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Kevin Bonham
23-01-2011, 01:50 PM
French GM Sebastian Feller, winner of the board 5 medal at the most recent Olympiad, is accused by his own federation of "organized cheating, serious breach of sport ethics, undermining the image of the national Olympic team in Khanty-Mansyik”. Two other French players who did not play in the Olympiad, GM Arnaud Hauchard and IM Cyril Marzolo are accused of helping him. The exact nature of alleged cheating has not yet been specified.

Feller is 19 and was rated 2649 at the time of the Olympiad at which he scored 6/9 (+5=2-2) performing at 2708. Thus his performance was not that much stronger than his rating but it happened that he was one of the strongest regularly fielded board fives.

More at New York Times chess blog (http://gambit.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/french-chess-federation-accuses-its-own-players-of-cheating/?partner=rss&emc=rss).

Adamski
23-01-2011, 02:45 PM
I will watch developments on this with interest. Sad if it is true.

Kevin Bonham
25-01-2011, 10:42 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6965

Feller denies cheating and alleges the claim is payback for supporting Ilyumzhinov.

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6966

FFE lawyer. He doesn't explicitly say what the accusation is but it does seem it is some form of computer/relay cheating.

Kevin Bonham
28-01-2011, 12:55 AM
The rest of the French team have supported the FFE's desire to investigate the matter (without saying anything about guilt or innocence or that they know anything about it all, of course.)

Denis_Jessop
30-01-2011, 11:03 AM
See also http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6974 where the other members of the team (Vachier-Lagrave, Fressinet, Tkachiev and Edouard) support the FFE's action.

DJ

PS I think Garvin's link may be wrong as I can't get it and the final number seems later than the latest. Or perhaps his PC is a couple of days ahead of my Mac (using Firefox 4b). :)

Garvinator
30-01-2011, 11:06 AM
See also http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6974 where the other members of the team (Vachier-Lagrave, Fressinet, Tkachiev and Edouard) support the FFE's action.

DJ

PS I think Garvin's link may be wrong as I can't get it and the final number seems later than the latest.It looks like Chessbase have pulled the article I linked to, so I will do the same until it re-appears.

Garvinator
30-01-2011, 01:45 PM
Translated from French to English. http://www.echecs.asso.fr/Default.aspx?lg=en


The Steering Committee of the FFE, meeting January 29, 2011 in Paris, became aware of circumstances which led the officers to seize the Federal Commission for Discipline December 22, 2010, for disciplinary action against the International Grandmaster Sebastien Feller and Arnaud Hauchard and against International Master Cyril Marzolo, on the grounds of "suspicion of cheating organized, serious breach of ethics in sport, undermining the image of the Olympic national team, in the Championship World Chess Team which took place in Khanty-Mansyik (Russia) from September 21 to October 3, 2010.

The Steering Committee has taken the measure of the charges, and the establishment of a dossier containing evidence. He decided to fully support the action taken unanimously.

Moreover, given the seriousness of the allegations and the presence of new evidence suggesting that "organized cheating" was not limited to Khanty-Mansyik Olympics, the Steering Committee has asked the Federal Bureau to to bring this case before the criminal courts.

In addition, the Steering Committee reaffirms its commitment to fight against all forms of cheating and welcomes the 4 members of the France team-Maxime Vachier Lagrave, Laurent Fressinet, Vladislav Tkachiev and Romain Edouard, have publicly stated their full support this approach.

The Steering Committee of the FFE

Paris, January 29, 2011

Kevin Bonham
30-01-2011, 02:21 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if it was a defo threat or potential sub judice that made Chessbase pull it while it is still up on the French site.

I do wonder how the FFE are publicly talking about it as a potential criminal court matter while also conducting their own discipline investigation, which presumably hasn't concluded yet as no finding of guilt has been made or punishment imposed. Even assuming there is strong evidence of guilt (and I have no idea if there is or not), procedural fairness is important here.

If Feller is found guilty I'd bet it wouldn't just be the Olympiad - given that the disparity between his rating and supposedly "cheated" Olympiad performance was so low. But he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

Denis_Jessop
01-02-2011, 03:35 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if it was a defo threat or potential sub judice that made Chessbase pull it while it is still up on the French site.

