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Bill Gletsos
02-05-2013, 05:20 PM
The following FIDE Titles (excluding CM and WCM) have been awarded from Oceania Zonals since 1999.

1999 Gold Coast
IM
FELDMAN, Valdimir
BEREZINA-FELDMAN, Irina
SMERDON, David

FM
KULASHKO, Alexsei (NZL)
REILLY, Tim
SAW, Geoff
TINDALL, Brett
WEEKS, Manuel
REEVES, Tristan
DWYER, Daniel
STAWSKI, Nik
ZHAO, Zong Yuan
SZUVEGES, Grant

WIM
MOYLAN, Laura

WFM
JOHNS-PUTRA, Geraldine
SZUVEGES, Narelle

2000 Auckland
IM
ZHAO, Zong Yuan
KER, Anthony (NZL)

FM
WATSON, Bruce (NZL)
LUKEY, Stephen (NZL)

2001 Gold Coast
IM
CHAPMAN, Mark

FM
WASTNEY, Scott (NZL)
ALLEN, Andrew
JONES, Lee

WIM
KOSHNITSKY, Ngan

2002 Fiji
IM
RUJEVIC, Mirko

FM
JONES, Brian
GREEN, Peter (NZL)

WIM
LANE, Nancy

WFM
LIP, Catherine

2005 Auckland
IM
GARBETT, Paul (NZL)

FM
HUMPHREY, Jonathon
GUTHIE, Aaron

WIM
SZUVEGES, Narelle

WFM
SONG, Angela
OLIVER, Shannon

2007 Fiji
IM
WANG, Puchen (NZL)

FM
MORRIS, James
NAKAUCHI, Gene

WIM
JULE, Alexandra

WFM
MAROROA, Sue (NZL)
HARRIS, Rebecca

2009 Gold Coast
IM
MORRIS, James

FM
CHENG, Bobby
STEADMAN, Mike (NZL)

WIM
MAROROA, Sue (NZL)

WFM
REID, Vaness
GUO, Emma

2011 Rotorua
IM
BROWN, Andrew

FM
LY, Mouthun
OLIVER, Gareth

WIM
GUO, Emma

WFM
SETIABUDI, Megan
TSOI, Nicole (NZL)

2013 Fiji
IM
BJELOBRK, Igor
DALE, Ari

FM
SMIRNOV, Anton
TAN, Justin (Actually awarded the FM title based on rating in early June following the rating of the event)

WIM
JAREK, Katherine

WFM
NARENTHRAN, Savithri
VUKIKOMOALA, Hilda (FIJ)

2015 Sydney
IM
McCLYMONT, Brodie

FM
CHEN, Pengyu
LOH, Zachary
O'CHEE, Kevin

WIM
None

WFM
QUEK, Kristine

2017 auckland
IM
None

FM
CHAN, Luis
CHEW LEE, Max
CHOONG, Yita
GONG, Daniel Hanwen (NZL)
HU, Jason
KETHRO, Michael
LOUIE, Ryan
MALLARI, Donato
McLAREN, Leonard J (NZL)
SOO-BURROWES, Eliot W
TSAI, Charles

WIM
TIMERGAZI, Layla (NZL)

WFM
CHIBNALL, Alana
GUO, Zhi Lin
HARDEGEN, Kathryn
ZHANG, Jasmine Haomo

Kevin Bonham
02-05-2013, 10:03 PM
This post now out of date - updated in #12

A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

There are 54 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 44 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

Of the dual holders:

* Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
* Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
* I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Wang, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
FM (23 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson, Saw (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

Thus in total of 49 winners of 54 zonal titles, it seems around 13 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 15 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.

Oepty
02-05-2013, 10:10 PM
Aaron Guthrie gained the FM title from the 2005 Zonal Tournament

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3203158

I think it was going to go to Igor but he applied to get it the normal way, being over 2300, so it went to Aaron instead.

Oepty
02-05-2013, 10:17 PM
A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

There are 54 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 44 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

Of the dual holders:

* Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
* Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
* I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
FM (23 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Bjelobrk, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

Thus in total of 49 winners of 54 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.

I think Mark Chapman would have at least 2 norms, the zonal where he got the title and 2003 Australian Championship although I am not sure whether I have ever done the full calculations for both tournaments. However he finished half a point ahead of Trevor Tao in that Australian Championships and they would have played similar strength fields. He has played an Australian Open in Sydney since then where he performed just above 2400 from memory, but I am not sure whether it would have been a norm. Anything before 2000 I have no idea about.

Bill Gletsos
02-05-2013, 10:46 PM
Aaron Guthrie gained the FM title from the 2005 Zonal Tournament

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3203158

I think it was going to go to Igor but he applied to get it the normal way, being over 2300, so it went to Aaron instead.I have updated the original post.

Capablanca-Fan
03-05-2013, 03:24 AM
Thus in total of 50 winners of 55 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.
A useful analysis. With ZYZ and Smurf, there is an a fortiori argument that they later achieved a higher title by normal means than they won at the zonal by zonal rules. IIRC, as well, their performance ratings in the Zonals where they achieved their IM titles were higher than the rating requirement for the title. Quite a contrast with many Zonal FMs who have never achieved a 2300 rating.

braindied
03-05-2013, 08:04 AM
A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

There are 55 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 45 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

Of the dual holders:

* Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
* Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
* I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
FM (24 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Bjelobrk, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

Thus in total of 50 winners of 55 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.

In the IM list Puchen Wang NZL has certainly achieved the rating requirement, peak 2478. I would also suspect he would have the norms as well.

Kevin Bonham
03-05-2013, 10:15 AM
In the IM list Puchen Wang NZL has certainly achieved the rating requirement, peak 2478. I would also suspect he would have the norms as well.

Thanks; post edited.


With ZYZ and Smurf, there is an a fortiori argument that they later achieved a higher title by normal means than they won at the zonal by zonal rules.

Likewise for Ly and as soon as his title is cleared by FIDE Cheng.

Oepty
03-05-2013, 06:17 PM
Thanks; post edited.



Likewise for Ly and as soon as his title is cleared by FIDE Cheng.

You don't seem to have edited Bjelobrk out of your stats.

The interesting thing with Bjelobrk is he has to be one of the favourites to get the IM title this time. His peak published rating is 2399 as far as I can tell. I wonder whether he got over 2400 at any stage.

Kevin Bonham
03-05-2013, 06:31 PM
You don't seem to have edited Bjelobrk out of your stats.

Ta. I did not notice he had been removed from the first post. Edited.

Oepty
11-05-2013, 03:30 PM
I was wondering whether Ari Dale was the lowest rated player to gain the IM title from the zonal.

Rating when gaining the IM title

James Morris 2114
David Smerdon 2173
Andrew Brown 2175
Ari Dale 2222
Irina Berezina 2230
Zong Yuan Zhao 2242
Puchen Wang 2251
Mirko Rujevic 2303
Paul Garbett 2312
Anthony Ker 2321
Igor Bjelobrk 2329
Vladimir Feldman 2330
Mark Chapman 2338

Kevin Bonham
17-06-2013, 12:57 PM
Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

IM
Igor Bjelobrk
Ari Dale

FM
Anton Smirnov

WIM
Katherine Jarek

WFM
Hilda Vukikomoala (Fiji)
Savithri Narenthran

Note re Justin Tan and Anton Smirnov: Justin was awarded the title by rating on the same day as he would have otherwise been awarded it from the Zonal. Anton was awarded it from the Zonal on the same day as he (provisionally) crossed by rating.

Updating previous total comments, changes in bold (and I'm giving Chapman benefit of the doubt on whether he has the norms until I hear otherwise) :

There are 60 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 50 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

Of the dual holders:

* Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
* Maroroa has achieved the requirement for WFM the normal way by crossing 2100 in the 4NCL 2012-13 round 5.
* I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

Of the single holders, the following have later (or earlier) achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

IM (11 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Wang, Chapman, Bjelobrk, Dale - but I am not sure whether Chapman, Dale or Bjelobrk would have enough norms
WIM (6 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
FM (24 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Smirnov, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson, Saw (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
WFM (10 holders excluding duals): Nil

Thus in total of 55 winners of 60 zonal titles, it seems that 16-19 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 18-21 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.

Corrections welcome.

ER
17-06-2013, 01:48 PM
Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

IM
Igor Bjelobrk
Ari Dale

FM
Anton Smirnov

WIM
Katherine Jarek

WFM
Hilda Vukikomoala (Fiji)
Savithri Narenthran


Hi Kev, shouldn't Justin be on this list or am I missing something? His name appears on the previous (Bill's) list

Kevin Bonham
17-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Hi Kev, shouldn't Justin be on this list or am I missing something? His name appears on the previous (Bill's) list

Bill edited his list just after I posted mine.

FIDE awarded the title to Justin by rating, with notice of that reaching me at 8:03 pm on 11 June. Since he was already titled but had not been titled at the time of the event, they did not include him in the list of Zonal titles which reached me at 9:35 pm on 11 June. Otherwise they would have, and his eligibility meant that the FM title didn't cascade down to the next person. I actually initially applied for Justin's title by rating on 1 June but FIDE either didn't receive or else lost the email at that time.

It's a matter of interpretation whether to include him on the list or not.

In terms of when he completed the requirements, he completed the rating requirement (as confirmed by later processing) when he defeated Gary Lane in round seven of the Zonal.

Adamski
18-06-2013, 08:21 AM
Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

IM
Igor Bjelobrk
Ari Dale

FM
Anton Smirnov...
WFM...
Maroroa...Most of these title winners I have previously congratulated but not Kiwi Sue Maroroa. Well done Sue and all the title holders whom Kevin named.

ER
18-06-2013, 09:17 AM
[list snipped - no need to quote full list for one line reply - mod]

Thanks Bill, a very interesting and inclusive list!

Keong Ang
18-06-2013, 09:22 AM
Most of these title winners I have previously congratulated but not Kiwi Sue Mararoa. Well done Sue and all the title holders whom Kevin named.
???
Wasn't Kevin was on about Sue Maroroa earning a WFM by normal rating means. Her published rating high is 2099, so I'm assuming Kevin was referring to an interim rating.

Sue is already a WIM from the 2009 zonal in Gold Coast. So we should not be demoting her, let alone congratulate a demotion! (that did not happen).
She has still not reached 2300 rating to earn FM through ratings.

Regretfully, Sue can no longer enter an Oceania zonal since she had transferred to the ENG federation.

Bill Gletsos
18-06-2013, 11:25 AM
Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

IM
Igor Bjelobrk
Ari Dale

FM
Anton Smirnov...
WFM...
Mararoa...Most of these title winners I have previously congratulated but not Kiwi Sue Mararoa. Well done Sue and all the title holders whom Kevin named.Somehow you messed up your quoting of Kevin's list of 2013 title winners and included Sue. She did not even play in the 2013 Zonal having achieved the WIM title back in the 2009 Zonal.

Kevin Bonham
18-06-2013, 11:50 AM
It is good if people do trim what they are quoting rather than quoting a massive chunk of text for a reply that is only a few lines long. However it's also important when trimming to avoid doing so in a misleading way that gives an incorrect impression.

If quoting text and modifying it by snipping sections within the quoted text use [..] to replace the snipped material to make it clear that words do not follow directly after each other.

There is not only a list of zonal titles on this thread but also my analysis of how many players have achieved the normal requirements for the Zonal titles that they hold. This is of interest to some people because of the proliferation of titles in Australia as a result of Zonals. Sue Maroroa was awarded the title based on a Zonal in 2009 but has also just reached the normal rating requirement for the title.

Bill Gletsos
18-06-2013, 12:28 PM
She has still not reached 2300 rating to earn FM through ratings.The WFM requirement is a rating of 2100.

Keong Ang
19-06-2013, 11:29 AM
The WFM requirement is a rating of 2100.
Exactly. The WFM what I was referring to when saying Sue's published rating high is 2099 and so Kevin must have been referring to some interim rating (that was at or above 2100).

I was saying that Sue has not reached 2300 to earn a FM through ratings. Should be taken in the context of messed up quoting that you had mentioned.

ER
19-06-2013, 01:12 PM
I quoted the whole thing for its very important historical value!

Kevin Bonham
19-06-2013, 01:40 PM
I quoted the whole thing for its very important historical value!

It's already on the site once for that purpose and doesn't need to be so again!

lost
19-06-2013, 02:20 PM
Just for those who are interested to know or don't know as of yet, WIM Sue Maroroa is now flying under the English flag for obvious reasons.

So its probably best to say that she is no longer a zone 3.6er now only by history.

lost

Adamski
20-06-2013, 07:24 AM
Somehow you messed up your quoting of Kevin's list of 2013 title winners and included Sue. She did not even play in the 2013 Zonal having achieved the WIM title back in the 2009 Zonal.Thanks Bill, Kevin and Keong. Points taken.

Kevin Bonham
31-08-2014, 09:21 AM
I've made a correction to #12 because I've found that in the 2009 Doeberl Cup, FM Geoff Saw gained 20.55 live rating points in the first four rounds from a start rating of 2279, which rounds up to 21 (ie 2300), prior to then dropping back to 2280 over subsequent rounds. So he is added to the list of Zonal FMs who have gone on to qualify for FM by conventional means.

As noted on other threads CM Jack Puccini is slated to gain 104 rating points from a 7/7 score this period taking him from 2096 to 2200. This makes him the first Australian to accept a CM title from a zonal then later qualify for it by other means. (Others have qualified for the title without accepting it then later done so.) [EDIT: He has since become an FM as well.]

Tony Dowden
05-09-2014, 10:44 PM
Unsure if this issue has been aired before - I bet it has - but it's mildly disappointing to discover CM titles were invented in 2002 and for many years I was safely over 2200 and I qualified outright for the title at the Bled OL in 2002 with (above) a 50% score I presume, yet the first I heard about the title was when it was already too late for me to apply for it (and when my rating had dropped well under 2200). Probably affected a few others in that era too.

Kevin Bonham
05-09-2014, 11:27 PM
Unsure if this issue has been aired before - I bet it has - but it's mildly disappointing to discover CM titles were invented in 2002 and for many years I was safely over 2200 and I qualified outright for the title at the Bled OL in 2002 with (above) a 50% score I presume, yet the first I heard about the title was when it was already too late for me to apply for it (and when my rating had dropped well under 2200). Probably affected a few others in that era too.

When I look at your rating profile I see that in the Jan 2006 period (ie sometime in late 2005) you gained six FIDE points in nine games to go from 2184 to 2190. However - and this is odd - I can't click to bring up the results of that tournament.

Do you know what it was? If by some chance you went over a live rating of 2200 in that event (or perhaps it was multiple events) then I think you could still be eligible.

I'm not sure exactly when the 2200 rating for CM came in except that it was not after mid-2005.

I can confirm that FIDE don't backdate CM claims in the case of feats that would have qualified the player for CM had they been achieved today. The rules have to have been met at the time.

Tony Dowden
06-03-2015, 11:53 PM
When I look at your rating profile I see that in the Jan 2006 period (ie sometime in late 2005) you gained six FIDE points in nine games to go from 2184 to 2190. However - and this is odd - I can't click to bring up the results of that tournament.

Do you know what it was? If by some chance you went over a live rating of 2200 in that event (or perhaps it was multiple events) then I think you could still be eligible.

I'm not sure exactly when the 2200 rating for CM came in except that it was not after mid-2005.

I can confirm that FIDE don't backdate CM claims in the case of feats that would have qualified the player for CM had they been achieved today. The rules have to have been met at the time.

Hi Kevin,

I've just noticed your post!

I've looked in the Otago Chess Club archives (online and accessible without a password) and think this must be the event in question:

Otago Chess Club Championship – 1 October 2005: In yet another convincing performance, Richard Sutton has retained his title with a game in hand (currently on 7/8) - making it four in a row from 2001 to 2005. With some games to play in the A grade 2nd= has gone to Tony Dowden (in his last club tournament for some time, alas) and Quentin Johnson on 7/9. While a very creditable 4th was earned by junior Andrew Stone, finishing on 5/9.

I know my last or second last game was against Quentin Johnson (which I lost) and was played just before I moved to Tasmania ... but I doubt I managed to breach 2200 at any point.

The archives do say this though:

OCC Championship Update – 17 August
Tony Dowden is leading the A grade win 6 wins from six games played, ahead of Geoff Aimers with 3/6, defending champion Richard Sutton 3/3, Quentin Johnson 3/4 and Don Storey 3/6. The crunch will likely come when top three seeds Dowden, Sutton & Johnson square off.

Qbert
23-03-2015, 11:43 AM
I know my last or second last game was against Quentin Johnson (which I lost) and was played just before I moved to Tasmania ... but I doubt I managed to breach 2200 at any point.

The archives do say this though:

OCC Championship Update 17 August
Tony Dowden is leading the A grade win 6 wins from six games played, ahead of Geoff Aimers with 3/6, defending champion Richard Sutton 3/3, Quentin Johnson 3/4 and Don Storey 3/6. The crunch will likely come when top three seeds Dowden, Sutton & Johnson square off.

Hi Tony,
looking at the scoretable (http://otagochess.wikispaces.com/2005+News+Archive) four of your opponents were unrated at the start of the tournament, so presumably achieved their first rating at the end of the event. I'm no expert, but I think that rules out any possible live rating over 2200 during the event, as those games would be unrated at least until the end in order to get the 9 games.

Tony Dowden
25-03-2015, 10:56 PM
Hi Tony,
looking at the scoretable (http://otagochess.wikispaces.com/2005+News+Archive) four of your opponents were unrated at the start of the tournament, so presumably achieved their first rating at the end of the event. I'm no expert, but I think that rules out any possible live rating over 2200 during the event, as those games would be unrated at least until the end in order to get the 9 games.

Thanks Quentin, I'll just have to play in a zonal (or two) ... something I've never managed to find the time for in the past.

Kevin Bonham
23-01-2017, 04:37 PM
It will be interesting to see how many of the new crop of Zonal-FMs have met the normal rating requirement for FM by the time of the next Zonal.

For the statistics compiled in #12, I am treating the current system differently from the previous system because of the large changes before 2015. Of the five 2015 direct title winners (excluding CM/WCM) two (Chen and Loh) have so far also qualified for FM by rating.

Capablanca-Fan
24-01-2017, 01:03 AM
I am treating the current system differently from the previous system because of the large changes before 2015. Of the five 2015 direct title winners (excluding CM/WCM) two (Chen and Loh) have so far also qualified for FM by rating.
Congrats to them!

junior
24-01-2017, 08:52 AM
Hi kevin how do you get the form to pay 80 dollars for the CM title?

Kevin Bonham
24-01-2017, 09:21 AM
Hi kevin how do you get the form to pay 80 dollars for the CM title?

See here:

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?16417-2017-Oceania-Zonal-in-Auckland&p=419767&viewfull=1#post419767

ER
24-01-2017, 09:37 AM
Hi kevin how do you get the form to pay 80 dollars for the CM title?

WOW Junior you 've made it! Congratulations!!! I am sure that now your dad won't have anymore doubts
about your talent and progress in chess so your entering tournaments will be much easier! :)
Keep up the good work!

junior
24-01-2017, 09:45 AM
WOW Junior you 've made it! Congratulations!!! I am sure that now your dad won't have anymore doubts
about your talent and progress in chess so your entering tournaments will be much easier! :)
Keep up the good work!

haha thanks he is sometimes a bit hard to convince but next year i can go myself so thats good

Kevin Bonham
22-03-2017, 10:49 PM
For the purposes of the tracking in #12 - as noted by Thomas on the Soft Titles thread, Ari Dale has cracked 2400 live rating. I don't know how many IM norm performances he has had.

Thebes
23-03-2017, 12:00 AM
For the purposes of the tracking in #12 - as noted by Thomas on the Soft Titles thread, Ari Dale has cracked 2400 live rating. I don't know how many IM norm performances he has had.

For Ari, was Tata Steel C group good enough?

Kevin Bonham
23-03-2017, 12:11 AM
For Ari, was Tata Steel C group good enough?

Yes so that's one at least. I think it would have been a ten game norm had he required it, as he beat the nine-game requirement by a point. He may have others.

Tony Dowden
07-02-2019, 10:03 PM
Thanks Quentin, I'll just have to play in a zonal (or two) ... something I've never managed to find the time for in the past.

Hah, I'm finally managing to compete in my first zonal! About 18 months ago my wife and I decided we'd both go to the next Zonal but we thought it would be held in Fiji. Now I'm going to Guam to play chess and she is going to Germany to see family!

Oh, this thread is about zonal titles. Well, I reckon I'll be bringing one home. If it's a CM, well I already qualified for that twice. If it's an FM, I'm hoping I can justify it. But if it's an IM, Max will probably have some explaining to do and I'll probably find that the love from the chess mafia is so intense that I'll have to retire from Chess Chat for a decade or two.

Kevin Bonham
07-02-2019, 11:26 PM
It will be interesting to see how many of the new crop of Zonal-FMs have met the normal rating requirement for FM by the time of the next Zonal.

For the statistics compiled in #12, I am treating the current system differently from the previous system because of the large changes before 2015. Of the five 2015 direct title winners (excluding CM/WCM) two (Chen and Loh) have so far also qualified for FM by rating.

I get that 2/11 of the 2017 Zonal FM-winners (and none of the others) have since qualified for their titles in the normal way: Daniel Gong by rating, Luis Chan by live rating.

That makes 4/21 of the 2015-2017 Zonal title-winners who have so far qualified for the same titles the hard way.

The 2019 crop will be yet another different category because of the rating floor for getting the title, meaning that some people will receive Zonal titles long after the tournament.

MichaelBaron
08-02-2019, 12:14 AM
Hah, I'm finally managing to compete in my first zonal! About 18 months ago my wife and I decided we'd both go to the next Zonal but we thought it would be held in Fiji. Now I'm going to Guam to play chess and she is going to Germany to see family!

Oh, this thread is about zonal titles. Well, I reckon I'll be bringing one home. If it's a CM, well I already qualified for that twice. If it's an FM, I'm hoping I can justify it. But if it's an IM, Max will probably have some explaining to do and I'll probably find that the love from the chess mafia is so intense that I'll have to retire from Chess Chat for a decade or two.

Well, right now you are probably one of our strongest 2100-rated players. With an IM title you will suddenly be ''reclassified'' into Australia's weakest IM :)

Tony Dowden
08-02-2019, 08:33 AM
Well, right now you are probably one of our strongest 2100-rated players. With an IM title you will suddenly be ''reclassified'' into Australia's weakest IM :)

Luckily I play for New Zealand :) I'm the only active National Master (of NZ) who doesn't have a GM, IM or FM title.

MichaelBaron
08-02-2019, 10:31 AM
Luckily I play for New Zealand :) I'm the only active National Master (of NZ) who doesn't have a GM, IM or FM title.

In the light of this, and your hard-fought effort against Beliavsky at the 1982 Ollyimpiad, I can personally guarantee that there will be no attacks (warm congratulations only) in case you secure your FM title at the Zonal :).

Should you become an IM though, I may still have something to say :)

On a serous note, wishing you good luck with the tournament and good times in Guam (it is an interesting place to visit I guess)

machomortensen
08-02-2019, 08:01 PM
Yeah also a BIG good luck - Tony - in Guam from me.

Tony Dowden
08-02-2019, 08:04 PM
In the light of this, and your hard-fought effort against Beliavsky at the 1982 Ollyimpiad, I can personally guarantee that there will be no attacks (warm congratulations only) in case you secure your FM title at the Zonal :).

Should you become an IM though, I may still have something to say :)

On a serous note, wishing you good luck with the tournament and good times in Guam (it is an interesting place to visit I guess)

Thanks Michael, now I'll be able to sleep on the flight to Guam :)

Tony Dowden
08-02-2019, 08:06 PM
Yeah also a BIG good luck - Tony - in Guam from me.


Thanks Henrik :)

Kevin Bonham
08-02-2019, 09:21 PM
Well, right now you are probably one of our strongest 2100-rated players. With an IM title you will suddenly be ''reclassified'' into Australia's weakest IM :)

Discounting the fact that he's registered to NZL, if he won the thing he would probably gain the 13 ratings points currently needed for this to not be the case!

Tony Dowden
09-02-2019, 08:55 AM
Discounting the fact that he's registered to NZL, if he won the thing he would probably gain the 13 ratings points currently needed for this to not be the case!

Yes, I thought of exactly the same argument but I'm sure Michael was just using hyperbole - that much loved Australian figure of speech that is predominant on this website.

Besides, IM Paul Garbett (2222) is currently NZ's weakest IM and I'd be a long way short of that! And this discussion is decidedly 'academic' anyway as, assuming Max can complete nine rounds, the chances of anyone gaining an outright IM title at the Zonal are pretty negligible :)

Kevin Bonham
09-02-2019, 12:02 PM
Posts moved

I've moved a few posts discussing the perceived softness of Oceania Zonal titles to the more general "soft titles" thread:

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?3707-soft-titles-(sf-Zonal-threads-bumped-with-new-posts)

I may move more. Anyone wishing to discuss thread placement of posts may do so in the Help and Feedback section only.