factors) of the various Australian weekenders? Obviously Doeberl is the number 1 Australian weekender, but which is #2, #3 etc?
and what about the Gold Coast open huh?

antichrist
06-03-2005, 10:33 PM
I was under the impression that the Ballarat tournament was the "number two" Australian weekender (rather than Adelaide).

What is the rankings (based on tournament numbers and other factors) of the various Australian weekenders? Obviously Doeberl is the number 1 Australian weekender, but which is #2, #3 etc?
________________________________________-
Paul,
Just for your info I have included the following:

Brisbane Open - Easter Weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon 26-28 March)

e are pleased to announce that Brisbane now has its own Australian Grand Prix event on the Easter weekend. It is also a rare opportunity to play in an event with championship time controls of 90 mins a side plus 30 secs a move (Fischer). There will be 6 rounds, with two rounds a day at 10am and 3pm. The tournament will be an ACF Grand Prix category 2 event with $1,500 in prize money. The location is the Marymac Centre at 616 Ipswich Road Annerley. This venue is carpeted, air-conditioned and with good lighting. It has a canteen and bar - and the parking is good.

Prizes: 1st $400, 2nd $300, 3rd $200 plus three ratings prizes of $200 each.
Entry Fees: Adults $65, Concession $55, Juniors $45 (all entry fees discounted by $10 if received before 25 March).
GMs, IMs & FMs, and all players with an ACF Main, or FIDE rating of 2000+ enter free of charge (must enter before 25 March).

Whilst we encourage local players to go to the Doeberl Cup in Canberra, we realise for the majority of players this is probably not possible for various reasons. Hence we wish to give Brisbane chess players in particular, and Queenslanders in general, this new opportunity.
________________________________________

It is a Grand Prix event as well!!!

Alan Shore
07-03-2005, 12:55 AM
I was under the impression that the Ballarat tournament was the "number two" Australian weekender (rather than Adelaide).

What is the rankings (based on tournament numbers and other factors) of the various Australian weekenders? Obviously Doeberl is the number 1 Australian weekender, but which is #2, #3 etc?

This is on a number of factors. To name a few:

-Number of (quality) players in attendance
-Venue Location
-Activities
-Atmosphere and layout
-Entry Fees : Prizes ratio

Quite obviously, it will be an exercise in subjectivity. From my own personal experience, the best weekender I have played in meeting these criteria has been the Adelaide Uni Open.

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 01:01 AM
i do think that adding an u1600 division is going to help adelaide's tournament. I hope that an u1600 division is something that Ballarat is looking at, especially as they are at the 128/7 rounds number.

eclectic
07-03-2005, 02:33 AM
i do think that adding an u1600 division is going to help adelaide's tournament. I hope that an u1600 division is something that Ballarat is looking at, especially as they are at the 128/7 rounds number.

why do you think they call these tourneys "open" ?

do we need to add an u1600 caboose behind such opens so that the ratings challenged can play it safe?

what next?

box hill type cross pollinated pseudo-divisions?

probably not as i have a feeling that under fide laws such a tournament design would be illegal

then again if we want to introduce such divisions let's be consistent and rename events

begonia cup
gold coast cup
adelaide cup
victorian cup
queen's birthday weekender cup
etc

given that if ratings based entry restrictions were to be introduced they don't deserve to be called "open"

let's put in u2000 divisions as well

...

in fairness if quite a few events were to have premier, u2000, u1600 divisions it could help the waivering grand prix concept regain some solidity

eclectic

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 03:55 AM
why do you think they call these tourneys "open" ?

well actually, except for doeberl, from my understanding, any player can still play in the higher division, so the tournament is still open.
The point I was making is that most of the major weekenders now have an u1600 division ie Doeberl, adelaide, gold coast, nsw open etc. I was just remarking because Ballarat doesnt and they are now at the 128/7 entries stage where either two divisions or eight rounds will have to be considered.


do we need to add an u1600 caboose behind such opens so that the ratings challenged can play it safe?
judging by the amount of ppl who are under the rating cut off and play in them, they are popular and isnt that what organisers are supposed to do? Organise a tournament structure that will get the most amount of bums on seats as well attract the best players.


then again if we want to introduce such divisions let's be consistent and rename events

begonia cup
gold coast cup
adelaide cup
victorian cup
queen's birthday weekender cup
etc

given that if ratings based entry restrictions were to be introduced they don't deserve to be called "open"
already answered this point in my first quoted reply.


let's put in u2000 divisions as well

in fairness if quite a few events were to have premier, u2000, u1600 divisions it could help the waivering grand prix concept regain some solidity as gp co ordinator, it would make my job a bit easier to have the tourneys in three divisions of open, u2000, u1600 ;)

ursogr8
07-03-2005, 08:16 AM
<snip>

what next?

box hill type cross pollinated pseudo-divisions?

probably not as i have a feeling that under fide laws such a tournament design would be illegal

<snip>

eclectic

Thanks eclectic, we had been trying to find a catchy-title for our local variation. I will submit yours to the powers to see if it matches what they are looking for. :rolleyes:

We have submitted none of these events for FIDE rating (in my memory), so, we are unlikely to have done anything illegal.

Fortunately, the ACF rating system is much more sensible as it rates games between consenting players (irrespective of how others in the room have been paired), so all results are acceptable for ACF rating. ;)

starter

pax
07-03-2005, 10:57 AM
why do you think they call these tourneys "open" ?

do we need to add an u1600 caboose behind such opens so that the ratings challenged can play it safe?

For a large and popular weekender, it simply becomes necessary to add divisions if the numbers get too large.

A seven round swiss with over 200 players is a total waste of time. There is no way of adding extra rounds without reducing time limits, so you simply have to add divisions to try to drive the number per event somewhere below 100.

Oepty
07-03-2005, 11:19 AM
I can not completely talk for Andrew, but I have a feeling that Andrew was not so much saying that the University Open is better than Ballarat or the NSW Open or any other weekender. Instead I think he was saying it should be talked about as one of Australia's premier weekenders like Ballarat or the Doeberl Cup and probably a couple of others. Having said that I would personally find it hard to believe the University Open is outside the top three in Australia. This is not just based on numbers who play, as it would be a bit unfair given the far lower number of players in the tournament locality compared to other places, but the other things Bruce mentioned above. The fact that the Under 1600 is sponsored by a school indicates most of the reason that there is such a tournament, to cater for juniors. It is also an atempt to reduce the yo-yo factor that occurred in last years tournament. Just look at the field Alex Saint played last year for instance and you will see the problem. SA lacks players of 1800-2000 rating which partially causes this problem.

The_Wise_Man
07-03-2005, 12:59 PM
that a seven round swiss should have a maximum of 128 players to determine an absolute winner....

Numbers like the over 200 that show up at Doeberl would mean that there is the possibility of there being two players on 7/7 and they would not have played each other...

and hence why divisions need to be used...

Wise

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 01:39 PM
that a seven round swiss should have a maximum of 128 players to determine an absolute winner....

Numbers like the over 200 that show up at Doeberl would mean that there is the possibility of there being two players on 7/7 and they would not have played each other...

and hence why divisions need to be used...

Wise
that was my point about ballarat ;)

pax
07-03-2005, 01:49 PM
that a seven round swiss should have a maximum of 128 players to determine an absolute winner....


And ideally the number should be significantly lower than this, due to the effect of draws and so on. That is you want the winner to have played not only the #2 player, but perhaps 3 or 4 of the top finishers. None of this guarantees an outright winner of course, but it means the final scores have a better chance of reflecting the true performances of the players.

Here's a good example:

In the Ballarat Begonia last year (7 rounds, 118 players), none of the top four finishers (6.5 and 6 points) played each other. None of the top four played more than 2 of the top 9 finishers (Smerdon played only 1 of the top 14).

In the Doeberl (7 rounds, ~74 players), the top five finishers (6 and 5.5 points) all played at least one of the top five and most played two. The winner (Zhao) played 4 of the top 9.

Ian Rout
07-03-2005, 02:51 PM
The other side of the coin is that the U/1600 division also becomes a fairer contest among the players at that level. In a full field the U/1600 prize is often won by the player who can get the easiest run home. A player who starts well finds themselves up with players hundreds of points higher and gets knocked back to the field, whereas in the Doeberl Minor the contenders for the prize are playing each other.

The experience is that 80-85% of U/1600 players do choose to play the Minor; in 2004 there were 96 U/1600 players of who 16 played in the Major.

Of course some players do prefer single-section tournaments where they have the opportunity to beat Ian Rogers, and for those players there are many tournmaments in that format.

Oepty
07-03-2005, 03:16 PM
The other side of the coin is that the U/1600 division also becomes a fairer contest among the players at that level. In a full field the U/1600 prize is often won by the player who can get the easiest run home. A player who starts well finds themselves up with players hundreds of points higher and gets knocked back to the field, whereas in the Doeberl Minor the contenders for the prize are playing each other.

The experience is that 80-85% of U/1600 players do choose to play the Minor; in 2004 there were 96 U/1600 players of who 16 played in the Major.

Of course some players do prefer single-section tournaments where they have the opportunity to beat Ian Rogers, and for those players there are many tournmaments in that format.

At a quick glance I noticed that at least 9 of the 16 players were juniors and I think 7 of them now have ratings over 1600.
Scott

Recherché
07-03-2005, 04:04 PM
I don't have much to add, I merely wanted to say that I'm hoping to play in the Minor at Doeberl this year and I'm really looking forward to it! :)

arosar
07-03-2005, 04:17 PM
We should make this Doeberl like our defacto annual chesschat get-together.

AR

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 04:26 PM
I don't have much to add, I merely wanted to say that I'm hoping to play in the Minor at Doeberl this year and I'm really looking forward to it! :)
and hoping for a similiar result to the mt buller minor i take it ;)

Recherché
07-03-2005, 05:42 PM
and hoping for a similiar result to the mt buller minor i take it ;)

Hope springs eternal. :)

I don't expect to be fifth seed at Doeberl, though. I count 17 entrants out of 80 from last year that are above my current rating.

Alan Shore
07-03-2005, 06:59 PM
We should make this Doeberl like our defacto annual chesschat get-together.

AR

That'd be really nice.. unfortunately I can't make it. Looking at the amount of uni work due around then for me, my chances of playing dived from 10% to 0%. Hopefully I'll see any of you that make it to the Aus Championship at the end of the year, or if you venture north before then.

jenni
07-03-2005, 07:09 PM
I don't have much to add, I merely wanted to say that I'm hoping to play in the Minor at Doeberl this year and I'm really looking forward to it! :)

Make sure you are prepared for all the vicious ACT Juniors who tend to populate the minor...

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 07:20 PM
Make sure you are prepared for all the vicious ACT Juniors who tend to populate the minor...
and that is why some adult players who could play in the minor choose instead to play in the major.

Thunderspirit
07-03-2005, 07:28 PM
Everyone knows that Doeberl is a great event, it has a few key factors that make it so.

One is the fact it draws so many players, and that everyone knows that it's on every Easter. I've always considered it to be more than just a tourament, it's like a big family reuinion where all the black sheep of the family catch up for 4 days of fun, silliness and the odd game of chess. There are players who I only see at Doeberl each year, that's the only event they play.

Other major factor is the breakdown of the event into 3 seperate events. Most players like to play players around their own rating. Some like this for different reasons, but it's popular.

Linked to this is the huge particpation of players in the minor. The minor attracts close to half the field, though a much smaller perecentage of the prizes. The excess entry fees helps to support the larger prizes at the top of the field. While some players whinge about this, I believe it MY RESPONSIBILITY to support Australia's top players in this case with some of my entry fee. While I always wanted to win the minor, it certanlly wasn't for the money, I could of stayed in Sydney and worked at Coles.

One idea that has been thrown around for a while is a U1200 tournament at Doeberl, an event I will call the 'The Mini' or perhaps the 'Mini Minor'. I know one BB poster who believes it should be called the 'Lottery'. I think it would be good for those players to have a chance at winning an event. One down side is that it will need another $1000 in prizes, which adds to the finanical strain on the event, but I believe it would serve a purpose.