I do wonder how the FFE are publicly talking about it as a potential criminal court matter while also conducting their own discipline investigation, which presumably hasn't concluded yet as no finding of guilt has been made or punishment imposed. Even assuming there is strong evidence of guilt (and I have no idea if there is or not), procedural fairness is important here.

If Feller is found guilty I'd bet it wouldn't just be the Olympiad - given that the disparity between his rating and supposedly "cheated" Olympiad performance was so low. But he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

I don't see anything defamatory in the FFE's statements. Regarding their conducting their own investigation and speaking of referring the matter to the criminal authorities, the reason given for the latter course is additional information suggesting cheating otherwise than in the Olympiad. We have no concrete information but would think it possible that the FFE was concerned only with some disciplinary action on ethical principles while the wider conduct may constitute an offence under the civil law. A similar situation exists regarding drugs in sport in some European countries where bans are imposed by the sporting authorities but drug use. possession etc is also punishable under the civil law by a fine or imprisonment.

DJ

Garvinator
01-02-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't see anything defamatory in the FFE's statements. Regarding their conducting their own investigation and speaking of referring the matter to the criminal authorities, the reason given for the latter course is additional information suggesting cheating otherwise than in the Olympiad. We have no concrete information but would think it possible that the FFE was concerned only with some disciplinary action on ethical principles while the wider conduct may constitute an offence under the civil law. A similar situation exists regarding drugs in sport in some European countries where bans are imposed by the sporting authorities but drug use. possession etc is also punishable under the civil law by a fine or imprisonment.

DJ
Also sometimes it can be covered, or further action taken for fraud charges. Financial gain by deception.

Denis_Jessop
01-02-2011, 06:52 PM
I meant to mention, in case anyone was wondering, that I saw from the FFE website that the "Federal Bureau" is the Executive body (roughly the equivalent of the ACF Executive) and the "Comite Directeur" translated by Garvin's translator as "Steering Committee" but probably better translated as "Management Committee" (the meaning given it by my Collins Robert French Dictionary) is roughly the equivalent of the ACF Council as far as functions go. It's interesting to look at the FFE website. They have an enormous administration compared with us, perhaps because they have government backing of some kind.

DJ

Kevin Bonham
01-02-2011, 08:40 PM
I've obtained a cache (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1stUiJUHxkYJ:www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp%3Fnewsid%3D6981+french+chess+federa tion+cheating&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com) of the pulled Chessbase item. There are some slight differences in translation with what Garvin had above; eg to me "asked" and "mandated" are quite different in English but I don't know which is more accurate.

Garvinator
02-02-2011, 09:29 AM
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6981

Three French chess players who participated in the Master Open of the 43rd Biel Chess Festival (July 2010) are under investigation by the French Chess Federation on suspicion of having cheated at the Chess Olympiad that took place in Russia in July 2010. In September 2010 anonymous witness testimony was brought to the attention of the Organisation Committee of the Biel Chess Festival accusing the same three players of having done the same in Biel. The Organisation Committee was unable to investigate the matter any further since the accusations remained anonymous, too much time had passed and there was no evidence presented. In any case tighter security measures will be implemented during the next Chess Festival (16-20 July 2011).

The Organisation Committee of the International Chess Festival in Biel has taken note of the announcement by the French Chess Federation (FFE) of January 21 2011, which stated that the FFE had initiated, on December 22, 2010, disciplinary action against the International Grandmasters Arnaud Hauchard and Sebastien Feller as well as against International Master Cyril Marzolo, on suspicion of "organized cheating, serious breach of sport ethics, undermining the image of the national Olympic team, at the World Team Chess Championship that took place in Khanty-Mansyik (Russia) from September 21 to October 3, 2010”.

In articles and interviews that appeared on a number of web sites it was suggested that the three players had already attempted a similar fraud during the Master Open of the Biel Chess Festival in 2010. The Chess Festival in Biel replies to direct and indirect inquiries as follows:

1. The announcement of the FFE says that an investigation has been initiated into the actions at the Chess Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk. To date we have not received an inquiry from the FFE.

