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peter_parr
07-06-2010, 10:57 AM
One Player One Rating

See...

SMH (http://www.chessdiscountsales.com/news/2010.htm)

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One Player One Rating

Peter Parr (7/6/10)

The FIDE General Secretary Ignatius Leong(Singapore)and FIDE Commercial Director Geoffrey Borg(Malta)gave an excellent presentation of The World Chess Federation(FIDE)at Norths,Cammeray,Sydney last Tuesday evening. Leong stressed the importance of one player one rating. FIDE has recently extended the World Rating List to players of all levels and in June 2010 there are over 113,000 FIDE rated players. The target within a few years is over one million. Most National Federations produce their own national rating lists and Australia is believed to be the only country(out of 170 FIDE member countries) that produces a national rapid rating list as well as a national rating list. Australian states calculate further separate rating lists for junior players. Leading Australian juniors may have four different ratings at present.

The Elo rating system used by FIDE for many years which has the support of almost all National Federations will remain. FIDE will soon restructure FIDE rating fees so nations will pay no extra fees for many thousands of games. All nations will then be able to process results of players in all events in one and one only rating system giving players worldwide one rating - a FIDE rating. Leong and Borg were interested to read in the SMH that there are 8000 juniors competing in NSW schools. They strongly recommended Australian Chess Federation accredited teachers/trainers courses (Turkey has over 20,000 accredited teachers/trainers). The 2012 Chess Olympiad is in Istanbul,Turkey.

The Chinese Championship held last week in Xinghu resulted in a triple tie for first place between Wang Hao(2722)-the winner on countback,Bu Xiangzhi(2681) and Zhou Jianchao(2652) each scoring 7.5/11. Wang Hao became a GM at the age of 16,Bu Xiangzhi was 13. The defending Chinese Champion Ding Liren,the youngest ever Chinese Champion(aged 16 in 2009) won the following game. Ding Liren 2547 v Li Shilong 2514 E11 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 Bb4+ 4. Nbd2 b6 5. a3 Bxd2+ 6. Qxd2 Bb7 7. e3 O-O 8. Be2 d6 9. O-O Nbd7 10. b4 Ne4 11. Qc2 f5 12. d5 e5 13. Ne1 Ng5 14. f4 Ne4 15. Nf3 c6 16. dxc6 Bxc6 17. Bb2 Qe7 18. Rad1 Kh8 19. Ba1 Rae8 20. Qb2 h6 21. fxe5 Nxe5 22. Nxe5 dxe5 23. Bh5 Qg5 24. Bxe8 Rxe8 25. Qe2 Re6 26. Rf3 Qh5 27. b5 Bb7 28. Rd8+ Kh7 29. Rd7 Bc8 30. Rc7 Nd6 31. Rg3!! 1-0. China is ranked third in the world based on the top ten rated players below only Russia and Ukraine - fourth is India.

For the Australian June 2010 rating period there were 130 Tournaments rated (88 Classic, 42 Rapid) and 11134 games of which 6801 were in the ACF Classic rating system and 4333 were in the ACF Rapid rating system. Top 10 - GM Z.Zhao NSW 2585 (-21), GM D.Smerdon ACT 2511 (+1), IM G.Xie NSW 2475 (+12), IM A.Wohl NSW 2415 (=), IM S.Solomon QLD 2387 (+16), GM D.Johansen VIC 2360 (-52), FM I.Bjelobrk NSW 2354 (=), IM I.Goldenberg VIC 2336 (+8), FM M.Illingworth NSW 2333 (+30), FM J.Sales NSW 2327 (=). Senior over 80 - W.Leonhardt WA 1861, Over 70-FM A.Flatow NSW 2104, Over 60-IM M.Rujevic VIC 2193, Junior U-20 and U-18 - FM M.Illingworth NSW 2333, U-16 and U-14 World Under 12 Champion - FM B.Cheng VIC 2280, U-12 and U-10 A.Smirnov NSW 1863. Women - WIM A.Caoili QLD 2186, G.Nguyen SA 2101, IM I.Berezina-Feldman NSW 2048, WIM B.Dekic NSW 1966. Girls U-20 WFM E.Guo ACT 1843.

The 7 round Integra NSW Open is the NSW Chess Association's premier weekend tournament held at Parramatta RSL 12-14 June. The total prize fund based on 125 entries is $9100. The main event has seven major prizes(1st $1400) and 9 rating prizes in 3 divisions. The Under 1600 rated tournament has 6 major prizes(1st $900) and 6 rating prizes in 2 divisions. Further details from Lou Damaschino tel 0411 457 733 or visit the NSWCA website www.nswca.org.au.
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Kevin Bonham
07-06-2010, 12:17 PM
Most National Federations produce their own national rating lists and Australia is believed to be the only country(out of 170 FIDE member countries) that produces a national rapid rating list as well as a national rating list.

Who believes this? Looks like they're wrong. At a quick search it appears that national rapid rating systems exist in the Phillipines, the Bahamas, Armenia, Slovenia and (unless the references are out of date and the systems have been abandoned) in Ireland and Italy, among others. The USCF has a "quick" ratings system which I believe rates blitz and rapid combined while also rating slower rapid games on the main list. That was just those for which "rapid ratings" came up as a search term in English; if I searched in other languages who knows what I might find?

