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Kevin Bonham
30-04-2011, 09:55 PM
Looks like this is all set to go (at least I haven't heard otherwise!) - series of matches to determine the next challenger for Anand.

1. Topalov vs Kamsky
2. Gelfand vs Mamedyarov
3. Aronian vs Grischuk
4. Kramnik vs Radjabov

Semi-final 1 winner of 1 vs winner of 2
Semi-final 2 winner of 3 vs winner of 4

Final between winners of semi-finals

Format: quarter-finals and semi-finals 4-game matches with tiebreaks if required

Final 6-game match with tiebreak if required

Two day break between stages and one day break after final game 3

Tiebreaks: Four rapids (25/10) then up to five pairs of blitz games (5/3) then armageddon (5 vs 4 with increment of 3 seconds from move 61).

Max Illingworth
30-04-2011, 10:21 PM
Thanks for setting up the poll Kevin.

Here are my quick predictions:

Topalov vs. Kamsky: Topalov is the stronger player and will win by a comfortable margin.

Gelfand vs. Mamedyarov: Mamedyarov will win, but only in the tiebreaks.

Aronian vs. Grischuk: Aronian will win the match without great difficulty.

Kramnik vs. Radjabov: Kramnik will win by the narrowest of margins.

Garvinator
30-04-2011, 10:58 PM
I want to see Topalov v Kramnik because the finals location is in Russia :owned:

Kevin Bonham
30-04-2011, 11:39 PM
Head to head records are of limited predictive use but anyway, in normal length games it may look something like this (I'm ignoring blindfold) :

Topalov +7=7-1 Kamsky (Kamsky +1 in rapid)

Gelfand +5=6-1 Mamedyarov (Gelfand +1 in rapid, players tied +3=1-3 in blitz)

Aronian +6=10-2 Grischuk (tied +1=1-1 in rapid and +1=2-1 in blitz)

Kramnik +3=9-0 Radjabov (tied =2 rapid +1-1 blitz)

These figures are from the chesslive.de database - it may be missing some games.

Garvinator
01-05-2011, 12:23 AM
Those stats are surprising that each of the top seeds are that far in front of their opponents.

Max Illingworth
01-05-2011, 06:27 PM
Head to head records are of limited predictive use but anyway, in normal length games it may look something like this (I'm ignoring blindfold) :

Topalov +7=7-1 Kamsky (Kamsky +1 in rapid)

Gelfand +5=6-1 Mamedyarov (Gelfand +1 in rapid, players tied +3=1-3 in blitz)

Aronian +6=10-2 Grischuk (tied +1=1-1 in rapid and +1=2-1 in blitz)

Kramnik +3=9-0 Radjabov (tied =2 rapid +1-1 blitz)

These figures are from the chesslive.de database - it may be missing some games.

The reason I predicted a Mamedyarov victory was because Mamedyarov is much younger than Gelfand, and will probably be more energetic. Then again, Gelfand has much more match experience than Mamedyarov, and that has the potential to be a deciding factor.

Vlad
01-05-2011, 07:41 PM
In my view the top 2 players are Aronian and Kramnik. It is a bit unfortunate that they play each other in the semifinals. It must be because FIDE is using laggish ratings and treats Topalov as the top seed.

I think it is also clear that even though Gelfand is probably the 4-th seed, which suggests that he should be the favorite against Mamedyarov, the reality is that the chances of Gelfand against the azeri GM are not that high.

Garvinator
01-05-2011, 07:59 PM
In my view the top 2 players are Aronian and Kramnik. It is a bit unfortunate that they play each other in the semifinals. It must be because FIDE is using laggish ratings and treats Topalov as the top seed.
I would suspect that Topalov is the number one seed because he lost the last World Championship match to Anand.

Kevin Bonham
01-05-2011, 08:21 PM
I would suspect that Topalov is the number one seed because he lost the last World Championship match to Anand.

Correct.

"a1 Matches System: The player who lost the World Championship Match 2010 (V. Anand or V. Topalov) is ranked No.1,
the rest are ranked in rating order using the FIDE Rating List of January 2010. The players are paired the following way: 1 vs 8
(match 1), 2 vs 7 (match 2), 3 vs 6 (match 3), 4 vs 5 (match 4)."

Kevin Bonham
01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Edited in the correct dates for actual play! (Why dates are announced including the date of "arrival" is beyond me.)

5-8 May Quarter finals
9 May QF tiebreaks (if required)
10-11 May rest days
12-15 May Semi-finals
16 May SF tiebreaks (if required)
17-18 May rest days
19-21 May final games 1-3
22 May rest day
23-25 May final games 4-6
26 May final tiebreak (if required)

I believe games start at a reasonably friendly 9 pm our time. Time control is the usual long one (40 in two hours, 20 in one, 15 mins + 30 secs/move to finish).

Max Illingworth
01-05-2011, 10:54 PM
Edited in the correct dates for actual play! (Why dates are announced including the date of "arrival" is beyond me.)

5-8 May Quarter finals
9 May QF tiebreaks (if required)
10-11 May rest days
12-15 May Semi-finals
16 May SF tiebreaks (if required)
17-18 May rest days
19-21 May final games 1-3
22 May rest day
23-25 May final games 4-6
26 May final tiebreak (if required)

I believe games start at a reasonably friendly 9 pm our time. Time control is the usual long one (40 in two hours, 20 in one, 15 mins + 30 secs/move to finish).

If a player wins the match with a game to spare, will the remaining game be played?

For the record, I'm hoping for an Aronian victory in this tournament.

Kevin Bonham
01-05-2011, 11:26 PM
If a player wins the match with a game to spare, will the remaining game be played?

I don't believe so.

Kevin Bonham
02-05-2011, 12:03 AM
Betting odds!

Unibet: (https://www.unibet.com/betting/grid/chess/world-championship/candidates/2000055248.odds)
Aronian 1.40 Grischuk 2.75
Gelfand 1.85 Mamedyarov same
Kramnik 1.30 Radjabov 3.20
Topalov 1.25 Kamsky 3.55

Efbet: (http://www.efbet.com/sportsbook?action=GoCatEv&category_name=Chess&date_range=today)
Aronian 1.33 Grischuk 3.00
Gelfand 1.85 Mamedyarov same
Kramnik 1.40 Radjabov 2.75
Topalov 1.33 Kamsky 3.00

Pinnacle (http://www.pinnaclesports.com/ContestCategory/Chess/World+Championship+Candidate+Matches/Who+Will+Advance~3F~/Lines.aspx)
Aronian 1.459 Grischuk 2.990
Gelfand 1.813 Mamedyarov 2.140
Kramnik 1.424 Radjabov 3.150
Topalov 1.362 Kamsky 3.500

Latter system seems to rake less than the former two, not sure what difference in systems explains that.

Garvinator
02-05-2011, 10:12 AM
Betfair

Aronian 1.35
Grischuk 2.82

Gelfand 1.89
Shak 1.84

Kramnik 1.33
Radjabov 3.15

Topalov 1.34
Kamsky 3.10

Garvinator
03-05-2011, 10:46 PM
Does anyone know the web address for this event, so we can view live game tomorrow night?

Kevin Bonham
03-05-2011, 10:58 PM
Night after tomorrow actually - first games are on the 5th (Thursday night).

http://kazan2011.fide.com/ is the official site and claims it will have live games.

Max Illingworth
03-05-2011, 11:06 PM
Have all the players arrived in Kazan?

The games should also be viewable on the Internet chess servers such as ICC and Playchess.

Kevin Bonham
03-05-2011, 11:11 PM
Current CC tipping:

Topalov 12 - Kamsky 2
Gelfand 8 - Shak 6
Aronian 14 - Grischuk 0
Kramnik 11 - Radjabov 3

Carl Gorka
04-05-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm going for match experience. Topalov's 'slump' last year I reckon can be attributed to his marriage....after 1 year of this, he should already be finding any excuse to get out of the house:lol:

Aronian for the whole thing for me:)

Garvinator
04-05-2011, 11:48 AM
Aronian for the whole thing for me:)There should also be a poll for who is going to win the candidate cycle.

Kevin Bonham
04-05-2011, 01:17 PM
There should also be a poll for who is going to win the candidate cycle.

You're welcome to start a new thread to run one.

ER
04-05-2011, 03:11 PM
the way the poll is constructed, Topalov gets lots of donkey votes!

ER
04-05-2011, 03:14 PM
the way the poll is constructed, Topalov gets lots of donkey votes!

OK I take that back, didn't look properly the first time!

ER
04-05-2011, 03:27 PM
So, it's almost like the old times, seven easterners vs one westerner only Kamsky ain't Fischer and not exactly a westerner either! :P

ER
04-05-2011, 03:54 PM
Current CC tipping:

Topalov 12 - Kamsky 2
Gelfand 8 - Shak 6
Aronian 14 - Grischuk 0
Kramnik 11 - Radjabov 3

Who's Shak?

Max Illingworth
04-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Who's Shak?

Shakhriyar Mamedyarov, currently no.9 in the world and Azerbaijan's top player. Incidentally, he is rated 39 points ahead of Gelfand on the latest FIDE ratings.

ER
04-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Shakhriyar Mamedyarov, currently no.9 in the world and Azerbaijan's top player. Incidentally, he is rated 39 points ahead of Gelfand on the latest FIDE ratings.

Oh ok thanks, I knew Mamedyarov (after all I have picked him to qualify) but never knew his first name let alone the cut short version! :)

Garvinator
05-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Aronian, Mamedyarov, Kamsky, and Radjabov start with white in Game 1.

Play starts tonight at 9pm. A topic for another new poll could be: Will the live coverage work at all, or a variation, will it work to a decent level for the entire first round :lol:

Jesper Norgaard
05-05-2011, 02:56 PM
So, it's almost like the old times, seven easterners vs one westerner only Kamsky ain't Fischer and not exactly a westerner either! :P
In fact Kamsky is the only Tatar of the candidates, and could well be considered the only true "home boy", since Kazan is the capital of Tatarstan, a republic in Russia which declared its sovereignty 30th August 1990.

That doesn't stop most of the US to cheer his participation as a true "American" whatever that is. Last time I checked I live on the American continent too, so shouldn't I be considered an American too? :hmm:
(Danish citizen resident in Mexico)

Kamsky is *my* dark horse in this field, I think he can beat Topalov for instance.

ER
05-05-2011, 05:17 PM
In fact Kamsky is the only Tatar of the candidates, and could well be considered the only true "home boy", since Kazan is the capital of Tatarstan, a republic in Russia which declared its sovereignty 30th August 1990.
Still an Easterner!


That doesn't stop most of the US to cheer his participation as a true "American" whatever that is.
Correct!


Last time I checked I live on the American continent too, so shouldn't I be considered an American too? :hmm:
(Danish citizen resident in Mexico)

Yes, as much as Bent Larsen was considered an Argentinian! :P Anyway, I will need my friend Henrik's opinion on this. As far as I know though Danish people aren't less nationalistic than any others! :)


Kamsky is *my* dark horse in this field, I think he can beat Topalov for instance.

I don't share your opinion. Vesko will beat him! Unfortunately and after Magnus chickened out, my real favourite player Alexander G. has never reached his true potential! Good luck to your favourites anyway!

Kevin Bonham
05-05-2011, 05:34 PM
Kamsky is *my* dark horse in this field, I think he can beat Topalov for instance.

Kamsky was reasonably competitive in their Challenge Match a couple of years back and probably would have squared it at 3.5-3.5 with one to go but for very poor time management.

Kevin Bonham
05-05-2011, 11:13 PM
Cushy start for Kramnik who draws without effort.

Radjabov,Teimour (2748) - Kramnik,Vladimir (2790) [D56]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1), 05.05.2011
[Robot 4]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.e3 Ne4 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.Rc1 c6 10.Be2 Nd7 11.0-0 Nxc3 12.Rxc3 dxc4 13.Rxc4 e5 14.Qc2 exd4 15.Nxd4 Nb6 16.Rc5 Rd8 17.Bf3 Be6 18.Rc1 Bd5 19.a3 Nd7 20.Rc3 Nf6 21.Bxd5 Rxd5 22.Rc4 Re8 23.h3 Ne4 24.b4 a5 25.Rb1 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
05-05-2011, 11:22 PM
I forgot to vote in the poll before it closed so as punishment I am deemed to be tipping the underdog on rating in all four matches. :lol:

soupman_2
05-05-2011, 11:27 PM
games: http://livechess.chessdom.com/site/

live video link: http://video.russiachess.org/view/265

Kevin Bonham
06-05-2011, 01:03 AM
Mamedyarov,Shakhriyar (2761) - Gelfand,Boris (2739) [B90]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1), 05.05.2011
[Robot 4]

Not sure quite what to make of this one; was that really all white could do from a pawn up?

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be7 8.Bc4 0-0 9.0-0 Nc6 10.Re1 b5 11.Bb3 Rb8 12.Bg5 Be6 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Nd5 Bg5 15.Qd3 Bh6 16.Red1 Kh8 17.Nc3 Qb6 18.Bxe6 fxe6 19.Qxd6 Nd4 20.Qxb6 Nxf3+ 21.gxf3 Rxb6 22.a4 Kg8 23.axb5 axb5 24.Ra5 b4 25.Rb5 Rfb8 26.Rxb6 Rxb6 27.Ne2 Rc6 28.c3 bxc3 29.Nxc3 Bg5 30.Kf1 Rb6 31.Rb1 Be7 32.Ke2 Rb8 33.Kd3 Bc5 34.Na4 Bxf2 35.b4 Ra8 36.Nc5 Kf7 37.Kc4 Ke7 38.Rd1 Bd4 39.Nb3 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
06-05-2011, 01:18 AM
This one was interesting. At one stage Topalov was looking a bit dangerous but then there was liquidation followed by the provocative 23.b4! and black gave up the exchange for a pawn rather than accept a weaker position. Maybe white could have made more of it than this.

Kamsky,Gata (2713) - Topalov,Veselin (2803) [B90]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1), 05.05.2011
[Robot 4]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.a4 Nc6 7.a5 e6 8.Nxc6 bxc6 9.Bd3 Be7 10.0-0 c5 11.Bf4 Qc7 12.Qe2 Bb7 13.e5 Qc6 14.f3 Nh5 15.Bd2 c4 16.Bxc4 dxe5 17.b3 Rd8 18.Rad1 Qc5+ 19.Kh1 Nf4 20.Na4 Nxe2 21.Nxc5 Bxc5 22.Bxe2 Ke7 23.b4 Rxd2 24.Rxd2 Bxb4 25.Rd3 Bd5 26.Rb1 Bxa5 27.Ra3 Bd2 28.Rxa6 Rc8 29.Ra7+ Kf6 30.Bd3 Be3 31.Ra4 h5 32.Rab4 Rc3 33.h4 g6 34.Kh2 Kg7 35.Ra4 f5 36.Re1 Bc5 37.Re2 Kf6 38.Re1 Bf2 39.Re2 Bc5 40.Re1 Bf2 41.Re2 Bc5 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
06-05-2011, 10:34 AM
I thought Grischuk had very little chance of saving this but somehow Aronian managed to get very short of time and then blunder into a drawn pawn ending (69.Ne5 still appears to win)

Aronian,Levon (2783) - Grischuk,Alexander (2760) [D87]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1), 05.05.2011
[Robot 4]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 0-0 10.0-0 b6 11.dxc5 Qc7 12.Nd4 Ne5 13.Nb5 Qb8 14.Be2 bxc5 15.f4 Ng4 16.Bxc5 a6 17.Na3 Qc7 18.Bd4 e5 19.fxe5 Nxe5 20.Qc1 Bg4 21.Bxg4 Nxg4 22.Qf4 Qxf4 23.Rxf4 Ne5 24.Rb1 Rad8 25.Nc2 Nd3 26.Rff1 Rd7 27.Rfd1 Nf4 28.Kf2 Rc8 29.Ne3 h5 30.Rb6 Ne6 31.Bxg7 Rxd1 32.Nxd1 Kxg7 33.Ke3 Nc5 34.Rd6 a5 35.c4 a4 36.Kd4 Ne6+ 37.Kc3 Rb8 38.Rd5 Nf4 39.Rd2 Ne6 40.Rb2 Rd8 41.Nf2 a3 42.Rd2 Rb8 43.Nd3 Rb1 44.c5 Kf6 45.c6 Ke7 46.Nb4 Rc1+ 47.Kb3 Nc5+ 48.Kxa3 Nxe4 49.Rd4 Nd6 50.Ka4 Ke6 51.Ka5 Rc5+ 52.Ka6 g5 53.a4 Ke5 54.Rd2 Rc4 55.Ka5 f5 56.Rc2 Kd4 57.Rd2+ Ke5 58.Nd3+ Kf6 59.Kb6 Nc8+ 60.Kb7 Nd6+ 61.Kc7 Ne4 62.Ra2 Nc3 63.Rb2 Nxa4 64.Rb4 Rxb4 65.Nxb4 Nc5 66.Kb6 Ne6 67.Nd3 h4 68.h3 Ke7 69.Nc5 Nxc5 70.Kxc5 Kd8 ˝-˝

Garvinator
06-05-2011, 08:08 PM
1 hour till Game 2.

All first games drawn.

Kevin Bonham
06-05-2011, 08:42 PM
It was funny; JaK asked me last night whether Grischuk had any chance of saving and I initially said "i wouldn't expect so" then just to cover myself after that somewhat flippant response said "i'd say black has very little chance of holding this. not none but it looks extremely bad".

I felt a bit gutless not declaring Grischuk to have no chance at all but it turned out that he did somehow save it. He was very dogged in his high-quality defence of a clearly lost position but it was still strange that Aronian stuffed it up at the end the way he did.

A possible factor is that Aronian may not be feeling 100%. It was noted in the broadcasts that he had a bit of a cough.

Not sure how much energy those two will have tonight!

