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ER
16-11-2009, 09:16 AM
These questions apply to all those who have an opinion for or against the death penalty!
Would you be an executioner?
Yes
No
Maybe
I don't know
Are the executioners committing murder when they execute people?
Yes
No
Maybe
I don't know
It would be greatly appreciated if a moderator constructed a poll for this! Thanks in advance!

My answer to the first question is NO
My answer to the second question is YES
__________________

Basil
16-11-2009, 09:17 AM
1. Under certain circumstances (YES).

2. NO. Murder has a legal definition. State-sanctioned execution is (by definition) not murder. If one is to define murder outside of the law, then any rationale as to whether murder has been committed can be proffered depending on the construct and the confines of the adopted definition.

ER
16-11-2009, 09:26 AM
(...) If one is to define murder outside of the law, well any answer can be proffered depending on the construct and the confines of the adopted definition.
Which particular law? There are laws elsewhere, which allow for public lynching (ie stoning) or mutilation etc! Are lynching crowds and mutilators to be absolved of the crimes they commit?

Kevin Bonham
16-11-2009, 10:49 AM
It would be greatly appreciated if a moderator constructed a poll for this! Thanks in advance!

A little bit difficult when you have two questions and each of them has four answers.

By the way, you can include your own polls with threads and this is not particularly difficult. Decide on the wording of your poll and how many answers you want (think about it carefully to avoid having to come back and add more.)

Then when submitting your new thread scroll down and click the box that says "Yes, post a poll with this thread" and enter the number of options that you need.

Oh, my answers are No and No.

Ian Murray
16-11-2009, 11:25 AM
Which particular law? There are laws elsewhere, which allow for public lynching (ie stoning) or mutilation etc! Are lynching crowds and mutilators to be absolved of the crimes they commit?
Acting within the law in force at that place and time is not a crime, however barbarous it may appear to us.

In places where Sharia law applies, I'd be someplace else!

My answers: NO and NO

ER
16-11-2009, 11:48 AM
A little bit difficult when you have two questions and each of them has four answers.

By the way, you can include your own polls with threads and this is not particularly difficult. Decide on the wording of your poll and how many answers you want (think about it carefully to avoid having to come back and add more.)

Then when submitting your new thread scroll down and click the box that says "Yes, post a poll with this thread" and enter the number of options that you need.

Oh, my answers are No and No.

Thanks I will do that when i go home Kev!

Kevin Bonham
16-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Thanks I will do that when i go home Kev!

If you want to start a new thread on this issue with a poll on it I can merge this one into it after you have done so.

ER
16-11-2009, 12:10 PM
If you want to start a new thread on this issue with a poll on it I can merge this one into it after you have done so.

That would be really nice, if you can actually add the exisitng discussion it will be even better! :) thanks in advance Kevin!

Capablanca-Fan
16-11-2009, 02:12 PM
1. Under certain circumstances (YES).

2. NO. Murder has a legal definition. State-sanctioned execution is (by definition) not murder. If one is to define murder outside of the law, then any rationale as to whether murder has been committed can be proffered depending on the construct and the confines of the adopted definition.
Same here. "Murder" should not be redefined as "killing I don't approve of".

Oepty
16-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Same here. "Murder" should not be redefined as "killing I don't approve of".

Murder should be defined as killing God doesn't aprrove of. What any particular government says is of a lot less value.
So does God approve of the killing involved in the death penalty? I don't think so, so I think the killing is murder.
Scott

Capablanca-Fan
17-11-2009, 04:20 AM
Murder should be defined as killing God doesn't aprrove of. What any particular government says is of a lot less value.
So does God approve of the killing involved in the death penalty? I don't think so, so I think the killing is murder.
The same book that said "Do not commit murder" (Exodus) also mandated the death penalty for murder. So evidently God differentiated murder from capital punishment. Where has capital punishment been repealed?

Oepty
17-11-2009, 08:29 PM
The same book that said "Do not commit murder" (Exodus) also mandated the death penalty for murder. So evidently God differentiated murder from capital punishment. Where has capital punishment been repealed?

Jono, when Jesus died on the cross. The Law of Moses ceased to be a requirement for those wishing to be obedient to God. When I talk about the right or wrong of killing somebody, whether it through the death penalty or other ways, I am refering to the current state that the world is in now. In the past and in the future things are different. When you look at the OT it deals with the running of a nation, Israel, God's Kingdom on the earth and this will be reestablished in the future with Jesus as King. Then as before there will be need of killing, but now there is no need as there is no nation/kingdom to fight for, to rule over, to punish the people of so there is no deliberate killing a person trying to be obedient to God should be a party to.
Scott

Capablanca-Fan
18-11-2009, 04:05 AM
Jono, when Jesus died on the cross. The Law of Moses ceased to be a requirement for those wishing to be obedient to God.
The Law of Noah was still applicable, which is clearly still binding unless you think that God will flood the whole earth again (Gen. 9).


On the cross, one malefactor repented and rebuked the other one, admitting that they deserved death while Jesus did not, and Jesus commended the repentant one and promised they would meet in paradise (Luke 23:40 ff).

[QUOTE=Scott Colliver]When I talk about the right or wrong of killing somebody, whether it through the death penalty or other ways, I am refering to the current state that the world is in now.
So where is the evidence that the death penalty is repealed. Paul said that if he had done anything worthy of death, he would not refuse to die (Acts 25:11). He said that the government does not bear the sword in vain (Rom. 13).


In the past and in the future things are different. When you look at the OT it deals with the running of a nation, Israel, God's Kingdom on the earth and this will be reestablished in the future with Jesus as King.
All true, at least from Exodus.


