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Amir K.
08-12-2009, 08:40 AM
If anything your FIDE is rubbish as it is based on only 23 games. Your ACF is based on 147.
FIDE consider 60+ as normal time controls.
One thing for certain that is rubbish and meaningless is this statement.

One is sure, there is something wrong with the rating criteria by ACF and Bill should consider review of the rating factors, simple said to modernize a style of judgement.
To example:
I came second at Tin Cup in February 2009 and my rating, did not change or perhaps went down 20 points ( not sure but does not matter anyway).

Basil
08-12-2009, 09:09 AM
I came second at Tin Cup in February 2008 and my rating, did not change or perhaps went down 20 points ( not sure but does not matter anyway).
That's not an example. New thread created here (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=11151) for future ratings complaints.

Bill Gletsos
08-12-2009, 10:19 AM
One is sure, there is something wrong with the rating criteria by ACF and Bill should consider review of the rating factors, simple said to modernize a style of judgement.
To example:
I came second at Tin Cup in February 2008 and my rating, did not change or perhaps went down 20 points ( not sure but does not matter anyway).You did not play in the 2008 Tin Cup. :doh:

Amir K.
08-12-2009, 07:26 PM
You did not play in the 2008 Tin Cup. :doh:
2009 Tin Cup

Bill Gletsos
08-12-2009, 07:37 PM
2009 Tin CupAs I suspected.
I have responded to your incorrect claim here (http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=264931&postcount=8).

Amir K.
09-12-2009, 04:55 AM
As I suspected.
I have responded to your incorrect claim here (http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=264931&postcount=8).

Your problem is that you not getting the point!
Advertising AUS Championship U2150 as a FIDE tournament, than using ACF ranking list is not correct, it is like ignoring FIDE and introducing New rating list and new system to the world(which is not popular anyway).

Trent Parker
09-12-2009, 07:11 AM
Your problem is that you not getting the point!
Advertising AUS Championship U2150 as a FIDE tournament, than using ACF ranking list is not correct,

I'm sorry Amir but you were the one that brought up your performance at the 2009 Tin Cup in reference to this situation...... I think, in this case Bill has hit the nail on the head!

In the major section FIDE ratings are less reliable than ACF ratings. Hence I think the correct way to do the draw for the major is through ACF ratings


it is like ignoring FIDE and introducing New rating list and new system to the world(which is not popular anyway).

US chess federation, British chess federation, New Zealand chess federation all have their own ratings systems why do we have to be any different? I personally like Glicko2. And I would disagree with your statement about its unpopularity. Its only the ones who complain who get heard!

Bill Gletsos
09-12-2009, 01:40 PM
Your problem is that you not getting the point!Perhaps because you were not making any point other than allowing me to highlight your false claims regarding your rating and the 2009 Tin Cup.

Advertising AUS Championship U2150 as a FIDE tournament, than using ACF ranking list is not correct, it is like ignoring FIDE and introducing New rating list and new system to the world(which is not popular anyway).Unfortunately you do not know what you are talking about.
There is no requirement that FIDE rated events have the players seeded in FIDE rating order.

Amir K.
09-12-2009, 06:34 PM
I'm sorry Amir but you were the one that brought up your performance at the 2009 Tin Cup in reference to this situation...... I think, in this case Bill has hit the nail on the head!


In the major section FIDE ratings are less reliable than ACF ratings. Hence I think the correct way to do the draw for the major is through ACF ratings



US chess federation, British chess federation, New Zealand chess federation all have their own ratings systems why do we have to be any different? I personally like Glicko2. And I would disagree with your statement about its unpopularity. Its only the ones who complain who get heard!

I am not sure if I should reply to you, but you are usig words: nail in the head.
Your words are agressive, so see you at AUS Championship.
I do not see, that I do have anything against Bill Glestos, unfortunatelly I do respect his work for Australian chess and such person is hard to find.
However, Bill can not adjust him on every comment, but if more people complaints about something, he should start to think how to solve the problem.