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2011, 12:10 AM
Grischuk and Aronian played glacially slowly and eventually agreed the inevitable draw after yesterday's drama.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 e6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Qc2 c5 7.Bg5 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 9.Rd1 0-0 10.e3 Be6 11.Be2 Rc8 12.Nf5 h6 13.Bh4 Re8 14.Nxe7+ Qxe7 15.0-0 g5 16.Bg3 Ne4 17.Qb1 Nxg3 18.hxg3 Red8 19.Nb5 d4 20.Nxd4 Nxd4 21.exd4 Qf6 22.Bf3 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2011, 12:52 AM
Topalov plays a fairly radical English line with early queen side castling (the line has been played before but apparently 9.0-0-0 is new and probably won't be seen again in a hurry). Kamsky doesn't back down from a fight and Topalov never really had anything except for a promising lead on the clock. His queen spent from move 8 onwards passively spectating from a3 until the black one came over to keep it company. :lol:

Top game Kamsky - not sure how much of Topa's problem was bad preparation and how much was mistakes but it looks like a fair slice of both.

Topalov,Veselin - Kamsky,Gata [D90]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.2), 06.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Qb3 Nb6 6.d4 Bg7 7.Bf4 Be6 8.Qa3 Nc6 9.0-0-0 Nd5 10.Bg3 Bh6+ 11.e3 a5 12.h4 Ncb4 13.h5 c6 14.hxg6 hxg6 15.Rd2 f6 16.Ne4 b6 17.Be2 Qc8 18.Rh4 Kf7 19.Rd1 g5 20.Rh2 g4 21.Nfd2 c5 22.dxc5 f5 23.Rxh6 Rxh6 24.Ng5+ Kf8 25.Nxe6+ Qxe6 26.Bc4 Rc8 27.Bf4 Rf6 28.e4 Rxc5 29.exd5 Qxd5 30.b3 Qd4 31.Be3 Qc3+ 0-1

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2011, 01:02 AM
Gelfand was better and briefly picked up a pawn but wasn't able to hang onto it.

Gelfand,Boris - Mamedyarov,Shakhriyar [D46]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.2), 06.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Nf3 Nbd7 6.Qc2 Bd6 7.Bd3 0-0 8.0-0 dxc4 9.Bxc4 a6 10.Rd1 b5 11.Bd3 Qc7 12.Bd2 c5 13.Ne4 c4 14.Nxd6 Qxd6 15.Be2 Bb7 16.b3 Rfc8 17.Qb2 Rab8 18.Rdc1 Ne4 19.Ba5 Bd5 20.Ne1 f5 21.f3 Nef6 22.Rab1 g5 23.Qd2 Kf7 24.Bb4 Qb6 25.Ba5 Qd6 26.bxc4 bxc4 27.Rxb8 Qxb8 28.Qb4 Qa8 29.Bxc4 Qc6 30.Nd3 Bxc4 31.Nb2 Qd5 32.Nxc4 Kg8 33.Rc3 f4 34.exf4 Qxd4+ 35.Ne3 Qxc3 36.Qxc3 Rxc3 37.Bxc3 gxf4 38.Nc4 Nd5 39.Bd4 Nb4 40.a3 Nc6 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2011, 11:01 AM
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7199

GM Caruana notes on Aronian-Grischuk from round 1. Really was an epic fail to convert by the top seed.

Kramnik - Radjabov. The most exciting thing that happened in this game was a move relay error.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Be7 4.g3 Nf6 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 dxc4 7.Qa4 a6 8.Qxc4 b5 9.Qc2 Bb7 10.Bd2 Be4 11.Qc1 Bb7 12.Qc2 Be4 13.Qc1 Bb7 14.Bf4 Nd5 15.Rd1 Nxf4 16.Qxf4 Bd6 17.Qh4 Qxh4 18.Nxh4 Bxg2 19.Kxg2 Nd7 20.Nc3 Rfd8 21.Rac1 Be7 22.Nf3 c5 23.a4 bxa4 24.Nxa4 cxd4 25.Rxd4 Bf6 26.Rd6 Ne5 27.Rxd8+ Rxd8 28.Nxe5 Bxe5 29.f4 Bf6 30.Rc6 Rb8 31.Rxa6 g6 32.Nc5 Rxb2 33.Kf3 Bd4 34.Nd3 Rb8 35.Rd6 Bf6 36.g4 Rd8 37.Rc6 Be7 38.g5 h6 39.h4 hxg5 40.hxg5 Rd7 41.Ne5 Rb7 42.Rc8+ Kg7 43.Re8 Rc7 44.Ng4 Rb7 45.e3 Rc7 46.Ke4 Rd7 47.Nh6 Bf8 48.Rc8 Rb7 49.Kf3 Ra7 50.e4 Ra3+ 51.Kg4 Ra7 52.Kh4 Bb4 53.Kg4 Bf8 54.Rb8 Rd7 55.Kf3 Ra7 56.e5 Ra3+ 57.Kg2 Ra2+ 58.Kg3 Ra3+ 59.Kg4 Ra7 60.Rc8 Rb7 61.Ra8 Rc7 1/2-1/2.

HydeParkPrince
07-05-2011, 02:42 PM
Lol, I'm actually shattered that Radjabov didn't choose a KID. i got a feeling he's gonna draw the classical games and unleash the KID novelty in the rapid .Expect 2 more boring draws...

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2011, 11:08 PM
Well here's the first one:

Radjabov - Kramnik:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.e3 Ne4 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.Rc1 c6 10.Bd3 Nxc3 11.Rxc3 dxc4 12.Bxc4 Nd7 13.Qc2 b6 14.Bd3 Nf6 15.Rxc6 Nd5 16.Qb3 Nb4 17.Rc1 Nxd3+ 18.Qxd3 Bb7 19.0-0 Bxf3 20.gxf3 Qg5+ 21.Kh1 Qd5 22.Qe4 Qxa2 23.Rg1 Rfc8 24.Qb7 Rf8 25.Rc7 Qxb2 26.Rxf7 Rxf7 27.Qxa8+ Kh7 28.Qe8 Rc7 29.Qxe6 Qxf2 30.Qe4+ Kg8 31.Qe8+ Kh7 32.Qe4+ Kg8 33.Qe8+ ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
08-05-2011, 12:28 AM
Kamsky - Topalov. Topalov must win with white tomorrow night to get a playoff.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.a4 e5 7.Nf3 Be7 8.Bg5 Be6 9.Bxf6 Bxf6 10.Nd5 Nd7 11.Bc4 Rc8 12.b3 Qa5+ 13.Qd2 Qxd2+ 14.Nxd2 Bg5 15.Kd1 h5 16.Re1 h4 17.h3 Nf6 18.Nxf6+ gxf6 19.Bxe6 fxe6 20.Nf3 Rg8 21.c4 f5 22.exf5 exf5 23.Ke2 Be7 24.Kf1 Kf7 25.Rad1 Rc5 26.b4 Rxc4 27.Rxe5 dxe5 28.Nxe5+ Ke6 29.Nxc4 Bxb4 30.Rb1 a5 31.Rd1 Rc8 32.Rd4 Bc3 33.Rxh4 Bf6 34.Rf4 Bg5 35.Rd4 [Kamsky decided not to risk 35.Rxf5 which appears to be drawn with best play after 35...Kxf5 36.Nd6+ Ke6 37.Nxc8 b5!] 35...Bf6 36.Rf4 Bg5 37.Rd4 Bf6 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
08-05-2011, 01:09 AM
An awesome win by Gelfand with black and he has draw odds with white tomorrow to advance. Mamedyarov tried to line-clear for an attack with 18.e5 giving up a pawn but black was more than equal to his defensive task. If you haven't seen it play through the game below to see what ended up happening.

White may have lost on time, he had only nine seconds to make move 40.

Mamedyarov,Shakhriyar - Gelfand,Boris [B87]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.3), 07.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bb3 b5 8.0-0 Be7 9.Qf3 Qc7 10.Qg3 0-0 11.Bh6 Ne8 12.Rad1 Bd7 13.f4 Nc6 14.f5 Nxd4 15.Rxd4 Kh8 16.Be3 Nf6 17.Qh3 d5 18.e5 Qxe5 19.Rh4 Rfc8 20.Kh1 Rxc3 21.bxc3 Qxc3 22.Rd4 a5 23.Rd3 Qc6 24.c3 a4 25.Bc2 e5 26.Bg5 b4 27.Qh4 bxc3 28.Rh3 Kg8 29.Re1 e4 30.g4 Kf8 31.Be3 Qc4 32.g5 Bxf5 33.gxf6 Bxf6 34.Qh5 Bg6 35.Qg4 Qxa2 36.Bb1 Qc4 37.Qg2 a3 38.Ba2 Qc6 39.Rg3 Rb8 0-1

Desmond
08-05-2011, 06:43 AM
Topalov plays a fairly radical English line with early queen side castling (the line has been played before but apparently 9.0-0-0 is new and probably won't be seen again in a hurry). Kamsky doesn't back down from a fight and Topalov never really had anything except for a promising lead on the clock. His queen spent from move 8 onwards passively spectating from a3 until the black one came over to keep it company. :lol:

Top game Kamsky - not sure how much of Topa's problem was bad preparation and how much was mistakes but it looks like a fair slice of both.

Topalov,Veselin - Kamsky,Gata [D90]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.2), 06.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Qb3 Nb6 6.d4 Bg7 7.Bf4 Be6 8.Qa3 Nc6 9.0-0-0 Nd5 10.Bg3 Bh6+ 11.e3 a5 12.h4 Ncb4 13.h5 c6 14.hxg6 hxg6 15.Rd2 f6 16.Ne4 b6 17.Be2 Qc8 18.Rh4 Kf7 19.Rd1 g5 20.Rh2 g4 21.Nfd2 c5 22.dxc5 f5 23.Rxh6 Rxh6 24.Ng5+ Kf8 25.Nxe6+ Qxe6 26.Bc4 Rc8 27.Bf4 Rf6 28.e4 Rxc5 29.exd5 Qxd5 30.b3 Qd4 31.Be3 Qc3+ 0-1
Annotated by Caruana here (http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7201)


Kamsky - Topalov. Topalov must win with white tomorrow night to get a playoff.

I didn't realise they were only 4-game matches, excluding the silly stuff. Lame.

Kevin Bonham
08-05-2011, 07:51 AM
I didn't realise they were only 4-game matches, excluding the silly stuff. Lame.

And carrying a great risk that the person who faces Anand will not be enough of a danger to him for the contest to be marketable. If that happens FIDE have only themselves to blame both for the shortness of the matches and the very arbitrary nature of some of the selected contestants.

Kevin Bonham
08-05-2011, 08:04 AM
Aronian - Grischuk

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 0-0 7.e4 a6 8.Be2 b5 9.Qb3 c5 10.dxc5 Be6 11.Qc2 Nbd7 12.Be3 Rc8 13.Rd1 b4 14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.exd5 Nxc5 16.0-0 a5 17.Bc4 Qd6 18.Bd4 Ncd7 19.Qe2 Ng4 20.Rfe1 Rfe8 21.Ba6 Ra8 22.Bb5 Bxd4 23.Rxd4 Ngf6 24.h3 Rab8 25.Ba4 Red8 26.Qxe7 Nb6 27.Bd1 Rbc8 28.Qa7 Ra8 29.Qb7 Rdc8 30.Qe7 Qxe7 31.Rxe7 Nfxd5 32.Rb7 Rc7 33.Rxc7 Nxc7 34.Bb3 a4 35.Bc2 Ncd5 36.Be4 Ra5 37.Ne5 Rc5 38.Bxd5 Rxd5 39.Rxb4 Rxe5 40.Rxb6 Re1+ 41.Kh2 Re2 42.Kg3 a3 43.bxa3 Rxa2 44.Rb3 Kg7 45.f4 h5 46.h4 f6 47.Kf3 g5 48.hxg5 fxg5 49.g3 Kf6 50.Ke4 gxf4 51.Kxf4 Ra1 52.Ke4 Ke6 53.Re3 Ra2 54.Kd4+ Kd6 55.Kc4 Rh2 56.Kb5 Kc7 57.Re7+ Kb8 58.Rh7 Rg2 59.Kb6 Rb2+ draw

Tony Dowden
08-05-2011, 07:37 PM
After three games it seems conceivable that we could get Kamsky, Radjabov, Gelfand & Grischuk qualifying for the next stage :rolleyes: in which case I think I'm with Magnus on avoiding 4-game shoot-outs.

I'm hoping we get to see an Aronian vs Kramnik match though.

Oepty
08-05-2011, 10:17 PM
After three games it seems conceivable that we could get Kamsky, Radjabov, Gelfand & Grischuk qualifying for the next stage :rolleyes: in which case I think I'm with Magnus on avoiding 4-game shoot-outs.

I'm hoping we get to see an Aronian vs Kramnik match though.

6 game matches should be the absolute shortest for matches of this importance. Perhaps 6 games for Candidates quarter finals, 12 games for semi-finals, 18 for final and 24 for the World Championship Match. 4 game matches are a joke, over before they have started.
Scott

Kevin Bonham
08-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Grischuk - Aronian quick draw and off to playoffs tomorrow:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 c6 6.e3 Bf5 7.Nge2 Nd7 8.Ng3 Bg6 9.Be2 Nb6 10.Rc1 Nf6 11.h4 h6 12.h5 Bh7 13.Bd3 Bxd3 14.Qxd3 0-0 15.Nf5 Re8 16.f3 Bf8 17.Kf2 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
09-05-2011, 12:13 AM
Gelfand through. He got a massive position against Mamedyarov who took a draw presumably to save ratings points since had the game continued black would very likely have lost.

Gelfand,Boris - Mamedyarov,Shakhriyar [A43]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.4), 08.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.e4 d6 5.Bb5+ Nbd7 6.a4 Bg7 7.Nf3 a6 8.Bc4 h6 9.0-0 g5 10.Be2 Qc7 11.a5 Nf8 12.Nd2 Ng6 13.Nc4 Bd7 14.Nb6 Rd8 15.Be3 e5 16.Nxd7 Qxd7 17.f3 Ke7 18.Na4 h5 19.Nb6 Qc7 20.Bxg5 Bh6 21.Bxf6+ Kxf6 22.g3 Rdg8 23.Kh1 Ke7 24.Ra3 Rg7 ˝-˝

Kramnik and Radjabov to a tiebreak match tomorrow after being by far the most boring of the four first-round parings. Tomorrow they will have to fight at some stage.

Kramnik,Vladimir - Radjabov,Teimour [D37]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.4), 08.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.a3 c5 8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Nxd5 exd5 10.dxc5 Nxc5 11.Be5 Bf6 12.Be2 Bxe5 13.Nxe5 Be6 14.Nf3 Qb6 15.Qd4 Rfc8 16.0-0 Nb3 17.Qxb6 axb6 18.Rab1 Bf5 19.Rbd1 Rc2 20.Rxd5 Rxb2 21.Re1 Be6 22.Rb5 Rxa3 23.Rxb6 Raa2 24.Rxb7 g5 25.Bf1 h6 26.Nd4 Nxd4 27.Rxb2 Rxb2 28.exd4 ˝-˝

Garvinator
09-05-2011, 12:59 AM
Looks like we will have three rapid playoff matches tomorrow.

From seeing Kramnik/Radjabov's games, I think they should have just saved themselves some time and turned up tomorrow, instead of playing four games for show :lol:

Garvinator
09-05-2011, 02:09 AM
I might have typed too soon.

Kevin Bonham
09-05-2011, 02:52 AM
Topalov eliminated! Defending a bad position for a long time Kamsky got very short of time and missed a critical "only move" just before the time control but Topalov returned the favour with a careless king placement just four moves after move 40. The US Champion and the World Cup winner will play off in the match of the underdogs in the semi-final.

Topalov,Veselin - Kamsky,Gata [A16]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.4), 08.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Qc2 Bg7 6.e4 Nb6 7.d4 0-0 8.Be3 Bg4 9.Ne5 Bxe5 10.dxe5 Nc6 11.h3 Be6 12.Rd1 Qc8 13.f4 Rd8 14.b3 Nb4 15.Rxd8+ Qxd8 16.Qb1 f5 17.exf6 exf6 18.Be2 Qe7 19.0-0 Bf7 20.Bf2 Rd8 21.Rd1 Rxd1+ 22.Qxd1 c5 23.Bf1 Nc6 24.g3 Kg7 25.Bg2 h5 26.Nb5 Nc8 27.Qd2 c4 28.bxc4 Bxc4 29.Nd4 Qb4 30.Qc1 N8e7 31.a3 Qa4 32.Qb2 b6 33.Kh2 Kf7 34.Qc3 Ba2 35.f5 Qc4 36.Qb2 Ne5 37.Qd2 g5 38.Ne6 N7c6?? [38...Bb3 should be the only save here, allowing the Q to move to d3 without the bishop dropping. But this is not obvious in serious time trouble or indeed perhaps at all.] 39.Qd6 Ke8 40.Nc7+ Kf7 41.Nd5 Qe2 42.Qxf6+ Ke8 43.Qe6+ Kf8 44.Kg1?? [44.Qh6+ Kf7 45.Bg1 Bxd5 46.exd5 Nd8 47.Kh1 etc is fine. Compare game.] 44...Qd1+ 45.Bf1 Bxd5 46.exd5 Nd4 47.Qf6+ Kg8 48.Qxg5+ [48.Bxd4 Qxd4+ 49.Kh1 Qxd5+ 50.Bg2 etc to keep some sort of chances but the clear win is long gone.] 48...Kf7 49.Qd8 Qc2 50.Bg2 Qc1+ 51.Kh2 Qc2 52.Bg1 Ndf3+ 53.Kh1 Ne1 54.Bf2! A sad necessity 54...Qxf2 55.Qc7+ Kf6 56.Qd6+ Kf7 57.Qc7+ Kf6 58.Qd6+ Kf7 ˝-˝

ER
09-05-2011, 10:47 AM
I spewed for Topalov's elimination, however I have to congratulate Lost who predicted that Gata would hold in that almost hopeless position and in horrible time trouble! Good luck in the semis!