2. Both GM Arnaud Hauchard and Sébastien Feller did take part in the Master Open in Biel 2010. IM Cyril Marzolo spent a few days at the Convention Centre, but without participating in the Master Open himself.

3. During the tournament there was no direct and official complaint made to the arbiters with reference to any of the mentioned players. A person did appear in the office of the Chess Festival and expressed a "suspicion for collusion." Since such suspicions are raised relatively frequently in the office, but are often not well founded, that person was instructed to contact a referee. Neither the chief arbiter nor a member of the organizing committee are aware that anyone spoke to an arbiter about a concrete suspicion.

4. It is clear that any concrete suspicion would have been clarified by an arbiter.

5. It was only in September, i.e. more than a month after the Master Open in Biel, that we received an e-mail from a third party with detailed statements by three anonymous witnesses, expressing the suspicion of “cheating” by the three players. These anonymous statements refer in particular to a specific game. The GM who had in accordance with these statements been at a disadvantage in this game, could not remember anything abnormal that may have transpired during it.

6. To this day, the names of the three witnesses are not known to us. In addition the accusations were levelled weeks after the end of the tournament, which means that the Chess Festival is currently unable to respond to questions about the accusations.

7. After becoming aware of suspicions we have decided to implement an increase the checking procedures in the next Chess Festival which will be held from 16 - 29 July 2011.

Internationales Schachfestival Biel
Organisation Committee, 30.01.2011

Denis_Jessop
02-02-2011, 12:14 PM
I've obtained a cache (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1stUiJUHxkYJ:www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp%3Fnewsid%3D6981+french+chess+federa tion+cheating&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com) of the pulled Chessbase item. There are some slight differences in translation with what Garvin had above; eg to me "asked" and "mandated" are quite different in English but I don't know which is more accurate.

I think "mandated" is too literal a translation in that it's not what we would say. Probably "commissioned" or "directed" is better. "Asked" is perhaps a little too weak. There is another defect in the Chessbase translation. It simply speaks of "a court of law" which disregards the word "pénales" and also that the word "juridictions" is plural in the French original. "Pénale" is "criminal" . Being unsure of French criminal procedure I don't know if the FFE can bring criminal proceedings direct or whether it must do so through the criminal prosecutors. But a criminal proceeding of some sort is clearly what the Management Committee had in mind. Incidentally, as I pointed out above, the Chessbase translation has got the bodies wrong. The Bureau Fédéral is the Executive Committee and the Comité Directeur is the Management Committee.

ER
02-02-2011, 03:17 PM
Bring back the guillotine!

Denis_Jessop
03-02-2011, 12:17 PM
Bring back the guillotine!

Why? Don't you like increments? :D

DJ

Garvinator
22-03-2011, 12:20 AM
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-disciplinary-committee-says-guilty/

On Saturday the Disciplinary Committee of the French Chess Federation suspended GMs Sebastien Feller and Arnaud Hauchard and IM Cyril Marzolo, saying they are “guilty of a violation of sporting ethics”. The Committee concluded that there was enough proof that the three players cheated during the Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk, in September last year.

On January 24th we reported for the first time on the French cheating case. In a communiqué on its website the French Chess Federation (EFF) accused GMs Sebastien Feller and Arnaud Hauchard and IM Cyril Marzolo of cheating during the Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk, in September 2010.

19-year-old Sebastien Feller played an excellent Olympiad. Rated 2649, he won the gold medal on board 5 with a score of 6/9 and a TPR of 2708. Arnaud Hauchard was French team captain in Khanty-Mansiysk. The federation at this stage didn’t reveal any details about their accusations that Feller’s success was a result of cheating.

Not long after the publication of the communiqué, Sebastien Feller completely denied the accusations of cheating. However, in a communiqué published on the French website Europe-Echecs, the other team members in Khanty-Mansiysk – Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, Laurent Fressinet, Vladislav Tkachiev and Romain Edouard – gave their full support to the federation in investigating the case seriously. More details can be read here.

