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Kevin Bonham
10-08-2012, 03:01 PM
Had a phone call from a journalist this week who wanted to know why no Tasmanian had ever won the Australian championships.

I do not know if it would be possible to get a complete breakdown of Australian champions by state at the time of their winning the title but it would be interesting to know how other non-NSW/Vic states have fared in producing Australian champions.

So, of the following list, how many are known to have been from SA, WA, ACT, Qld or NT? And how many if any have been technically expatriates (ie living outside Australia, not connected to any state association, but eligible anyway)?

Obviously Solomon = Qld. The Koshnitskys of course have been linked to SA for a long time but I don't know if Gary was in SA when he won his titles. How many others?

List of champions and venues per the ACF website below.


1885 F.K. Esling Melbourne
1887 H. Charlick Adelaide
1888 W. Crane Melbourne
1893 A.E.N. Wallace Sydney
1895 A.E.N. Wallace Melbourne
1896 A.E.N. Wallace Sydney
1897 W. Crane Warrnambool
1897 J.L. Jacobsen (match v W. Crane) Sydney
1906 W.S. Viner Perth
1912-1913 W.S. Viner Bellingen (NSW)
1922 C.G.M. Watson Melbourne
1924 W.S. Viner Brisbane
1926 S. Crackanthorp Sydney
1928-1929 S. Crackanthorp Perth
1930-1931 C.G.M. Watson Melbourne
1932-1933 G. Koshnitsky Sydney
1934-1935 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne
1936-1937 C.J.S. Purdy Perth
1938-1939 G. Koshnitsky Sydney
1945 L. Steiner Sydney
1946-1947 L. Steiner Adelaide
1948-1949 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne
1950-1951 C.J.S. Purdy Brisbane
1952-1953 L.Steiner Hobart
1954-1955 J. Purdy Perth
1956-1957 K. Ozols & S. Lazare Melbourne
1958-1959 L. Steiner Sydney
1960-1961 L. Endzelins Adelaide
1962-1963 J. Purdy Perth
1964-1965 D.G. Hamilton Hobart
1966-1967 D.G. Hamilton Brisbane
1968-1969 W.S. Browne Melbourne
1969-1970 A. Flatow Sydney
1971-1972 M. Fuller & T. Hay Melbourne
1973-1974 R.M. Jamieson Cooma (NSW)
1975-1976 S. Rubanraut Sydney
1977-1978 R.M. Jamieson Perth
1979-1980 I. Rogers Adelaide
1981-1982 D.G. Hamilton Melbourne
1983-1984 D.K. Johansen Sydney
1985-1986 I. Rogers Toowoomba (QLD)
1987-1988 D.K. Johansen Gosford (NSW)
1989-1990 D.K. Johansen Sydney
1991-1992 A. Wohl Melbourne
1993-1994 J-P. Wallace Melbourne
1995-1996 G. West Sydney
1997-1998 I. Rogers Melbourne
1999-2000 D.K. Johansen Tumbi Umbi (NSW)
2001-2002 D.K. Johansen Melbourne
2003-2004 Gary Lane Adelaide
2005-2006 Ian Rogers Brisbane
2007-2008 Stephen Solomon Parramatta (NSW)
2009-2010 Zong-Yuan Zhao Cammeray (NSW)
2011-2012 D.K. Johansen Geelong (VIC)

Rincewind
10-08-2012, 03:03 PM
Had a phone call from a journalist this week who wanted to know why no Tasmanian had ever won the Australian championships.

Surely Rogers is Tasmanian by birth.

Kevin Bonham
10-08-2012, 03:05 PM
Surely Rogers is Tasmanian by birth.

Yes, I informed the journalist of this. :lol:

Rincewind
10-08-2012, 03:33 PM
My understanding from a little poking around (take with a grain of salt)...

Fredrick Esling was from Vic

Henry Charlick was from SA

William Crane (jnr) was from NSW

Alfred Wallace was from NSW

Julius Jacobsen probably NSW but I don't know for sure.

William Viner originally from NSW but lived in WA for an extended period Won the WA State Champion in 1905 and Australian Championship in 1906 but may have relocated to NSW in the meantime but given it was held in Perth probably still in WA at the time.

Charles Watson was from Vic

Spencer Crackanthorp was from NSW

Gary Koshnitsky was from Queensland and then NSW. He moved to SA in 1961 and so did not win a championship "for" SA. I suspect both of his Australian titles were won while in NSW.

Cecil Purdy was from NSW

I didn't worry about the post WWII champions as those are mostly well known.

ER
10-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Had a phone call from a journalist ...




1934-1935 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne
1936-1937 C.J.S. Purdy Perth
1948-1949 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne
1950-1951 C.J.S. Purdy Brisbane
1954-1955 J. Purdy Perth
1962-1963 J. Purdy Perth



Interesting neither of the Purdys ever won the Australian Championship in their home ground (Sydney or other NSW cities)

Was J. Purdy a WA resident when he won it there twice though?

On the other hand, GMs D. Johansen and I. Rogers seem to be quite indiscriminant when it comes to winning their titles in various states!