Vlad
08-06-2010, 12:21 PM
I can understand why FIDE wants it: more people - more money. I do not see why federations would possibly agree. With one rating system there will be so many problems - it will take years and years to even get FIDE understanding what the potential issues are, let alone fixing them.

With the recent fiasco when the majority of players wanted to raise K factor, while the minority preferred the status quo, it is easy to predict what would happen if one rating – one player “dream” was implemented.

Bill Gletsos
08-06-2010, 10:42 PM
Actually FIDE's push for one player one rating isnt quite as Peter claims.

The idea is that FIDE will include the rating of rapid and blitz in their rating system.

However instead of creating separate rapid & blitz rating lists, FIDE plans of rating all events in the one list.

However as Ignatius explained to me when I drove him back to his hotel, FIDE will first have to determine what K factors to use to weight rapid & Blitz games.

Another point made is that the aim isnt to surplant national rating systems but to encourage national federations to also rate more of their events in the FIDE system. The reason being it is better top be able to say to sponsors that you have 1 million rated players than just 100K+ players.

Of course whilst FIDE maintains a rating cutoff off of 1200+ then they will not be rating the vast majority of the largest segment of players, juniors.
Also whilst they keep their K main K-factor at 15 for the vast majority of players they will not be able to keep up with rapidly improving juniors.

Kevin Bonham
08-06-2010, 10:44 PM
There is some more on this by Peter Parr in the ACF Newsletter:


Ratings - Gletsos advised that maybe Australia would soon start a blitz rating system. I asked if FIDE knew if any of the other 169 FIDE Member countries had a national rapid rating list in addition to a national rating list. FIDE were not aware of any other federation with a rapid rating list and that FIDE had started one a long time ago but abandoned it after a short period.

So it seems like Messrs Leong and Borg (as well as Parr) were not aware of which countries had rapid rating systems and this is no surprise since none of these people are primarily involved with ratings.


Leong and Borg had never heard of a Glicko rating system and seemed very surprised when I mentioned a former World Girls Champion living in Australia scored 4.5/7 in a weekender and lost over 600 ACF rating points due to inactivity under this Glicko system.

And this seems to be one of these cases where the facts expand in the telling.

Here (http://chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=157300&postcount=90) is a previous Peter Parr post where he refers to Katrin Aladjova-Wills scoring 3/7 and "losing" 481 ratings points. Those points were "lost" off a rating that was over a decade out of date and which on many ratings lists (including the ACF list under the jurisdiction of one of its former officers) would simply have been wiped from the system completely leaving the player with an even lower rating or even with no rating at all if she played no more chess on return.

Somehow in the intervening three years she has gained 1.5 game points from her seven games and "lost" an extra 120+ ratings points.

So if the FIDE representatives were surprised to hear the mangling of the story documented by Peter Parr then so they should have been. It is not true.

In my view, notwithstanding his NSWCA role, Peter should leave discussions with FIDE about rating matters to those who know what they are talking about, or alternatively to the stating of positions formally endorsed by his state association.

Kevin Bonham
10-06-2010, 10:20 PM
It's also worth noting, as flagged by Garvin on another thread, that there has been discussion within FIDE about possible systems changes and that in 2012 the matter of a possible system change will be discussed further. Chessbase reports:


When David Jarrett opened the topic “towards the future”, Bartlomiej Macieja recommended a radical change: abandon completely the Elo system and adopt the Glicko system instead. He compared Arpad Elo’s system to Newton’s mechanics and Marc Glickman’s system to Einstein’s theory of relativity. That is, the Elo system is a subset of Glicko system. Glickman allows the evaluation and use of quality factors that the Elo system completely ignores.

CivicChessMan
11-06-2010, 09:58 AM
Most National Federations produce their own national rating lists and Australia is believed to be the only country(out of 170 FIDE member countries) that produces a national rapid rating list as well as a national rating list.

I agree with Kevin when he says "Who believes this? Looks like they're wrong." New Zealand has had a rapid rating list since 1991!

Here are the top 10 for both standard and rapid ratings from the February rating lists.

Top 10 Open Standard
1 (unc) CHANDLER M 2546
2 (unc) DIVE RJ 2466
3 (unc) KER AF 2430
4 (unc) NOKES RI 2383
5 (unc) WANG PC 2372
6 (+ 1) WASTNEY S 2358
7 (- 1) SMITH RW 2357
8 (+ 2) CROAD N 2347
9 (unc) STEADMAN MVR 2335
10 (+ 1) LUKEY SG 2318

Top 10 Open Rapid
1 (unc) WANG PC 2412
2 (unc) KER AF 2363
3 (unc) DIVE RJ 2349
4 (unc) CROAD N 2336
5 (- 1) NOBLE MF 2306
6 (unc) GARBETT PA 2289
7 (unc) WATSON BR 2252
8 (new) LUKEY SG 2235
9 (unc) WASTNEY S 2225
10 (+ 1) STEADMAN MVR 2223


A note on inactive players in the NZ system. If a provisionally rated player (< 20 rated games) is inactive for 4 years, that player is removed from the system. An established rated player is removed after 10 years of inactivity. If a removed player does make a comeback then the player starts from scratch. This is a rare occurrence.