On March 12th we reported that, according to a Nanterre court judge, the French Chess Federation is not allowed to use SMS text messages as proof for their claim that the players cheated. Feller, Hauchard and Marzolo successfully argued that SMS text messages are covered in Article 1 of the secrecy of correspondence Act of July 10, 1991. Only in criminal cases or security situations can this secrecy be lifted.

Disciplinary Committee

The meeting of the Disciplinary Committee took place on Saturday, March 19th in a hotel in Paris. Europe-Echecs has published an extensive report and according to two of our own sources, this report on yesterday’s meeting is quite accurate. The following paragraphs are largely based on it.

Present were four of the five members of the committee (one was excused for personal reasons), the board of the French Chess Federation and the representatives of the defendants (GM Sebastien Feller, GM Arnaud Hauchard and IM Cyril Marzolo). Two members of the French Olympic team, Romain Edouard and Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, were also there.

The French Chess Federation argued that the three players cheated during the Olympiad. They pointed out that Cyril Marzolo sent nearly two hundred SMS text messages to Sebastien Feller and Arnaud Hauchard. These messages occurred only on days when Feller played. During his games more than two dozen text messages were sent by Marzolo. The federation concluded that this was a very serious violation of sporting ethics, which deserved to be punished.

Defence

The defendants used several arguments. It was claimed that the sheer number of these SMS text messages didn’t prove the cheating itself. It was never proven that Marzolo was actually analysing the games on his computer. Besides, it was claimed that the records of the communication between the players couldn’t be used as evidence, referring to secrecy of correspondence. Furthermore, it was questioned whether the Disciplinary Committee had jurisdiction over happenings that occurred in an event not organized by the French Chess Federation, outside France.

Witnesses

The meeting continued with statements from a number of witnesses. First, Joanna Pomian, Vice-President of the federation, declared that she had discovered the matter on October 27, 2010. She had paid for Cyril Marzolo’s mobile phone subscription while he was working in her company. This was how she had access to the data of the SMS text messages sent during the Olympiad. She said she knew that Feller and Marzolo are close friends, and she also knew about allegations of cheating during the 2010 Paris Championship.

The President of the French Chess Federation, Jean-Claude Moingt, declared that he had heard about suspicions of cheating already during the Olympiad. He also said that in Khanty-Mansiysk security only searched for weapons or explosives, but that anyone could bring their mobile phone into the playing hall. Failing to witness any cheating, Moingt asked team captain Hauchard to remove Feller from the team for the last round.

Romain Edouard, the youngest member of the French team in Khanty-Mansiysk, said that he didn’t witness any suspicious behaviour by Sebastien Feller during the matches. However, he did express his surprise that at first Feller was in the team for the last-round match, but then was dropped again. Most importantly, Edouard revealed that during a lunch in January with Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, Laurent Fressinet and Arnaud Hauchard, the latter admitted that the cheating had taken place.

Like Edouard, Maxime Vachier-Lagrave said in his testimony that it is not possible to conclude about cheating from one good game (the example used in the hearing was the game Howell-Feller), as any strong GM could have found the moves over the board. He also said that Hauchard (with whom he was preparing for Wijk aan Zee) had admitted the cheating to him in early January.

Laurent Fressinet was not present at the meeting, but sent his testimony by email. When he heard about the cheating from Maxime, he decided to compare Feller’s Olympiad games with the strong chess engine Firebird. He felt that indeed in a number of games a large majority of the moves were very similar to the engine’s suggestion.

Guilty

After two hours of deliberation, the committee decided that Feller, Hauchard and Marzolo are “guilty of a violation of sporting ethics”. The Committee concluded that there was enough proof that the three players cheated during the Olympiad.

Marzolo was sentenced to a 5-year suspension from play. Feller received a 3-year ban followed by 2 years of community service with the federation or another association. If he refuses, the 2 years will be added to the suspension period. Hauchard was condemned to a lifetime ban from the duties of captain. The Committee said it had considered the age of Sebastian Feller in its verdict – Feller was 19 during the Olympiad.