I have to apologize that I won't be at Doeberl this year for the first time in 10 years, as I will still be OS. I would urge anyone who hasn't played to give it ago, it's a great event with a cool vibe.

And to Lib and Jen, try and get as many kiddies as you can into the event, so one day it Doeberl can crack 250!

Garvinator
07-03-2005, 08:00 PM
One idea that has been thrown around for a while is a U1200 tournament at Doeberl, an event I will call the 'The Mini' or perhaps the 'Mini Minor'. I know one BB poster who believes it should be called the 'Lottery'. I think it would be good for those players to have a chance at winning an event. One down side is that it will need another $1000 in prizes, which adds to the finanical strain on the event, but I believe it would serve a purpose.
an u1200 event wouldnt be a bad idea at all as it might take out some of the under rated juniors from the minor. This can only help in the long run

Thunderspirit
07-03-2005, 08:16 PM
The U1200 does serve that purpose, of taking some juniors out of the minor, but that's not the real reason for having the event as such. It adds to the prestige, and gives a couple of kids an hour of fame.

As for under rated juniors. I'm all for 'em, they can take as many rating points as they like from me!

jenni
07-03-2005, 11:19 PM
And to Lib and Jen, try and get as many kiddies as you can into the event, so one day it Doeberl can crack 250!

We are doing our best. :)

Gossip on the junior circuit, is that there might be fewer kids, particularly NSW and Vic, this year, due to it being in term time.

jenni
07-03-2005, 11:25 PM
an u1200 event wouldnt be a bad idea at all as it might take out some of the under rated juniors from the minor. This can only help in the long run

I like Lee's idea of giving the kids something to aim for. However as far as helping in the long run - the main thing that can help is to have them playing in a pool where there ratings can self correct. Stick a bunch of improving juniors in an under 1200 pool and all it will do is improve their game play, while plateauing their ratings. Thus they cause even more damage when playing in an open comp.

I also think very few of the 700 to 1200 juniors would want to play in an under 1200. They want to play in an under 1600 to maximise their hard games and rating gains.

Trent Parker
08-03-2005, 09:52 AM
*Note to self* *If playing in Doeberl play well enough to avoid playing underrated juniors* :lol: :lol:

Rincewind
08-03-2005, 09:55 AM
*Note to self* *If playing in Doeberl play well enough to avoid playing underrated juniors* :lol: :lol:

Or bad enough. ;)

antichrist
08-03-2005, 12:38 PM
to avoid as many under-rated juniors as possible....
(including the ones that cheat and then are given favourable treatment by the organisers....)

I have only ever accused the angelic one of those tactics

Recherché
08-03-2005, 01:21 PM
Make sure you are prepared for all the vicious ACT Juniors who tend to populate the minor...

I've been forged in the fires of Box Hill Chess Club here in Melbourne, so vicious juniors hold no special fears for me. I actually quite like getting paired up against a junior, even though their ratings tend to be on the lean side - often they play very interesting chess.

Alan Shore
08-03-2005, 01:52 PM
I've been forged in the fires of Box Hill Chess Club here in Melbourne, so vicious juniors hold no special fears for me. I actually quite like getting paired up against a junior, even though their ratings tend to be on the lean side - often they play very interesting chess.

I may have said this before but playing against juniors requires a certain strategy, an 'anti-junior strategy' if you will. Follow this plan friends and you should find that elusive success.

1/ Play either a less well known opening, or an opening you are very proficient with... juniors are notorious bookbashers but if you can get them out of book early it could be a quick bash.

2/ Positional play is a necessity. Juniors can be great at spotting tactics but often they don't understand positional play. Get those outposts going, think about pawn structure etc.

3/ Attack, attack! Juniors sometimes play passive openings like KIA and if you sit back they'll come get you once they've built up, so attack the hell out of them first and sometimes they'll crumble under pressure.

4/ Play for an endgame (my personal favourite). Juniors always seem to be much weaker at endgame play.. positionalise those rooks, use your diagonals and rush those pawns up the board as fast as possible.

When you play a lot of Gold Coast tourns, odds on you'll play at least a couple of juniors per tournament, so I've got plenty of experience. Now go forth and teach those upstarts a lesson!

arosar
08-03-2005, 02:05 PM
Vladimir Smirnov says, go to endgame. Kids don't know endgame.

AR

Rincewind
08-03-2005, 03:55 PM
Vladimir Smirnov says, go to endgame. Kids don't know endgame.

Yes, in my experience this is also true of adult players reasonably lower rated than yourself (in general) unless they are a senior who is losing their tactical edge. (I would recommend it against Fell, for example).

However, other things being equal, if you are 250+ higher rated than your opponent you probably know more endgames then they do and can often pick up very easy points in this stage of the game.

Players of all levels though have their pet openings and you can walk into a minefield, if you are not careful. So keep it simple and aim to go into a favourable endgame is a good plan rather than sac'ing a piece for a brilliant mid-game checkmate.

Perhaps ironically juniors also tire and get bored easily so if the time control permits it is usually in the adult's favour to play slowly.

rob
08-03-2005, 04:40 PM
ggray
an u1200 event wouldnt be a bad idea at all as it might take out some of the under rated juniors from the minor. This can only help in the long run

liberaci
As for under rated juniors. I'm all for 'em, they can take as many rating points as they like from me!

jenni
I also think very few of the 700 to 1200 juniors would want to play in an under 1200. They want to play in an under 1600 to maximise their hard games and rating gains.

The chess nut
*Note to self* *If playing in Doeberl play well enough to avoid playing underrated juniors*

the wise man
to avoid as many under-rated juniors as possible....

Recherche
I actually quite like getting paired up against a junior, even though their ratings tend to be on the lean side - often they play very interesting chess.

Perhaps the above six posters have not considered that these juniors are correctly rated, based on the evidence of their previous performances. If they gain many points from other players at the Doeberl, then it could be argued that these other players are relatively over-rated and should have their ratings reduced :)

Garvinator
08-03-2005, 04:44 PM
Perhaps the above six posters have not considered that these juniors are correctly rated, based on the evidence of their previous performances.
there is no disagreement on this point, but what I am saying is that based on their current playing strength(from playing in junior rapid non rated tournaments), they are under rated. Also some adults just dont like playing juniors or against alot of juniors.

Libby
08-03-2005, 07:14 PM
there is no disagreement on this point, but what I am saying is that based on their current playing strength(from playing in junior rapid non rated tournaments), they are under rated. Also some adults just dont like playing juniors or against alot of juniors.

Well explain to me exactly why?

Don't you want a good game of chess?

If you get a good game - why does it matter if the opponent was 8 or 80?

And don't trot out some twaddle about chess being unique in getting beaten up by little kids. Try being a woman in sport. Girls are likely to be playing some pretty hot netball or softball (in my experience) at anything from 12-16 years of age. When I was 19 or 20 that didn't seem too bad but getting run off your feet or watching the ball sail back over your head (and over the fence) can become a fairly common occurrence as you get over 30 and maybe your rotator cuff is not what it used to be.

In the end, just like chess, you rely on a little guile, a little cunning and a smidge more experience (or even on the netball court - your slightly bigger arse) to get you over the line. However, now and then (such as when the ACT U14 netball team was plonked in my grade for "practice") you just have to accept they are better than you. And if you really want to beat them, you just might have to put in the same amount of work they do by training etc.

Get over the rating issue. Juniors will always have somewhat unreliable ratings as they hit bursts of improvement or plateau or blunder or get tired & bored (hint - make Kayleigh play for more than an hour and see what happens). They might have diddled around in some tiny ratings pool for too long and be grossly underrated the first time you meet them in a major event. Who knows and why does it matter so much that it is endlessly argued?

Don't you either enjoy playing or not enjoy playing? Isn't it a good game or not a good game? My batting average and pitching ERA (earned run average) was better playing women's social softball than it was when they made me play the tough grades populated by many younger players. In the end, I was playing because I liked it. Why do you play?

antichrist
08-03-2005, 07:42 PM
We have had state championships (and Sydney Easter Cup) won by juniors yet the top players don't complain, as far as I know, so it is only the strugglers who don't like the Bart Simpson treatment.

I think it is sour grapes.

arosar
08-03-2005, 09:33 PM
Some bloke on playchess is telling me that if I pay entry before 18 Mar I get $20 discount. Is that right?

AR

jenni
08-03-2005, 10:13 PM
Some bloke on playchess is telling me that if I pay entry before 18 Mar I get $20 discount. Is that right?

AR

Yes that is correct - adults get a $20 discount and under 18 a $10 discount.

Garvinator
09-03-2005, 01:21 AM
Hello moderators,

Can you please move from post 93 onwards to this thread: http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=667&highlight=scorebook it is clearly a more relevant thread for this topic.

Trent Parker
09-03-2005, 07:59 AM
Hello moderators,

Can you please move from post 93 onwards to this thread: http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=667&highlight=scorebook it is clearly a more relevant thread for this topic.

Done! (eventually :D )

jenni
09-03-2005, 02:08 PM
Done! (eventually :D )

Can you please move back my reply to Amiel re discounts (it has nothing to do with cheating).

Also if you are going to remove my reply to wiseman on cheating, then you also need to move his cheating post that started it off.......(Otherwise he is able to make allegations of cheating in this thread with no rebuttal).

The_Wise_Man
09-03-2005, 04:34 PM
Move the messages.... hide the facts.... call them allegations....
That's fine.... Let me make my point here and now!

The point is this: "there are juniors that cheat down in Canberra and people should look out for this when entering the Doeberl Cup (esp U1400...) and the Organisers take lenient views on them because they are juniors....
Its an adult tournament. Lets all try and play fairly!"

That's my point.... its a warning for this years Doeberl Cup... and not a rehash of what I have mentioned before....

Wise

jenni
09-03-2005, 04:46 PM
I agree with Wise Man - I don't believe the info should have been moved off thread. Wiseman continues to make totally ridiculous allegations about Canberra kids (notice his plurals) and attack the Doeberl organising committee, the current Australian Champion and the Zonal Champion and an ex (and the most effective in my chess lifetime) ACF President. (and me - in brackets, cos I don't think I can really mention me with the other two :) ).

All because a mug kid broke rules he didn't even know existed.

For goodness sake get a life and get over it already.

My last word on the subject, becasue it is too pathetic to continue with.

Garvinator
09-03-2005, 04:47 PM
Move the messages.... hide the facts.... call them allegations....
That's fine.... Let me make my point here and now!

How is anything being hidden. I asked for the thread to be moved to the thread that had previously being created for discussion of this same issue. In a way I am one of the ppl who questioned the selection of the appeals committee, so i gave this thread legs. So there was no attempt to hide it or cover it up. Again it was moved to the appropriate thread. Maybe your only rehashing this topic is to trash Doeberl?


The point is this: "there are juniors that cheat down in Canberra and people should look out for this when entering the Doeberl Cup (esp U1400...) and the Organisers take lenient views on them because they are juniors....
Its an adult tournament. Lets all try and play fairly!"
You are wrong here wise man, or not so wise man in this case. It is an open tournament, which everyone can play in. So juniors have just as much right as adults to play in Doeberl. In my opinion, this then means that ALL players play under fide laws of chess and are equally subject to penalties.
It is not an adult tournament. In fact it is a gp cat 3 event which has a gp junior division.
That's my point.... its a warning for this years Doeberl Cup... and not a rehash of what I have mentioned before....

Wise[/QUOTE]

The_Wise_Man
09-03-2005, 05:26 PM
I agree with Wise Man - I don't believe the info should have been moved off thread. Wiseman continues to make totally ridiculous allegations about Canberra kids (notice his plurals) and attack the Doeberl organising committee, the current Australian Champion and the Zonal Champion and an ex (and the most effective in my chess lifetime) ACF President. (and me - in brackets, cos I don't think I can really mention me with the other two :) ).

All because a mug kid broke rules he didn't even know existed.

For goodness sake get a life and get over it already.

My last word on the subject, becasue it is too pathetic to continue with.

