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Kai
21-12-2010, 07:48 AM
I have recently installed Deep Rybka 4 on an HP Pavilion laptop which has an Intel i7 quad-core processor running at 1.6 Ghz. I only have chessbase running on the laptop, which has no other software installed on it.

However, Deep Rybka seems to be incredibly slow (or makes the whole laptop run incredibly slowly) and the analysis takes ages. Even the pieces on Chessbase are moving very slowly!

I had upgraded to this from previously running Fritz / Shredder 10 using a Macbook plus Parallels desktop, and there was no problem at all.

I know Deep Rybka is a lot stronger, which is why I had to install it on a new quadcore laptop but I didn't expect it to be so frustratingly slow!

Can anyone advise please? I would really appreciate any views on this, and preferably in non-IT speak, as I am a humble lifelong mac user who is owning a PC laptop for the first time:P Thanks:P

Brian_Jones
21-12-2010, 07:54 AM
It should not run slow so maybe you have virus or similar? What processes are running?

Garrett
21-12-2010, 07:59 AM
It sounds like your computer is low on memory.

Press Control-Alt-Delete all together and have a look at how much memory is being used.

Maybe the default size of the Rybka hash-table takes more memory than your laptop has.

Also, what have you got open with ChessBase ? If you play 1.e4 then access your reference database you will pull back an incredible amout of games which will take heaps of memory too.

Hope you get it sorted !

cheers
Garrett.

Basil
21-12-2010, 08:23 AM
Can anyone advise please?
*exerts incredible restraint*


I would really appreciate any views on this
Not mine - but I suspect you know the truth!


... and preferably in non-IT speak
Oh no - I never use IT speak ...


... as I am a humble lifelong mac user who is owning a PC laptop for the first time:P Thanks:P
We are ready for you when you return my son. God speed.

Kai
21-12-2010, 08:37 AM
It sounds like your computer is low on memory.

Press Control-Alt-Delete all together and have a look at how much memory is being used.

Maybe the default size of the Rybka hash-table takes more memory than your laptop has.

Also, what have you got open with ChessBase ? If you play 1.e4 then access your reference database you will pull back an incredible amout of games which will take heaps of memory too.

Hope you get it sorted !

cheers
Garrett.

Thanks a lot, Garrett and Brian,

The memory info shows that 27% physical memory is being used (there is a bar chart which shows 1.6 GB used on the side) when I am not using Deep Rybka. But when I I run it, the CPU usage shoots up to 100% used with 70% of physical memory.

Actually, i forgot, I do also have Mega Database software installed. Still, the laptop is dedicated for chess use only, so shouldn't have these memory issues, should it?

The hash size it is running says 2456 MB.

The odd thing is that it runs very fast at first when analysing a game, especially in the opening phases, then after using it for about 10 mins, it slows right down. Even if I go back to ask it to analyse the opening phase which it was analysing quickly, it would return slowly, and the pieces start dragging slowly.

Thanks for your help though. I will try to sort it out (may be a big ask for a non-IT savvy person like me:confused: )

Kai

Manack
21-12-2010, 10:37 AM
The hash size it is running says 2456 MB.

The odd thing is that it runs very fast at first when analysing a game, especially in the opening phases, then after using it for about 10 mins, it slows right down. Even if I go back to ask it to analyse the opening phase which it was analysing quickly, it would return slowly, and the pieces start dragging slowly.

Memory is very likely the problem. I would suspect that you are running out of physical memory and the computer is thrashing the HDD as it access your HDD virtual memory cache. Deep Rybka 3 is extremely memory intensive. Rybka takes whatever you have set as table base cache and multiplies it by the number of cores you are using.

The solution would be to reduce the size of Rybka's table base cache and hash tables or not use them what so ever.

Garvinator
21-12-2010, 11:17 AM
All the forums about Deep Rybka 4 say the same thing. DR4 is a very slow engine. It can take sometimes 2 hours just to reach ply 22 in a not very difficult position.

For the same amount of time Stockfish will be up to about ply 35 or so.

It has nothing much to do with your computer, even though the usual statements about memory and speed apply.

Desmond
21-12-2010, 03:23 PM
The hash size it is running says 2456 MB.
That sounds like a lot.

Kai
21-12-2010, 06:01 PM
All the forums about Deep Rybka 4 say the same thing. DR4 is a very slow engine. It can take sometimes 2 hours just to reach ply 22 in a not very difficult position.

For the same amount of time Stockfish will be up to about ply 35 or so.

It has nothing much to do with your computer, even though the usual statements about memory and speed apply.

Thanks everyone,

So if it is jut a slow engine with nothing to do with the computer, is there anything I can do about it?

I can try and reduce the hash size as you say. Previously, my Fritz 10 was running at about 800 MB hash size and was fast , though I assume what it would come out with would be inferior to Deep Rybka's analysis?

Will keep trying.......thank everyone though. Appreciate your comments.;)

Garvinator
21-12-2010, 10:40 PM
Thanks everyone,

So if it is jut a slow engine with nothing to do with the computer, is there anything I can do about it?