Vlad
09-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Well, Kamsky is the only tatar playing in the qualification. If you want the home state sort of represented...

ER
09-05-2011, 05:00 PM
LOl true but then he will have to stop displaying the US flag! :)
BTW is Anton going to be displaying the Russian (like dad) or the Australian flag in his future career?

Garvinator
09-05-2011, 05:37 PM
So, 20 votes were recorded for voting on the results.

After only two matches completed, the remaining contestants to win are Shirty and TheRealDeal.

Almost everyone has fallen over due to Topalov.

Max Illingworth
09-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Kramnik-Radjabov ended in a draw.

Aronian-Grischuk ended in a win for Black.

The second rapid game starts in the next few minutes.

Kevin Bonham
09-05-2011, 10:36 PM
Aronian - Grischuk game 1. Very strong play by black.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.0-0 Nge7 7.Ne1 d6 8.Nc2 Be6 9.Ne3 0-0 10.d3 Qd7 11.Ned5 Bh3 12.Rb1 Bxg2 13.Kxg2 Rac8 14.e4 Nxd5 15.Nxd5 Ne7 16.Nc3 Nc6 17.Be3 f5 18.f3 f4 19.Bg1 h5 20.Nd5 Rf7 21.g4 hxg4 22.fxg4 Rcf8 23.Qf3 Bf6 24.Bf2 Rh7 25.Nxf6+ Rxf6 26.Rh1 g5 27.h3 b6 28.Rh2 Nd8 29.b3 Ne6 30.Kf1 b5 31.Kg2 a5 32.Rhh1 Rf8 33.Rhc1 Rb8 34.Rh1 b4 35.Rh2 a4 36.Kh1 Ra8 37.Bg1 axb3 38.Rxb3 Ra4 39.Rbb2 Ra3 40.Rbg2 Qa4 41.h4 Rc3 42.Qf1 Qa3 43.hxg5 Rc1 44.Qf2 Rxh2+ 45.Kxh2 Nxg5 46.Kh1 Qxd3 47.Qh4 Qh3+ 0-1

Kramnik - Radjabov game 1. Good hold by black from an inferior position - but I wonder if Kramnik is quite his peak self, at his best I think he would have won this.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.Rc1 0-0 8.e3 c6 9.Bd3 Nd7 10.0-0 dxc4 11.Bxc4 e5 12.d5 Nb6 13.b3 Bf5 14.dxc6 bxc6 15.e4 Bg4 16.Be2 Bxf3 17.Bxf3 Be7 18.Qc2 Bb4 19.Bg4 Ba3 20.Rcd1 Qe7 21.Nb1 Bc5 22.Nd2 Bb4 23.Nf3 Qf6 24.Rd3 Rfd8 25.Rfd1 Rxd3 26.Qxd3 g6 27.h4 h5 28.Bh3 Re8 29.g3 Qe7 30.Kg2 Qc5 31.Ng5 Kg7 32.Qe2 Qe7 33.Qc2 Qc7 34.Qc1 Be7 35.a4 Rd8 36.Rxd8 Bxd8 37.Nf3 f6 38.g4 hxg4 39.Bxg4 Nd7 40.h5 Nf8 41.Qc4 gxh5 42.Bxh5 Qd7 43.Kg3 Bb6 44.Nh4 Kh8 45.Qf7 Qxf7 46.Bxf7 Kg7 47.Bc4 Bc5 48.f3 Ng6 49.Nf5+ Kf8 50.Kg4 Ne7 51.Ng3 Kg7 52.Be6 Bb4 53.Nh5+ Kg6 54.f4 exf4 55.Nxf4+ Kg7 56.Bc4 Bd6 57.Ne6+ Kg6 58.a5 Bb4 59.a6 Bd6 60.Nd4 Be5 61.Nf3 Bd6 62.Be6 Kh6 63.Bd7 Kg7 64.Nd4 Be5 65.Ne6+ Kh6 66.Nd8 Bc7 67.Ne6 Bd6 68.Nd4 Be5 69.Nf3 Bd6 70.Nd2 Kg7 71.Nc4 Bc5 72.Kf4 Bb4 73.Ke3 Bc5+ 74.Kd3 Ng6 75.Bxc6 Ne5+ 76.Nxe5 fxe5 77.Kc4 ˝-˝

Adamski
09-05-2011, 11:25 PM
An awesome win by Gelfand with black and he has draw odds with white tomorrow to advance. Mamedyarov tried to line-clear for an attack with 18.e5 giving up a pawn but black was more than equal to his defensive task. If you haven't seen it play through the game below to see what ended up happening.

White may have lost on time, he had only nine seconds to make move 40.

Mamedyarov,Shakhriyar - Gelfand,Boris [B87]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (1.3), 07.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bb3 b5 8.0-0 Be7 9.Qf3 Qc7 10.Qg3 0-0 11.Bh6 Ne8 12.Rad1 Bd7 13.f4 Nc6 14.f5 Nxd4 15.Rxd4 Kh8 16.Be3 Nf6 17.Qh3 d5 18.e5 Qxe5 19.Rh4 Rfc8 20.Kh1 Rxc3 21.bxc3 Qxc3 22.Rd4 a5 23.Rd3 Qc6 24.c3 a4 25.Bc2 e5 26.Bg5 b4 27.Qh4 bxc3 28.Rh3 Kg8 29.Re1 e4 30.g4 Kf8 31.Be3 Qc4 32.g5 Bxf5 33.gxf6 Bxf6 34.Qh5 Bg6 35.Qg4 Qxa2 36.Bb1 Qc4 37.Qg2 a3 38.Ba2 Qc6 39.Rg3 Rb8 0-1
Nice win by Boris. White's attack looked strong but that was really a superficial assessment IMO.

Max Illingworth
09-05-2011, 11:35 PM
Radjabov-Kramnik was a fairly uninteresting draw.

Grischuk-Aronian saw Aronian level the scores with some good technique from a better endgame.

Kevin Bonham
09-05-2011, 11:52 PM
Grischuk - Aronian. White almost managed to save this but not quite.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 c6 6.Qc2 Nf6 7.e3 Nh5 8.Be5 Nd7 9.Be2 Nxe5 10.dxe5 g6 11.Bxh5 gxh5 12.0-0-0 f6 13.Nf3 fxe5 14.Nxe5 0-0 15.f4 Bd6 16.Nf3 Bf5 17.Qd2 Qf6 18.e4 dxe4 19.Qxd6 exf3 20.Qxf6 Rxf6 21.gxf3 Bg6 22.Ne2 Re8 23.Rd2 Re3 24.Rf1 Bd3 25.Rf2 Kf7 26.b3 h4 27.Kb2 Bxe2 28.Rdxe2 Rxe2+ 29.Rxe2 Rxf4 30.Rf2 Rd4 31.Kc3 Rd1 32.f4 Kf6 33.Rg2 h5 34.a4 Rf1 35.Rg5 Rf3+ 36.Kc2 Rxf4 37.Rxh5 Rf2+ 38.Kc3 Rxh2 39.Rh7 Kg6 40.Rxb7 h3 41.Rb8 Rf2 42.Rh8 h2 43.Kd3 Kg5 44.Ke3 Rb2 45.Kf3 Rxb3+ 46.Kg2 Rb2+ 47.Kh1 Kf5 48.Rc8 Rc2 49.Ra8 Ke4 50.Rxa7 Ra2 51.a5 Kd4 52.a6 Kc5 53.Ra8 Kc4 54.Ra7 c5 55.Ra8 Kb5 56.Rb8+ Kc6 57.Rc8+ Kb6 58.Rb8+ Kc7 59.Rb7+ Kc6 60.Ra7 c4 61.Ra8 Kc7 62.a7 c3 63.Re8 Rxa7 64.Kxh2 Kb6 65.Kg3 Kc5 66.Kf2 Kc4 67.Ke2 Kb3 68.Rc8 Kb2 69.Rb8+ Kc1 70.Kd3 c2 71.Rh8 Ra3+ 72.Kc4 Kb1 0-1

Radjabov - Kramnik. Someone glue their d-pawns to the board.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.c5 Nh5 8.Bd3 Nxf4 9.exf4 b6 10.b4 a5 11.a3 c6 12.0-0 Qc7 13.g3 Ba6 14.Bxa6 Rxa6 15.Qe2 Rfa8 16.Rab1 axb4 17.axb4 Bf6 18.Rfc1 Ra3 19.Qe1 bxc5 20.bxc5 Qa5 21.Ne5 Nxe5 22.fxe5 Bg5 23.Rc2 Bd8 24.Kg2 h6 25.h4 Qa6 26.Qd1 Ra1 27.Rcb2 Rxb1 28.Qxb1 Qc4 29.Ne2 Be7 30.Kf1 Bf8 31.Rb4 Ra1 32.Qxa1 Qxb4 33.Qa6 Qb1+ 34.Kg2 Qe4+ 35.Kf1 Qh1+ 36.Ng1 Qe4 37.Ne2 Qh1+ 38.Ng1 Qe4 39.Ne2 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 12:27 AM
Drawnik - Radrawbov game 3

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.Rc1 Ne4 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.g3 Nxc3 10.Rxc3 c6 11.Bg2 Nd7 12.0-0 dxc4 13.Rxc4 e5 14.Rc3 exd4 15.Nxd4 Nb6 16.Qc2 Rd8 17.e3 Be6 18.a3 Bd5 19.b4 Bxg2 20.Kxg2 Nd5 21.Rc5 a6 22.Rc1 g6 23.Nf3 Re8 24.Rc4 Rad8 25.Rd4 Nc7 ˝-˝

Garvinator
10-05-2011, 12:43 AM
Kramnik/Radjabov are starting to really show the bad aspects of match play.

Bill Gletsos
10-05-2011, 12:47 AM
Kramnik/Radjabov are starting to really show the bad aspects of match play.Actually I think it is more the bad aspects of 4 game matches.

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 01:02 AM
Actually I think it is more the bad aspects of 4 game matches.

Indeed. The costs of losing are too high so the players seek to minimise risk and go for the tiebreaks. In a longer match risks that looked more likely than not to pay off would be taken even at risk of going a game down. We have seen exciting play in recent WC matches over 10-14 games.

Aronian - Grischuk. Aronian had a huge position but could not convert and ended up grovelling a draw.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.e3 Nf6 5.a3 Be7 6.d4 exd4 7.exd4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 0-0 9.Nc2 d6 10.Be2 Be6 11.Ne3 Rc8 12.0-0 a6 13.b3 Na5 14.a4 Qb6 15.Rb1 Nc6 16.Re1 Rfd8 17.Bf3 Ne5 18.Bd5 Bf8 19.Bb2 Re8 20.Ba1 Rb8 21.Ne4 Nxd5 22.Nxd5 Qd8 23.Rb2 Bxd5 24.Qxd5 b5 25.Rbe2 bxc4 26.bxc4 Ng6 27.g3 Ne7 28.Qd3 Qd7 29.Nxd6 Red8 30.c5 Nc8 31.Be5 Nxd6 32.cxd6 Qxa4 33.Bf4 h6 34.h4 Qb5 35.Qd1 Rb7 36.Rc2 Rbd7 37.Rc7 Bxd6 38.Rxd7 Qxd7 39.Qxd6 Qxd6 40.Bxd6 Rxd6 41.Re8+ Kh7 42.Re7 Kg6 43.Ra7 h5 44.Kg2 Kf6 45.f3 Rd2+ 46.Kh3 Ra2 47.g4 hxg4+ 48.Kxg4 g6 49.f4 Ra5 50.Ra8 Ke6 51.Ra7 Kf6 52.Ra8 Ra1 53.Ra7 a5 54.Ra6+ Kg7 55.h5 f5+ 56.Kh4 Rh1+ 57.Kg3 Rg1+ 58.Kh2 Rg4 59.hxg6 Rxf4 60.Rxa5 Kxg6 61.Kg2 Kf7 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 01:32 AM
Radjabov - Kramnik rapid 4 (I blinked and missed it)

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.c5 Nh5 8.Bd3 Nxf4 9.exf4 b6 10.b4 a5 11.a3 c6 12.0-0 Qc7 13.g3 Ba6 14.Kg2 Bf6 15.Bxa6 Rxa6 16.Qc2 Rfa8 17.Rab1 axb4 18.axb4 Ra3 19.Rb3 Rxb3 20.Qxb3 Qb7 21.Rb1 h6 22.h4 h5 23.Ne5 ˝-˝

Radjabov - Kramnik blitz 1

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.Nbd2 a6 8.Ba4 Ba7 9.h3 Ne7 10.Re1 Ng6 11.Nf1 c6 12.Ng3 d5 13.exd5 Nxd5 14.Bb3 Re8 15.Bg5 f6 16.Be3 Bxe3 17.fxe3 Be6 18.Qd2 Qc7 19.Rad1 Rad8 20.Qf2 Qf7 21.Rf1 Qf8 22.Nd2 Kh8 23.Nde4 Nge7 24.Qe2 Bg8 25.Rf2 f5 26.Rdf1 f4 27.exf4 Nxf4 28.Qg4 Bxb3 29.axb3 Neg6 30.d4 Qg8 31.Rf3 Ne6 32.Nf5 exd4 33.Qg3 Rf8 34.Ned6 dxc3 35.bxc3 Rd7 36.h4 Rf6 37.h5 Ne7 38.Nh6 gxh6 39.Qe5 Nd5 40.Rxf6 Nxf6 41.Qxf6+ Rg7 42.Nf5 Qf8 43.Nxg7 Qc5+ 44.Kh1 Nxg7 45.Qf8+ 1-0

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 02:14 AM
Kramnik - Radjabov blitz 2. This game was dramatically disrupted around move 60 when the clock stopped working. After quite a lengthy delay play resumed with no time added on the clocks (IMO, time should have been added to both) but Radjabov blundered with 67...Rd6?? and after 68.Rb7 he was zugzwanged.

Kramnik,Vladimir (2788) - Radjabov,Teimour (2744) [A14]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011, Tiebreak Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (5.6), 09.05.2011
[Robot 4]

1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.b3 Nf6 4.Bb2 Be7 5.g3 0-0 6.Bg2 b6 7.0-0 Bb7 8.e3 c5 9.Nc3 Nc6 10.cxd5 Nxd5 11.Nxd5 Qxd5 12.d4 Qd8 13.Ne5 Nxe5 14.Bxb7 Rb8 15.Bg2 cxd4 16.exd4 Nd7 17.d5 exd5 18.Qxd5 Bf6 19.Rad1 Bxb2 20.Qxd7 a5 21.Rfe1 Qxd7 22.Rxd7 Ba3 23.Bd5 Bc5 24.Re4 Rfd8 25.Bxf7+ Kf8 26.Be6 Rxd7 27.Bxd7 Rd8 28.Bb5 Rd2 29.Rf4+ Ke7 30.a4 Rd4 31.Rf3 Rd6 32.Rf4 Rf6 33.Re4+ Re6 34.Rg4 g6 35.Kg2 h5 36.Rc4 Kf6 37.Rf4+ Kg7 38.Rc4 Kf6 39.h4 Re5 40.Rc3 Rd5 41.Rc2 Re5 42.Rd2 Kg7 43.Bc4 Kf6 44.Rd8 Kg7 45.Bd3 Re6 46.Bc4 Rd6 47.Rg8+ Kh7 48.Re8 Rd2 49.Be2 Kg7 50.Re6 Rb2 51.f4 Rxb3 52.Bb5 Re3 53.Rc6 Kh7 54.Rc7+ Re7 55.Rc8 Kg7 56.Bd3 Rd7 57.Be4 Rd2+ 58.Kh3 Rd7 59.Rc6 Rd6 60.Rc7+ Kf6 61.Bc2 Rd4 62.Bb3 Be7 63.Bc4 Rd6 64.Kg2 Rd2+ 65.Kf3 Rd6 66.Ke4 Rd8 67.Bd5 Rd6 68.Rb7 Rd8 69.Rxb6+ Rd6 70.Rb5 Bd8 71.Rb7 Be7 72.Ra7 Rb6 73.Rxa5 Rb4+ 74.Kf3 Rd4 75.Ra6+ Kg7 76.Be4 Rd6 77.Rxd6 Bxd6 78.a5 Bc5 79.a6 Kf6 80.Ke2 1-0

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 02:28 AM
Grischuk wins rapid 4, Aronian out! Grischuk has displayed great fighting qualities in this match.

Grischuk - Aronian.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 e6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.c5 c6 8.h3 b6 9.b4 a5 10.a3 Ba6 11.Bxa6 Rxa6 12.0-0 Qa8 13.Rb1 axb4 14.axb4 Qb7 15.Qc2 Rfa8 16.Ne1 Bd8 17.Nd3 Ra3 18.b5 bxc5 19.dxc5 Be7 20.Rfc1 g5 21.Bg3 R8a5 22.Qd1 Bf8 23.bxc6 Qxc6 24.Nb4 Qxc5 25.Ncxd5 Nxd5 26.Rxc5 Rxc5 27.Nxd5 Rxd5 28.Qc2 Rc5 29.Qb2 Rd3 30.Ra1 Bg7 31.Ra8+ Nf8 32.Qb8 Rcd5 33.Qe8 h6 34.Kh2 Rd2 35.Qe7 Rd7 36.Qe8 Kh7 37.Qb8 Rb2 38.Qc8 Kg6 39.Qc1 Rdb7 40.Rd8 Nh7 41.Qd1 R2b3 42.Qc2+ f5 43.Qc6 Nf8 44.Bd6 R3b6 45.Qe8+ Rf7 46.Bxf8 Be5+ 47.g3 f4 48.Rd7 fxg3+ 49.Kg2 1-0

Garvinator
10-05-2011, 02:42 AM
I think it is all over.