I have not made attacks on individuals mentioned.... I believe that you Jenni have a bias towards juniors and a bias towards Canberrans.... But that should be apparent.... nothing against you there....its natural to support the area that you have put so much effort into.... you should have not sat on that committee due to conflict of interest.


All because a mug kid broke rules he didn't even know existed.

No excuse.... Not a valid argument...
You get disqualified for a mobile phone ring but not for blatant cheating!
No justice in the world... is there....

Libby
09-03-2005, 06:00 PM
No excuse.... Not a valid argument...
You get disqualified for a mobile phone ring but not for blatant cheating!
No justice in the world... is there....

OK - Juniors (plural). How many have you observed cheating? How many incidents can you show us?

We are pretty tough on it locally. Ask any child who played our Autumn Weekender last weekend where one little (and inexperienced) boy attempted a take back. Did he get away with it? Did we let it slide? Is it condoned? Or is it stamped on in the strongest terms? I have taken some time (on the other thread) to detail the possibly deliberate and ongoing cheating of an adult and I have heard varying excuses from "they're old" to "they're a very nice person."

I have seen adults cheat. I have seen adults apply constant double standards where they will chat or analyse at the table but any child rustling paper bears the full brunt of their wrath!

I have seen adults fail to shake hands with juniors because the adult is sulking over losing to a child.

How much more pathetic adult behaviour would you like details of?

But actually, most are pretty good, pretty forgiving and foster the participation of juniors in the game.

Others are w**k**s

antichrist
09-03-2005, 06:26 PM
Libby,
You are a champ, I will have to remember to stay on the right side of you.

arosar
09-03-2005, 07:13 PM
Alright...shut up already.

Listen I need a bit of help here...or rather one my of my parent friends. She's a single-mum + child and they are planning to come down. Problem is, she knows no one down there and would prefer to stay a room or apartment or whatever where she can be with other parents.

Do any NSW people know any parent that my mate here can stay/travel with? PM reply pls.

Cheers,

AR

JGB
09-03-2005, 08:35 PM
Anyone: Regarding the Tornament, I have noticed that I need to buy an ACTCA membership as I am not a member of any Australian "Chess Association" (I suspect this is only Australia, as I am still a full paying registered German player). This is no drama really, although is it possible for me to buy a Victorian Membership without joining an individaul club or must I have an ACTCA membership? Or wont this matter? I am new to the idea of belonging to a Chess Association here.

eclectic
09-03-2005, 09:54 PM
Anyone: Regarding the Tornament, I have noticed that I need to buy an ACTCA membership as I am not a member of any Australian "Chess Association" (I suspect this is only Australia, as I am still a full paying registered German player). This is no drama really, although is it possible for me to buy a Victorian Membership without joining an individaul club or must I have an ACTCA membership? Or wont this matter? I am new to the idea of belonging to a Chess Association here.

i'm sure starter would love to have you as a member of box hill and then you would "indirectly" be a member of chess victoria inc.

anyway victoria's non direct membership system makes things confusing

there are probably a few (rural) players who [have no access to a club and] are "registered" by virtue of being established players on the master or current rating list

we could wish for a uniform membership system in australia

but then i might as well send you an advance invitation to my funeral

the latter would most likely get to you sooner

;)

eclectic

Mischa
09-03-2005, 10:45 PM
It is an interesting situation, and one my junior faced last year in his first official "adult" tournament. Not being a member of any club meant he had to pay extra to join the tournament. I understand why, I think, but in Victoria it is a bit weird. He is now a member of 2 clubs, soon to be 3, as that is the only way he can play at 2 of them. So he will be affiliated 3 times over...discount for bulk?

ursogr8
10-03-2005, 07:01 AM
It is an interesting situation, and one my junior faced last year in his first official "adult" tournament. Not being a member of any club meant he had to pay extra to join the tournament. I understand why,
Aha, noidea,.....that is a step forward. From memory that was one of your first posts on this bb, and the one that 'outed' you when you asked the same question a day later at the VIC OPEN entry.


...., but in Victoria it is a bit weird.
'Weird'....perhaps you mean 'different'.




He is now a member of 2 clubs, soon to be 3, as that is the only way he can play at 2 of them. So he will be affiliated 3 times over

No noidea; he will be affiliated with only one Club. The list of players affiliated with their home club is maintained by the VICTORIAN Registrar.


...discount for bulk?

Read my comment above and then decide your course of action. ;)

regards
starter

Recherché
10-03-2005, 09:49 AM
Perhaps the above six posters have not considered that these juniors are correctly rated, based on the evidence of their previous performances. If they gain many points from other players at the Doeberl, then it could be argued that these other players are relatively over-rated and should have their ratings reduced :)

I didn't say they were incorrectly rated, for what it's worth. I've never been in the "juniors are underrated, it's the end of civilization!" camp.

It's just that a 1600 junior tends to be a tougher opponent, most of the time, than a 1600 adult - for the simple reason that juniors are more likely to be still improving, to be receiving active coaching, and also to care about the result of every game they play.

With the exception of the fact I haven't had coaching, I'm actually more comparable to a junior player than an adult player myself. I'm new to chess and still improving, and as such my rating is "leaner" than you might expect of another adult at the same level.


I may have said this before but playing against juniors requires a certain strategy, an 'anti-junior strategy' if you will. Follow this plan friends and you should find that elusive success.

I prefer the more simple approach of:

1. Play your best chess in every game.

2. Never make a move automatically or by habit (still working on enforcing this one :D).

JGB
10-03-2005, 10:50 AM
I prefer the more simple approach of:

1. Play your best chess in every game.

2. Never make a move automatically or by habit (still working on enforcing this one :D).

Point 1: Thats a great way of trying to play, and if you can do it, good luck to you! ;)
I wish i could play my best chess all of the time, but I find I wil play different variations against certain players, and juniors in particular. Im not a robot and I like to mix it up a bit, sometimes it enforces my belief in the 'main line' once again. :)
As for point 2; this is indeed a prerequisite of becoming a strong chess player.

shaun
10-03-2005, 01:01 PM
Anyone: Regarding the Tornament, I have noticed that I need to buy an ACTCA membership as I am not a member of any Australian "Chess Association" (I suspect this is only Australia, as I am still a full paying registered German player). This is no drama really, although is it possible for me to buy a Victorian Membership without joining an individaul club or must I have an ACTCA membership? Or wont this matter? I am new to the idea of belonging to a Chess Association here.

Avoiding my usual and obvious criticisms of the VCA membership structure, the short answer is ...
If are not able to join your local state association the Doeberl Cup organisers will either a) get you to join the ACTCA or b) treat you as an overseas player. We're pretty flexible in how we let people play in the tournament (unless you are banned by you local association or are an unnaproved withdrawer from previous years).

Bill Gletsos
10-03-2005, 01:48 PM
Avoiding my usual and obvious criticisms of the VCA membership structure, the short answer is ...That is sure to earn the ire of starter and other mexicans. After all he is always telling me how great a structure it is. ;)

ursogr8
10-03-2005, 02:06 PM
That is sure to earn the ire of starter and other mexicans. After all he is always telling me how great a structure it is. ;)

No Bill,
no ire.

Shaun's criticisms are not known to me so I didn't know the specifics. Second, he said they were 'obvious' criticisms, but of course he would have had in mind a better part of the population than this black duck.

The tournament entry criteria for Doeberl should not be criticised because they have the runs on the board as the largest and most successful. (Good luck btw guys).

Entirely JGB's fault that he did not know the answer. :uhoh:

starter

Bill Gletsos
10-03-2005, 02:20 PM
No Bill,
no ire.

Shaun's criticisms are not known to me so I didn't know the specifics. Second, he said they were 'obvious' criticisms, but of course he would have had in mind a better part of the population than this black duck.Yes but I thought you were the defender of the faith when it comes to clubs and the CV membership scheme.

The tournament entry criteria for Doeberl should not be criticised because they have the runs on the board as the largest and most successful. (Good luck btw guys).I have no idea why you raised this as I made no criticism of their tournament entry criteria.

Entirely JGB's fault that he did not know the answer. :uhoh: :doh: ;)

pax
10-03-2005, 04:41 PM
Shaun's criticisms are not known to me so I didn't know the specifics. Second, he said they were 'obvious' criticisms, but of course he would have had in mind a better part of the population than this black duck.

What do people in Vic do if they cannot attend weekly Club meetings, but only weekenders?

eclectic
10-03-2005, 05:00 PM
What do people in Vic do if they cannot attend weekly Club meetings, but only weekenders?

i think they pay slighty extra to cover acf rating fees or are "invited" to "provisionally" join the club hosting the event ??
ie drouin open - non affiliated club - all that business - yada yada

[over to you, starter ... ;) ]


eclectic

ursogr8
10-03-2005, 05:02 PM
What do people in Vic do if they cannot attend weekly Club meetings, but only weekenders?

pax

I was trying to give the vibes to Bill that these sort of questions don't belong on the Doeberl thread. The tourney organisers work hard enough without their beautiful thread being mixed in with Mexican idiosyncracies. :uhoh:

But you seem to be a good Joe (loved your work on the Mt B. results); so, I will have a go at answering.

If the week-ender is run by an Affiliated Club then (like their NSW counterparts) they need to join sumfink. They could join any one of a number of affiliated Clubs. (Examples: $65 at Box Hill..<when our membership books are not closed>; $30 at Whitehorse; $?? at MCC; $10 probably at Dark Horse; $?? at Dandenong). Failing that they can pay a registration amount, eg $10 last year at the VIC OPEN, for one tourney.

If the week-ender is run by a non-Affiliated promoter then he names his own price (but they don't post here).

regards
starter

JGB
10-03-2005, 05:08 PM
Entirely JGB's fault that he did not know the answer. :uhoh:
starter

Ok, i'll just join a chess club and stop asking questions! :rolleyes: ... Like, why should I have to join a chess club at all? Perhaps I want to represent myslef as a player and not an individaul assciation, be that a club or state?

Fee paying is fine! Can I join The Australian Chess Federation please! Where do I send my money? :P

ursogr8
10-03-2005, 05:17 PM
Ok, i'll just join a chess club and stop asking questions! :rolleyes: ... Like, why should I have to join a chess club at all? Perhaps I want to represent myslef as a player and not an individaul assciation, be that a club or state?

Fee paying is fine! Can I join The Australian Chess Federation please! Where do I send my money? :P

JGB

I was being sardonic, given Bill was on a troll.
The Doeberl blokes have given the answer you sought earlier in the thread (#108).

hoping you are otherwise having a nice day
regards
starter

JGB
10-03-2005, 05:27 PM
JGB

I was being sardonic, given Bill was on a troll.
The Doeberl blokes have given the answer you sought earlier in the thread (#108).

hoping you are otherwise having a nice day
regards
starter

It's always a nice day for me when im here, in your company. :)

Alan Shore
10-03-2005, 08:15 PM
It's always a nice day for me when im here, in your company. :)

Awwwwwwwwwwwww! :rolleyes:

Mischa
10-03-2005, 08:46 PM
I think I made the same argument earlier didn't I Trevor?
Why do you have to join? I seem to remember some discussion on this last year.

ursogr8
11-03-2005, 06:39 AM
I think I made the same argument earlier didn't I Trevor?
Why do you have to join? I seem to remember some discussion on this last year.

Yes, you made the same argument. And I answered. And then Bill helped us out with an even better answer... and that is the one you should re-read. ;)
If you want to re-read his answer then SEARCH is your friend according to Bill.

starter

Recherché
11-03-2005, 02:25 PM
Point 1: Thats a great way of trying to play, and if you can do it, good luck to you! ;)
I wish i could play my best chess all of the time, but I find I wil play different variations against certain players, and juniors in particular. Im not a robot and I like to mix it up a bit, sometimes it enforces my belief in the 'main line' once again. :)

I play different variations, but I don't usually pick them out based on my opponent. Typically the time control, my mood, and random whim decide the matter. Most of the time I'm out of my personal "book" within a few moves in any case.

My basic philosophy is that I can never know my opponent's game as well as I know my own. Therefore it makes more sense always to try to play into my own strengths, regardless of my opponent, than to try to judge what my opponent's weaknesses are. After all, one would hope that my strengths, if I'm good enough, would become relative weaknesses for my opponent.