Then as before there will be need of killing, but now there is no need as there is no nation/kingdom to fight for, to rule over, to punish the people of so there is no deliberate killing a person trying to be obedient to God should be a party to.
Lots of assertion there. On this post (http://chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=176860&postcount=66), I show how killing in self-defence and just war is biblically commended, as is peace through deterrence.

Goughfather
18-11-2009, 06:47 PM
Lots of assertion there. On this post (http://chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=176860&postcount=66), I show how killing in self-defence and just war is biblically commended, as is peace through deterrence.

Remind me to bring along some of Leo Tolstoy's writings on the subject when you get back to the Logan Chess Club. If nothing else, you'll enjoy the prose.

Redmond Barry
19-11-2009, 06:24 PM
1) no. its probably not going to help you endear yourself to the fairer sex plus the inefficiences of law are also a stumbling block.


2) yes. any amount of spin is still not going to avoid the obvious act taking place.......

Capablanca-Fan
19-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Remind me to bring along some of Leo Tolstoy's writings on the subject when you get back to the Logan Chess Club. If nothing else, you'll enjoy the prose.
Not sure that Tolstoy counts as a Bible scholar, but indeed there is no disputing that he's a great novellist.

Goughfather
19-11-2009, 09:07 PM
Not sure that Tolstoy counts as a Bible scholar, but indeed there is no disputing that he's a great novellist.

Whether or not Tolstoy is a great theologian or not depends upon your presuppositions. His theology is certainly not systematic or propositional in the style of Calvin, but if you don't hold the presupposition that the Bible needs to be read like a textbook you can learn to appreciate the insights of Leo Tolstoy, just like Soren Kierkegaard before him.

Saragossa
23-11-2009, 04:49 PM
How much would I get payed to kill someone?

Basil
23-11-2009, 05:45 PM
How much would I get payed to kill someone?
Traditionally, not much.

ER
23-11-2009, 06:18 PM
How much would I get payed to kill someone?

hmm Lawrence ok to PM you with an offer???:cool:

Desmond
23-11-2009, 07:26 PM
How much would I get payed to kill someone?Probably life.

Ian Murray
23-11-2009, 07:29 PM
How much would I get payed to kill someone?
Take out an entry in the Yellow Pages under Hitmen then see what sort of offers you get

Saragossa
23-11-2009, 07:32 PM
Internet says that they just get payed the same wardens wages. I'm not digging it as employment.

Rofl@Jak

ER
23-11-2009, 07:41 PM
ok I will openly identify the victim and the method of execution. It is a very annoying and bullying type of a blowfly which is threatening to invade my flat through the balkony. It keeps on viciously headbutting the glass door. It is also very fast. Now, Lawrence, I know that by nature you wouldn't hurt a fly let alone one of the blowfly species. But, since you are faster than me, would you be able to make it lose conscience with a dose of Baygon, (provided by yours trully) so we can jail it for the term of its natural life? Reward will be a brand new chess clock as a present to Kole!!!

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2009, 03:56 AM
Whether or not Tolstoy is a great theologian or not depends upon your presuppositions. His theology is certainly not systematic or propositional in the style of Calvin, but if you don't hold the presupposition that the Bible needs to be read like a textbook you can learn to appreciate the insights of Leo Tolstoy,
Why? How do we know that the alleged pacifism of these passages isn't one of the alleged errors in the Bible, which you assert by faith are there?


just like Soren Kierkegaard before him.
Who cares about Kierkegaard's irrational existentialism?

Just a small request: let's continue to keep Chess Chat and Logan Chess Club separate.

Goughfather
24-11-2009, 06:27 PM
Just a small request: let's continue to keep Chess Chat and Logan Chess Club separate.

Fair enough. I knew you were a very active poster, but I didn't really think that you took what happened on this board so seriously. Personally, I don't think it's worth all the aggression and anger I seem to see coming from you.

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2009, 07:56 PM
Fair enough. I knew you were a very active poster, but I didn't really think that you took what happened on this board so seriously.
I don't, really. That's why I don't take it outside, nor even let political and religious debates spill over into the chess threads.


Personally, I don't think it's worth all the aggression and anger I seem to see coming from you.
Ah yes, one of those irregular verbs, as Bernard Woolley used to say: Leftists are expressing patriotic dissent from Shrubby; Righties are racist to disagree with Obamov. Lefties are righteously indignant against Howard; righties are angry ranters against Rudd.

Bernard:


It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it: I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist.

It's another one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential press briefings, you leak, he's been charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act.

Basil
24-11-2009, 08:09 PM
Bernard:


It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it: I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist.

It's another one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential press briefings, you leak, he's been charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act.
Classic. Sorely missed.

Igor_Goldenberg
24-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Answer to both questions is "No".

There are many jobs I wouldn't do under almost no circumstances, but it does not mean they are below contempt.

I remember about 15 years I asked my chess student what did he do.
He replied "Guillotine operator". Being a recently new arrival with a very limited English I was shocked and quite a bit scared. Fortunately he explained it all happens in the printing house.

Saragossa
25-11-2009, 05:41 PM
ok I will openly identify the victim and the method of execution. It is a very annoying and bullying type of a blowfly which is threatening to invade my flat through the balkony. It keeps on viciously headbutting the glass door. It is also very fast. Now, Lawrence, I know that by nature you wouldn't hurt a fly let alone one of the blowfly species. But, since you are faster than me, would you be able to make it lose conscience with a dose of Baygon, (provided by yours trully) so we can jail it for the term of its natural life? Reward will be a brand new chess clock as a present to Kole!!!

Can't you just get a restraining order on AC?