The ruling of the Disciplinary Committee is not the end of the story. It’s a first verdict, and the players have the right to fight the decision. The lawyer of Sebastien Feller, Charles Morel, has already announced that he will address the Appeals Committee.

Update 2: Gérard Demuydt of Europe-Echecs sent us some more information. He mentioned a regulation that says that ‘when an accused player appeals, the penalty imposed at first instance can’t be aggravated’. This probably means that if the appeal arrives in time, Sebastien Feller can still participate in the European Championship in Aix les Bains, which begins Monday, March 21st and has the first round on Tuesday, March 22nd.

Besides, according to Jean-Claude Moingt the cheat the system went as follows: Cyril Marzolo sent SMS text messages with phone numbers which functioned as code. The first two digits were always 06, the following two were the number the move, the 5th and 6th figures would refer to the starting square, the 7th and 8th to the ending square, and finally, two counts of no importance. For example: 06 01 52 54 37, 06 01 57 55 99, 06 02 71 63 84, 06 02 67 65 43 are the codes for the moves constituting the Latvian Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5). This is actually the international notation of correspondence chess.

Arnaud Hauchard kept the two phones with him: his own and that of Sebastien Feller. He consulted and then returned to the bar at the venue. The way to indicate moves to Feller was as follows: the opponent of Vachier-Lagrave: A and 1, the opponent of Fressinet: B and 2, the opponent of Tkachiev: C and 3, the opponent of Feller: D and 4, Feller: E and 5, Tkachiev: F and 6, Fressinet: G and 7 and finally Vachier Lagrave: H and 8. For example if Arnaud Hauchard revolved around the table and stopped some time behind the opponent Tkachiev, and then behind that of Fressinet, he was signalling square c2.

Chigoresov
22-03-2011, 09:45 AM
This whole sordid affair taints the beauty and purity of chess.

Is nothing sacred? What message are we sending the children who are discovering, playing and enjoying chess and competition for the first time?

Team positions in the 2010 Olympiad are screwed up as are individual ratings.

Prize-money has been involved, so I think charges of fraud and jail-time should not be dismissed.

They were all adults and a life-time ban should be applied, not some piddling 3-5 years. I don't want them to play again.

They need to have the game taken away from them, the way they have taken something from the game.

Kevin Bonham
22-03-2011, 09:58 AM
Arnaud Hauchard kept the two phones with him: his own and that of Sebastien Feller. He consulted and then returned to the bar at the venue. The way to indicate moves to Feller was as follows: the opponent of Vachier-Lagrave: A and 1, the opponent of Fressinet: B and 2, the opponent of Tkachiev: C and 3, the opponent of Feller: D and 4, Feller: E and 5, Tkachiev: F and 6, Fressinet: G and 7 and finally Vachier Lagrave: H and 8. For example if Arnaud Hauchard revolved around the table and stopped some time behind the opponent Tkachiev, and then behind that of Fressinet, he was signalling square c2.

What a diabolical cheating system.

3-5 years is too short for this in my view. This sort of thing needs to be more firmly stamped out.

Kevin Bonham
22-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Update 2: Gérard Demuydt of Europe-Echecs sent us some more information. He mentioned a regulation that says that ‘when an accused player appeals, the penalty imposed at first instance can’t be aggravated’. This probably means that if the appeal arrives in time, Sebastien Feller can still participate in the European Championship in Aix les Bains, which begins Monday, March 21st and has the first round on Tuesday, March 22nd.

I would have thought it just meant that the penalty won't be increased.

Garvinator
22-03-2011, 10:45 AM
What a diabolical cheating system.

3-5 years is too short for this in my view. This sort of thing needs to be more firmly stamped out.When I first heard of this, I thought that if found guilty there was only going to be one penalty, and that is life time bans.

But I also thought that for the Pakistani cricketers.

I am a bit suspicious about the length of bans, seems to be a half way measure, like the FFE is saying we think they did it, so we have to give them something, but if we give them life time bans, then we are off to court and we are not really sure our case will hold up.

So lets give them a few years as a token measure.