I'm not against preparing for specific opponents, especially if there are games extant which can give me an idea of the lines they prefer. But I wouldn't usually move away from my own strengths in the hope my opponent might also be uncomfortable. And I wouldn't make guesses about an opponent's preferred playing style based on such broad categories as age or rating.

Alan Shore
15-03-2005, 09:51 AM
Was just looking at the entry fees... it's a little disappointing there are concessions for U18 but not for students. Most tournaments support concessions for students, who pay their own entry fees (not parents) and are surely the poorest demographic.

*Waits for Shaun's obligatory scathing comment*

shaun
15-03-2005, 09:55 AM
Was just looking at the entry fees... it's a little disappointing there are concessions for U18 but not for students. Most tournaments support concessions for students, who pay their own entry fees (not parents) and are surely the poorest demographic.

*Waits for Shaun's obligatory scathing comment*

Not at all Dion. In the tournaments where I have control over the budget (which doesn't include the Doeberl Cup), I almost always insist on the concessions going to the "unwaged", which usually includes students.

Rincewind
15-03-2005, 09:59 AM
Not at all Dion. In the tournaments where I have control over the budget (which doesn't include the Doeberl Cup), I almost always insist on the concessions going to the "unwaged", which usually includes students.

The same criteria apply to all club events at Wollongong. (Just in case anyone was wondering).

Alan Shore
15-03-2005, 10:03 AM
Not at all Dion. In the tournaments where I have control over the budget (which doesn't include the Doeberl Cup), I almost always insist on the concessions going to the "unwaged", which usually includes students.

OK, no worries. I'll probably put in my entry today.

Libby
15-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Most tournaments support concessions for students, who pay their own entry fees (not parents) and are surely the poorest demographic.

Have never had less disposable income in my life than I have now as a parent.

I won't dispute your student poverty ;) but one income supports 5 people in this house. Not all of us "parents" are flush with cash you know. Especially those of us funding travel & trips for children who play state level sports of any description.

Obviously my husband needed to assess my career aspirations more accurately before marrying me. Although he did meet me in my capacity as a sports volunteer ... I imagine he thought I'd take on paid employment more seriously at some stage :rolleyes:

JGB
15-03-2005, 01:42 PM
Have never had less disposable income in my life than I have now as a parent.

I won't dispute your student poverty ;) but one income supports 5 people in this house. Not all of us "parents" are flush with cash you know. Especially those of us funding travel & trips for children who play state level sports of any description.

Obviously my husband needed to assess my career aspirations more accurately before marrying me. Although he did meet me in my capacity as a sports volunteer ... I imagine he thought I'd take on paid employment more seriously at some stage :rolleyes:

In some ways unemployed and students are very well treated in Australia in comparison to overseas. Unemployed, and over 18 Student discount is rarley encounted outside of Australia, for example movie tickets, or theme park entrance. The reasoning I always got was that the unemployed and students should not be paying for these luxuries in life until they have a wage to fund their luxury pusuits.

pax
15-03-2005, 02:11 PM
In some ways unemployed and students are very well treated in Australia in comparison to overseas. Unemployed, and over 18 Student discount is rarley encounted outside of Australia, for example movie tickets, or theme park entrance. The reasoning I always got was that the unemployed and students should not be paying for these luxuries in life until they have a wage to fund their luxury pusuits.

On the other hand, a recurring issue in Australian chess is "Why do so many junior players drop out after school?" Student discounts are one way of encouraging students to keep playing, if only a small one. And students these days are *really* poor.

arosar
15-03-2005, 02:59 PM
Hey, are we all going down or what?

Also, to the organisers, can I be exempt from the 'no flash rule' during the last 15 mins of play? It's usually during these period when there are really intense moments and I'd like to capture them.

Cheers,

AR

shaun
15-03-2005, 03:23 PM
Hey, are we all going down or what?

Also, to the organisers, can I be exempt from the 'no flash rule' during the last 15 mins of play? It's usually during these period when there are really intense moments and I'd like to capture them.

Cheers,

AR

And it is also during this period when you are likely to have your camera smashed by an irate player. So as much as we'd like to change the rule we can't. For your own good of course.

JGB
15-03-2005, 04:03 PM
Hey, are we all going down or what?

AR

Im heading up! This time we have to sort out some evening activities :cool: .

arosar
15-03-2005, 04:24 PM
Im heading up! This time we have to sort out some evening activities :cool: .

That's easy man. Manuka's like a hip and happening place. But I'm staying in Victor Lodge and I think that's in a place called Kingston or something rather. There's a coupla joints there too.

We'll round up everybody we know. Also, I reckon if you really prod them a little these Canberra BBers might just put together a welcome BBQ or something. ;)

AR

JGB
15-03-2005, 04:55 PM
That's easy man. Manuka's like a hip and happening place. But I'm staying in Victor Lodge and I think that's in a place called Kingston or something rather. There's a coupla joints there too.

We'll round up everybody we know. Also, I reckon if you really prod them a little these Canberra BBers might just put together a welcome BBQ or something. ;)

AR

Sounds nice. Im looking forward to my first trip out to Canberra and meeting a few more BB'ers. A BBQ would be the gear! ;)

antichrist
15-03-2005, 05:04 PM
AR,
In Ian Rogers latest column he includes a picture of Kaspa and Kazimdzanov analysing after their game. This seems the way to go.

As players are usually quite still during their move you should be able to get a good shot without the flash. With my steady hand I could come down to 1/30 of a sec. with no blur or take a tripod. All of this depends on you having a decent camera of course.

Mischa
15-03-2005, 08:27 PM
Fine...I'm not going and NOW you organise a social event...or was that planned?

Recherché
15-03-2005, 11:05 PM
I'm staying in Victor Lodge

AHA!

So you're one of the conspirators who managed to book out Victor Lodge within two days of the maximum advance booking time arriving! :P (or are you in a room of your own?)

When I called at my first opportunity there was no room at the inn. Fortunately I managed to get in at the Backpackers up in the city. :)

antichrist
15-03-2005, 11:28 PM
AHA!

So you're one of the conspirators who managed to book out Victor Lodge within two days of the maximum advance booking time arriving! :P (or are you in a room of your own?)

When I called at my first opportunity there was no room at the inn. Fortunately I managed to get in at the Backpackers up in the city. :)

I also stayed at Civic House or something like that in the city. The rooms were larger, virtually new as had just been done out, much better facilities and much cheaper. A bit of noise from street but - well then we made some ourselves didn't we!

Was $20 cheaper though had en suite which Victor did not have.

The_Wise_Man
18-03-2005, 08:28 AM
Is it possible to get a list of the advanced entries into the Doeberl Cup?

Wise

Libby
18-03-2005, 10:39 AM
Is it possible to get a list of the advanced entries into the Doeberl Cup?

Wise

Can someone please make sure any such advice incorporates their Junior or Senior status and also in which city they originated?

It may help people make informed entry decisions to avoid as many of our cheating :doh: Canberra juniors as possible :hand:

My daughter will be playing the Minor. I wonder if you have tarred her with that brush ...

jenni
18-03-2005, 12:31 PM
Can someone please make sure any such advice incorporates their Junior or Senior status and also in which city they originated?

It may help people make informed entry decisions to avoid as many of our cheating :doh: Canberra juniors as possible :hand:

My daughter will be playing the Minor. I wonder if you have tarred her with that brush ...

Now now Libby. DOn't you think poor Wiseman has copped enough from we vicious Canberra mothers?

Bill Gletsos
18-03-2005, 02:56 PM
Now now Libby. DOn't you think poor Wiseman has copped enough from we vicious Canberra mothers?I thought he may just be interested in seeing if there were any potential cheating adults in the major. :whistle:

Thunderspirit
18-03-2005, 07:32 PM
Can someone please make sure any such advice incorporates their Junior or Senior status and also in which city they originated?

It may help people make informed entry decisions to avoid as many of our cheating :doh: Canberra juniors as possible :hand:

My daughter will be playing the Minor. I wonder if you have tarred her with that brush ...

Libby... Now... Now... Why bait him... I agree with Jenni... he picked a fight with the wrong two women of Canberran chess... :owned:

(Not that there would two right women to pick a fight with....) ;)

Trent Parker
19-03-2005, 12:32 AM
Damnit. The Chiddy's have decided they don't want to go to canberra :( :( :(

Looks like we're going to cabramatta.... :( :(

Thunderspirit
19-03-2005, 02:31 AM
I must commend the Doeberl Cup Commitee for the supurb arbitering team this year. In my opinion the best in Australian chess.

IA Gary Bekker
IA Cathy Rogers
Shuan Press.

About time you got some decent DOP's....

Paul S
19-03-2005, 03:12 AM
Libby... Now... Now... Why bait him... I agree with Jenni... he picked a fight with the wrong two women of Canberran chess... :owned:

(Not that there would two right women to pick a fight with....) ;)

Yes, one thing for sure is to NEVER pick a fight with Jenni and Libby! One is asking for trouble if they choose to take on the "cyber sisters" of the BB!!! :P :lol: :eek:

Paul S
19-03-2005, 03:15 AM
I must commend the Doeberl Cup Commitee for the supurb arbitering team this year. In my opinion the best in Australian chess.

IA Gary Bekker
IA Cathy Rogers
Shuan Press.

About time you got some decent DOP's....

Yes, the team for this year's Doeberl is good! However, what about your former flatmate Charles Zworestine?! Isn't he one of the best in Aussie chess?!

antichrist
19-03-2005, 06:17 AM
Damnit. The Chiddy's have decided they don't want to go to canberra :( :( :(

Looks like we're going to cabramatta.... :( :(

I'll tell them to throw a few more shrimps on the barbie. Everyone is always welcome. It is 9am register this time.

antichrist
19-03-2005, 06:22 AM
Yes, the team for this year's Doeberl is good! However, what about your former flatmate Charles Zworestine?! Isn't he one of the best in Aussie chess?!

Paul, we had that high-powered for the SEC at Canterbury, and if you followed the posts they may have made a terrible mistake against Agulto which I was very unhappy with at the time. So don't assume prestiage means a guarantee.

BG seems to be the person most up to date.

Thunderspirit
19-03-2005, 10:05 AM
There seems to be some concern over my last post, which was mainly an oppurunity to 'take the p**s' out of Charles and I.

Yes Charles is a good DOP (and far better than me...)

I still believe this year's team is a little better though: Charles is better in junior events...

Kerry Stead
19-03-2005, 11:54 AM
There seems to be some concern over my last post, which was mainly an oppurunity to 'take the p**s' out of Charles and I.

Yes Charles is a good DOP (and far better than me...)

I still believe this year's team is a little better though: Charles is better in junior events...
I was going to say ... with you out of the country, then SURELY the standard of arbiting will be much better! :P :whistle: :owned:

Davidflude
19-03-2005, 12:57 PM
I have played this tournament a couple of times and think that it is great. Alas
this year it is too close to the Begonia tournament for me. Also I want to save my biccies. Yes I am thinking of skiing New Zealand mid winter and playing the Queenstown Chess Classic in January 2006.

One hint for Victorians is to travel on the XPT. It is a long easy day on the train
and bus but the train is very comfortable. Compare the cost with how much you would pay for petrol if driving.

A word of warning to all seniors. Some underrated Box Hill juniors will be playing.

Best of luck to all participants

Fludy

jenni
19-03-2005, 01:09 PM
playing the Queenstown Chess Classic in January 2006.



I think this is going to be huge - we've already booked flights (using lots of FF points :) ) and accommodation. There are lots of apartments and houses for rent within walking distance of the playing venue and they work out quite cost effective vs the hotel, if you are going in a group.

Denis_Jessop
19-03-2005, 03:23 PM
Yes, the team for this year's Doeberl is good! However, what about your former flatmate Charles Zworestine?! Isn't he one of the best in Aussie chess?!

Isn't Lee's comment a reference to the team and not to any individual? As it happens, Charles, who has recently usually been a member of the team, is not available this year.