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 02:43 AM
Kramnik - Radjabov blitz 3. Another endgame blunder by Radjabov who must now win with white to avoid elimination.

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.d4 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 exd4 8.Nxd4 Re8 9.f3 Nc6 10.Be3 Nh5 11.Qd2 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 Nf4 13.Be3 Nxe2+ 14.Nxe2 f5 15.Bg5 Qd7 16.Ng3 Qf7 17.Rac1 Bd7 18.b3 a5 19.a4 Be5 20.Bf4 Bg7 21.Kh1 b6 22.Be3 Re6 23.Ne2 Ree8 24.Nc3 Bc6 25.exf5 Qxf5 26.Bd4 Bxd4 27.Qxd4 Re5 28.Nd5 Bxd5 29.cxd5 Qf7 30.Qc4 Re7 31.h3 Rae8 32.Rc2 h5 33.Kh2 Kh7 34.Rfc1 Rd7 35.f4 Rde7 36.Qd4 Kg8 37.Qf2 Rf8 38.Rc4 Qg7 39.Re1 Rfe8 40.Rxe7 Rxe7 41.Qg3 Qf6 42.h4 Kg7 43.Qg5 Kf7 44.Rc2 Qf5 45.Rc3 Qf6 46.Qxf6+ Kxf6 47.Kg3 Kf5 48.Kf3 Re4 49.Rc4 Re7 50.g3 Kf6 51.Re4 Rf7 52.Re6+ Kf5 53.Re8 Kf6 54.Ke4 Kg7 55.Re6 Kh7 56.Kf3 Kg7 57.g4 hxg4+ 58.Kxg4 Kh7 59.h5 gxh5+ 60.Kg5 Kg8 61.f5 Rh7?? 62.f6 h4?? 63.Kg6 1-0

HydeParkPrince
10-05-2011, 02:45 AM
Such a shame for Radjabov to have his clock stoped with no extra time for both players to recompose themselves it was looking balanced in that game, then "they" fixed it.
In Soviet Russia, the clock fixes YOU.

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 03:04 AM
Radjabov - Kramnik blitz 4. Radjabov out. Kramnik through.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 0-0 6.0-0 d6 7.Nbd2 Bb6 8.Ba4 Ne7 9.Bc2 c6 10.h3 Ng6 11.d4 Re8 12.Re1 h6 13.Nf1 d5 14.Nxe5 Nxe5 15.dxe5 Rxe5 16.Bf4 Re8 17.e5 Nh7 18.Qd3 Nf8 19.Rad1 Qh4 20.Bg3 Qg5 21.Kh2 Qg6 22.Qd2 Bf5 23.Bxf5 Qxf5 24.Ne3 Bxe3 25.Rxe3 Rad8 26.Qd4 b6 27.Rf3 Qe6 28.Rfd3 Rd7 29.f4 Qf5 30.Qa4 Rc8 31.c4 Ne6 32.b4 Rcd8 33.Qxc6 Nxf4 34.Rd4 Ne2 35.Rxd5 Rxd5 36.cxd5 Nxg3 37.Kxg3 Rc8 38.Qb5 Qxe5+ 39.Kf2 Rc2+ 40.Kg1 Qe3+ 41.Kh2 Qe5+ 42.Kh1 Qd6 43.Qe8+ Qf8 44.Qe4 Rc7 45.d6 Rd7 46.Qc6 Qe8 47.b5 g6 48.a4 Qe6 49.Qc8+ Kg7 50.Qc3+ Qf6 51.Qc6 Qe6 52.Kg1 h5 53.Qc3+ Qf6 54.Qc6 Qe6 55.Qc3+ Qf6 56.Qg3 h4 57.Qa3 Qe5 58.Qb4 g5 59.Qg4 Qe3+ 60.Kh1 Rxd6 61.Rxd6 Qe1+ 62.Kh2 Qe5+ 63.g3 Qxd6 64.Qxg5+ Kf8 65.Qxh4 Qd2+ mystery result that wasn't a win for white

Max Illingworth
10-05-2011, 03:05 AM
It's remarkable that not a single member correctly predicted the results of all four matches.

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 03:19 AM
It's remarkable that not a single member correctly predicted the results of all four matches.

The combined result of the four matches was quite unlikely. If the betting odds were justified the chances of this one were probably something like 1 in 30. With this number of voters it's about 50-50 no-one's going to get it.

Scores from round 1:

3/4 Shirty, TheRealDeal
2 Jesper, Adamski, Bollard, fireeater, Garvinator, McTaggart, Scott Colliver, Tom Krasnicki
1 Garrett, Moriarty, Chigoresov, JaK, machomortensen, Sotto Voce, Viewed, zurich53
0 Boris, Skulte

The penalty dummy option (all underdogs based on rating) also scored 3/4. :owned:

Skulte
10-05-2011, 08:54 AM
0 Boris, Skulte


Oh wasn't it who is going to lose the first round matches? :uhoh:

ER
10-05-2011, 11:33 AM
.. 0 Boris, Skulte


hehe zilchers! :P :owned:

Desmond
10-05-2011, 11:49 AM
hehe zilchers! :P :owned:
Damn, picked one underdog and it was the only who who didn't win.

Garvinator
10-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Oh wasn't it who is going to lose the first round matches? :uhoh:To pick four losers is just as impressive as picking four winners :clap:

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 08:49 PM
New poll added, will run for a couple of days only so be fast.

Tony Dowden
10-05-2011, 10:01 PM
After three games it seems conceivable that we could get Kamsky, Radjabov, Gelfand & Grischuk qualifying for the next stage :rolleyes: in which case I think I'm with Magnus on avoiding 4-game shoot-outs.


I rest my (and Magnus') case: only Kramnik survived but even then only by the skin of his teeth.

Interesting to see the Russians all won (Kamsky and Gelfand being Russian emigres).

Vlad
10-05-2011, 11:22 PM
Interesting to see the Russians all won (Kamsky and Gelfand being Russian emigres).

What does Boris Gelfand have in common with Russia?:rolleyes:

Kevin Bonham
10-05-2011, 11:37 PM
The significance of Vlad's comment above is that Gelfand is ex-Soviet but not ex-Russian. He's from Belarus.

ER
11-05-2011, 01:01 AM
The significance of Vlad's comment above is that Gelfand is ex-Soviet but not ex-Russian. He's from Belarus.

Which means White Russia! :P

Capablanca-Fan
11-05-2011, 02:29 AM
IIRC, when Fischer proclaimed that he would beat all the Russians at Bled, 1961, Keres pointed out, "There are no Russians here. Geller is Ukrainian, Tal is Latvian, Petrosyan is Armenian, and I am Estonian." Fischer retorted, "You're all Russians to me," probably not the most tactful thing to say to Keres. When asked why he never became world champ, he is supposed to have said, "I was unlucky. Like my country." (Other stories have Spassky saying this about him.)

Capablanca-Fan
11-05-2011, 02:31 AM
Which means White Russia! :P
Good point.

Metro
11-05-2011, 03:55 PM
IIRC, when Fischer proclaimed that he would beat all the Russians at Bled, 1961, Keres pointed out, "There are no Russians here. Geller is Ukrainian, Tal is Latvian, Petrosyan is Armenian, and I am Estonian." Fischer retorted, "You're all Russians to me," probably not the most tactful thing to say to Keres. When asked why he never became world champ, he is supposed to have said, "I was unlucky. Like my country." (Other stories have Spassky saying this about him.)
I recall a Spassky quote (along the lines)I think Keres was destined not to be Champion.

Bollard
11-05-2011, 10:03 PM
Kramnik has appeared out of sorts so far. Hopefully the two day break will allow him to regroup. I've tipped him in the poll, more from loyalty than hard headed analysis.

Kevin Bonham
12-05-2011, 08:17 PM
Oh no, I forgot to vote in the poll again. Same punishment as last time, it was good for =1st in the 1/4 final tipping after all. :lol:

Desmond
12-05-2011, 08:25 PM
Oh no, I forgot to vote in the poll again. Same punishment as last time, it was good for =1st in the 1/4 final tipping after all. :lol:
I went the GK option as written, in honour of my old sparring partner GK2000.

ER
12-05-2011, 09:04 PM
Oh no, I forgot to vote in the poll again. Same punishment as last time, it was good for =1st in the 1/4 final tipping after all. :lol:

Is it past the deadline already? Or you just don't wanna pick the wrong couple?

ER
12-05-2011, 09:06 PM
Kamsky won't even win a game vs Gelfand! I predict a score of Gelfand 3-1 Kamsky or Gelfand 2.5 - 1.5 Kamsky.

Kevin Bonham
12-05-2011, 09:12 PM
Is it past the deadline already?

Yes, poll expired about 2:30 today.

Head to head records:

Gelfand +6=17-3 Kamsky (+1=3 rapid +1-2=1 blitz).

Gelfand beat Kamsky 3.5-1.5 in a Candidates match to qualify for the 2007 World Champs round robin, in which he did very well.

Kramik +2=6-0 Grischuk (+1-1 rapid +1=2-5 blitz).

Kramnik might want to win one before the blitz tiebreak this time. :lol:

ER
12-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Well the ex world champ is a fine player, great cultured guy and still relatively young. On the other hand "Sasha" Grischuk is in great form and knocking out Levon is not a small thing. I picked him because I believe that at this stage form is an important factor. Plus, again vs Aronian he exhibited great fighting qualities and didn't lose interest due to fatigue as it has happened in the past.

Kevin Bonham
12-05-2011, 09:31 PM
It's hard to say what "form" Kramnik is in since he and Radjabov played hardly any real chess until they got to blitz.

Carl Gorka
12-05-2011, 09:39 PM
I missed the poll :( But I'd have opted for Gelfand and Kramnik, even if I'd like to see Grischuk go through now :)

ER
12-05-2011, 10:17 PM
It's hard to say what "form" Kramnik is in since he and Radjabov played hardly any real chess until they got to blitz.

Kramnik and "form" (or form) are in no way related or referred to in my previous. My use of the term was strictly related to Grischuk!
What really worries me is that if Grischuk (28 yo) is eliminated another chance of a younger player having a go at the Chess World Champion's title goes begging. If that happens we'll have another late 30's early 40s affair again. Actually I just found out that Kramnik (born 1975) is one year younger than Kamsky. Gelfand is 43 and Anand 42!

Kevin Bonham
12-05-2011, 10:48 PM
Grischuk - Kramnik

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.Qc2 c5 8.Rd1 Qa5 9.Nd2 cxd4 10.exd4 dxc4 11.Nxc4 Qd8 12.Bd3 Nb6 13.0-0 Bd7 14.Nxb6 Qxb6 15.d5 Kh8 16.dxe6 ˝-˝


What really worries me is that if Grischuk (28 yo) is eliminated another chance of a younger player having a go at the Chess World Champion's title goes begging.

Another chance will come along soon enough after that. This is yet another problem with the slowness of FIDE's cycle and the extent to which qualification for the final match is so much influnced by stuff that by that stage will have happened 2-5 years ago.

Garvinator
12-05-2011, 11:02 PM
What a pair of skirts! Give them a massive chicken factor for this.

Kevin Bonham
13-05-2011, 12:05 AM
Kamsky,Gata - Gelfand,Boris [B90]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (2.1), 12.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be7 8.Bc4 0-0 9.0-0 Be6 10.Bb3 Nc6 11.Qe2 Na5 12.Rfd1 Nxb3 13.axb3 Qc7 14.Bg5 Nh5 15.Nxe5 Bxg5 16.Qxh5 Bf6 17.Nf3 Bxc3 18.bxc3 Qxc3 19.Nd4 Rfe8 20.Qa5 Rac8 21.f3 Qxa5 22.Rxa5 Rc3 23.Kf2 Kf8 24.Rda1 Rec8 25.Ke1 Ke7 26.Kd2 R3c5 27.R5a4 f5 28.Rb4 R8c7 29.exf5 Bxf5 30.Re1+ Kf7 31.Rb6 Rd5 32.c3 Bc8 33.b4 Re7 34.Ra1 Ke8 35.b5 Rc7 36.bxa6 bxa6 ˝-˝

Draw was offered with Kamsky having about 2 mins to make time control vs about an hour for Gelfand who had been playing quickly and somewhat agitatedly in Kamsky's time trouble.

Kevin Bonham
13-05-2011, 12:29 AM
What a pair of skirts! Give them a massive chicken factor for this.

Base value Grischuk 34-16=18 Kramnik 33-16=17. This is a bit harsh on Grischuk since Kramnik was about to recapture a pawn so make it 17 all.

Colour Grischuk +10 Kramnik -10

Ratings Grischuk -8 Kramnik +8

Symmetrical pawn structure Grischuk -5 Kramnik -5

Been there done that very narrowly avoided

Why bother? both players +15 having avoided +30 by one half-move

Grischuk +29 Kramnik +25 - which is chicken, but not as chicken as some.

machomortensen
13-05-2011, 05:51 AM
JAK says: "Yes, as much as Bent Larsen was considered an Argentinian! Anyway, I will need my friend Henrik's opinion on this. As far as I know though Danish people aren't less nationalistic than any others!

I have NEVER EVER heard anyone considering Bent Larsen as an Argentinian. And he definately defined himself as danish. For an example after his first cerebral haemorrhage he were at a sanatorium with morning song. There he was so sorry because almost every time he proposed a song, none of the other patients knew it...

In my opinion one can argue that he was cosmopolite.

Jesper Norgaard
13-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I seem to have brought this thread quite a bit off track with a casual comment. Well, let me finish that comment and try and get it back on track.

I certainly don't consider myself "American" in any sense of the word, but Danish like Larsen. My comment was actually about the phenomena of the US citizens over decades have patented the word "American" for themselves, but think of the origin of the word. America is North America and South America - how come only the inhabitants of a certain country demand (and have been granted subconsciously) the patent to be "the only true Americans". What about Canadians, Argentinians, Mexicans etc. etc.? To make an analogy, what would happen if the inhabitants of China, from belonging to the biggest country in Asia, demanded that everybody called them Asians and nobody else could be called Asians? And yet, that is what has happened over a period of hundreds of years for US, everybody has just obliged.

To return to the WC let me just spill out a bit of indignation of Drawnik playing for 8 draws in classical and rapids and then going to the blitz maniac. A draw in 16 moves after 2 full rest days is a joke, no matter if he has black. FIDE took a lot of effort to create the Sofia rules within the Laws of Chess, but then don't use them for the most important championship they have under their responsibility! A draw agreement ban for the first 30 moves would be ideal to avoid this scam. Kramnik should be called Drawnik and Grischuk should be called Yawnik. People will lose interest in chess if this goes on.

Max Illingworth
13-05-2011, 11:59 AM
In my view Grischuk is the person who played boring chess in the first game, rather than Kramnik. Kramnik obtained an equal position out of the opening as a result of his home preparation, and pressing for a win in the position would have created more losing than winning chances. Grischuk had White and a slight initiative, therefore he is the one who should be 'blamed' for the quick draw as he could have played on without any real risk.

In a match, a draw with Black is a good result.

From the user 'Thomas' on the comments page of ChessVibes:


In general, I would primarily blame white, rather than black, for a quick draw.
I now compare Kramnik and Nakamura, based on games since 2009 – that’s the period after Kramnik changed his style, and when both played roughly similar opposition.
Kramnik has 7 quick draws (25 moves or less) with white, out of 137 games. Nakamura has 9 such draws, out of 134 games.
Kramnik is Drawnik, while Nakamura is a relentless fighter (“there’s no point in taking draws”). Really?????

:hmm:

Jesper Norgaard
13-05-2011, 12:23 PM
In a match, a draw with Black is a good result.

Would you also say that if Germany and Brazil in a football match would toss the ball to and fro in the defense without even attempting to make a goal, for 90 minutes? The difference compared to chess is, that after 20 minutes they can also stop the match and call it a day. In football at least they have to work out for 90 minutes.

Kevin Bonham
13-05-2011, 01:50 PM
I blame the format as noted several posts up. Kramnik has played longer WC matches with Topalov and Anand that included tiebreak clauses. In neither of those matches was he playing ultra-safe boring chess to try to reach the rapid tiebreak. Radjabov is just as much to blame for their match as Kramnik, perhaps even more so because he is an expert in a dynamic opening but decided not to risk running into Kramnik's preparation. In 4-game matches if you lose one game you don't have time to recover.

Max Illingworth
13-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Would you also say that if Germany and Brazil in a football match would toss the ball to and fro in the defense without even attempting to make a goal, for 90 minutes? The difference compared to chess is, that after 20 minutes they can also stop the match and call it a day. In football at least they have to work out for 90 minutes.

This analogy only applies if Kramnik doesn't make a serious winning attempt in tonight's game.

Kevin Bonham
13-05-2011, 09:39 PM
These comments re the short draw are more interesting than the game itself

http://www.chessintranslation.com/2011/05/kramnik-i-thought-of-banning-castling-before-the-10th-move/

Kevin Bonham
14-05-2011, 02:58 AM
Kramnik - Grischuk. Great tenacity from Grischuk once again.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.e3 Nf6 5.d4 cxd4 6.exd4 e4 7.Ne5 Bd6 8.c5 Bb8 9.Nc4 d5 10.cxd6 0-0 11.Bf4 Na5 12.Ne3 Bxd6 13.Bxd6 Qxd6 14.d5 Qe5 15.Be2 Rd8 16.Qd2 Nc6 17.Rd1 Ne7 18.Qd4 Qxd4 19.Rxd4 Nf5 20.Nxf5 Bxf5 21.Kd2 Ne8 22.g4 Bg6 23.Rc1 Rac8 24.Nxe4 Rxc1 25.Kxc1 Bxe4 26.Rxe4 Kf8 27.Ra4 a6 28.Rb4 Nd6 29.Kd2 h6 30.Bd3 Ke7 31.Ke3 Kd7 32.f3 Re8+ 33.Be4 g6 34.Kd4 Rc8 35.h4 Rc1 36.Ke5 Ke7 37.g5 hxg5 38.hxg5 Rg1 39.Kf4 f6 40.Bxg6 Rxg5 41.Be4 Rg2 42.a4 a5 43.Rb3 Kd8 44.Ke3 Rh2 45.Kf4 Rg2 46.Bb1 Rd2 47.Bd3 Rg2 48.Ke3 Rh2 49.Kd4 Rh4+ 50.Kc5 Kc7 51.Rb6 Rxa4! 52.b3 [No white hasn't blundered a piece: 52.Rxd6 Rb4 53.Bb5 Rxb5+ 54.Kxb5 Kxd6 55.Kxa5 Kxd5 56.Kb6 Ke5 57.Kxb7 Kf4 58.b4 Kxf3 59.b5 f5 60.b6 f4 61.Ka6 Ke2 62.b7 f3 63.b8Q f2 draw] 52...Rb4 53.Rxb4 axb4 54.Kxb4 b6 55.Kc3 Kd8 56.Kd4 Ke7 ˝-˝

Kevin Bonham
14-05-2011, 03:03 AM
Gelfand - Kamsky. Kamsky also saves from a very bad looking position

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Bg5 Ne4 5.Bh4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 dxc4 7.e3 Be6 8.Nf3 Bg7 9.Be2 c5 10.0-0 0-0 11.Rb1 Bd5 12.Qc2 cxd4 13.cxd4 b6 14.Bxc4 Nc6 15.Rfc1 Bxc4 16.Qxc4 Na5 17.Qc7 f6 18.Qxd8 Rfxd8 19.Rc7 Kf7 20.Rbc1 Ke8 21.Bg3 Bh6 22.Kf1 Rd7 23.Rxd7 Kxd7 24.Rc7+ Ke8 25.Nd2 b5 26.Ne4 a6 27.Nc3 Bf8 28.Nd5 Rd8 29.e4 f5 30.f3 fxe4 31.fxe4 Rd7 32.Ke2 Bg7 33.Bf2 e6 34.Rc8+ Kf7 35.Nb6 Rb7 36.d5 exd5 37.exd5 Be5 38.Ra8 Nc4 39.Rxa6 Nxb6 40.Bxb6 Bxh2 41.Kf3 Rd7 42.Ke4 Re7+ 43.Kd3 Rd7 44.Kd4 Bg1+ 45.Ke4 Re7+ 46.Kf4 Bxb6 47.Rxb6 Re2 48.g4 h5 49.Rb7+ Kf8 50.g5 h4 51.Rh7 b4 52.Rxh4 Ke7 53.Rh6 Rxa2 54.Rxg6 Rd2 55.Re6+ Kf7 56.Ke5 b3 57.Rf6+ Kg7 58.Rb6 b2 59.d6 Kg6 60.Ke6 Re2+ 61.Kd5 Rd2+ 62.Kc6 Kxg5 63.d7 Rc2+ 64.Kd6 Rd2+ 65.Ke6 Re2+ 66.Kf7 Rf2+ ˝-˝

Vlad
14-05-2011, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=Kevin Bonham] Kramnik - Grischuk. [No white hasn't blundered a piece: 52.Rxd6 Rb4 53.Bb5 Rxb5+ 54.Kxb5 Kxd6 55.Kxa5 Kxd5 56.Kb6 Ke5 57.Kxb7 Kf4 58.b4 Kxf3 59.b5 f5 60.b6 f4 61.Ka6 Ke2 62.b7 f3 63.b8Q f2 draw] QUOTE]

In the variation I would change move 61...Ke2 for 61...Kg2. It does not make any difference to the result in this position because white King is too far. However, the main point of the draw is that King can go to the corner. With King on e2 white can get at least a tempo by forcing black's King to go to f1.

For a similar reason 61 Kc6 is a better move than 61 Ka6.

Kevin Bonham
14-05-2011, 11:19 PM
Grischuk - Kramnik

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 8.Nc3 Nxc3 9.bxc3 Bg4 10.Re1 0-0 11.Bf4 Bd6 12.Bxd6 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 Qxd6 14.Re3 Rae8 15.Rae1 Re7 16.Rxe7 Nxe7 17.h4 Rd8 18.c4 b6 19.c3 h6 20.cxd5 Nxd5 21.Bc4 c6 22.Re5 Nf6 23.Qf4 Qd7 24.g3 Kf8 25.Bb3 ˝-˝

Ah well at least the other game is interesting.

Garvinator
14-05-2011, 11:32 PM
And this is where I think that press conference about short draws and Kramniks comments about opening theory and computers is just utter garbage and the journos should have pressed him more on it.

When a player deliberately chooses dull openings and then chooses the duller variations of those openings, then I think they deserve all the brickbats and chicken factors they deserve.

Some players, Judit Polgar comes to mind, play interesting, aggressive openings and seem to attempt to win each game. This might just be an impression, but I certainly would rather watch her games than some of the tripe that has been served up as sport in this.

This does not mean that a player has to choose risky openings that they do not feel comfortable in, but these top players should at least attempt to get the most out of a position possible and keep pressing until nothing is left to play for, however remote.

My whole opposition to short draws is that these players receive decent cash to show their skills and to show that they are the best players in the world. I fail to see how following main line theory for many moves and then agreeing a draw shows this.

Adamski
14-05-2011, 11:39 PM
So far both matches are pretty boring.

Kevin Bonham
14-05-2011, 11:43 PM
So far both matches are pretty boring.

In my view Grischuk-Kramnik has had two boring draws and one interesting game that happened to end up as a draw.

Gelfand-Kamsky first game was so-so, second game was quite interesting and tonight is interesting at the moment.

Kevin Bonham
15-05-2011, 02:41 AM
Gelfand-Kamsky.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nb3 Be7 8.h3 Be6 9.Qf3 Nbd7 10.g4 h6 11.0-0-0 Rc8 12.Nd5 Bxd5 13.exd5 Nb6 14.h4 Qc7 15.c3 Nbxd5 16.Bd2 Nb6 17.g5 Nfd7 18.gxh6 gxh6 19.Kb1 Qc6 20.Qh3 d5 21.Be2 Nc4 22.Bc1 Nf6 23.Rhe1 Qe6 24.Qh2 Qf5+ 25.Ka1 Kf8 26.f3 Bd6 27.Qg1 Bb8 28.Bd3 Qh5 29.Qh1 Ba7 30.Qh3 Re8 31.Bxc4 dxc4 32.Na5 e4 33.Nxc4 Qxf3 34.Qh2 Ng4 35.Qc7 Bf2 36.Rf1 e3 37.Bxe3 Nxe3 38.Ne5 Qf5 39.Qc5+ Kg7 40.Qxe3 Rxe5 41.Qxf2 Qxf2 42.Rxf2 Rhe8 43.Rg1+ Kf8 44.Kb1 Re2 45.Rf4 R8e4 46.Rgf1 Re1+ 47.Kc2 R4e2+ 48.Kb3 Rxf1 49.Rxf1 Kg7 50.Rf4 Re6 51.a4 Kg6 52.Kc4 f5 53.a5 Kf6 54.Kd3 Re7 ˝-˝

Yet another draw but seemed a very high quality game early on with the first apparent slip being 27...Bb8. White executed Bxc4 too late; it was strong on move 28 and crushing on move 29. For his part Black missed 38...Qh5 winning (he was short of time at this stage); instead of Bxe3 white should have checked with the queen and dropped it back to d3, retaining some hopes. There were a few other little errors but also a lot of strong only moves that were seen over the board.

ER
15-05-2011, 04:56 AM
... but also a lot of strong only moves that were seen over the board.

Only moves are the best moves! - Bill Jordan

thanks for reproducing games and analysis. Management has sabotaged my laptop so I can't play any games! :( they don't know about interactive interface though! hehe

Kevin Bonham
15-05-2011, 10:25 PM
All the excitement yesterday was clearly too much for these two:

Gelfand,Boris - Kamsky,Gata [D80]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (2.4), 15.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Bg5 Ne4 5.Bh4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 dxc4 7.e3 Be6 8.Nf3 c5 9.Be2 Bg7 10.0-0 0-0 11.Rb1 cxd4 12.Nxd4 Bd5 13.Qc2 Qd7 14.Rfd1 Bxd4 15.cxd4 Qe6 16.Bf3 Bxf3 17.gxf3 Nd7 18.Qe4 b6 19.Rdc1 Rac8 20.Rb4 c3 21.Rb3 Nf6 22.Qxe6 fxe6 23.Bxf6 ˝-˝

Garvinator
15-05-2011, 10:27 PM
I wonder if both semis are going to go to rapids with no wins in eight games :evil:

ER
15-05-2011, 11:40 PM
I wonder if both semis are going to go to rapids with no wins in eight games :evil:

That would be exiting as far as I am concerned! The future of chess lies in it's rapid form. Exhaustive analysis of existing openings, strategies and even endings would lead to an impenetrable impasse resulting in draw, after draw, after boring draw.
So, future generations would have to chose between rapid chess which allows for human errors/inaccuracies or something stupid (although I liked it at the beginning) like fisher random!

Kevin Bonham
15-05-2011, 11:49 PM
Exhaustive analysis of existing openings, strategies and even endings would lead to an impenetrable impasse resulting in draw, after draw, after boring draw.

I doubt this will happen because no-one can remember all the theory. There should always be people reviving obscure lines to play for the win if they want to. We have seen a lot of games where the desire to play for a win is not that strong.

FIDE should respond by finding a longer-match format. If this takes too long then reduce the number of Candidates to four and eliminate spurious avenues of qualification (which accounted for about half the field in this case).

FIDE will probably respond with Sofia rules or other unproductive interventions or with something even sillier - if they do anything at all.

Garvinator
16-05-2011, 12:25 AM
If fide retains the candidate match format, which is not certain considering Carlsen's protests about the format, then I think it is likely they will go with:

Runner Up from World Championship match
Winner of World Cup
Winner of Grand Prix
Sponsors invite

And then top four on rating list who are not already qualified via the above or current world champion.

Except for the sponsors invite, I think that list is fair enough. I can not see how they can chop it down to four players considering the list above.

What they can do is to split the quarters, semis and final. Quarters in first part of the year, Semi's in middle of year and final at end of year.

Jesper Norgaard
16-05-2011, 01:27 AM
... We have seen a lot of games where the desire to play for a win is not that strong.

FIDE should respond by finding a longer-match format. If this takes too long then reduce the number of Candidates to four and eliminate spurious avenues of qualification (which accounted for about half the field in this case).

FIDE will probably respond with Sofia rules or other unproductive interventions or with something even sillier - if they do anything at all.
Having more games in the matches would be an advantage - but will not necessarily change the players' desire to take risks. Sofia rules as you say is something cosmetic that will just postpone the inevitable (although I think the audience at large will benefit seeing games with more moves).

Here is a suggestion to improve the fighting spirit: if the winner of a match is guaranteed x prize money, and the loser y prize money, and x > y in a fixed way, then nobody cares if they win in normal games, rapid games, blitz or Armageddon. Instead if the winner gets x1 prize money for winning in normal games, x2 prize money for winning in rapid games, x3 prize money for winning in blitz, and x4 prize money for winning in Armageddon, then I think we would see some more fighting spirit throughout the matches. x1 and y1 should be as they are now, x2 and y2 should be closer, x3 and y3 still closer, and x4 and y4 close to the same amount, so that if you only win in the Armageddon, you have effectively lost the prize money advantage of being the winner of the match, only having the advantage of being able to score more prize money in the next match if winning that.

This is similar to the extended Sofia rules/prize incentive in the Doeberl Cup (I might have gotten details wrong here, not being Australian): In previous Doeberl Cups there were complicated rules to avoid draws at any cost by banning draws by agreement and even draws by 3-time repetition etc. going dangerously towards something that was simple not FIDE rules anymore. When that was pointed out as being incorrect, they instead put an extra prize for fighting spirit and that turned out pretty well, sure a few players bailed out with short draws all the same, but many others took up the challenge and played all games out.

When there are prize money for every participant as in the WC, this idea of prize money incentive to fight works particularly well.

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2011, 01:40 AM
I had an idea but I'll post it on one of the Arbiters Corner threads.

Kramnik,Vladimir - Grischuk,Alexander [A34]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (2.4), 15.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.e3 Nf6 5.Be2 d5 6.d4 exd4 7.exd4 Be6 8.Be3 dxc4 9.0-0 cxd4 10.Nxd4 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 Qa5 12.Bxf6 gxf6 13.Re1 Rd8 14.Qc2 Be7 15.Qe4 Qc5 16.Qxb7 0-0 17.Ne4 Qb4 18.Qxa7 Rd7 19.Qe3 Qxb2 20.Rac1 Qd4 21.Qf3 Rc8 22.Ng3 Rdc7 23.Nh5 Kh8 24.Rcd1 Qb2 25.Qg3 Bf8 26.Bg4 c3 27.Bxe6 fxe6 28.Nxf6 Bg7 29.Nh5 Qb7 30.Qh4 Rg8 31.Rd8 Rc8 32.Rxg8+ Rxg8 33.Nxg7 Qxg7 34.Qe4 c2 35.Rc1 Rc8 36.Qxe6 Rd8 37.Qb3 Rd2 38.Qb8+ Qg8 39.Qb2+ Qg7 40.Qb8+ Qg8 41.Qe5+ Qg7 42.Qe8+ Qg8 draw

An exciting game and as with last night's game in the other match, chances for both sides. Only Grischuk was in bad time trouble (4 mins to reach 40) when he missed 28...Rg7 29.Qe5 Qb7! when ...c2 and ...Ba3 follow getting the exchange with the c-pawn still a factor.

Kramnik missed 31.Nf4 (spotted immediately by JaK on account of the smother) which is rather nasty for black to deal with and seems to at least give white a big advantage with ample chances for black to lose. I think ...h6 is the correct reply.

Tony Dowden
16-05-2011, 07:39 AM
I had an idea but I'll post it on one of the Arbiters Corner threads.

Kramnik,Vladimir - Grischuk,Alexander [A34]
FIDE Candidates Matches 2011 Kazan/Tatarstan/Russia (2.4), 15.05.2011
[Robot 3]

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.e3 Nf6 5.Be2 d5 6.d4 exd4 7.exd4 Be6 8.Be3 dxc4 9.0-0 cxd4 10.Nxd4 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 Qa5 12.Bxf6 gxf6 13.Re1 Rd8 14.Qc2 Be7 15.Qe4 Qc5 16.Qxb7 0-0 17.Ne4 Qb4 18.Qxa7 Rd7 19.Qe3 Qxb2 20.Rac1 Qd4 21.Qf3 Rc8 22.Ng3 Rdc7 23.Nh5 Kh8 24.Rcd1 Qb2 25.Qg3 Bf8 26.Bg4 c3 27.Bxe6 fxe6 28.Nxf6 Bg7 29.Nh5 Qb7 30.Qh4 Rg8 31.Rd8 Rc8 32.Rxg8+ Rxg8 33.Nxg7 Qxg7 34.Qe4 c2 35.Rc1 Rc8 36.Qxe6 Rd8 37.Qb3 Rd2 38.Qb8+ Qg8 39.Qb2+ Qg7 40.Qb8+ Qg8 41.Qe5+ Qg7 42.Qe8+ Qg8 draw

An exciting game and as with last night's game in the other match, chances for both sides. Only Grischuk was in bad time trouble (4 mins to reach 40) when he missed 28...Rg7 29.Qe5 Qb7! when ...c2 and ...Ba3 follow getting the exchange with the c-pawn still a factor.

Kramnik missed 31.Nf4 (spotted immediately by JaK on account of the smother) which is rather nasty for black to deal with and seems to at least give white a big advantage with ample chances for black to lose. I think ...h6 is the correct reply.

I reckon Kramnik had other chances - not too sure what though (too early in the morning).

I'm something of a Kramnik fan (when Leko, Gelfand, Radjabov, and co are playing anyway) but I hope he gets eliminated soon as I'd rather see Anand defend his title against someone else - maybe Grischuk, as I think he has room for improvement (if only he can cure his addiction to time trouble).

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2011, 03:22 PM
If fide retains the candidate match format, which is not certain considering Carlsen's protests about the format, then I think it is likely they will go with:

Runner Up from World Championship match
Winner of World Cup
Winner of Grand Prix
Sponsors invite

And then top four on rating list who are not already qualified via the above or current world champion.

I can't see any need for the runner up from the previous WC match to qualify for the next Candidates. If they are good enough they will qualify on merit and if they are not good enough they were lucky to get one WC shot let alone two.

Allowing a sponsor's invite or a host nation invite debases the title. If it's necessary to have it in a city with a participant then encourage cities with strong enough players to bid.

Of course I don't expect FIDE to agree with me on either of these.

ER
16-05-2011, 06:41 PM
I can't see any need for the runner up from the previous WC match to qualify for the next Candidates. If they are good enough they will qualify on merit and if they are not good enough they were lucky to get one WC shot let alone two.
Correct!


Allowing a sponsor's invite or a host nation invite debases the title. If it's necessary to have it in a city with a participant then encourage cities with strong enough players to bid.

Unfortunately, FIDE was never able to provide the main purse themselves with the exception of the peanuts post WW2 period till the Fischer era. One cannot help but to recall Lasker, Capa, Alekhine period when the players had to find sponsors themselves in order to arrange a match with the World Champion. I also remember chess cultured cities like Belgrade and Buenos Aires offering respectable sums (but never equaling private sponsorships) to host matches but never dictating who's to be invited to play.
On the other hand we have the example of Mr Jezdimir Vasiljevic who staged his own "World Championship" 1992 match b/n Fischer and Spasky!
I don't know if his sponsorship was the biggest ever for a chess event, nevertheless, I doubt it that FIDE will ever be able to match it. Additionally I don't know how much private or state sponsorship this candidates event has attracted!