ER
22-03-2011, 12:34 PM
Why? Don't you like increments? :D

DJ

I do but I was talking Robespierre here! ;)

ER
22-03-2011, 12:38 PM
When I first heard of this, I thought that if found guilty there was only going to be one penalty, and that is life time bans.

Lucky offenders, he usually sends the likes of you to the gallows! :P

Rincewind
22-03-2011, 01:30 PM
I do but I was talking Robespierre here! ;)

Be careful. Robespierre sent many "enemies" of The Revolution to the guillotine and, in the end, lost his head by the same method.

ER
22-03-2011, 02:01 PM
Be careful. Robespierre sent many "enemies" of The Revolution to the guillotine and, in the end, lost his head by the same method.

I know, although when he met his fate he hadn't much of a head left on his shoulders. I mean half of his jaw missing resulting from an unsuccessful attempt to take his own life; merciless beatings and various other forms of humiliation throughout his final two - three days, he must have hoped for the blade as a means of relief!
Besides, despite Babeufian tendencies and verbals I am more like Lafayette in saying 'cya laterz' when it comes to real turbulence. For more info look at Fireeter's signature!

Denis_Jessop
22-03-2011, 03:47 PM
It seems that this GM was a naughty feller. :hmm:

DJ

Kevin Bonham
22-03-2011, 05:02 PM
But I also thought that for the Pakistani cricketers.

In my view this is a far more serious form of cheating than theirs. The Pakistanis were spotfixing to the minor detriment of their own side's standing in the game in order to make money on the side. This guy however was gaining a performance advantage for himself and for his country.

I'll be interested to see where FIDE go with all this, if anywhere. If FIDE believe after due process that he is guilty then he must be awarded a zero score for the Olympiad for starters. (Shaun Press was awarded a zero score for refusing to take a drug test).

Desmond
23-03-2011, 08:37 PM
When I first heard of this, I thought that if found guilty there was only going to be one penalty, and that is life time bans.
Life bans and strip them of their titles IMO.

Basil
24-03-2011, 08:25 AM
Life bans and strip them of their titles IMO.
All the way.

Vlad
24-03-2011, 09:12 AM
I was reading some Russian forums discussing this topic. Apparently these guys have been caught cheating in Biel some time earlier. They did not do any sophisticated coding then. The IM was sitting in the press center with a laptop and from time to time was entering the tournament hall to pass the moves. From the comments it sounded like he was passing moves to both GMs, they both were playing. Other players complained, the IM was forbidden from talking to Feller. That did not help, they continued communications, and eventually they got banned from playing in Biel.

That reminds me the discussions about Aeroflot C (under 2300), the tournament Anton played a month ago. It has a very decent prize of something like 8000 Euro. The second year in a row it is won by the same person, in fact most prizes in this tournament are taken by a group of players from Armenia. A few years ago these guys were not very sophisticated. They had somebody sitting with a laptop in a nearby room. Somebody complained the person with the laptop disappeared. What is left? The fact that these guy take all the prize money. Also the fact that they do not perform better than their ratings in other competitions, while in Aeroflot C it is normal for them to play around 2600 strength.

Igor_Goldenberg
24-03-2011, 09:26 AM
When I first heard of this, I thought that if found guilty there was only going to be one penalty, and that is life time bans.

Agree.
Maybe the fact that they couldn't prove it lead to lesser punishment?

Garvinator
24-03-2011, 09:41 AM
Agree.
Maybe the fact that they couldn't prove it lead to lesser punishment?
I think the court case decision influenced the penalty. As in that if the FFE gave life bans, the players would then take it to court and then from the judges order, the sms messages could not be used, so the case is much weaker.

That being said, these type of issues usually are heard by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, not by a criminal court.

Jesper Norgaard
25-03-2011, 04:32 PM
That being said, these type of issues usually are heard by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, not by a criminal court.
The waters are further muddled by chess not being a sport in several countries, including Denmark. So how bring cases of for instance Danish chess players to this court when it is disqualified by the very definition of what chess is in that country. Australia might be in a similar situation (about being or not a sport), although I don't know that for a fact. Highly confusing.