DJ

Thunderspirit
19-03-2005, 06:06 PM
I was going to say ... with you out of the country, then SURELY the standard of arbiting will be much better! :P :whistle: :owned:

It's good to see someone agrees with me....

jenni
19-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Is it possible to get a list of the advanced entries into the Doeberl Cup?

Wise

below is the current list of entrants to the Doeberl Cup, Major and Minor events:

E Schon
T Clark
C Nater
M van Dijk
R Brockman
A Tsagarakis
G Lane
L S Fell
F Van der Wal
J Chan
Z W Lin
M G Dunn
C Flood
S Solomon
E Wu
J Ikeda
M Ikeda
A Hoffmann
E Katnic
B Jones
T Reilly
G Xie
T Ung
B Mengelkamp
E Jochimsen
V Suttor
A de Noskowski
Rukman Vijayakumar
Rengan Vijayakumar
E Xing
B Xing
M Steadman
D Bisson
V Tulevski
J Huang
J Boyce
Y Yuan
B Lazarus
T Lewski
J Morris
N Szuveges
C Wallis
G Ramakrishna
A Lloyd
J Curtis
A Jule
J Marks
M Roche
J Cronan
H Muljadi
C Nikolau
T Kalisch
I Dickson
J Chow
R Yu
L Arocha
D Messina
M Wilkie
D Jaksic
I Rout
M Ninchich
K Hoang
G West
J Watson
Butseggsegg
Ngan Koshnitsky
M Illingworth
A Chibnall
G Winter
M Morris
M Rujevic
J Bonning
M Tracey
T Rej
L Went
A Smith
A McGregor
M Dizdarevich
K Hursky
J Ren
E Storey
T Truscott
T Kimura
J Roberts
P Frost
C Skulte
E Tsui
R McCulloch
M Baterowicz
A Flitney
I Walshe
C Curtin
N Redpath
M Redpath
L Russell
A-J Buciu
J Tse
A Keuning
G Canfell
J Maguire
N Chernih
M Ali
S Mugford
Matthew Beltrami
Michael Beltrami
B Fitzpatrick
M Grcic
Richard McCart
T McCart
L Ong
M Peterson
L Bowen
D Sampson
J Escribano
P Kirchnei
Q Nguyen
V Nguyen
H Kolotas
J Griffith
M MacMillan
P Sike
R Harris
B Harris
K Smith
T Lewis
D Stojic
S Stojic
C Lane
G Charles
D Castor
S Oliver
G Oliver
T Oliver
T Zhang
S Bartlett
J McCook
S Guo Yuthok
E Guo
J Hoole
I Rogers

Davidflude
19-03-2005, 11:19 PM
Warning Box Hill players who have entered so far. I bet that I have missed some.


E Schon - improving junior
T Clark
C Nater
M van Dijk - her schoolteacher was Dr Euwe
R Brockman
A Tsagarakis - dangerous
G Lane
L S Fell
F Van der Wal
J Chan
Z W Lin - improving junior
M G Dunn
C Flood
S Solomon
E Wu
J Ikeda
M Ikeda
A Hoffmann
E Katnic
B Jones
T Reilly
G Xie
T Ung
B Mengelkamp
E Jochimsen
V Suttor
A de Noskowski
Rukman Vijayakumar improving junior
Rengan Vijayakumar improving junior
E Xing
B Xing
M Steadman
D Bisson
V Tulevski
J Huang
J Boyce
Y Yuan
B Lazarus
T Lewski
J Morris - Herr Von Schwindler - another improving junior
N Szuveges - dont lose to a sheila guys
C Wallis - very much improved junior
G Ramakrishna
A Lloyd
J Curtis
A Jule
J Marks
M Roche
J Cronan
H Muljadi
C Nikolau
T Kalisch not Box Hill but discovered J. Morris's swindling ability at the Begonia
I Dickson
J Chow
R Yu
L Arocha
D Messina
M Wilkie
D Jaksic
I Rout
M Ninchich
K Hoang
G West
J Watson
Butseggsegg
Ngan Koshnitsky
M Illingworth
A Chibnall
G Winter
M Morris
M Rujevic has played at Box Hill
J Bonning
M Tracey
T Rej
L Went
A Smith
A McGregor
M Dizdarevich plays at Box Hill a lot
K Hursky
J Ren
E Storey
T Truscott
T Kimura
J Roberts
P Frost
C Skulte
E Tsui
R McCulloch
M Baterowicz
A Flitney
I Walshe
C Curtin
N Redpath
M Redpath
L Russell
A-J Buciu
J Tse
A Keuning
G Canfell
J Maguire
N Chernih
M Ali
S Mugford
Matthew Beltrami
Michael Beltrami
B Fitzpatrick
M Grcic
Richard McCart
T McCart
L Ong
M Peterson
L Bowen
D Sampson
J Escribano
P Kirchnei
Q Nguyen
V Nguyen
H Kolotas
J Griffith
M MacMillan
P Sike
R Harris
B Harris
K Smith
T Lewis
D Stojic both Stojic brothers are great at middle games and endings. Try and
S Stojic rob them blind in the openings.
C Lane
G Charles
D Castor
S Oliver
G Oliver
T Oliver
T Zhang
S Bartlett
J McCook
S Guo Yuthok
E Guo
J Hoole
I Rogers

Paul S
19-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Thanks Lee and Denis for your explanations/clarifications.

Silly me regarding post #146! :doh: At the time I made it, I had forgotten that CZ would not be arbitering Doeberl this year (Charles had told me a few weeks ago that he would not be there due to having to attend a friend's wedding over Easter). I blame my a temporary memory lapse (ie assuming that CZ was be the 2005 Doeberl arbiter in post #146) on my having made that post at a ridiculous hour (4.15am)!

Garvinator
20-03-2005, 02:22 AM
Hello everyone,

I was trying to add all the names into swiss perfect and then paste it here so everyone can get a more accurate picture of who is going to be in what division and all that stuff, but there are too many similiar names to do it accurately.

Also I would be importing using december ratings and dont like the idea of going through the master list for each and every player mentioned :eek:

Sorry everyone.

Ian Rout
20-03-2005, 10:08 AM
If it's of any use these are the ACT juniors I recognise (I may have missed a couple)

(delete)

and these are the non-juniors - probably not very interesting but included for completeness as some people are around the borderline and I'm not sure exactly how old some people are.

(delete)

Perhaps if other states do a similar extraction we can at least get it down that far.

[Lists deleted to save space as they are repeated a couple of posts below]

Alan Shore
20-03-2005, 10:39 AM
Perhaps if other states do a similar extraction we can at least get it down that far.

There may be a couple I've missed but those I can spot from QLD:

Seniors
L Bowen
A-J Buciu
B Harris
D Sampson
A Smith
S Solomon
T Truscott

Juniors
A Jule
T Kimura
B Lazarus
L Russell

I've been told we're expecting a few more entries too.

jenni
20-03-2005, 12:20 PM
Another ACT Junior

Tim Clark

Ian Rout
20-03-2005, 01:52 PM
The ACT lists again with ratings:

Juniors:

811 - C Flood
1970 - J Ikeda
1353 - M Ikeda
1400 - T Ung
992 - E Xing
336 - B Xing
1253 - Y Yuan
1115 - A Lloyd
1246 - J Chow
1621 - K Hoang
805 - N Redpath
897 - M Redpath
1397 - Matthew Beltrami
923 - L Ong
1005 - V Nguyen
1139 - K Smith
1950 - G Oliver
1230 - T Oliver
760 - T Zhang
927 - J McCook
1694 - S Guo-Yuthok
1116 - E Guo
1542 - J Maguire
841 - A Chibnall
296 - T Clark

Others:

1259 - B Mengelkamp
1393 - E Jochimsen
1799 - A de Noskowski
1662 - G Ramakrishna
1518 - J Marks
1462 - D Messina
1913 - I Rout
1592 - M Ninchich
1781 - M Ali
1370 - S Mugford
1045 - Michael Beltrami
1977 - B Fitzpatrick
1849 - M Grcic
1472 - Q Nguyen
1650 - S Oliver
1771 - S Bartlett
1582 - J Hoole

George Xie
20-03-2005, 03:01 PM
Can someone tell me whos on the list of Deoberl cup permier?



Many thanks

Denis_Jessop
20-03-2005, 04:59 PM
Jenni's list includes the following player "Butseggsegg".

This player is the ACT's secret weapon for 2005. She is in fact Tuvshintogs Battsetseg (or Batceceg) and is a student at the ANU. More significantly she is a Mongolian WIM FIDE rated 2240 so it will be interesting to see how she goes. Pressure of studies has precluded her playing in any local club tournaments of note.

DJ

jenni
20-03-2005, 05:03 PM
Jenni's list includes the following player "Butseggsegg".

This player is the ACT's secret weapon for 2005. She is in fact Tuvshintogs Battsetseg (or Batceceg) and is a student at the ANU. More significantly she is a Mongolian WIM FIDE rated 2240 so it will be interesting to see how she goes. Pressure of studies has precluded her playing in any local club tournaments of note.

DJ

I wondered who that was! (Incidentally the list is from Paul Dunn, who kindly e-mailed it to me after I told him of the request on the BB).

Bill Gletsos
20-03-2005, 05:37 PM
Jenni's list includes the following player "Butseggsegg".

This player is the ACT's secret weapon for 2005. She is in fact Tuvshintogs Battsetseg (or Batceceg) and is a student at the ANU. More significantly she is a Mongolian WIM FIDE rated 2240 so it will be interesting to see how she goes. Pressure of studies has precluded her playing in any local club tournaments of note.

DJAccording to the ratings info on the FIDE website it looks like its spelt Batceceg.

Denis_Jessop
20-03-2005, 07:48 PM
According to the ratings info on the FIDE website it looks like its spelt Batceceg.

Yes, Bill, that is right though you will note that there is a US-registered player with the other spelling. I am told that the FIDE spelling for "our" player is a French transliteration of the Mongolian :rolleyes:

DJ

shaun
20-03-2005, 07:50 PM
If anyone is looking for accommodation at the Forrest Motor Lodge (next door to the venue), Ralph Jackson has a second room (twin share) for $110 a night (breakfast included). He can be contacted at ralph@waywardbus.com.au if you are interested.

Candy-Cane
21-03-2005, 06:11 AM
who has entered in which division?


below is the current list of entrants to the Doeberl Cup, Major and Minor events:

E Schon
T Clark
C Nater
M van Dijk
R Brockman
A Tsagarakis
G Lane
L S Fell
F Van der Wal
J Chan
Z W Lin
M G Dunn
C Flood
S Solomon
E Wu
J Ikeda
M Ikeda
A Hoffmann
E Katnic
B Jones
T Reilly
G Xie
T Ung
B Mengelkamp
E Jochimsen
V Suttor
A de Noskowski
Rukman Vijayakumar
Rengan Vijayakumar
E Xing
B Xing
M Steadman
D Bisson
V Tulevski
J Huang
J Boyce
Y Yuan
B Lazarus
T Lewski
J Morris
N Szuveges
C Wallis
G Ramakrishna
A Lloyd
J Curtis
A Jule
J Marks
M Roche
J Cronan
H Muljadi
C Nikolau
T Kalisch
I Dickson
J Chow
R Yu
L Arocha
D Messina
M Wilkie
D Jaksic
I Rout
M Ninchich
K Hoang
G West
J Watson
Butseggsegg
Ngan Koshnitsky
M Illingworth
A Chibnall
G Winter
M Morris
M Rujevic
J Bonning
M Tracey
T Rej
L Went
A Smith
A McGregor
M Dizdarevich
K Hursky
J Ren
E Storey
T Truscott
T Kimura
J Roberts
P Frost
C Skulte
E Tsui
R McCulloch
M Baterowicz
A Flitney
I Walshe
C Curtin
N Redpath
M Redpath
L Russell
A-J Buciu
J Tse
A Keuning
G Canfell
J Maguire
N Chernih
M Ali
S Mugford
Matthew Beltrami
Michael Beltrami
B Fitzpatrick
M Grcic
Richard McCart
T McCart
L Ong
M Peterson
L Bowen
D Sampson
J Escribano
P Kirchnei
Q Nguyen
V Nguyen
H Kolotas
J Griffith
M MacMillan
P Sike
R Harris
B Harris
K Smith
T Lewis
D Stojic
S Stojic
C Lane
G Charles
D Castor
S Oliver
G Oliver
T Oliver
T Zhang
S Bartlett
J McCook
S Guo Yuthok
E Guo
J Hoole
I Rogers

jenni
21-03-2005, 10:17 AM
Your guess is as good as mine - the list is exactly as Paul sent it to me.