I can try and reduce the hash size as you say. Previously, my Fritz 10 was running at about 800 MB hash size and was fast , though I assume what it would come out with would be inferior to Deep Rybka's analysis?

Will keep trying.......thank everyone though. Appreciate your comments.;)Since you know about hash tables, then it is a matter of trial and error to find out what is the largest size hash tables you can use without slowing down your computer.

Of course 4mb hash will keep your computer super fast, but if you are doing analysis where you are going back and forth between moves in a variation, then 4mb hash will not store much memory about a position.

The higher the hash, the more the engine can 'remember' about a position, which means when you come back to your original position for analysis after inputting a few moves, it will remember the previous sets of analysis.

So you are not starting afresh each time. But as I said, it is a tradeoff with any engine. The higher the hash table set, the more memory available, but this might slow down the computer so much that it might be better to have a lower hash table and allow the computer to run faster.

Also, do you plan on being able to do other things on the same computer while analysing? If so, then it might only be possible to use 4mb hash as quite a few people have found that DR4 has a habit of locking up the computer by exhausting all available memory.

Kai
22-12-2010, 07:57 AM
Since you know about hash tables, then it is a matter of trial and error to find out what is the largest size hash tables you can use without slowing down your computer.

Of course 4mb hash will keep your computer super fast, but if you are doing analysis where you are going back and forth between moves in a variation, then 4mb hash will not store much memory about a position.

The higher the hash, the more the engine can 'remember' about a position, which means when you come back to your original position for analysis after inputting a few moves, it will remember the previous sets of analysis.

So you are not starting afresh each time. But as I said, it is a tradeoff with any engine. The higher the hash table set, the more memory available, but this might slow down the computer so much that it might be better to have a lower hash table and allow the computer to run faster.

Also, do you plan on being able to do other things on the same computer while analysing? If so, then it might only be possible to use 4mb hash as quite a few people have found that DR4 has a habit of locking up the computer by exhausting all available memory.

Thanks Garvin,

This makes sense. I reduced the hash table size, and it is running faster now. To be honest, I wasn't sure what the hash table size did. I just assumed the bigger it was, the more powerful the analysis.

But as you say, I will have to decide on the trade-off for speed on a game-by-game basis.

Also, I don't do anything else while the engine is on, except to have chessbase on with the game being analysed or annotated. But on the odd occasion when I have tried to surf the internet while waiting for the analysis, it has locked up too.

Thanks for all your advice. It is a great help.

Kai

first25plus5
24-01-2012, 09:11 PM
Previous versions of Rybka (3 and earlier) tended to be best used setting the Hash Ram to a 'power of 2'. e.g. 512MB, 1024MB etc. The Rybka site forum had a good discussion on this. If you test a positions with a Hash larger than 512 MB but less than 1024MB you may find there is no difference (or virtually none) in speed compared to 512MB. So you may as well set it at a 'power of 2' number, and leave the rest of the RAM for your machine to use to run itself.

Max Illingworth
24-01-2012, 09:12 PM
I have recently installed Deep Rybka 4 on an HP Pavilion laptop which has an Intel i7 quad-core processor running at 1.6 Ghz. I only have chessbase running on the laptop, which has no other software installed on it.

However, Deep Rybka seems to be incredibly slow (or makes the whole laptop run incredibly slowly) and the analysis takes ages. Even the pieces on Chessbase are moving very slowly!

I had upgraded to this from previously running Fritz / Shredder 10 using a Macbook plus Parallels desktop, and there was no problem at all.

I know Deep Rybka is a lot stronger, which is why I had to install it on a new quadcore laptop but I didn't expect it to be so frustratingly slow!

Can anyone advise please? I would really appreciate any views on this, and preferably in non-IT speak, as I am a humble lifelong mac user who is owning a PC laptop for the first time:P Thanks:P

Uninstall the UCI Engine, then click 'Add UCI Engine', then set priority to 'below normal'.

BrendanNorman
24-01-2012, 09:39 PM
Uninstall the UCI Engine, then click 'Add UCI Engine', then set priority to 'below normal'.

Its probably a hash table issue.

Set your hash tables to about a quarter of available RAM... this should be enough, even less if you are only doing a quick analysis.

Max Illingworth
24-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Its probably a hash table issue.

Set your hash tables to about a quarter of available RAM... this should be enough, even less if you are only doing a quick analysis.

Yes, that is the quick fix, which reduces but does not eliminate the lag/freeze.

Davidflude
25-01-2012, 07:36 PM
1) First start your database. Then go to your analysis program from ChessBase. Now it runs twice as fast. i KNOW THAT THIS SOUNDS CRAZY but it has been tested by many people.

2) Next keep your hash table to no more than one quarter of your available memory. By available memory I mean the maximum amount that you can set when looking at the chess program options.

3) Award Rybka the order of thr Imperial arsehole and switch to houdini

4) get yourself a PC with as many cores as possible vast amounts of memory, but do not be surprised if your program hits the wall faster.

Agent Smith
26-01-2012, 07:40 PM
It seems reasonable to me for the GUI to limit any engine's hash size to some fraction of total RAM. Seeing as there is at least the operating system, gui and engine running at the same time, i'd guess 50% max would be fair ? Hmmm... 33% ?