Seriously FIDE needs to step up and define what should be done about "the cheating feller(s)". Especially since this happened right under their own noses, in the FIDE Olympiad, but still have apparently no intention of doing anything. Do FIDE seriously think they have no jurisdiction on cheating taking place in the FIDE tournaments? :wall: :wall: :wall:

Oepty
26-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Life bans and strip them of their titles IMO.

Yes this the only reasonable response. It was a well planned method cheating, not something that someone did on the spur of the moment.
Scottt

Kevin Bonham
05-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Good to see this re the Feller case:


Europe-Echecs reports that the appeal took place on Thursday, May 19th, 2011 in Paris. It didn’t have the desired result for the players: the Appeals Committee not only confirmed the penalty by the French Chess Federation, but Sebastien Feller’s ban was increased from 3 to 5 years and a 3-year ban as a player was added to Arnaud Hauchard’s life ban as a captain or team manager. This was possible because not only the players, but also the French Chess Federation itself had appealed the first verdict in March.

Still not enough. Nowhere near.

ER
05-06-2011, 03:35 PM
Good to see this re the Feller case:
Still not enough. Nowhere near.

Don't you think that any punishment in regards to cheating would result in a life separation of the guilty parties from Chess?
I mean, who would have the audacity to turn up and enter a tournament with such history even after their sentense it over?
On the other hand, I agree with severe punishment for the offenders, since it can be used as a paradigmatic deterrant for future potential cheats!
BTW why do I keep on misreading GM Feller's name, as FM Geller??? :P

Kevin Bonham
05-06-2011, 03:56 PM
Don't you think that any punishment in regards to cheating would result in a life separation of the guilty parties from Chess?

I wouldn't go quite that far but I think there is a case for life-banning them from the Olympiad and perhaps similar teams events and for a ban in the range 7-10 years from high level chess.

Denis_Jessop
05-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Don't you think that any punishment in regards to cheating would result in a life separation of the guilty parties from Chess?
I mean, who would have the audacity to turn up and enter a tournament with such history even after their sentense it over?
On the other hand, I agree with severe punishment for the offenders, since it can be used as a paradigmatic deterrant for future potential cheats!
BTW why do I keep on misreading GM Feller's name, as FM Geller??? :P

A point very similar to this was made by GM Ian Rogers in his column today's "Sunday Canberra Times". Essentially, he says that Feller is so unpopular with his French colleagues that even after the ban expires he may be subject to an unofficial boycott. (No doubt AC will give us a BB Echo reference - the column is not online with the CT.)

DJ

antichrist
05-06-2011, 07:07 PM
A point very similar to this was made by GM Ian Rogers in his column today's "Sunday Canberra Times". Essentially, he says that Feller is so unpopular with his French colleagues that even after the ban expires he may be subject to an unofficial boycott. (No doubt AC will give us a BB Echo reference - the column is not online with the CT.)

I dont think it is still online

Jesper Norgaard
06-06-2011, 02:59 AM
BTW why do I keep on misreading GM Feller's name, as FM Geller??? :P
Because "FM" and "Geller" are more common than "GM" and "Feller" :rolleyes: Or maybe because he would only be an FM without the brainy cellphone add-on.

I'm not in favor of life bans in chess, better to adhere to penalties similar to cycling where the offense and the impact on the sport is similar to chess (although fortunately, offenses are still much more common in cycling than in chess). We have had plenty of draconian rule changes in chess, no reason to escalate into the wrong alley. For instance in the same German Ch. where a new cheating incident was uncovered (Natsidis), there was a forfeit to GM Bindrich that came 2 minutes late to the game - sigh.

Kevin Bonham
06-06-2011, 03:20 AM
I'm not in favor of life bans in chess, better to adhere to penalties similar to cycling where the offense and the impact on the sport is similar to chess (although fortunately, offenses are still much more common in cycling than in chess).

One point that has been made is that in more physical sports, the period of time in which someone performs at or near their peak is typically shorter than in chess. So penalties of the same duration as in a sport like cycling do not have as much impact on a career and therefore are weaker deterrents. Although the evidence from cycling makes one doubt whether the bans there are effective deterrents at all.