I think you can look at the ratings and make some reasonable assumptions, although I would put ambitious juniors in the Open, even if they are eligble to play the major. Gareth and Shannon are both playing the Open, Tamzin the Minor.

Angela Song is not coming to Doeberl :( - too much school work and an exam next week. Problem about having Easter in the middle of term and not holidays.

Garvinator
21-03-2005, 04:14 PM
now that i have the current sp files for the march list, i will post a copy of the rating list for doeberl in rating order later tonight ie about 10pm. Dont hang around at 10pm waiting for it though ;)

JGB
21-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Boy am I mixed up now.
Some people are speaking of two divisions ;entrance for major and minor ... ?

Now i've heard
minor, major, open, and premier?

I thought there were just three divisions?

and to think I believed English was my native language? :uhoh:

Where can I find a published list at least of those confirmed for each group, if only to confirm payment for the correct divison, which I would find useful before driving to Canberra.

Bill Gletsos
21-03-2005, 04:55 PM
Boy am I mixed up now.
Some people are speaking of two divisions ;entrance for major and minor ... ?

Now i've heard
minor, major, open, and premier?

I thought there were just three divisions?
There are.
Premier - restricted to those above 1600.
Major - Under 2000
Minor - Under 1600.

jenni
21-03-2005, 05:08 PM
Boy am I mixed up now.
Some people are speaking of two divisions ;entrance for major and minor ... ?

Now i've heard
minor, major, open, and premier?

I thought there were just three divisions?

and to think I believed English was my native language? :uhoh:

Where can I find a published list at least of those confirmed for each group, if only to confirm payment for the correct divison, which I would find useful before driving to Canberra.

Sorry that is my fault - using loose terminology (or maybe showing my age). The Premier used to be called the Open - I think it changed about 2003.

There is no Open , just Premier. :wall:

JGB
21-03-2005, 05:10 PM
There are.
Premier - restricted to those above 1600.
Major - Under 2000
Minor - Under 1600.

Thanks Bill. :) . I was aware of this after paying my fees. Can you explain where the Open group fits into this. Why do people refer to Lists of the Major and Minor divisions and not the Premier also?

EDIT: Posted too late. Thanks Jenni! :)

jenni
22-03-2005, 08:51 AM
Anyone coming to Canberra from interstate should remember to bring warm clothes. A few days ago we had day after day after 32 type temperatures, but it is now raining and cold. If the rain lets up for Easter, then expect mild days and cold nights, but if it continues raining, it will definitely be cold.

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 09:01 AM
Anyone coming to Canberra from interstate should remember to bring warm clothes. A few days ago we had day after day after 32 type temperatures, but it is now raining and cold. If the rain lets up for Easter, then expect mild days and cold nights, but if it continues raining, it will definitely be cold.

Thanks Jenni, was just about to ask for a forecast.. will be sure to rug up for the trip! :ninja:

Libby
22-03-2005, 09:54 AM
Thanks Jenni, was just about to ask for a forecast.. will be sure to rug up for the trip! :ninja:

Right now - absolutely freezing and I believe we have some kind of severe weather warning for this evening :eek:

Haven't checked what we are expecting later in the week. Canberra at this time of year can have stunning Autumn weather (crisp, but sunny). But when we are cold, we are very, very cold!

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 11:58 AM
Right now - absolutely freezing and I believe we have some kind of severe weather warning for this evening :eek:

Haven't checked what we are expecting later in the week. Canberra at this time of year can have stunning Autumn weather (crisp, but sunny). But when we are cold, we are very, very cold!
it will be like being back at mt buller ;) weather wise that is :uhoh:

jenni
22-03-2005, 12:16 PM
it will be like being back at mt buller ;) weather wise that is :uhoh:

Which is why I was very unimpressed with Mt Buller!! We only get about 8 weeks of nice weather in a year, so to squander some it in a cold place was not amusing. Libby of course is Canberra bred, so finds Autumn and Spring pleasant - I was brought up in a warmer climate and don't really thaw out under about 28 degrees. :)

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 12:23 PM
Which is why I was very unimpressed with Mt Buller!! We only get about 8 weeks of nice weather in a year, so to squander some it in a cold place was not amusing. Libby of course is Canberra bred, so finds Autumn and Spring pleasant - I was brought up in a warmer climate and don't really thaw out under about 28 degrees. :)
well i liked the mt buller weather, after getting used to the cooler weather than the brisbane heat and humidity. By the end of the month i was there, i didnt have a problem with 10 degrees and cloudy during the day ;)

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 01:52 PM
Jenni and Libby: Is it going to be this cold?

http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/graphics/icestorm3_small.jpg

Rincewind
22-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Jenni and Libby: Is it going to be this cold?

http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/graphics/icestorm3_small.jpg

Those photos are scary. From memory that's Lake Geneva, isn't it?

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 02:01 PM
Those photos are scary. From memory that's Lake Geneva, isn't it?

Right you are, Lake Geneva. Here you can find some more photos that can be enlarged too: http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/icestorm.asp

jenni
22-03-2005, 02:13 PM
Jenni and Libby: Is it going to be this cold?



Ok - so maybe I have been exaggerating a bit how cold it is in Canberra. T-shirt and jumper is probably enough :) You normally don't need a coat in Canberra until June, although I noticed Shannon clutching hers when she went off to Uni today. (Think she might have been a bit scarred by her Mt buller experience).

rob
22-03-2005, 02:38 PM
What cold weather it is 37 degrees in Perth today :)

shaun
22-03-2005, 02:46 PM
What cold weather it is 37 degrees in Perth today :)

Excellent. The warm weather should reach us by Friday then :)

Ian Rout
22-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it (that I can see):

Thurs 21 fine
Fri 21 fine
Sat 22 fine
Sun 24 cloudy
Mon 24 cloudy
Tues 25 showers

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 03:00 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it (that I can see):

Thurs 21 fine
Fri 21 fine
Sat 22 fine
Sun 24 cloudy
Mon 24 cloudy
Tues 25 showers
and the weather forecast in canberra is always reliable right ;)

Ian Rout
22-03-2005, 03:12 PM
and the weather forecast in canberra is always reliable right ;)
About as much as other places.

jenni
22-03-2005, 03:17 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it (that I can see):

Thurs 21 fine
Fri 21 fine
Sat 22 fine
Sun 24 cloudy
Mon 24 cloudy
Tues 25 showers

To put this into context - in other cities this means you get 21 from about 10 am to 4 pm. In Canberra the mercury struggles up to 21 for a brief instance at 1pm and it will probably be around 8 overnight.

JGB
22-03-2005, 03:20 PM
To put this into context - in other cities this means you get 21 from about 10 am to 4 pm. In Canberra the mercury struggles up to 21 for a brief instance at 1pm and it will probably be around 8 overnight.
Sounds like central Europe. To think I came back for the weather. :doh:

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 03:21 PM
Sounds like central Europe. To think I came back for the weather. :doh:
if you came back for the weather, melbourne probably wasnt a good choice anyways ;)

Ian Rout
22-03-2005, 03:35 PM
Overall I think the forecast sounds plausible for the time of year, but be aware of the possibility of the Tuesday rain being early if driving back.

JGB
22-03-2005, 03:43 PM
if you came back for the weather, melbourne probably wasnt a good choice anyways ;)

Just trying to break into it slowly...
Anyway, I dont much fancy cyclones mate. ;)

Recherché
22-03-2005, 06:51 PM
Where can I find a published list at least of those confirmed for each group, if only to confirm payment for the correct divison, which I would find useful before driving to Canberra.

Is this you trying to find out which division you should be playing in? Based on what you've said about your results in Germany (and also based on your results in Ballarat earlier this month), I'd recommend the Major. The Minor is clearly below your standard, despite your exhumed and reheated ACF rating of 1464.

If you're feeling ambitious you could try the Premier, though they may not want to let you enter because of your rating. If you had your heart set on it, you could probably convince them with your fide rating (http://fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=3205002) and an explanation of why your ACF rating is not, for the moment, reliable.

Recherché
22-03-2005, 06:58 PM
I was brought up in a warmer climate and don't really thaw out under about 28 degrees. :)

I'm with you on that one, despite having lived in Melbourne all my life.


To put this into context - in other cities this means you get 21 from about 10 am to 4 pm. In Canberra the mercury struggles up to 21 for a brief instance at 1pm and it will probably be around 8 overnight.

Yes, indeed. Unlike the coastal cities, Canberra doesn't have the sea to keep it warm overnight. The forecast (http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDN10049.txt) seems to imply that night temperatures will be lucky to make it as high as 8°.

So much for Canberra making its own hot air, eh? :D

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 06:59 PM
Is this you trying to find out which division you should be playing in? Based on what you've said about your results in Germany (and also based on your results in Ballarat earlier this month), I'd recommend the Major. The Minor is clearly below your standard, despite your exhumed and reheated ACF rating of 1464.

If you're feeling ambitious you could try the Premier, though they may not want to let you enter because of your rating. If you had your heart set on it, you could probably convince them with your fide rating (http://fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=3205002) and an explanation of why your ACF rating is not, for the moment, reliable.
this would also be a time when being on here is helpful as your case James would be known to arbiter Shaun Press and so makes your case easier to make, if you wanted to play in the premier.

Recherché
22-03-2005, 07:06 PM
the Shaun Press

That's an impressive sounding title. Certainly more original than "director of play". ;)

JGB
22-03-2005, 07:06 PM
Is this you trying to find out which division you should be playing in? Based on what you've said about your results in Germany (and also based on your results in Ballarat earlier this month), I'd recommend the Major. The Minor is clearly below your standard, despite your exhumed and reheated ACF rating of 1464.

If you're feeling ambitious you could try the Premier, though they may not want to let you enter because of your rating. If you had your heart set on it, you could probably convince them with your fide rating (http://fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=3205002) and an explanation of why your ACF rating is not, for the moment, reliable.

Thanks Recherché. :)
I have sent Paul Dunn an email about an hour ago and hope to be allowed to play in the Premier. I based all my facts on reading that the FIDE rating would be used for this tournament. If this is not the case Ill have to reconsider my entry. I recieved enough hassles from opponents in Ballarat questioning the ratings differences.

I really have my heart set on playing the Premier. It would be nice to know before I make the jouney to Canberra.

If Shaun is here and can communicate my thoughts that would be great. :)

Recherché
22-03-2005, 07:17 PM
I based all my facts on reading that the FIDE rating would be used for this tournament. If this is not the case Ill have to reconsider my entry.

The Premier is FIDE rated (and, I would assume, paired based on FIDE ratings), but the entry criteria has an ACF rating over 1600 listed as a prerequisite. As I said though, it seems likely you'd be exempted from that particular criterion.

JGB
22-03-2005, 07:23 PM
The Premier is FIDE rated (and, I would assume, paired based on FIDE ratings), but the entry criteria has an ACF rating over 1600 listed as a prerequisite. As I said though, it seems likely you'd be exempted from that particular criterion.
I wish I had that information

On all of the entries I have it states only :
Premier Division (FIDE-rated :Rated over 1600 only)

eclectic
22-03-2005, 07:36 PM
I wish I had that information

On all of the entries I have it states only :
Premier Division (FIDE-rated :Rated over 1600 only)

you'd think an 1800 floor would make more sense

eclectic

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 07:39 PM
I wish I had that information

On all of the entries I have it states only :
Premier Division (FIDE-rated :Rated over 1600 only)
i think this is the address for the main website:

http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.htm

as you can see the premier division is:
The Premier is FIDE-rated and is open to players rated over ACF1600.

jenni
22-03-2005, 07:42 PM
I wish I had that information

On all of the entries I have it states only :
Premier Division (FIDE-rated :Rated over 1600 only)

When the Premier was still called the Open, that's what it was - open i.e. anyone could play in it if they wanted to pay the entra money (commonly known in Canberra as the rabbit tax).

