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Rincewind
27-05-2011, 12:39 AM
I saw a trivia item today that said if you start from any page in Wikipedia and click on the first link not in italics or parentheses and keep doing that you will end up at the Philosophy page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy)

I only ran one test from Metallica...

Metallica
Heavy metal music
Rock music
Popular music
Musical genre
Genre
Literature
Fiction
Narrative
Latin
Italic languages
Indo-European languages
Language family
Language
Human
Taxonomy
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Finite set
Mathematics
Quantity
Property (philosophy)
Modern philosophy
Philosophy

This thread is for posting others if you can be bothered to record the network. I'd be very interested in a counter example which would only be solid I guess if you link to a page with no other links (highly unlikely) or wind up in a loop back to a page higher up in the invocation list (unlikely but the noly really counter example I can think of). Of course if you wind up at any of the pages above then you will follow this chain to Philosophy.

Rincewind
27-05-2011, 12:54 AM
Here is another

Robert Jordan
Pen name
Pseudonym
Name
Noun
Linguistics
Human
(then joins chain above)


And another...

Nazism
Ideology
Idea
Mind
Panpsychism
Philosophy


And another...

Chess
Board game
Game
Playing
Ethology
Zoology
Biology
Natural science
Science
(then joins chain above)

Rincewind
27-05-2011, 01:07 AM
OK one more...

Babatu
1976
George Lucas
Screenwriter
Screenplay
Film
Recording
Process
Milk
Mammary gland
Organ (anatomy)
Biology
(then joins the chain for chess)

Oepty
27-05-2011, 01:57 AM
It seems to be right because almost everything seems to be first decribed as being part of a bigger it belongs too. This means they all get back to the pages on science or state which lead to philosophy.

starting from the goal we get.
philosophy
existence
sense
organism
biology
natural science
science
knowledge
fact
information
sequence
mathematics
quantity
property_(philosophy)
Modern_philosophy
philosophy

So if philosophy is reachable from every wikipedia page so are all of the pages in the list after philosophy until philosophy is reached again. This would also have to be the only loop of links in wikipedia.
Scott

Oepty
27-05-2011, 02:08 AM
And as soon as I post that I find a counter example

Finance
Funding
Resources
Availability
Transmission_(telecommunications)
Telecommunication
Transmission_(telecommunications)

also

Idiot_box
Television
Telecommunication
Transmission_(telecommunications)
Telecommunication

Trivia failed!!!

you cannot get philosophy from the idiot box, makes sense
Scott

Kevin Bonham
27-05-2011, 02:42 AM
Doesn't surprise me that the chance of this would be high. Searching for other discussions I found that most of the claimed counter-examples were wrong and those that were right were two-page loops. For instance the first link for Soviet Union is labelled "constitutionally" but then goes to Constitution of the Soviet Union, which goes back to Soviet Union. At least at the moment.

One of the products of the observation is that there are apparently now people deliberately editing to either attempt to create loops or remove them. This has created edit wars that have caused some pages to be locked.

Quick loops and deliberate manipulation aside it seems the challenge is to find a concept that is so indescribable that it won't reduce to geography, science, language, maths etc.

Some I tried:

Cowry
Common name
Taxon
Taxonomist
science
knowledge
facts
information
sequence
mathematics
quantity
property
modern philosophy
philosophy

binturong
Viverridae
family
biological classification
biologists
scientist
systematic
elements
mathematics
(as above)

Doctor Who
science fiction television
Science fiction
genre
literature
fiction
narrative
Latin
Italic language
Indo-European
family
languages
human
(as per RW)

2006 Tasmanian State Election
House of Assembly
Parliament of Tasmania
Tasmanian Legislative Council
chambers
parliaments
legislature
deliberative assembly
organization
social group
social cohesion
social policy
human welfare
(redirects to quality of life)
international development
foreign aid
international relations
states (redirects to sovereign states)
state
social sciences
fields
academic
community
interacting
action (redirects to action theory (philosophy))
philosophy

723
common year starting on Friday
calendar
organizing
elements
Chemical element
chemical substance
chemistry
science
(etc)

Fiat 500
car
wheeled
transport
goods
commercial
buying
ownership
rights
principles
law
system
elements
mathematics
(etc)

Capricorn (astrology)
astrological sign
zodiac
astronomy
natural science
science
(etc)

Goya
romantic
Industrial Revolution
socioeconomic
umbrella term
superset (redirects to subset)
mathematics
(etc)

laziness
couch potato
medical
vocabulary
words
language
(etc)

Macintosh
personal computers
computer
machine
energy
physics
natural science
(etc that didn't take long)

Fishing
fish
gill
respiratory organ
respiration
physiology
science (etc)

Kevin Bonham
27-05-2011, 02:45 AM
you cannot get philosophy from the idiot box, makes sense

Excellent!