ER
06-06-2011, 04:48 AM
Don't you think that any punishment in regards to cheating would result in a life separation of the guilty parties from Chess?


I never said that I proposed a life banning.
All I meant in the above is that whatever the punishment, the cheater's Chess career is over!

Garvinator
03-07-2011, 01:34 AM
Feller’s Case": decision of the FCF about disqualification suspended

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2011/07/procedural-infractions-on-side-of.html


There is a continuation of “Feller’s case”. Yesterday Versailles trial court suspended the decision of the French Chess Federation (FCF) about disqualification of Sebastien Feller and Arnaud Hauchard due to procedural infractions on the side of the federation.

These two chess-players are allowed to play again till the final verdict is delivered. Interestingly enough, this decision doesn’t apply to Cyril Marzolo, the third person involved in the case, since he didn’t file an appeal.

Feller and Hauchard are expected to play in the French Championship which is to be held in August in Caen.
According to the comments by the French chess website Europe-Echecs, in the nearest future there is a possibility of absolutely unexpected course of events, notably, parties can reach the out-of-court settlement.

It will be recalled that in March this year the FCF Disciplinary Committee found Sebastien Feller, Arnaud Hauchard, and Cyril Marzolo guilty of violation of ethical norms at the last Olimpics in Khanty-Mansiysk.

Source: whychess.org

Kevin Bonham
23-08-2011, 08:52 PM
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7475 has detail on the procedural infraction that led to the ban being at least temporarily stayed on appeal:

"the Executive Board of the FFE had initiated the actions against Feller, while the judge deemed that it should have been the federation’s Ethical and Disciplinary Action Commission."

Garvinator
23-08-2011, 09:10 PM
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7475 has detail on the procedural infraction that led to the ban being at least temporarily stayed on appeal:

"the Executive Board of the FFE had initiated the actions against Feller, while the judge deemed that it should have been the federation’s Ethical and Disciplinary Action Commission."
I was wondering why he was playing in the French Championship.

Kevin Bonham
31-07-2012, 07:00 PM
The FIDE Ethics Commission has found the three culprits guilty of breaches of the FIDE Code of Ethics with the following results:

* All objections from the banned players are rejected.
* Arnaud Hauchard banned for three years from 1 August (tomorrow).
* Sebastian Feller banned for two years nine months from 1 August.
* Cyril Marzolo banned for one year and six months with the last nine months suspended under probation. The ban on Marzolo is backdated meaning that he is now under probation and the probation expires 27 November.

The bans on Hauchard and Feller exclude them from all FIDE-rated events including as a delegation member.

This opens the way for Feller's performances at the 2010 Olympiad to perhaps be declared invalid, including his board prize.

Jesse Jager
01-08-2012, 07:40 PM
I think it has been suggested that there would be civil court cases.

ER
01-05-2015, 12:57 AM
Latest on Feller

http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/8698-notice-regarding-sebastian-feller.html

Adamski
01-05-2015, 08:01 AM
Feller is digging his own grave ever deeper.

MichaelBaron
01-05-2015, 11:02 AM
He already ''served his sentence'' so can return to competition I believe

ER
01-05-2015, 11:20 AM
He already ''served his sentence'' so can return to competition I believe

Don't believe anything before you check the link two posts up!

MichaelBaron
01-05-2015, 12:03 PM
Aha, I see - well, why didn't they ask him to do so in the first place :(. Feels a bit like adding more years in prison to someone who alreadyserved his sentence in full

Rincewind
01-05-2015, 02:47 PM
Aha, I see - well, why didn't they ask him to do so in the first place :(. Feels a bit like adding more years in prison to someone who alreadyserved his sentence in full

I suspect he was asked to do so some time ago. The notice from just says that the decision to leave the ban in force and threaten legal action was made recently and was due to non compliance with the directive to return the prize money and medal.

MichaelBaron
01-05-2015, 03:44 PM
I suspect he was asked to do so some time ago. The notice from just says that the decision to leave the ban in force and threaten legal action was made recently and was due to non compliance with the directive to return the prize money and medal.

Then fair enough