However the numbers grew bigger every year and in 2003 there were over 70 players in the Premier. it was all getting a bit out of hand and so they brought in the rule of only playing up one division, based on rating.

I feel sure that your case would get a sympathetic hearing, as your high FIDE is way out of kilter with your ACF and given you recent return from overseas, the FIDE would seem more accurate.

JGB
22-03-2005, 07:43 PM
i think this is the address for the main website:

http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.htm

as you can see the premier division is:
The Premier is FIDE-rated and is open to players rated over ACF1600.

I clicked the Adobe Printable Version and its a little different:
http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.pdf

Guess Ill just have to wait and see what HQ has to say. :)

antichrist
22-03-2005, 08:08 PM
Just trying to break into it slowly...
Anyway, I dont much fancy cyclones mate. ;)

When they pass exactly overhead it goes completely quiet and still, an errie feeling, but I can't remember if the birds came out during this "break".

Garvinator
22-03-2005, 08:16 PM
I clicked the Adobe Printable Version and its a little different:
http://www.netspeed.com.au/ianandjan/IansPage/miscellaneous/2005DoeberlCupInfo.pdf

Guess Ill just have to wait and see what HQ has to say. :)
i had seen that part as well. it isnt clear from your link if its 1600 fide or acf. Fide rated to me means that the tournament will be submitted for fide rating, nothing more.

Alan Shore
22-03-2005, 08:23 PM
I wish I had that information

On all of the entries I have it states only :
Premier Division (FIDE-rated :Rated over 1600 only)

Well then, it's a good thing we have humans that can make rational decisions based upon the facts rather than a computer-like interpretation that would probably have you up the creek.

Imagine if someone like Kramnik was born here, played chess and got an ACF rating of 500, went to Russia, came back to play Doeberl and the organisers said 'Sorry Vlad, no Premier division for you!' :rolleyes:

shaun
22-03-2005, 08:40 PM
If Shaun is here and can communicate my thoughts that would be great. :)

If you have a FIDE rating you can play in the Premier. Shannon Oliver was allowed to play the Premier a few years back under this criteria and it is still in effect. For how much longer I am not sure as the FIDE rating floor will eventually hit 1000, but if that is the case the rule will most likely be "above 1600 (either ACF or FIDE)"

shaun
22-03-2005, 09:49 PM
List of entries for the Premier
(Feel free to correct any mistakes I have made)



1. |Rogers, Ian |NSW |2641|gm
2. |Lane, Gary W |NSW |2489|im
3. |Solomon, Stephen J |QLD |2399|im
4. |West, Guy |VIC |2364|im
5. |Xie, George |NSW |2353|
6. |Curtis, John |NSW |2328|fm
7. |Canfell, Gregory J |NSW |2327|fm
8. |Reilly, Tim |NSW |2303|fm
9. |Rujevic, Mirko |VIC |2295|im
10.|Steadman, Michael |OS |2226|
11.|Koshnitsky, Ngan |NSW |2216|wim
12.|Rej, Tomek |NSW |2174|
13.|Charles, Gareth |NSW |2136|
14.|Jones, Brian A |NSW |2119|fm
15.|Yu, Ronald |NSW |2088|
16.|Hoffmann, Achim Gunter|NSW |2066|
17.|Castor, David |NSW |2017|
18.|Suttor, Vincent |NSW |1994|
19.|Wright, Ian D |VIC |1993|
20.|Jackson, Ralph E |SA |1986|
21.|Flitney, Adrian |SA |1982|
22.|Fitzpatrick, Brian |ACT |1977|
23.|Zvedeniouk, Ilia |NSW |1973|
24.|Ikeda, Junta |ACT |1971|
25.|Stojic, Dusan |VIC |1970|
26.|Stead, Kerry |NSW |1961|
27.|Chan, Jason |NSW |1957|
28.|Lewski, Toby |NSW |1951|
29.|Wallis, Christopher |VIC |1951|
30.|Oliver, Gareth |ACT |1950|
31.|Rout, Ian C |ACT |1913|
32.|Cronan, James |NSW |1890|
33.|Kalisch, Thomas |VIC |1888|
34.|Davis, Tony J |VIC |1878|
35.|Truscott, Tony J |QLD |1866|
36.|Lin, Zhigen Wilson |VIC |1852|
37.|Tsagarakis, Angelo |VIC |1839|
38.|Lazarus, Benjamin |QLD |1815|
39.|Van Der Wal, Fritz W |NSW |1813|
40.|Stojic, Svetozar |VIC |1807|
41.|Bartlett, Stephen C |ACT |1771|
42.|Szuveges, Narelle S |VIC |1765|wfm
43.|McCart, Richard |VIC |1732|
44.|Hoholis, Harry |VIC |1704|
45.|Tse, Jeffrey |NSW |1704|
46.|Escribano, Jose |NSW |1672|
47.|Brockman, Roland |VIC |1667|
48.|Kirchnei, Pedro |NSW |1662|
49.|Oliver, Shannon |ACT |1650|
50.|Bonning, James |VIC |1463|
51.|Batceceg, Tuvshintugs |ACT | |wim

shaun
22-03-2005, 09:50 PM
List of entries for the Major
(Feel free to correct any mistakes I have made)



1. |Muljadi, Haris |NSW | |1988
2. |Hursky, Karel P |NSW | |1987
3. |Wongwichit, Phachara |QLD | |1964
4. |Dizdarevic, Mehmedalija|VIC | |1942
5. |Morris, Michael |NSW | |1904
6. |Mendes da Costa, Alex |NSW | |1897
7. |Holt, Kenneth P |VIC | |1864
8. |Peterson, Macauley | | |1857
9. |Grcic, Milan |ACT | |1849
10.|Van Riel, Bas |VIC | |1847
11.|Fell, Lloyd S |NSW | |1830
12.|Illingworth, Max |NSW | |1826
13.|Frost, Peter |VIC | |1814
14.|De Noskowski, Adrian |ACT | |1799
15.|Dunn, Michael Gl |NSW | |1797
16.|Macmillan, Malcolm |NSW | |1794
17.|Huang, Justin |NSW | |1783
18.|Vijayakumar, Rukman |VIC | |1781
19.|Ali, Mosaddeque |ACT | |1780
20.|Bowen, Leon |QLD | |1761
21.|Lane, Clive D |NSW | |1757
22.|Tulevski, Vasil G |NSW | |1754
23.|Fitzpatrick, Andrew |ACT | |1732
24.|Guo-Yuthok, Sherab |ACT | |1693
25.|Jaksic, David |QLD | |1662
26.|Ramakrishna, Gogulapati|ACT | |1662
27.|Wu, Edwin |NSW | |1655
28.|Chernih, Nicholas |NSW | |1654
29.|McGregor, Allan |NSW | |1648
30.|Baterowicz, Mark |NSW | |1647
31.|Harris, Rebecca |NSW | |1631
32.|Hoang, Khoi |ACT | |1621
33.|Skulte, Christopher |NSW | |1621
34.|Roberts, Jamie |NSW | |1612
35.|Ninchich, Milan |ACT | |1592
36.|Buciu, Aurel-John |QLD | |1590
37.|Harris, Benjamin |NSW | |1565
38.|Jule, Alexandra |QLD | |1562
39.|Nikolaou, Chris |NSW | |1555
40.|Boyce, Jamie |NSW | |1543
41.|Morris, James |VIC | |1505
42.|Messina, David |ACT | |1462
43.|Kaspar, Ric |QLD | |1458
44.|Mugford, Stephen |ACT | |1369
45.|Schon, Eugene |VIC | |1343
46.|Sweeney, Matthew |NSW | |1293
47.|Curtin, Craig |NSW | |

shaun
22-03-2005, 09:52 PM
List of entries for the Minor
(feel free to correct any mistakes I have made)


1. |Sampson, Dion |QLD |1591
2. |Keuning, Anthony V |NSW |1587
3. |Hoole, Jeyaranjan |ACT |1582
4. |Bisson, Danny Wayne|NSW |1570
5. |Katnic, Eddy |NSW |1563
6. |Arocha, Leandro |NSW |1557
7. |Maguire, Jesse |ACT |1540
8. |Marks, Joe |ACT |1518
9. |Dickson, Ian C |NSW |1511
10.|Greenwood, Norman |NSW |1482
11.|Smith, Adrian |QLD |1479
12.|Nguyen, Quan |ACT |1472
13.|Went, Lindsay |NSW |1469
14.|Sike, Paul |NSW |1457
15.|Buciu, Avram |QLD |1444
16.|McCulloch, Rob |VIC |1440
17.|Tracey, Michael J |NSW |1437
18.|Kolotas, Harry |NSW |1432
19.|Ung, Thomas |ACT |1400
20.|Beltrami, Matthew |ACT |1397
21.|Jochimsen, Erik |ACT |1393
22.|Vijayakumar, Rengan|VIC |1373
23.|Walshe, Ian M |NSW |1363
24.|Ikeda, Miona |ACT |1353
25.|Roche, Michael |NSW |1317
26.|Russell, Luthien |QLD |1299
27.|Wilkie, Mary E |NSW |1290
28.|Mengelkamp, Brian |ACT |1259
29.|Yuan, Yi |ACT |1253
30.|Chow, Justin |ACT |1245
31.|Oliver, Tamzin L |ACT |1229
32.|Nater, Carl |VIC |1201
33.|Smith, Kayleigh |ACT |1138
34.|Guo, Emma |ACT |1115
35.|Lloyd, Aidan |ACT |1115
36.|Beltrami, Michael |ACT |1044
37.|Nguyen, Van |ACT |1004
38.|Xing, Edward |ACT |991
39.|Storey, Emma |NSW |986
40.|Ren, Jonathan |NSW |979
41.|McCook, Jake |ACT |926
42.|Ong, Lara |ACT |923
43.|Eustace, Sophie |SA |905
44.|Redpath, Michael |ACT |896
45.|Tsui, Edison |NSW |882
46.|Chibnall, Alana |ACT |841
47.|Flood, Christopher |ACT |811
48.|Redpath, Nicholas |ACT |805
49.|Henderson, Jake |ACT |801
50.|Zhang, Taiyang |ACT |760
51.|McCart, Tully |VIC |737
52.|Van Dijk, Marieke |VIC |667
53.|Xing, Benjamin |ACT |336
54.|Clark, Tim |ACT |301
55.|Griffith, Jemina |NSW |
56.|Kimura, Tomoki |ACT |
57.|Lewis, Thomas |ACT |
58.|Qin, Tomson |VIC |

firegoat7
22-03-2005, 10:13 PM
Hello,

Wheres Dazza?