In the camp of champions who have never (yet :) ) won it in their own state we can include R. Jamieson, (twice) D. Hamilton, G. West, A. Wohl, J-P. Wallace and Stephen Solomon!

jammo
10-08-2012, 09:45 PM
In the camp of champions who have never (yet :) ) won it in their own state we can include R. Jamieson, (twice) D. Hamilton, G. West, A. Wohl, J-P. Wallace and Stephen Solomon!

DG Hamilton, 1982 Melbourne, but the question of champions winning in their own state seems totally irrelevant to me. Perhaps it interests some people.

Why have their been no champions from Tasmania? Isn't it obvious? They don't have any good chess players. Otto Weber was perhaps the closest but even that was many years ago.

I know a street in Mt.Waverley which once had two Australian Championship players living in it. Why, I wonder has the next street along never had any?

Denis_Jessop
10-08-2012, 10:00 PM
Was J. Purdy a WA resident when he won it there twice though?



No - NSW.

DJ

ER
10-08-2012, 10:14 PM
DG Hamilton, 1982 Melbourne

Thanks for the correction!


No - NSW.

Thanks for answering!

Kevin Bonham
10-08-2012, 10:16 PM
It's been suggested to me that Wohl was based in SA the year before he won so it might be useful to resolve which state claimed him at that time.


Why have their been no champions from Tasmania? Isn't it obvious? They don't have any good chess players. Otto Weber was perhaps the closest but even that was many years ago.

Otto Weber was certainly the closest by far and his successes come as a bit of a surprise to those who stereotype the state as always uncompetitive on the national stage. His best effort was in 1962-3 when he was in serious contention on 6/7 but then lost four in a row. Still he finished =3rd which was effectively =2nd as the player in second was ineligible. He was also =3rd in 1956-7. He had a few other decent results in the Champs as well.

Weber was of course an "import" having moved to the state from overseas as an adult, but this is also true of a number of other leading players in the decades following WW2. And the Tas scene at the time can't have been too weak or Weber would have won every single title in his time here; as it was he won the state title "only" 13 out of 16 times.

I don't believe any other Tas-based player has ever got anywhere near 50% in the Aus Champs.

Given that there have been only 30 Australian champions, on population alone it is no great surprise that no Tasmanian has won but I also pointed out to the journalist that players gain from regularly competing against and being coached by very strong players and if you only have players of a certain strength in a state to begin with you don't just get grandmasters out of nowhere.

I suspect that states other than Vic and NSW are, as a group, under-represented on the honour roll for the same reason.

Denis_Jessop
10-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Had a phone call from a journalist this week who wanted to know why no Tasmanian had ever won the Australian championships.

I do not know if it would be possible to get a complete breakdown of Australian champions by state at the time of their winning the title but it would be interesting to know how other non-NSW/Vic states have fared in producing Australian champions.

So, of the following list, how many are known to have been from SA, WA, ACT, Qld or NT? And how many if any have been technically expatriates (ie living outside Australia, not connected to any state association, but eligible anyway)?

Obviously Solomon = Qld. The Koshnitskys of course have been linked to SA for a long time but I don't know if Gary was in SA when he won his titles. How many others?

List of champions and venues per the ACF website below.


1885 F.K. Esling Melbourne Vic
1887 H. Charlick Adelaide SA
1888 W. Crane Melbourne NSW
1893 A.E.N. Wallace Sydney NSW
1895 A.E.N. Wallace Melbourne NSW
1896 A.E.N. Wallace Sydney NSW
1897 W. Crane Warrnambool NSW
1897 J.L. Jacobsen (match v W. Crane) Sydney ?NSW
1906 W.S. Viner Perth WA
1912-1913 W.S. Viner Bellingen (NSW) NSW?
1922 C.G.M. Watson Melbourne Vic
1924 W.S. Viner Brisbane NSW
1926 S. Crackanthorp Sydney NSW
1928-1929 S. Crackanthorp Perth NSW
1930-1931 C.G.M. Watson Melbourne Vic
1932-1933 G. Koshnitsky Sydney NSW
1934-1935 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne NSW
1936-1937 C.J.S. Purdy Perth NSW
1938-1939 G. Koshnitsky Sydney NSW
1945 L. Steiner Sydney NSW
1946-1947 L. Steiner Adelaide NSW
1948-1949 C.J.S. Purdy Melbourne NSW
1950-1951 C.J.S. Purdy Brisbane NSW
1952-1953 L.Steiner Hobart NSW
1954-1955 J. Purdy Perth NSW
1956-1957 K. Ozols & S. Lazare Melbourne Vic & Vic
1958-1959 L. Steiner Sydney NSW
1960-1961 L. Endzelins Adelaide SA
1962-1963 J. Purdy Perth NSW
1964-1965 D.G. Hamilton Hobart Vic
1966-1967 D.G. Hamilton Brisbane Vic
1968-1969 W.S. Browne Melbourne Ex-pat. USA
1969-1970 A. Flatow Sydney NSW
1971-1972 M. Fuller & T. Hay Melbourne NSW & NSW
1973-1974 R.M. Jamieson Cooma (NSW) Vic
1975-1976 S. Rubanraut Sydney NSW
1977-1978 R.M. Jamieson Perth Vic
1979-1980 I. Rogers Adelaide Vic
1981-1982 D.G. Hamilton Melbourne
1983-1984 D.K. Johansen Sydney
1985-1986 I. Rogers Toowoomba (QLD)
1987-1988 D.K. Johansen Gosford (NSW)
1989-1990 D.K. Johansen Sydney
1991-1992 A. Wohl Melbourne
1993-1994 J-P. Wallace Melbourne
1995-1996 G. West Sydney
1997-1998 I. Rogers Melbourne
1999-2000 D.K. Johansen Tumbi Umbi (NSW)
2001-2002 D.K. Johansen Melbourne
2003-2004 Gary Lane Adelaide
2005-2006 Ian Rogers Brisbane
2007-2008 Stephen Solomon Parramatta (NSW)
2009-2010 Zong-Yuan Zhao Cammeray (NSW)
2011-2012 D.K. Johansen Geelong (VIC)