There was an unsourced comment I saw somewhere that said 93% of sites went to Philosophy (and its multi-article loop) and the other 7% to two-article loops like the one you got. Presumably there would be other multi-article loops but they would be very rare.

Kevin Bonham
27-05-2011, 02:57 AM
This reminds me slightly of an exercise I tried a long time ago (don't do this unless you have way too much time on your hands!)

Using a comprehensive dictionary, select a word. Replace the word with its definition. Then go through each word in the definition and replace it with its definition, and keep doing this with the new definitions as well, subject to two constraints:

1. the definition must work as a replacement for the word. So, for instance, it is acceptable to replace "wyvern" with "winged two-legged dragon with a barbed tail" but it is not acceptable to replace "an" with "the form of the indefinite article 'a' used before words beginning with a vowel sound" (Indeed, it is acceptable to cut corners here - if you get "an" and you can replace it with a meaning of "a" that doesn't kill the grammar, that is fine.)

2. once a word can't be defined without recursion, that word is an axiomatic word. Undo all the attempts to define it and every time you get to that word in future it just stays there.

What you end up with (eventually) is a very long, and grammatically incomprehensible, chain of repeats of a relatively small number of words. My starting point was "zucchini" and the final definition was over 1000 words long but only included about 70 actual different words. It started "object, which is not an object ..."

Oepty
28-05-2011, 02:35 AM
Barry_Cox
United_Kingdom
Sovereign_state
State_(polity)
Social_sciences
Field_of_study
Academia
Community
Interacting
Causal
Event
Observable
Physics
Natural_science
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Sequence
Mathematics
Quantity
Property_(philosophy)
Modern_philosophy
Philosophy

Rincewind
28-05-2011, 10:25 AM
Barry_Cox
United_Kingdom
Sovereign_state
State_(polity)
Social_sciences
Field_of_study
Academia
Community
Interacting
Causal
Event
Observable
Physics
Natural_science
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Sequence
Mathematics
Quantity
Property_(philosophy)
Modern_philosophy
Philosophy

That took a while. ;)

Kevin Bonham
28-05-2011, 12:13 PM
I tried "antiphilosophy" and found to my disgust that it redirected immediately to "anti-intellectualism".

antichrist
28-05-2011, 11:10 PM
I tried "antiphilosophy" and found to my disgust that it redirected immediately to "anti-intellectualism".

well that is not too bad in my book, like getting a XXXX instead of a Tooheys, no aussie would complain - in fact being Aussie is close enough is good enough.

What would have you expected?

Kevin Bonham
28-05-2011, 11:31 PM
What would have you expected?

Well, the term antiphilosophy is sometimes used for intellectual attacks on philosophy; for philosophies that "philosophy" as conventionally practiced is bunkum. It doesn't necessarily amount to anti-intellectualism as such.

beer
alcoholic beverages
drink
liquid
states of matter
phases (redirects to phase(matter) )
physical sciences
natural science
science
(etc)

William AS
28-05-2011, 11:58 PM
well that is not too bad in my book, like getting a XXXX instead of a Tooheys, no aussie would complain - in fact being Aussie is close enough is good enough.

What would have you expected?
Aah! That explains things, despite claims of being a Lebo AC is really behaving like a true Aussie with his posts! ;)

antichrist
30-05-2011, 10:19 AM
Aah! That explains things, despite claims of being a Lebo AC is really behaving like a true Aussie with his posts! ;)

I certainly was because even my analogie was only being close enough, it should have been some thing like: he wanted a beer but got a kava or wanted an Aussie but got AC, or wanted a Catholic but got a Muslim (not that is anything wrong with any of those alternatives) or wanted chesschat but got Toolbox

I am sure KB could not better these analogies

Kevin Bonham
30-05-2011, 04:01 PM
antichrist
Christ
canonical
scripture
sacred
worship
religious
cultural system
culture
Alfred Kroeber
American
federal
political
collective decisions
individuals
person
human being
(redirects to human, rest see above)