Cheers Fg7

Bill Gletsos
22-03-2005, 10:29 PM
I feel sure that your case would get a sympathetic hearing, as your high FIDE is way out of kilter with your ACF and given you recent return from overseas, the FIDE would seem more accurate.Unfortunately for James his only rated results in Aus since his return are:


23/01/2005 MCC Australia Day Weekender

1 Henning Meldau 1550 0.0
2 Bill Jordan [FM] 2348 0.0
3 James Nour 1336 1.0
4 Jake Kostrzewa 1295 1.0
5 David Bell 991 1.0
Performance Rating = 1534

Trent Parker
22-03-2005, 10:52 PM
Just trying to break into it slowly...
Anyway, I dont much fancy cyclones mate. ;)

James, James, James!
Thats why Sydney is the place to be! :D

shaun
23-03-2005, 06:26 AM
List of entries for the Premier in FIDE rating order



No Name Feder Rtg Loc Title

1. Rogers, Ian NSW 2594 2641 gm
2. Lane, Gary W NSW 2439 2489 im
3. Solomon, Stephen J QLD 2426 2399 im
4. Canfell, Gregory J NSW 2361 2327 fm
5. Xie, George NSW 2359 2353 fm
6. West, Guy VIC 2350 2364 im
7. Curtis, John NSW 2305 2328 fm
8. Reilly, Tim NSW 2302 2303 fm
9. Rujevic, Mirko VIC 2260 2295 im
10. Rej, Tomek NSW 2248 2174
11. Batceceg, Tuvshintugs ACT 2230 2230 wim
12. Yu, Ronald NSW 2225 2088
13. Steadman, Michael OS 2222 2226
14. Hoffmann, Achim Gunter NSW 2190 2066
15. Koshnitsky, Ngan NSW 2183 2216 wim
16. Charles, Gareth NSW 2178 2136
17. Jones, Brian A NSW 2168 2119 fm
18. Zvedeniouk, Ilia NSW 2168 1973
19. Chan, Jason NSW 2140 1957
20. Rout, Ian C ACT 2124 1913
21. Wright, Ian D VIC 2106 1993
22. Stead, Kerry NSW 2099 1961
23. Bartlett, Stephen C ACT 2065 1771
24. Cronan, James NSW 2053 1890
25. Wallis, Christopher VIC 2051 1951
26. Truscott, Tony J QLD 2045 1866
27. Suttor, Vincent NSW 2044 1994
28. Stojic, Dusan VIC 2036 1970
29. Flitney, Adrian SA 2035 1982
30. Fitzpatrick, Brian ACT 2033 1977
31. Oliver, Gareth ACT 2000 1950
32. Stojic, Svetozar VIC 1992 1807
33. Ikeda, Junta ACT 1975 1971
34. Bonning, James VIC 1972 1463
35. McCart, Richard VIC 1969 1732
36. Oliver, Shannon ACT 1963 1650
37. Szuveges, Narelle S VIC 1901 1765 wfm
38. Brockman, Roland VIC 1842 1667
39. Castor, David NSW 2017
40. Jackson, Ralph E SA 1986
41. Lewski, Toby NSW 1951
42. Kalisch, Thomas VIC 1888
43. Davis, Tony J VIC 1878
44. Lin, Zhigen Wilson VIC 1852
45. Tsagarakis, Angelo VIC 1839
46. Lazarus, Benjamin QLD 1815
47. Van Der Wal, Fritz W NSW 1813
48. Hoholis, Harry VIC 1704
49. Tse, Jeffrey NSW 1704
50. Escribano, Jose NSW 1672
51. Kirchnei, Pedro NSW 1662

JGB
23-03-2005, 09:09 AM
Thanks for all your help, :) the responses were amazing. Its a also a credit to the effectivness of this BB. :clap:

Libby
23-03-2005, 09:17 AM
Which is why I was very unimpressed with Mt Buller!! We only get about 8 weeks of nice weather in a year, so to squander some it in a cold place was not amusing. Libby of course is Canberra bred, so finds Autumn and Spring pleasant - I was brought up in a warmer climate and don't really thaw out under about 28 degrees. :)

No, Victorian bred with one English parent. You must be able to tell by the footy passions I have expressed!

Anyway, update is we are having lovely big winds today and my dogs are happily chasing a towel which blew off the line whilst I contemplate the point of trying to rescue it in it's now very sorry state.

I'm afraid I like my weather in the 20-ish range with the sun out but not enough to induce a sweat.

Recherché
23-03-2005, 10:00 AM
List of entries for the Premier
<snip>

No Smurf! :eek:

Lets hope he's a late entrant. :)

Hmm, at second glance, we're a bit lean on the top Victorians. No Johansen and no Bjelobrk either.

Lucena
23-03-2005, 10:01 AM
Are the seedings given in post 217, in fide rating order, the ones used for pairings? I was under the impression ACF was the preferred rating used for pairings in the Doeberl. Can Shaun clear this up?

Recherché
23-03-2005, 10:10 AM
List of entries for the Major
(Feel free to correct any mistakes I have made)

Go Rukman! Go Sherab! Go Eugene!

Hmm, Matt Sweeney is feeling ambitious this year and playing up. He must be worried about a demolition at my hands in the Minor. :D

Shaun:

It's "Schön".

Rincewind
23-03-2005, 10:16 AM
Hmm, Matt Sweeney is feeling ambitious this year and playing up. He must be worried about a demolition at my hands in the Minor. :D

If memory serves that is the same division that Matt played in last year.

He can surprise the higer rated players sometime. He is able to generate nice attacks and gets into a lot more won positions than his rating would suggest. However, he is also likely to make some blunders and lose a number of games that he 'should' have won and hence his rating suffers accordingly. My advice is be prepared and never resign. ;)

Trent Parker
23-03-2005, 10:36 AM
Yeah i had an excellent game down MtB against sweeney. He was up a Bishop for a couple of pawns but he tried too hard to win... got my pawns rollin'.... I stuffed up but he missed the draw opportunity. Will dig up the game and post it sometime. (the pgn on the site doesn't give the whole game.... :(

Recherché
23-03-2005, 11:02 AM
List of entries for the Minor

...


1. Sampson, Dion QLD 1591

Doesn't this person post on the BB? I can't remember who it is, though...



5. Katnic, Eddy NSW 1563
8. Marks, Joe ACT 1518

From the Mt Buller Minor. They'll be out for revenge! :D


16. McCulloch, Rob VIC 1440

Yay, 16th seed! Though I suppose that'll be sub 20 by the time it's finalised. Looks like being a very enjoyable tournament, this one. Perhaps the best I've played in, in terms of competitiveness and size.


22. Vijayakumar, Rengan VIC 1373

An entrant to watch. I wouldn't be surprised at a top 10 finish. Or even top 5, really. Good luck Rengan! :)

Alan Shore
23-03-2005, 11:06 AM
1. Sampson, Dion QLD 1591Doesn't this person post on the BB? I can't remember who it is, though...

.............

Yeah, I think I've heard the name before too.. wonder who he is?

shaun
23-03-2005, 11:16 AM
Are the seedings given in post 217, in fide rating order, the ones used for pairings? I was under the impression ACF was the preferred rating used for pairings in the Doeberl. Can Shaun clear this up?

Last year we shifted to FIDE ratings for the Premier as the percentage of FIDE rated players in the field is now quite high. However we did not place FIDE unrateds at the bottom of the field but instead seeded them into the field using their ACF ratings (eg David Castor would be seeded between Brian Fitzpatrick and Gareth Oliver). While this is my preference for this year as well, what seeding method we use will be decided by the Arbiting team on Friday morning.

shaun
23-03-2005, 11:21 AM
No Smurf! :eek:

Lets hope he's a late entrant. :)

Hmm, at second glance, we're a bit lean on the top Victorians. No Johansen and no Bjelobrk either.

Don't Panic. Obviously there are going to be late entrants. Players with titles above FM get free entry and although we encourage them to tell us if they are entering, sometimes they just turn up on the day.
The rule of thumb we use to judge entries is about 66% pre-enter and based on that we expect 220+ players. Of course these things are only true until they become false but this has been a good predictor for the last couple of years.

arosar
23-03-2005, 12:00 PM
My name isn't on the list. But 3 of us are coming down.

AR

Garvinator
23-03-2005, 12:18 PM
.............

Yeah, I think I've heard the name before too.. wonder who he is?
some goose im sure :D

JGB
23-03-2005, 12:24 PM
.............

Yeah, I think I've heard the name before too.. wonder who he is?

Ive heard its some guy who's making his comback to take out the title! ;)

JGB
23-03-2005, 12:51 PM
Get your act together JGB, you're a disgrace! :P

You haven't got a clue how much of a disgrace I can be. Was thinking of playing in the minor just to stop Bell Boy from taking out the cash.

jenni
23-03-2005, 02:01 PM
You must be able to tell by the footy passions I have expressed!

.

Me? Footy?

jenni
23-03-2005, 02:04 PM
Go Rukman! Go Sherab! Go Eugene!

".
I understand Rukman and Eugene, given your Mexican locality, but why Sherab? know you shared a lodge with him in Mt B, but I would have thought that would have engendered more wringing of neck feelings than partisanship?

Mischa
23-03-2005, 03:41 PM
Am wondering if James should play in the major or minor...he is entered for the major, but the minor field looks better for him, given his rating. Any opinions?

Alan Shore
23-03-2005, 03:44 PM
Am wondering if James should play in the major or minor...he is entered for the major, but the minor field looks better for him, given his rating. Any opinions?

For an improving junior, I would encourage them to play as many games against stronger players as possible to learn as much as they can to improve. You don't learn much bashing newbies around.

Bill Gletsos
23-03-2005, 03:48 PM
For an improving junior, I would encourage them to play as many games against stronger players as possible to learn as much as they can to improve. You don't learn much bashing newbies around.I wouldnt exactly be referring to the 9 players who are rated above him in the Minor "newbies".
Of course as the top seed in the Minor you may well have a vested interest in keeping him in the Major. ;)

JGB
23-03-2005, 03:53 PM
James should play in the Major if he is there to develop his chess. The more chances he has to play against stronger opposition the better it is for his game.
If he wants a chance at prizes then the minor is naturally the better choice although who knows how well he might play in the Major? :)

Ian Rout
23-03-2005, 03:57 PM
It depends what his recent performance (as opposed to rating) is like. Scoring seven easy wins in the Minor is pretty pointless (apart from winning the prize) but a number of good games against tough opposition (1500s are not exactly beginners) may be more useful than seven floggings (or six floggings plus a consolation draw against another backmarker) - not to mention the effect on the confidence.

However if he's at a stage where 1500s aren't a real challenge, and especially if he doesn't get to play many 1800s at home, then foregoing the prizemoney and playing up is the better option.

Mischa
23-03-2005, 04:00 PM
It's tough...I think he plays higher than his rating suggests...who out there has played him and can give me a clue?

Mischa
23-03-2005, 04:03 PM
Why these three ...Rukman, Eugene and Sherab?

jenni
23-03-2005, 04:11 PM
It's tough...I think he plays higher than his rating suggests...who out there has played him and can give me a clue?

There are two schools of thought.

One

Juniors should play in tough competitions so that they get all hard games and can improve. It is also a good way to gain rating points.

Negatives here are they are going to lose a lot of games and if this is going to affect them psychologically then it is a bad idea.

Two

Juniors need to learn to cope with pressure and playing in a tournament where they are expected to win is a good experience and toughens them


I tend to go for the first, in adult tournaments, but feel they should play their age group in junior tournaments, unless they have already won the age title.

I think it is a terribly personal choice and no real wrong one. James is more than strong enough to play the major and will get some good results I would think. However if he would like to have a go at winning an adult tournament then go for the minor. But it will be more stressful, whereas in the major he can always console himself that the loss was to someone much higher. (probably).

Mischa
23-03-2005, 04:15 PM
thanks Jenni...James' first choice is the major.
We'll see what he decides when he gets there...I'm not going...sad. I didn't make it last year either

Rincewind
23-03-2005, 04:26 PM
Jenni,

You defined one school of thought (which you lean towards) as...


Juniors should play in tough competitions... It is also a good way to gain rating points.

I've heard this repeated a number of times but I'm not convinced of its veracity. Can you fill me in on the reasoning?

JGB
23-03-2005, 04:28 PM
I probably should ask this before I drive to Canberra.
Where is the playing venue in relation to Canberra's centre.
Is this published on the web with a cute little map reference or something?

Mischa
23-03-2005, 04:30 PM
Do you want to follow my crew? I think they even have room in the car.

JGB
23-03-2005, 04:37 PM
Do you want to follow my crew? I think they even have room in the car.

I meant In Canberra itself.
Naah, but thanks for the offer, I already have a few crew members of my own.

Mischa
23-03-2005, 04:45 PM
fair enough...have fun

DoroPhil
23-03-2005, 04:46 PM
Naah, but thanks for the offer, I already have a few crew members of my own.

Staying with Narelle again, mate? :)

JGB
23-03-2005, 04:48 PM
Staying with Narelle again, mate? :)

Who is this? I wondered who DoroPhil is, and now the clues are building. :hmm: