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arosar
31-08-2004, 06:34 PM
I thought it better to create a whole new thread.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/religion.html

I know one or two of you 'rationalist' blokes will appreciate that one. Check out also those other stories in the right nav. These articles are written by academics, not some shonky wannabe intellectuals.

Explore the site. I think you will like it.

AR

JGB
31-08-2004, 07:11 PM
Its an interseting link! The group who call themsleves the Committee For The Scientific Investigations Claims of the Paranormal?! have some good points.

I am not a religious man, well I do not believe in a single faith anyway. I believe in myself and that I can change my destiny with everything that I do day by day. I am responsible for the actions I take and I will be punished here on earth for those actions which are deemed wrong. Perhaps there is God, that I can not say for I have never met him, her or it. What I am sure of 100% (regardless of what the different religious folk believe) I know that how I live my life on earth in this life, regardless that I have never prayed to a god, if such a thing exists; he will judge me by what I have done equally with all other people, including jews, muslims, christians on my deathbed.

For me it still comes down to Religion being a natural need for people who want something to believe in, because at times in life the belief in one self is perhaps not enough or becomes too difficult. Especially in time of great loss etc (as explained on the site above) Religion made more sense a few hundred years ago when people where unaware of what scientist know today (weather patterns and why storms ruin pastures etc) Today people do not need to ask the gods why they sent storms to destroy the crop, people know they are natural disasters which happen from time to time whether or not a lamb was slaughtered the night before.

For me the disbelief in ones self helps explain why so many 'born agains' are in the most dire stages of life; perhaps with a crippling disease or in prison facing the death penalty. For these people who need something to believe in what else is there? Perhaps the being that caused this wicked thing to happen in life can again take it away? (if not now perhaps in a next life)

Some of my best friends are religious, and I love them no more or less because of this fact. So long no one tries to waste my time telling me which religious is 'correct' they are a friend of mine. I normally keep my mouth shut on the topic and hope that others do for me unless asked.

Cat
31-08-2004, 11:46 PM
Its an interseting link! The group who call themsleves the Committee For The Scientific Investigations Claims of the Paranormal?! have some good points.

I am not a religious man, well I do not believe in a single faith anyway. I believe in myself and that I can change my destiny with everything that I do day by day. I am responsible for the actions I take and I will be punished here on earth for those actions which are deemed wrong. Perhaps there is God, that I can not say for I have never met him, her or it. What I am sure of 100% (regardless of what the different religious folk believe) I know that how I live my life on earth in this life, regardless that I have never prayed to a god, if such a thing exists; he will judge me by what I have done equally with all other people, including jews, muslims, christians on my deathbed.

For me it still comes down to Religion being a natural need for people who want something to believe in, because at times in life the belief in one self is perhaps not enough or becomes too difficult. Especially in time of great loss etc (as explained on the site above) Religion made more sense a few hundred years ago when people where unaware of what scientist know today (weather patterns and why storms ruin pastures etc) Today people do not need to ask the gods why they sent storms to destroy the crop, people know they are natural disasters which happen from time to time whether or not a lamb was slaughtered the night before.

For me the disbelief in ones self helps explain why so many 'born agains' are in the most dire stages of life; perhaps with a crippling disease or in prison facing the death penalty. For these people who need something to believe in what else is there? Perhaps the being that caused this wicked thing to happen in life can again take it away? (if not now perhaps in a next life)

Some of my best friends are religious, and I love them no more or less because of this fact. So long no one tries to waste my time telling me which religious is 'correct' they are a friend of mine. I normally keep my mouth shut on the topic and hope that others do for me unless asked.


Very nice post.

Cat
31-08-2004, 11:47 PM
I thought it better to create a whole new thread.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/religion.html

I know one or two of you 'rationalist' blokes will appreciate that one. Check out also those other stories in the right nav. These articles are written by academics, not some shonky wannabe intellectuals.

Explore the site. I think you will like it.

AR


Because it doesn't contain any preservatives?

Kevin Bonham
01-09-2004, 12:22 AM
Very interesting link indeed. Most of it is very good reading. However the last few paragraphs did not impress me, eg:

It is quite clear that explicit religious belief requires a suspension of the sound rules according to which most scientists evaluate evidence. But so does most ordinary thinking, of the kind that sustains our commonsense intuitions about the surrounding environment.

(then goes on to give examples.)

Ordinary thinking does not require such a suspension of sound evidence because it works scientifically with practically 100% reliability on the level required for everyday life. Whether a car is really "a solid object" or "composed largely of empty space" makes no difference when it runs you over. That there could in theory be a long interbreeding continuum running from a cat to a dog makes no difference when nobody actually owns a pet dat or cog because the intermediate forms are extinct. That travel backwards in time may be possible is not necessary to everyday cognition because experience shows that only John Howard does this. etc. So I don't regard these conclusions as any real threat to my belief that science is an extension of rational processes essential to the most basic survival, while religion is something else altogether. The difference between commonsense thinking and close scientific scrutiny seems to me more like one of scale, context and practicality. I agree with the article though that many of the common attempts to explain religion away are failures.

Incidentally why CSICOP may come across as a rationalist-type organisation, it is really an paranormalist-sceptic organisation and not an atheist group, and one of its foremost figures, the patron saint of recreational mathematics Martin Gardner, was actually a Christian. I'm not saying this to attack them; they do a lot of excellent work.