Of course I don't expect FIDE to agree with me on either of these...
I think there's more chances for Alex to become a moderator of ChessChat than that happening! :P

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2011, 10:04 PM
Rapid 1

Kramnik-Grischuk

1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. g3 e5 6. Nb5 Bb4+ 7. N1c3 d6 8.
Bg2 a6 9. Na3 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 O-O 11. O-O h6 12. Nc2 Qc7 13. Ne3 Be6 14. Ba3
Rfd8 15. Bb4 Rac8 16. Rb1 e4 17. Qa4 a5 18. Ba3 Ne5 19. c5 dxc5 20. c4 Neg4 21.
Nxg4 Bxg4 22. Qc2 Qd7 23. Bb2 Qd2 24. Qxd2 Rxd2 25. Bxf6 gxf6 26. Bxe4 Bxe2 27.
Rfc1 Rcd8 28. Bxb7 Rxa2 29. Bd5 Rd7 30. Rb5 Rc7 31. Rcb1 a4 32. Ra5 Kg7 33. Kg2
Bd3 34. Rb8 f5 35. Rba8 Bc2 36. Kf3 Be4+ 37. Bxe4 fxe4+ 38. Ke3 Rc2 39. Rxa4
Re7 40. Rd8 1/2-1/2

Gelfand-Kamsky

1. c4 g6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Qa4+ Bd7 5. Qb3 dxc4 6. Qxc4 a6 7. g3 b5 8.
Qb3 c5 9. Bg2 c4 10. Qd1 Nc6 11. b3 cxb3 12. axb3 Bg7 13. d4 O-O 14. O-O Rc8
15. Bb2 Qb6 16. Ne5 Rfd8 17. Nxd7 Rxd7 18. e3 e6 19. Rc1 Rdc7 20. Ne4 Nxe4 21.
Bxe4 a5 22. Qd2 a4 23. bxa4 bxa4 24. Ba3 Na5 25. Bc5 Qb5 26. Rb1 Nb3 27. Qa2
Bf8 28. Bc2 Rb8 29. Bxf8 Kxf8 30. Rb2 Rc3 31. Ra1 Qc4 32. Bd1 Rb4 33. Rab1 Kg7
34. Rc2 Qd3 35. Rxc3 Qxc3 36. Bc2 f6 37. h4 h6 38. Kh2 g5 39. Bxb3 Rxb3 40.
Qxa4 Rxb1 41. Qd7+ Kg6 42. g4 gxh4 1/2-1/2

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Grischuk - Kramnik rapid 2. Again Grischuk makes no real attempt to get anything with white against Kramnik.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 Nbd7 7. c5 Nh5 8. b4
Nxf4 9. exf4 c6 10. Bd3 b6 11. O-O a5 12. a3 Qc7 13. g3 Ba6 14. Bxa6 1/2-1/2

Wake us when the blitz is on?

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2011, 11:07 PM
Kamsky - Gelfand. Even a massive double blunder cannot produce a result!

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nf3 Be7 8. Bc4
O-O 9. O-O Be6 10. Bb3 Nc6 11. Qe2 Na5 12. Rfd1 Qc7 13. Bg5 Rac8 14. Bxf6 Bxf6
15. Rac1 Nxb3 16. axb3 Qc6 17. Nd5 Bd8 18. c4 f5 19. exf5?? Bxf5?? (19...
Bxd5 {wins a piece since} 20. cxd5 Qxc1 21. Rxc1 Rxc1+ 22. Ne1 Ba5) 20. h3 Qe8
21. Rc3 Qg6 22. Nh2 Bh4 23. Nf3 Bd8 24. Kh2 Kh8 25. b4 Be6 26. Re3 Qf7 27. b3
b5 28. Kh1 Qb7 29. Re4 Bf5 30. Re3 Be6 31. Re4 Bf5 32. Re3 1/2-1/2

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 12:06 AM
Another blunder in Gelfand - Kamsky but this time Boris does not get away with it (16.a3?? c4 threatening Nc5!)

1. c4 g6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. g3 Bg7 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O c5 8.
Qa4 Nb4 9. d3 Bd7 10. Qd1 Bc6 11. Be3 Nd7 12. Rc1 Rc8 13. Qb3 e6 14. Rfd1 a5
15. Bg5 Qe8 16. a3 c4 17. Qxc4 Bxf3 18. Bxf3 Rxc4 19. dxc4 Nc6 20. Nb5 Nc5 21.
b4 axb4 22. axb4 Nxb4 23. Rb1 Nba6 24. Nd6 Qa4 25. Nxb7 Nxb7 26. Bxb7 Qxc4 27.
Bf3 h6 28. Be3 Nb4 29. Rbc1 Nc2 30. Ba7 Qa4 31. Bb6 Nd4 32. Bxd4 Bxd4 33. Rd3
Bf6 34. Rc7 Rd8 0-1

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 12:26 AM
Kramnik - Grischuk. More tough stuff from Grischuk who saves another unpleasant endgame.

1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 e5 4. e3 Nf6 5. d4 e4 6. Ne5 g6 7. Rb1 h5 8. Be2 Qe7
9. b3 cxd4 10. exd4 d6 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Bg5 Bf5 13. O-O Bh6 14. Bxh6 Rxh6 15.
Qc1 Rh8 16. Qf4 Kf8 17. b4 Kg7 18. Rb3 h4 19. h3 Rae8 20. b5 c5 21. Qe3 Rd8 22.
a4 d5 23. cxd5 Nxd5 24. Nxd5 Rxd5 25. dxc5 Qxc5 26. a5 Qxe3 27. fxe3 Rb8 28.
Rc1 a6 29. Rcb1 Be6 30. Rb4 axb5 31. Rxb5 Rbxb5 32. Bxb5 Rd2 33. Ra1 Bd5 34. a6
Rb2 35. Bf1 Kf6 36. Ra5 Rd2 37. Rc5 Ke6 38. Ra5 Kd6 39. Bc4 Rd1+ 40. Kh2 Ba8
41. Bxf7 Rd3 42. a7 Kc7 43. Rb5 Bb7 44. Ra5 Ba8 45. Re5 Kb6 46. Re7 g5 47. Bg6
Rxe3 48. Kg1 Ra3 49. Bxe4 Bxe4 50. Rxe4 Kxa7 51. Kf2 Kb6 52. Re5 g4 53. hxg4
Rg3 54. Re4 Kc5 55. g5 Rxg5 56. Rxh4 Kd5 57. Rf4 Ke5 58. Rf8 Ke6 59. Rf3 Ke5
60. Rf7 Ke6 61. Rf8 Ke5 62. Kg1 Rf5 63. Rxf5+ Kxf5 64. Kf1 Kf4 65. Kf2 Kg4
1/2-1/2

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 12:49 AM
As usual Grischuk exerted himself most vigorously with the white pieces

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 Nbd7 7. c5 Nh5 8. Bd3
1/2-1/2

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 01:46 AM
Gelfand wins with black (not much sign of first move advantage with these guys) and stays in the match.

Kamsky-Gelfand

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qb6 5. Nb3 Nf6 6. Nc3 e6 7. Bd3 Be7 8.
O-O O-O 9. a4 d6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. f4 b6 12. Qf3 Bb7 13. Nb5 Qb8 14. c3 e5 15. f5
a6 16. Na3 d5 17. Nd2 Qd8 18. Bf2 d4 19. Qe2 Re8 20. Nb3 Nd7 21. Kh1 Bxa3 22.
Rxa3 Nc5 23. Bc4 Na5 24. Nxa5 bxa5 25. Qh5 Qc7 26. Bd5 Bxd5 27. exd5 Ne4 28.
Bg1 Qc4 29. Raa1 Qxd5 30. Rad1 d3 31. Qf3 Rad8 32. Rfe1 Nf6 33. Qxd5 Rxd5 34.
c4 Rd7 35. Bb6 e4 36. c5 Rc8 37. h3 h5 38. Kg1 h4 39. Bxa5 Rxc5 40. Bc3 Rc4 41.
Bxf6 gxf6 42. b3 Rb4 43. Kf2 Rd5 44. Ke3 Rxf5 45. Rc1 Rg5 46. Rc4 Rxc4 47. bxc4
Rxg2 48. c5 Re2+ 49. Rxe2 dxe2 50. Kxe2 Kf8 0-1

Max Illingworth
17-05-2011, 01:56 AM
How many games has White won in the classical and rapid matches so far?

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 02:01 AM
How many games has White won in the classical and rapid matches so far?

Zero and one respectively I think.

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 02:21 AM
The Gs win blitz 1 with black and the Ks must do likewise or be eliminated

Kamsky - Gelfand

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 e6 4. c3 b6 5. Nf3 Bb7 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. Bd3 cxd4 8.
cxd4 Nc6 9. a3 Nh5 10. Bg3 O-O 11. Ne5 g6 12. Nxc6 dxc6 13. Be4 Qd7 14. Nc4 c5
15. Ne5 Qc8 16. Bxb7 Qxb7 17. O-O Rfd8 18. Qf3 Qxf3 19. Nxf3 Nxg3 20. hxg3 Bf6
21. dxc5 bxc5 22. Rab1 Rab8 23. Rfc1 Rxb2 24. Rxb2 Bxb2 25. Rxc5 Rd1+ 26. Kh2
Rd5 27. Rxd5 exd5 28. a4 Kf8 29. Ne1 Ke7 30. Nd3 Bc3 31. g4 Kd6 32. Kg3 Kc6 33.
Kf3 Kb6 34. Nf4 Ka5 35. Nxd5 Bg7 36. Ne7 Kxa4 37. Nc6 a5 38. Ke4 Kb5 39. Nxa5
Kxa5 40. Kd5 g5 41. Kd6 Bc3 42. Ke7 f6 43. f4 Kb5 44. Kf7 Kc4 45. Kg7 Kd3 46.
Kh6 gxf4 47. exf4 Ke4 48. g3 Kf3 49. g5 f5 50. Kxh7 Kxg3 0-1

Kramnik - Grischuk

1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. e4 g6 7. Be2 Bg7 8. Be3
O-O 9. O-O Bd7 10. Qd2 Nxd4 11. Bxd4 Bc6 12. Bd3 a5 13. Rfe1 a4 14. Nd5 Nd7 15.
Bxg7 Kxg7 16. Re3 e5 17. Rh3 h5 18. Ne3 Rh8 19. Rg3 Nc5 20. Rd1 h4 21. Rh3 Bxe4
22. Bf1 Bc6 23. Nd5 Bxd5 24. Qxd5 Ra6 25. Re3 Qf6 26. b4 axb3 27. axb3 Rb6 28.
h3 Rxb3 29. Rxb3 Nxb3 30. Qxd6 Qxd6 31. Rxd6 Rc8 32. Rd5 Kf6 33. Rd6+ Ke7 34.
Rb6 Nc5 35. g3 hxg3 36. fxg3 Rc6 37. Rb5 f5 38. Kf2 b6 39. Ke3 Rd6 40. h4 Kf6
41. Be2 g5 42. hxg5+ Kxg5 43. Kf3 Rh6 44. Rb1 Ne6 45. Kg2 Nd4 46. Bd1 Rc6 47.
Rb5 Nxb5 0-1

Max Illingworth
17-05-2011, 02:38 AM
The final match will be between Grischuk and Gelfand.

Tony Dowden
17-05-2011, 08:31 AM
The final match will be between Grischuk and Gelfand.

Logically Grischuk will be aiming to deal out another dose of rope-a-dope death-by-draw in the classical and rapid and try and clinch it in the blitz :rolleyes:

Gelfand will be trying to play his usual brand of positional power-play allied to excellent openings prep but needs to start spot winning shots.

:hmm: I think Grischuk has to be favourite to play Anand for the title - even though his approach against Kramnik wasn't pretty. He is a virtuoso positional player (generally underestimated in this regard because he hasn't often headed the pack like, say, Topalov or Carlsen) and his relative youth has to count in a punishing event like this. Both G's chew through the time but Gelfand has looked shakier running into the move 40 time control.

Capablanca-Fan
17-05-2011, 01:21 PM
Kamsky - Gelfand

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 e6 4. c3 b6 5. Nf3 Bb7 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. Bd3 cxd4 8.
cxd4 Nc6 9. a3 Nh5 10. Bg3 O-O 11. Ne5 g6 12. Nxc6 dxc6 13. Be4 Qd7 14. Nc4 c5
15. Ne5 Qc8 16. Bxb7 Qxb7 17. O-O Rfd8 18. Qf3 Qxf3 19. Nxf3 Nxg3 20. hxg3 Bf6
21. dxc5 bxc5 22. Rab1 Rab8 23. Rfc1 Rxb2 24. Rxb2 Bxb2 25. Rxc5 Rd1+ 26. Kh2
Rd5 27. Rxd5 exd5 28. a4 Kf8 29. Ne1 Ke7 30. Nd3 Bc3 31. g4 Kd6 32. Kg3 Kc6 33.
Kf3 Kb6 34. Nf4 Ka5 35. Nxd5 Bg7 36. Ne7 Kxa4 37. Nc6 a5 38. Ke4 Kb5 39. Nxa5
Kxa5 40. Kd5 g5 41. Kd6 Bc3 42. Ke7 f6 43. f4 Kb5 44. Kf7 Kc4 45. Kg7 Kd3 46.
Kh6 gxf4 47. exf4 Ke4 48. g3 Kf3 49. g5 f5 50. Kxh7 Kxg3 0-1

Kramnik - Grischuk

1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. e4 g6 7. Be2 Bg7 8. Be3
O-O 9. O-O Bd7 10. Qd2 Nxd4 11. Bxd4 Bc6 12. Bd3 a5 13. Rfe1 a4 14. Nd5 Nd7 15.
Bxg7 Kxg7 16. Re3 e5 17. Rh3 h5 18. Ne3 Rh8 19. Rg3 Nc5 20. Rd1 h4 21. Rh3 Bxe4
22. Bf1 Bc6 23. Nd5 Bxd5 24. Qxd5 Ra6 25. Re3 Qf6 26. b4 axb3 27. axb3 Rb6 28.
h3 Rxb3 29. Rxb3 Nxb3 30. Qxd6 Qxd6 31. Rxd6 Rc8 32. Rd5 Kf6 33. Rd6+ Ke7 34.
Rb6 Nc5 35. g3 hxg3 36. fxg3 Rc6 37. Rb5 f5 38. Kf2 b6 39. Ke3 Rd6 40. h4 Kf6
41. Be2 g5 42. hxg5+ Kxg5 43. Kf3 Rh6 44. Rb1 Ne6 45. Kg2 Nd4 46. Bd1 Rc6 47.
Rb5 Nxb5 0-1
Not very impressive games on the part of White. Kamsky played a boring opening; Gelfand's 12... dxc6 was unexpected and seemed to be =/+. An open board with N v B is often hard to defend because it's hard to stop the K. Kramnik probably had the usual +/=, then tied his R up with an attack that got no where, gave up his Pe4 for no compensation, then put the exchange en pris in a likely lost position.

Qbert
17-05-2011, 02:04 PM
Logically Grischuk will be aiming to deal out another dose of rope-a-dope death-by-draw in the classical and rapid and try and clinch it in the blitz :rolleyes:
I liked Mig Greengard's tweet: "On Grischuk the poker player's chess strategy: RT Yannick Pelletier: Check-fold the white games, go all-in with black!" (Daily Dirt (http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/)). I think it is a brilliant response to the likes of Kramnik's well-worn 'secure the draw with Black and risklessly press in += with White' strategy. He saves energy in half the games as K doesn't bother trying to win with Black and causes discomfort if K has to take risks to win with White, since the short match doesn't allow a comeback from a defeat. As a result he seems to have made every match a 50-50 coin toss, which can't be worse odds than he started with. ;)

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 02:33 PM
Tipping scores from round 2:

2/2 JaK, Shirty
1/2 Bollard, Boris, Brian_Jones, Garvinator, The Bennett, TheRealDeal, HeartBreak Kid, Jesper Norgaard, Scott Colliver, Skulte, Tony Dowden, Viewed, "All upsets" default option
0/2 Adamski, Garrett, Jono, Metro, Qbert

Standings of those who tipped in both rounds
5 Shirty
4 TheRealDeal
3 Jesper, Bollard, Garvinator, Scott, JaK
2 Adamski, Viewed
1 Garrett, Boris, Skulte

All upsets dummy variable is on 4.

For the final match I reckon 1 point for tipping the winner and 2 for the margin.

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 02:44 PM
These were the final blitz games

Grischuk,Alexander (2747) - Kramnik,Vladimir (2785) [B06]
WCh Candidates - Blitz Kazan RUS (2.10), 16.05.2011
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 a6 4.Be3 b5 5.h4 h5 6.Nh3 Bb7 7.Ng5 d6 8.Bd3 Nd7 9.a4 c6 10.Ne2 e5 11.axb5 cxb5 12.c4 Ngf6 13.cxb5 axb5 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.dxe5 dxe5 16.0-0 Bc6 17.Qb3 0-0 18.f3 Qb7 19.Rc1 Nb8 20.Nc3 Nh7 21.Bxb5 Nxg5 22.hxg5 Rd8 23.Bc4 Qc7 24.Nd5 Qd7 25.Rd1 Qe8 26.Nf6+ Bxf6 27.gxf6 Nd7 28.Rd6 Rc8 29.Qd3 Nf8 30.b3 Bd7 31.Bh6 Be6 32.Bxf8 Bxc4 33.bxc4 Qxf8 34.c5 Kh7 35.c6 Qh6 36.Qd2 Qxd2 37.Rxd2 Rxc6 38.Rd7 Rxf6 39.Re7 Kh6 40.Rxe5 g5 41.Kh2 Kg6 42.Ra5 Rd6 43.Kg3 Rc6 44.Rb5 f6 45.Ra5 Rc1 46.Kh2 Re1 47.Rb5 g4 48.Kg3 gxf3 49.gxf3 Re3 50.Rf5 1/2-1/2.

Gelfand,Boris (2733) - Kamsky,Gata (2732) [A04]
WCh Candidates - Blitz Kazan RUS (2.10), 16.05.2011
1.Nf3 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 g6 4.0-0 Bg7 5.d4 0-0 6.b3 e6 7.Bb2 h6 8.c4 d6 9.Nbd2 g5 10.Qc2 Nc6 11.e4 g4 12.Nh4 f4 13.e5 f3 14.Bxf3 gxf3 15.exf6 Qxf6 16.Ndxf3 Bd7 17.Rae1 Be8 18.Re3 Bh5 19.Rfe1 Rae8 20.Bc3 Nd8 21.d5 e5 22.Rf1 Nf7 23.Nd2 Qd8 24.Ng6 Bxg6 25.Qxg6 Ng5 26.Ne4 Nf3+ 27.Kg2 Nd4 28.Bd2 Kh8 29.Rd3 Nf5 30.Rf3 Qd7 31.Qh5 Kg8 32.Kh1 b5 33.g4 Nd4 34.Rxf8+ Rxf8 35.Bxh6 bxc4 36.bxc4 Nf3 37.Qg6 Nh4 38.Qxg7+ Qxg7 39.Bxg7 Kxg7 40.Ng5 Rb8 41.Ne6+ Kg6 42.Nxc7 Rc8 43.Nb5 Rxc4 44.Nxd6 Rc2 45.Nf5 Nf3 46.Kg2 e4 47.Rd1 Ne5 48.d6 Nd7 49.Rd4 Rxa2 50.Rxe4 Rd2 51.h4 a5 52.Re6+ Nf6 53.g5 Kxf5 54.Rxf6+ Ke5 55.h5 a4 56.h6 1-0.

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 03:12 PM
According to what I could find, Grischuk leads Gelfand +4=11-3 in normal time games, +1=6 in rapid, +5=2-1 in blitz.

The two played a mini-match in the 2005 World Cup won by Grischuk in blitz tiebreak.

I wonder who is laughing more about what is going on: Anand or Carlsen?

Max Illingworth
17-05-2011, 04:13 PM
According to what I could find, Grischuk leads Gelfand +4=11-3 in normal time games, +1=6 in rapid, +5=2-1 in blitz.

The two played a mini-match in the 2005 World Cup won by Grischuk in blitz tiebreak.

I wonder who is laughing more about what is going on: Anand or Carlsen?

Surely Anand is as the only players who had genuine chances of beating him in a World Championship Match (Aronian, Kramnik, Topalov) have all been eliminated.

that Caesar guy
17-05-2011, 04:17 PM
Surely Anand is as the only players who had genuine chances of beating him in a World Championship Match (Aronian, Kramnik, Topalov) have all been eliminated.
So...why aren't the people who beat the people capable of beating Anand capable of beating Anand as well? Once you figure out what I just said, you can answer :P

ER
17-05-2011, 06:24 PM
So...why aren't the people who beat the people capable of beating Anand capable of beating Anand as well? Once you figure out what I just said, you can answer :P

:doh: hmmm maybe cause Anand isn't capable to lose to people who beat people capable of beating him in the first place??? :P

Garrett
17-05-2011, 06:27 PM
"Grishcuk 4-0"

love this option !! :D

Garrett
17-05-2011, 06:30 PM
On a more serious note, if Gelfand wins through .....

That would mean someone in their 40's wins a World Championship match, how long is it since someone in their 40's (apart from Anand if he was 40 already last time) won a World Championship match ?

Also, how long has it been since the aggregate age of a World Championship match would be more than Anand and Gelfand ? Possibly Botvinnik Vs Petrosian?

Have a guess before going to look. I could look it up but not bothered at the moment ....

ER
17-05-2011, 06:46 PM
On a more serious note, if Gelfand wins through .....

That would mean someone in their 40's wins a World Championship match, how long is it since someone in their 40's (apart from Anand if he was 40 already last time) won a World Championship match ?

Also, how long has it been since the aggregate age of a World Championship match would be more than Anand and Gelfand ? Possibly Botvinnik Vs Petrosian?

Have a guess before going to look. I could look it up but not bothered at the moment ....

Interesting one; however, since we are talking about aggregate and not average, I would go for Dr E. Lasker vs HR Capablanca!
And if we take into account the 1992 encounter, I think Boris vs Bobby is a candidate as well! :P

Oepty
17-05-2011, 07:26 PM
Interesting one; however, since we are talking about aggregate and not average, I would go for Dr E. Lasker vs HR Capablanca!
And if we take into account the 1992 encounter, I think Boris vs Bobby is a candidate as well! :P

First World championship 1886 Stienitz 50 - Zukertort 44 =94
Fourth World Championship 1892 Stienitz 56 - Chigorin 42 =98
Scott

that Caesar guy
17-05-2011, 07:43 PM
:doh: hmmm maybe cause Anand isn't capable to lose to people who beat people capable of beating him in the first place??? :P
Why is this the case? If one can beat player A, and player A is just as good as player B, you should be able to beat player B too...

Denis_Jessop
17-05-2011, 08:15 PM
Why is this the case? If one can beat player A, and player A is just as good as player B, you should be able to beat player B too...

Isn't this a variation on the old fallacy that if A beats B and B beats C then A should beat C?

DJ

PS Or, if Arsenal beats Man U and Man U beats Chelsea then Arsenal should beat Chelsea?

that Caesar guy
17-05-2011, 08:21 PM
Isn't this a variation on the old fallacy that if A beats B and B beats C then A should beat C?

DJ

PS Or, if Arsenal beats Man U and Man U beats Chelsea then Arsenal should beat Chelsea?
Yes, but a quite different one. The difference in class between Anand and Grischuk and Gelfand is, in my opinion, extremely slight. All it would take is a couple of bad games by Anand and he would definitely lose. While I think Anand would be favorite, it would be extremely close and I certainly dont think Aronian, Kramnik and Topalov were the 'only people who could beat him'.

And the above situation is completely ridiculous. Arsenal couldn't beat anybody ;)

ER
17-05-2011, 08:26 PM
Why is this the case? If one can beat player A, and player A is just as good as player B, you should be able to beat player B too...

Almost hypothetical! For every "why" for statements beginning with "maybe" there is a "why not"!

Kevin Bonham
17-05-2011, 08:46 PM
(apart from Anand if he was 40 already last time)

Which he was. I'm thinking the last to win a unified WC match over age 40 would be Botvinnik. Karpov after the split doesn't count.

lost
18-05-2011, 12:27 AM
I would like to see Gelfand win as it would be great for Israel and it will be newsworthy and put chess in the spotlight for many reasons.

As people know, Israel is in the spotlight because of its political tensions with many nations in surrounding areas, having a World Champ from there would be great for the nation.

Also, people that do know me (JaK, Leonid Sandler) will know that I have a vested interest in foreign affairs. This match I will be watching very closely and keeping tabs on this to a tee.

lost

Garvinator
18-05-2011, 12:45 AM
If Gelfand wins then Kirsan will see it is more vindication of the World Cup tournament :rolleyes:

Rhubarb
18-05-2011, 01:47 AM
Tipping scores from round 2:

2/2 JaK, Shirty
1/2 Bollard, Boris, Brian_Jones, Garvinator, The Bennett, TheRealDeal, HeartBreak Kid, Jesper Norgaard, Scott Colliver, Skulte, Tony Dowden, Viewed, "All upsets" default option
0/2 Adamski, Garrett, Jono, Metro, Qbert

Standings of those who tipped in both rounds
5 Shirty
4 TheRealDeal
3 Jesper, Bollard, Garvinator, Scott, JaK
2 Adamski, Viewed
1 Garrett, Boris, Skulte

All upsets dummy variable is on 4.

For the final match I reckon 1 point for tipping the winner and 2 for the margin.

Rather than copy TheRealDeal's tip of a 3.5-2.5 win to Grischuk in the final, which would almost guarantee the win for myself :), I have, in a fit of generosity, backed my old mate Gelfo to go all the way, thus allowing TRD (and others) a chance to leapfrog me at the death. :)

Lekko
18-05-2011, 02:39 AM
Grischuks going all the way!

Desmond
18-05-2011, 10:21 AM
Is this one a 6-game match?

ER
18-05-2011, 11:38 AM
Is this one a 6-game match?

4 game match! ;)

Garvinator
18-05-2011, 11:56 AM
4 game match! ;)
huh

Kevin Bonham
18-05-2011, 12:54 PM
The final is a 6-game match. The reason the first two poll options add to 4 is that if the match was that lopsided it would be over in 4 games.

ER
18-05-2011, 02:44 PM
huh
If it goes to 4-0 what's the use of 6?

Rhubarb
18-05-2011, 04:11 PM
The final is a 6-game match. The reason the first two poll options add to 4 is that if the match was that lopsided it would be over in 4 games.
Of course you laid out the options just so (some of us appreciate it).

What of course is missing is any kind of intelligent odds, and from the binomial distribution alone, anyone who didn't go for the 3-3 option (and then choose) is still gonna get taken down by mate Bob Gelfand :cool:.

ER
18-05-2011, 04:20 PM
A real chance for more participants to catch up with the correct predictions would be to have the 3 all as an independent possible outcome.
Then we could vote again for the tiebreakers.
Having said that, I understand that this arrangement would require the presence of many paprticipants here during the break between the
"normal" games and the tiebreakers!
On the other hand, that break will be a day's break, so is it maybe enough time to do something about it?

Adamski
19-05-2011, 07:49 AM
I would like to see Gelfand win as it would be great for Israel and it will be newsworthy and put chess in the spotlight for many reasons.

As people know, Israel is in the spotlight because of its political tensions with many nations in surrounding areas, having a World Champ from there would be great for the nation.

Also, people that do know me (JaK, Leonid Sandler) will know that I have a vested interest in foreign affairs. This match I will be watching very closely and keeping tabs on this to a tee.

lostLike.

ER
19-05-2011, 12:15 PM
... Also, people that do know me (JaK, Leonid Sandler) will know that I have a vested interest in foreign affairs. This match I will be watching very closely and keeping tabs on this to a tee.

lost

Also Lost with his participation in prominent international events is becoming a very popular young ambassador for Australian Chess! :clap:

Kevin Bonham
19-05-2011, 08:00 PM
Anyone know the colours for tonight's draw?

Garvinator
19-05-2011, 08:45 PM
Anyone know the colours for tonight's draw?Grischuk is showing as white in the live games display.

Oepty
19-05-2011, 08:48 PM
Anyone know the colours for tonight's draw?

Kevin, isn't it a little pesimistic to write off tonight as being a draw before a piece is moved
Scott

Kevin Bonham
19-05-2011, 08:58 PM
Kevin, isn't it a little pesimistic to write off tonight as being a draw before a piece is moved

I was being flippant. Empirical evidence indicates that the chance of a draw is no more than 91.7%. :lol:

Denis_Jessop
19-05-2011, 09:28 PM
I was being flippant. Empirical evidence indicates that the chance of a draw is no more than 91.7%. :lol:

What's wrong with a draw anyway? When you are playing for sheep stations, half a loaf is better than no bread. :hmm: :hmm:

Oepty
19-05-2011, 09:38 PM
What's wrong with a draw anyway? When you are playing for sheep stations, half a loaf is better than no bread. :hmm: :hmm:

Half a loaf don't feed many sheep

Kevin Bonham
19-05-2011, 09:51 PM
Records of the two players against Anand according to chesslive.de database:

Gelfand
Normal +0=14-3
Rapid +1=12-4
Blitz +0=2-2

Grischuk
Normal +1=10-5
Rapid +0=2-2
Blitz +2=2-1

Oepty
19-05-2011, 10:33 PM
Records of the two players against Anand according to chesslive.de database:

Gelfand
Normal +0=14-3
Rapid +1=12-4
Blitz +0=2-2

Grischuk
Normal +1=10-5
Rapid +0=2-2
Blitz +2=2-1

I looked on 365chess.com and it has a lot more games, I think 365chess.com is the biggest online database. For Gelfand I get something like +5 =22 -5 in normal but his wins all come prior to 1993. Gelfand had +5=3 from their first 8 games and doesn't seem to have beaten him since then.
Scott

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2011, 01:41 AM
Game 1 drawn. Well played by both players. White had some edge but could not make anything of it.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. Rc1 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. e3
Nc6 9. a3 d4 10. exd4 Nxd4 11. b4 Nxf3+ 12. Qxf3 Bd4 13. Nb5 e5 14. Bg5 Re8 15.
Bxf6 e4 16. Bxd8 exf3+ 17. Kd2 Rxd8 18. Nxd4 Rxd4+ 19. Kc3 fxg2 20. Bxg2 Rg4
21. Rhd1 Be6 22. Bxb7 Rxc4+ 23. Kb2 Rxc1 24. Rxc1 Rd8 25. Kc3 Kf8 26. b5 Ke7
27. a4 Rd6 28. a5 Kd8 29. b6 Bc8 30. Bxc8 Kxc8 31. Kb4+ Kb8 32. bxa7+ Ka8 33.
Rc8+ Kxa7 34. Rc7+ Ka6 35. Rxf7 Rg6 36. h3 Rg2 37. f4 Rg3 38. f5 h5 39. h4 Rg4+
40. Kc5 Rxh4 41. Rxg7 Rf4 42. Rg6+ Kxa5 43. Rg5 h4 44. Rh5 h3 45. Kd6 h2 46.
f6+ Kb6 47. Ke6 Rf2 48. f7 Re2+ 49. Kf6 1/2-1/2

Adamski
20-05-2011, 06:36 AM
To save me looking it,up - who was White - Gr or Ge?

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2011, 10:49 AM
Grischuk was white in game 1.

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2011, 10:16 PM
Anyone have any info on who the players have as seconds and other assistants for this match?

ER
20-05-2011, 10:51 PM
■Boris Gelfand has Alexander Huzman and Maxim Rodshtein
■Alexander Grischuk has Alexander Riazantsev, Peter Svidler and Etienne Bacrot


as for the others
■Gata Kamsky had Emil Sutovsky and Andrei Volokitin
■Veselin Topalov had Ivan Cheparinov and Erwin L'Ami
■Levon Aronian had Gabriel Sargissian and Sergei Movsesian
■Vladimir Kramnik had Sergey Karjakin and Zahar Efimenko
■Teimour Radjabov had his father Boris Radjabov but unknown technical seconds
■Shahriyar Mamedyarov had Elizbar Ubilava and Rauf Mamedov

Adamski
21-05-2011, 12:03 AM
Grischuk wins the battle of the seconds with Gelfand, FWIW.

ER
21-05-2011, 12:55 AM
Grischuk wins the battle of the seconds with Gelfand, FWIW.

Svidler loves cricket too! :lol:

Kevin Bonham
21-05-2011, 02:59 AM
Gelfand - Grischuk. Game 2. Looked like excellent preparation by both players as up to about move 20 was played relatively quickly given the complexity of the position. The immediate capture on 22 may have been inferior to 22.Qc4. Black soon became better but it never looked that easy to press for a win. 37...a5 in time trouble appeared dubious; ...Rb3 and black ends up with the straight two pieces for the rook.

Immediately after the time control Gelfand played 41.R5c4 rather quickly and seemed to get himself in a bit of trouble. However after 44...Be6 he found what seems to be a forced drawing line. 44...a3 or 44...Re2+ were more difficult to deal with (at least).

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.a3 Nge7 7.b4 d5 8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Ng5 Nc7 10.d3 cxb4 11.axb4 e4 12.Ngxe4 f5 13.Bg5 Bxc3+ 14.Kf1 Qd4 15.Nxc3 Qxc3 16.Bf4 Nb5 17.Rc1 Qf6 18.Rc5 a6 19.Bxc6+ bxc6 20.Be5 Qf8 21.Qc1 Bd7 22.Bxh8 Qxh8 23.Qe3+ Kf7 24.Re5 Qf8 25.h4 h5 26.Qf4 Qd6 27.Kg2 Kf6 28.Re4 Qxf4 29.Rxf4 Be6 30.Rc1 Ke7 31.f3 Kd6 32.Kf2 Rb8 33.e4 Nc7 34.g4 fxg4 35.Rf6 gxf3 36.Rxg6 Rxb4 37.Rh6 a5 38.Rxh5 a4 39.Rhc5 Bd7 40.Kxf3 Ne6 41.R5c4 c5 42.h5 Rb2 43.Rh1 Nd4+ 44.Ke3 Be6 45.e5+ Kxe5 46.Rxc5+ Bd5 47.Rxd5+ Kxd5 48.h6 Re2+ 49.Kf4 Ne6+ 50.Kg3 Nf8 51.h7 Nxh7 52.Rxh7 a3 53.Kf3 Re1 54.Ra7 Ra1 55.Ke3 a2 56.Ra5+ Kc6 57.Kd4 Kb6 58.Ra8 Kb7 ˝-˝

lost
21-05-2011, 03:49 AM
Like.

How do you want me to respond to this answer Adamski? I need you to clarify what you would like me to answer?

lost

lost
21-05-2011, 03:51 AM
Also Lost with his participation in prominent international events is becoming a very popular young ambassador for Australian Chess! :clap:

JaK,

Thanks for your kind words once again. As for been an ambassador, I am just trying to get some publicity for this great sport in this great nation of ours. There is some further developments to come in the future for Australian Chess.

lost

Kevin Bonham
21-05-2011, 01:05 PM
How do you want me to respond to this answer Adamski? I need you to clarify what you would like me to answer?

I think he is just saying he liked your post, along the lines of the "like" function on certain social networking sites.

lost
21-05-2011, 11:09 PM
I think he is just saying he liked your post, along the lines of the "like" function on certain social networking sites.

That clarifies things.

lost

Garvinator
21-05-2011, 11:27 PM
At what point can I start ranting about this game. What crap!

Kevin Bonham
21-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Gelfand sprang a novelty on Grischuk with the pawn sac 9...b5 and Grischuk seemed unprepared for it and spent almost 50 minutes before deciding to take it. It seems that the sac is sufficient for equality if not a little more. Unfortunately an early draw was agreed.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.Qb3 dxc4 8.Qxc4 0-0 9.g3 b5 10.Qxb5 Nd7 11.Bg2 c5 12.0-0 Rb8 13.Qa4 a5 14.dxc5 ˝-˝

Adamski
21-05-2011, 11:35 PM
How do you want me to respond to this answer Adamski? I need you to clarify what you would like me to answer?

lost
As Kevin intimated, Like a Facebook "Like" it just means that I liked your post, lost:

"I would like to see Gelfand win as it would be great for Israel and it will be newsworthy and put chess in the spotlight for many reasons.

As people know, Israel is in the spotlight because of its political tensions with many nations in surrounding areas, having a World Champ from there would be great for the nation.

Also, people that do know me (JaK, Leonid Sandler) will know that I have a vested interest in foreign affairs. This match I will be watching very closely and keeping tabs on this to a tee."

Kevin Bonham
22-05-2011, 05:15 PM
Rest day today. (After yesterday they should forfeit it and be required to play 100 bullet instead. :lol: )

Desmond
22-05-2011, 06:44 PM
Gelfand sprang a novelty on Grischuk with the pawn sac 9...b5 and Grischuk seemed unprepared for it and spent almost 50 minutes before deciding to take it. It seems that the sac is sufficient for equality if not a little more. Unfortunately an early draw was agreed.
Yeah that was pretty soft. I'd be surprised if he hadn't considered the ...b5 sac though as it is rather thematic in similar Nimzo- and Queen's Indian positions.

Garvinator
22-05-2011, 07:29 PM
Has game 4 been drawn yet?

ER
22-05-2011, 09:45 PM
Has game 4 been drawn yet?

If they managed to have another draw in the rest day it means they may be given another rest day tomorrow! ;)

Oepty
22-05-2011, 10:53 PM
If they managed to have another draw in the rest day it means they may be given another rest day tomorrow! ;)

If they agreed to a draw on the rest day the arbiter might have a few questions and they might be given the rest of the match off.

Kevin Bonham
22-05-2011, 11:11 PM
I wonder if a match game has ever been declared a double forfeit.

Garvinator
23-05-2011, 08:57 PM
Game 4 starts in 5 mins, so should be over inside the 1st hour :lol:

Garvinator
23-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Game just started. I wonder if they are now employing a 30 minute broadcast delay, or if there was another delay of some sort :hmm:

Kevin Bonham
23-05-2011, 10:18 PM
Game just started. I wonder if they are now employing a 30 minute broadcast delay, or if there was another delay of some sort :hmm:

The latter. The game started half an hour late to accommodate another function in the hotel.

ER
23-05-2011, 10:38 PM
The latter. The game started half an hour late to accommodate another function in the hotel.
Hehe in the old USSR, a function co-insiding with a candidates match in the same venue would be safely held in Siberia! :P

Kevin Bonham
24-05-2011, 12:33 AM
More lameness - this was looking quite interesting on move 15 with white appearing to be better. Then he makes a couple of shallow looking moves and offers a draw. Boring!

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.d3 Nge7 7.a3 d6 8.Nd2 0-0 9.Rb1 h6 10.0-0 a5 11.Nd5 Be6 12.Nxe7+ Qxe7 13.Ne4 Kh8 14.Nc3 Qd7 15.Bd2 Rab8 16.Qc1 h5 17.Bh6 Bh3 18.Re1 zzz-zzz

Adamski
24-05-2011, 12:36 AM
This match is not good for the reputation of chess. zzzz

lost
24-05-2011, 12:41 AM
As Kevin intimated, Like a Facebook "Like" it just means that I liked your post, lost:

"I would like to see Gelfand win as it would be great for Israel and it will be newsworthy and put chess in the spotlight for many reasons.

As people know, Israel is in the spotlight because of its political tensions with many nations in surrounding areas, having a World Champ from there would be great for the nation.

Also, people that do know me (JaK, Leonid Sandler) will know that I have a vested interest in foreign affairs. This match I will be watching very closely and keeping tabs on this to a tee."

All cool Adamski.

lost

Garvinator
24-05-2011, 12:46 AM
I recall quite a few posters claiming that it was the four game matches that were the cause of all the short and boring draws.

I disagreed with that conclusion and I now offer this match as more evidence of my conclusions. These games have occurred either side of the rest day, so fatigue could only be a small issue, but it would be similar for either player.

I really am starting to come to the opinion that draw offers should be banned completely. While I understand that this will mean some players will play repeat moves to get around it, it has to be better than this crap.

What other sport allows competitors to agree a draw whenever they feel like it? If you think this is a pet hate of mine in chess, you are right.

Kevin Bonham
24-05-2011, 01:37 AM
I recall quite a few posters claiming that it was the four game matches that were the cause of all the short and boring draws.

I disagreed with that conclusion and I now offer this match as more evidence of my conclusions.

Six games isn't that much better. The first two games were proper games, then they were at 1-1 so basically back to a 4-game match scenario again. Then the premature draw agreements started.

I think a big part of the problem though is not just the shortness of the classical matches but also that 2-2 (or in this case 3-3) keeps both players alive with equal chances into the rapid and blitz. If the classical games could be played in some way that gave one player draw odds so someone had to win to progress then that would liven things up.

I saw a joke somewhere (possibly by Viewed?) that they should play the match in reverse order. I think this is actually quite a viable concept. Play the rapid and blitz tiebreak first and the winner of that tiebreak gets draw odds for the classical match. That would force the loser of the tiebreak to play sharply in the classical.

Oepty
24-05-2011, 02:00 AM
Six games isn't that much better. The first two games were proper games, then they were at 1-1 so basically back to a 4-game match scenario again. Then the premature draw agreements started.

I think a big part of the problem though is not just the shortness of the classical matches but also that 2-2 (or in this case 3-3) keeps both players alive with equal chances into the rapid and blitz. If the classical games could be played in some way that gave one player draw odds so someone had to win to progress then that would liven things up.

I saw a joke somewhere (possibly by Viewed?) that they should play the match in reverse order. I think this is actually quite a viable concept. Play the rapid and blitz tiebreak first and the winner of that tiebreak gets draw odds for the classical match. That would force the loser of the tiebreak to play sharply in the classical.

Playing the match in reverse, a wierd wacky idea that might be crazy enough to work
Scott

Garvinator
24-05-2011, 02:15 AM
I saw a joke somewhere (possibly by Viewed?) that they should play the match in reverse order. I think this is actually quite a viable concept. Play the rapid and blitz tiebreak first and the winner of that tiebreak gets draw odds for the classical match. That would force the loser of the tiebreak to play sharply in the classical.The way things are going with the shortness of matches even for the Classical world championship that it might as well be held as blitz, rapid and classical games, all rolled into one match.

So the winner is the person who can score the most amount of points across all three disciplines.

Bollard
24-05-2011, 06:07 AM
It certainly looks as though neither player is prepared to get beyond their opening preparation without an obvious advantage.

In game 3 Gelfand surprised Grischuk with ...b5 but once Grischuk found a reply that didn't totally cripple himself the draw was quickly agreed even though there looked like a lot of play left in the position.

At the moment it's not a chess match, it's a preparation match (or maybe a match between the seconds). Neither player is prepared to back themselves to find something over the board. :evil:

As someone said earlier, Anand must be loving this.

Desmond
24-05-2011, 09:06 AM
I recall quite a few posters claiming that it was the four game matches that were the cause of all the short and boring draws.

I disagreed with that conclusion and I now offer this match as more evidence of my conclusions. These games have occurred either side of the rest day, so fatigue could only be a small issue, but it would be similar for either player.1-1 with 4 games left it pretty much is a 4-game match.

Edit: I see KB made the same point.

Garvinator
24-05-2011, 09:36 AM
From Chessbase:

Finals - Game four

There is little one can say about today’s short draw other than the players repeated the English from round two, Gelfand played a more cautious continuation, and just as things were about to heat up… draw.

We even had a commentator, GM Elshan Moradiabadi, lined up for the game, and though we were going to dispense his services, he beat us to it, “Look, I made up my decision. I am not going to do any commentary on Chessbase unless the games are played under Sofia rules (meaning no quick draws).”

Very unhappy with the last couple of games, he added, “The match is disgusting. I think this is one reason why chess is losing sponsors. Have you ever seen a sports event that ended precisely when the heat was at its highest?” Of course there was little to add to that, and it is not just the sponsors but the fans who are turned off.

Garvinator
24-05-2011, 09:38 AM
And this picture, if you could not see the chessboard so you know the starting position, I do not think you could work out if it was the start of the game, or the end of it. If the game ever really got started that is :eek:

antichrist
24-05-2011, 11:14 AM
Is this the tourney where Ian Rogers says could result in the world champ being decided by a faulty chess clock?

Well only with digital, I have never heard of such problems with the old mechanical

Jesper Norgaard
24-05-2011, 12:55 PM
Playing the match in reverse, a wierd wacky idea that might be crazy enough to work
Scott
What a splendid joke, ahem, suggestion to improve the match system. I like it already! First a good clean fun of blitz games (and possible Armageddon) that oils the machinery. Now that the draw odds have been defined, on to the rapid match, where the winner of blitz already has odds for winning, which will make the loser of blitz want to win the match in rapid, to overwrite draw odds. And now that this most entertaining show has finished, we get to the classical with a clean uneven situation that will naturally make at least one of the players realize he can't just draw all the classical games.

Besides, we are guaranteed that the players work out in all three categories which make each match more interesting to watch. The idea should of course be extended to all matches, even with Anand (or whatever sitting WC). Let those candidates (and WC) sweat it out in the chess gym!

Kevin Bonham
24-05-2011, 02:10 PM
Is this the tourney where Ian Rogers says could result in the world champ being decided by a faulty chess clock?

In theory it could, but it involves a lot of assumptions now that Kramnik is eliminated. You now have to assume at minimum that Radjabov would have drawn his game against Kramnik had the clock not broken (which is very likely) and that Radjabov would have then beaten Grischuk.

Garvinator
24-05-2011, 03:10 PM
I think it is time for a new poll. On what move do you think Game 5 will be drawn on? Voting closes 9pm EST tonight.

Get your votes in. Too many options to add a proper poll, but feel free to post your predictions.

Options:

1) Moves 1-10
2) Please nominate which particular move from Move 11 to 40 you think the draw will be on.
3) Move 41+
4) Grischuk will win
5) Gelfand will win

Max Illingworth
24-05-2011, 04:35 PM
I think it is time for a new poll. On what move do you think Game 5 will be drawn on? Voting closes 9pm EST tonight.

Get your votes in. Too many options to add a proper poll, but feel free to post your predictions.

Options:

1) Moves 1-10
2) Please nominate which particular move from Move 11 to 40 you think the draw will be on.
3) Move 41+
4) Grischuk will win
5) Gelfand will win

Move 14.

Bollard
24-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Move 23 - same number as the great St Kilda centre half forward Stuart Lowe.

Bereaved
24-05-2011, 10:15 PM
move 36.... I mean I wish it would go that long.....move 19 lock it in Eddie!!

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

Adamski
25-05-2011, 12:48 AM
Earlier draw than that - move 17 for me.

What a bore this match is. The reverse order suggestion would make it much more interesting.

Kevin Bonham
25-05-2011, 01:01 AM
Draw in 39. Shame I didn't pre-post my guess which was draw in 43.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.e3 Nbd7 7.c5 Nh5 8.Be2 c6 9.0-0 Nxf4 10.exf4 f6 11.b4 Qc7 12.Qd2 Rf7 13.Rae1 Nf8 14.Bd3 Bd7 15.g3 Re8 16.Re3 Bd8 17.Rfe1 Qb8 18.Na4 Bc7 19.Nb2 Rfe7 20.Qc3 Rd8 21.Bf5 Rf7 22.Bg4 e5 23.Bxd7 exf4 24.Be8 fxe3 25.Qxe3 Ng6 26.Bxf7+ Kxf7 27.Qe6+ Kf8 28.Qh3 Qc8 29.Qxc8 Rxc8 30.Kf1 Re8 31.Rb1 Ke7 32.Nd3 a6 33.a4 Kd7 34.b5 axb5 35.axb5 cxb5 36.Rxb5 Rb8 37.Nb4 Ne7 38.Ne1 Nc6 39.Nxc6 ˝-˝

Clearly Gelfand's position was very cramped but Grischuk failed to find a way to crack it. After the toothless-looking 21.Bf5 Gelfand's reply set a trap which White fell into allowing Black to equalise. There was even room for the nonchalant 28...Qc8 with the point that after 29.Qxh7?? Kf7 and ...Rh8 is coming.

Kevin Bonham
25-05-2011, 01:21 AM
One to go. At some stage either in Game 6 or in the rapids Gelfand is going to have to come out and play for a win as his chances if dragged into blitz cannot be good.

Max Illingworth
26-05-2011, 12:54 AM
Gelfand wins game 6 and the match. This means that the 2012 World Championship Match will be between Anand and Gelfand.

Kevin Bonham
26-05-2011, 01:06 AM
Gelfand wins!

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. Bg2 Nb6 7. Nc3 Nc6 8. e3
O-O 9. O-O Re8 10. Re1 a5 11. Qe2 Bg4 12. h3 Be6 13. b3 a4 14. Rb1 axb3 15.
axb3 Qc8 16. Kh2 Ra5 17. Rd1 Rh5 18. Nh4 Bf6 19. f4 Rd8 20. Qf2 Bxh4 I think this was an error. While it mucks up white's kingside it also dissipates black's play and white's position has too many positives 21.
gxh4 Nd5 22. Nxd5 Rhxd5 23. Bb2 Rb5 24. Qe2! Rh5 25. e4! Bxb3 26. Rdc1!
Na5 27. d5! b6 28. Be5 c5 29. dxc6 f6 30. Ba1 Rc5 31. Rxc5 bxc5 32. Qb5 Qc7
33. Rxb3 Nxc6 34. e5 Nd4 35. Qc4+ 1-0

Towards the end Grischuk was in shocking time trouble but it was irrelevant as he was lost anyway.

Kevin Bonham
26-05-2011, 01:23 AM
Tipping scores for the final:

2/2 Brian Jones, Garrett, Shirty
1 The Bennett, Boris, Jono, Garvinator, default all upset option

Final standings

7 Shirty
4 TheRealDeal, Garvinator
3 Jesper, Bollard, Scott, JaK, Garrett, Brian Jones
etc

All-upsets dummy variable scored 5/8. :owned:

Congratulations to Shirty on his awesome tipping performance.

Capablanca-Fan
26-05-2011, 04:31 AM
These matches were way too short to decide a challenger for the World Championship. Come to think of it, Anand v Kramnik was too short for a title match. Anand is a worthy champ, but it's a shame that he is not going to be challenged by his strongest opponents, through no fault of his.

Qbert
26-05-2011, 06:58 AM
A brilliant and well-deserved victory:clap: :clap: :clap: ... by which I mean Shirty's tipping, and to a lesser extent Gelfand, who at least scored more standard wins than any other player.

Garrett
26-05-2011, 07:06 AM
yes well done Shirty !!

Qbert
26-05-2011, 09:02 AM
These matches were way too short to decide a challenger for the World Championship. Come to think of it, Anand v Kramnik was too short for a title match. Anand is a worthy champ, but it's a shame that he is not going to be challenged by his strongest opponents, through no fault of his.
I think Gelfand is still a dangerous match opponent for Anand. Witness his World cup win in 2009. He was unsuited to previous qualifying tournaments (but 2nd= with Kramnik in Mexico), but this time there was a match-like path to become the challenger. I would like longer matches too, though.

Garvinator
26-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Apparently there was only one white win in all the classical games.

Garvinator
26-05-2011, 02:37 PM
I think Gelfand is still a dangerous match opponent for Anand. Witness his World cup win in 2009. He was unsuited to previous qualifying tournaments (but 2nd= with Kramnik in Mexico), but this time there was a match-like path to become the challenger. I would like longer matches too, though.
I think everyone would like longer matches, but it is a matter of finance and costs.

Kevin Bonham
26-05-2011, 06:35 PM
I was surprised by the lack of celebratory expression from Gelfand when he won the match. When Grischuk resigned he just sat there chatting animatedly about the game with him as if it was some game of blitz in a park.

Adamski
27-05-2011, 12:23 AM
Apparently there was only one white win in all the classical games.
And it was one that really counted as it saw Boris Gelfand through.

Tony Dowden
27-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Tipping scores for the final:

2/2 Brian Jones, Garrett, Shirty
1 The Bennett, Boris, Jono, Garvinator, default all upset option

Final standings

7 Shirty
4 TheRealDeal, Garvinator
3 Jesper, Bollard, Scott, JaK, Garrett, Brian Jones
etc

All-upsets dummy variable scored 5/8. :owned:

Congratulations to Shirty on his awesome tipping performance.

Yep, amazing perf! OK Shirty, what will be the result of Anand vs Gelfand?

Desmond
28-05-2011, 07:55 AM
Yep, amazing perf! OK Shirty, what will be the result of Anand vs Gelfand?
Yes well done shirty.

When is the next shindig?

Kevin Bonham
28-05-2011, 12:13 PM
Final is scheduled for April next year I think.

Agent Smith
28-05-2011, 06:23 PM
I was surprised by the lack of celebratory expression from Gelfand when he won the match. When Grischuk resigned he just sat there chatting animatedly about the game with him as if it was some game of blitz in a park.
Laugh... In the photos i saw, he did seem very circumspect. Despite the fact Gelfand is playing some great chess, perhaps he's not looking forward to getting a beating at the hands of Viswanathan. Or maybe he's just an old soul.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to it, and hope Boris does well.

ER
28-05-2011, 10:01 PM
Yep, amazing perf! OK Shirty, what will be the result of Anand vs Gelfand?

He is busy doing an Anand himself right now! GO GREG!!! One down, :clap: eight more to go! ;) :)