I've put in States for those to 1980 based on the list in Ian Rogers' book "Australian Chess into the Eighties". I can't remember when Ian moved from Vic to NSW - perhaps he can say:) Ian doesn't mention Jacobsen while Cathy Chua ("Australian Chess at the Top") mentions him but doesn't seem to say where he came from.

Post 1980 are mostly well known. There are none from the ACT or NT and only Solo from Qld. Kosh lived in Qld when he first came to Australia but not for long when he moved to Sydney. Much later he went to SA.

DJ

Rincewind
10-08-2012, 11:29 PM
Ian doesn't mention Jacobsen while Cathy Chua ("Australian Chess at the Top") mentions him but doesn't seem to say where he came from.

All the games listed here seem to be NSW based including NSW ch of 1901. It's isn't much to go on but seems to point to probably NSW.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=126907

Kevin Bonham
10-08-2012, 11:34 PM
Thanks very much Barry and Denis.

Denis_Jessop
11-08-2012, 02:04 PM
All the games listed here seem to be NSW based including NSW ch of 1901. It's isn't much to go on but seems to point to probably NSW.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=126907

I think so. He also won the title in a match against Crane who was from NSW.

DJ

peter_parr
12-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Players resident in the State of NSW at the time of the Australian Championships (1885 - 2012) have not surprisingly won more Australian Championships than players from all other states combined. Special mention of course to the Victorian player GM Darryl Johansen the record six time winner.

dbaussie
30-08-2012, 12:53 PM
All the games listed here seem to be NSW based including NSW ch of 1901. It's isn't much to go on but seems to point to probably NSW.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=126907


Jacobsen was born in England, moved to Brisbane for a few years and then moved to Sydney.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15665263?searchTerm=jacobsen%20chess&searchLimits=

Denis_Jessop
30-08-2012, 04:10 PM
Jacobsen was born in England, moved to Brisbane for a few years and then moved to Sydney.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15665263?searchTerm=jacobsen%20chess&searchLimits=

Thanks for that reference. Trove is an invaluable source as I discovered last year when preparing a history of the Canberra Chess Club. Unfortunately I think it suffered a funding cut after the last budget.

DJ

Tony Dowden
02-11-2012, 10:31 PM
Why have their been no champions from Tasmania? Isn't it obvious? They don't have any good chess players.

Unnecessary! (Using the same logic, why haven't there been any [real] world champions from Australia?)

jammo
04-11-2012, 02:30 PM
Unnecessary! (Using the same logic, why haven't there been any [real] world champions from Australia?)

This is just a stab in the dark, but maybe because we haven't had any players ranked in the top 25 in the world.

Can you understand the logic of that?

Denis_Jessop
04-11-2012, 04:15 PM
Unnecessary! (Using the same logic, why haven't there been any [real] world champions from Australia?)

I take it that correspondence chess is unreal :)

DJ

Tony Dowden
23-12-2012, 11:27 AM
I take it that correspondence chess is unreal :)

DJ

Yes it is, I have no idea how they have so much patience (although these days having 2900 strength engines helps)

Tony Dowden
23-12-2012, 11:28 AM
This is just a stab in the dark, but maybe because we haven't had any players ranked in the top 25 in the world.

Can you understand the logic of that?

Hmm, Ushenina is the black swan then ;)

FM_Bill
20-01-2013, 10:29 AM
I know a street in Mt.Waverley which once had two Australian Championship players living in it. Why, I wonder has the next street along never had any? posted by Jammo.

I always thought these 2 players lived in houses one behind the other.

Playing at in your own state has its pros and cons. In one Australian championship, after my original billet reneged, I was put in a boarding house full of alcoholics with no lock on my door. I lost my first 3 games. After I moved in with Max Fuller and Pat Halpin in good accomodation, I was 4.5 out of my next five. Pat and Max would go out all night drinking and return when the sun came up. Max came equal first.