Amir K.
09-12-2009, 06:43 PM
Perhaps because you were not making any point other than allowing me to highlight your false claims regarding your rating and the 2009 Tin Cup.
Unfortunately you do not know what you are talking about.
There is no requirement that FIDE rated events have the players seeded in FIDE rating order.

Bill, you still did not give an answer, how someone can come as a second in the Tin cup 2009 and lose 9 points?
Is that correct criteria?

Desmond
09-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Bill, you still did not answer, how someone can come as second in the Tin cup 2009 and lose 9 points?
Is that correct criteria?
Rating losses or gains have nothing to do with your placement in the tournament.

Amir K.
09-12-2009, 07:02 PM
Rating losses or gains have nothing to do with your placement in the tournament.

Hi Boris, we need a Santa on 15 December at our club, do you have all equipment to be the 'One"?:D

Bill Gletsos
09-12-2009, 10:36 PM
Bill, you still did not give an answer, how someone can come as a second in the Tin cup 2009 and lose 9 points?
Is that correct criteria?If you are going to ask questions then try and pay attention when answers are given.

I responded in post #298 in this thread.

Amir K.
10-12-2009, 02:14 AM
If you are going to ask questions then try and pay attention when answers are given.

I responded in post #298 in this thread.

Yes, it shows how swiss perfect pairing system "good" is!

Ian Rout
10-12-2009, 08:19 AM
Bill, you still did not give an answer, how someone can come as a second in the Tin cup 2009 and lose 9 points?
Is that correct criteria?
The short answer to that question is that the rating system is not a Grand Prix where a player gets so many points for first, second etc, but reflects performance against the field relative to existing rating.

Thus a player can perform below their rating (hence lose points) and come second; on occasion players win a tournament but perform below their rating. On the other hand a player can come low or last in a tournament and their rating increase.

This is not a feature of ACF ratings but of any system. For instance looking at the list of results quoted elsewhere, imagine that the player who scored them was 1600 and the Elo system as used by FIDE was employed, with a K factor of 15, The effect would be

opp rat res
Rd rat res diff exp diff change
1 787 1 813 1.00 0.00 0.00
2 1161 0 439 0.94 -0.94 -14.10
3 914 1 686 0.99 0.01 0.15
4 1044 1 556 0.97 0.03 0.45
5 1314 1 286 0.84 0.16 2.40
6 1484 1 116 0.66 0.34 5.10

5 5.40 -0.40 -6.00
The workings of the Elo system are at http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook?id=73&view=article

Trent Parker
10-12-2009, 09:24 AM
I am not sure if I should reply to you, but you are usig words: nail in the head.
Your words are agressive, so see you at AUS Championship.
I do not see, that I do have anything against Bill Glestos, unfortunatelly I do respect his work for Australian chess and such person is hard to find.
However, Bill can not adjust him on every comment, but if more people complaints about something, he should start to think how to solve the problem.

Amir, I am not being aggressive. Check the wording: Nail on the head. In other words Bill was accurate.

I appologise if you feel I was aggressive. This was not my intention. I am not an aggressive person (ok maybe sometimes at the board i'll play aggressively but....)

antichrist
12-12-2009, 10:48 PM
One is sure, there is something wrong with the rating criteria by ACF and Bill should consider review of the rating factors, simple said to modernize a style of judgement.
To example:
I came second at Tin Cup in February 2009 and my rating, did not change or perhaps went down 20 points ( not sure but does not matter anyway).

I imagine in one sec that if all players were rated substantially below yourself that you could lose points - assuming that you lose one game

Thunderspirit
13-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Rating losses or gains have nothing to do with your placement in the tournament.

Great point, Boris.

Amir, harden up. If you play a divisonal event as one of the higher seeds, you have to expect to loose rating points. If your rating is that important, don't play divisional events and take the cash that comes with comming second.

Chigoresov
20-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Bill, you still did not give an answer, how someone can come as a second in the Tin cup 2009 and lose 9 points?
Is that correct criteria? :rolleyes:

Sometimes funny things happen at chess tournaments. You come second and lose rating points. You run tournaments and players coming second get no prize money - eg: Broadbeach Open 2008