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arosar
08-10-2009, 04:28 PM
If you saw the "Hey Hey It's Saturday" reunion show, you would have also seen that so-called skit involving a black-faced character. Well, now that incident has made world headlines (http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/heyheyoutrage/2009/10/08/1254701093476.html).

What say you about this?

AR

Basil
08-10-2009, 04:33 PM
What say you about this?

AR
Intent. Context.

Kevin Bonham
08-10-2009, 04:58 PM
I do care to some degree about the extent to which the trash end of the TV gutter may reflect badly on the lot of us, but all the same I voted for the second option. Hey Hey always was an embarrassingly bad and boofheaded show and Somers is a premium moron and one of the worst in Australia's seemingly endless collection of emptyheaded grinning "entertainment" goons.

The most significant aspect of the whole saga is not that Hey Hey was racist but that Hey Hey returned to existence and in that form was watched by millions. I am hopeful that it will not return on a regular basis, but that hope has nothing to do with this episode and everything to do with the show having always been dumbheaded. If the racism scandal contributes to it never coming back again I will be glad, but only instrumentally. I'd rather dismiss the dweebery outright and not give it any potential sympathy by reacting to the specific incident.

Desmond
08-10-2009, 05:08 PM
I love it how one of the genius Guardian readers refers to "white racists". Pottle, kettle, black. Snow, ice, white

Mischa
08-10-2009, 08:56 PM
I think the most racist Australians seem to be the most recent Australians...this is only from my experience.

Mischa
08-10-2009, 08:58 PM
And I must stress that this is a gross generalization

Capablanca-Fan
08-10-2009, 09:22 PM
“For the most part, white bigots are no longer respected among whites and I look forward to the day when black bigots are no longer respected among blacks.”—Dr Walter Williams (http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams093009.php3), black American economics professor.

arosar
08-10-2009, 10:05 PM
I think the most racist Australians seem to be the most recent Australians...this is only from my experience.

Whaddya mean? Somebody call you a skippy?

AR

Mischa
08-10-2009, 10:09 PM
I wouldn't find it offensive to be called a skippy...I have never been called one.
Oh Hang on yes I have...sorry . My Italian brother in law used to do it a lot.
And my American Indian Brother inlaw thought the term very funny (his name is Randy)
My Catholic Brother in Law finds references to the methodist church highly amusing
Me...I just like to find amusement in those that let me

Spiny Norman
09-10-2009, 05:19 AM
Its a whole lot of huff and puff by people with selective vision.

I didn't hear them complain about racism when The Chaser did a skit which involved them dressing up as Muslims and pretending to be Osama Bin Laden.

There are a hundred other examples every year of people pretending to be someone from another race.

I also didn't hear them complain about religious intolerance every time they see a skit in which someone dresses up with a clerical collar and rubbishes the Christian religion.

Hypocrites.

Spiny Norman
09-10-2009, 05:24 AM
Think I'm joking about hypocrisy? Watch this:

ooKaCbMvaZ0

At 0:50 you will see Harry Connick Jr enter, dressed as a black preacher. So not only racist, but religiously intolerent.

Hypocrites! :hand:

ER
09-10-2009, 07:03 AM
lol hey all wait till A/C comes back! :P

Rincewind
09-10-2009, 07:36 AM
At 0:50 you will see Harry Connick Jr enter, dressed as a black preacher. So not only racist, but religiously intolerent.

Maybe I missed something but he didn't look black to me. The other guy did but didn't appear to be wearing makeup. So I think there is no comparison to the racist parody on Hey Hey.

Regarding the religious intolerance, that is beside the point and also pretty weak. Certainly there was nothing there which would raise the eyebrows of any by the the biggest wowsers. Certainly not of Dave Allen or Kenny Everett level which was in mainstream media 30 years ago.

Basil
09-10-2009, 09:07 AM
Certainly not of Dave Allen or Kenny Everett level which was in mainstream media 30 years ago.
I think the point (of the wet minority) is that mainstream media 30 years ago was part of the problem. Regardless, I agree with you and Snail. What a tossing dog's breakfast. Whether it's the CL here 2 years ago, the shoutbox here a month ago or Hey Hey a week ago, any parody by whitey of others sets the *****s in a spin and holds the community to ransom.

FFS *****, get a ***** clue and let go of your **** ***** :D

Better now. Carry on!

Basil
09-10-2009, 09:18 AM
Now Kamahl (a Hey Hey regular) is offended and threatening legal action citing years of suffered racism at the hands of the show :rolleyes:

This begs so many questions ... I can't stomach it any more. I'm off to have a lie down.

EDIT: Kamahl is upset because of a cartoon screened during the skit. The cartoon read "Where's Kamahl?" and was accompanied by a caricature image of him (as one would find in any newspaper of any public figure).

Basil
09-10-2009, 09:25 AM
OK I can't let it go! I have made the point before and I'll do so again. I can, and do, regularly poke at the yanks, the kiwis, the french, the ruskis, the poms ... but invoke a similar comment where there's a non white skin colour and woo-hoo ... holy cow ... the world goes potty! The racism! The hysterics! The self-righteous! Bloody hell. Damn this sheeet makes me angry.

I'm off to look for my Kevin 'Ruddy Lips' Rudd doll and give it a good kicking around the house.

Igor_Goldenberg
09-10-2009, 09:41 AM
FFS *****, get a ***** clue and let go of your **** ***** :D


That more or less summarised the discussion.

Basil
09-10-2009, 09:55 AM
OK you lily-livered apologist wets (that includes you Harry and any other bleeding-heart artisans (poets, artists, singers, writers, actors)) I want to know what is an acceptable joke on non-whites.

Go on! You can't tell me can you? There isn't one. You're sooooo damn hard-wired and f***ed-up upstairs, your programming prevents you from contemplating any joke at all regarding race.

You people make me wanna puke!

Sooooooooooooooooooo bad.

Rincewind
09-10-2009, 09:55 AM
I think the point (of the wet minority) is that mainstream media 30 years ago was part of the problem.

I agree but there is a difference between parodying those in a position of privilege and parodying those who (as a group) aren't.

Personally I don't have a huge problem with the Hey Hey skit as a concept other than the proximity of it to the death and possibly murder/manslaughter of Michael Jackson. I didn't see it as a slur on blacks in general as its target was pretty specific and not particularly underprivileged. However, I think the skit was an poorly conceived piece of comedy.

In my opinion Harry Connick Jr was a bit silly to kick up a stink on air when what he should have done is checked these things out at the audition (or have someone run him through the premises of the acts he would be judging). I think if he had just stuck with giving the act a zero and said no more it would have avoided giving the show more publicity than it deserved.

Basil
09-10-2009, 09:57 AM
However, I think the skit was an poorly conceived piece of comedy.
I haven't seen the whole skit, but from what I have seen it had no redeeming qualities whatsoever!

deanhogg
09-10-2009, 10:21 AM
This has been blown out of proportion but, lcan understand why Americans
would be upset as it still pretty fresh in people's mind about Jackson Death
But to say we are Racist that is bit hypocritical especially with some
of their talk shows eg David letterman .Hey Hey might have to axe that
segment if they want to return which would be a pity !

arosar
09-10-2009, 10:35 AM
Perhaps the attention in the US is less to do with Jackson's death than with this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show).

AR

Desmond
09-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Perhaps the attention in the US is less to do with Jackson's death than with this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show).

ARThanks for the link. There's some history I didn't know. In American culture this type of act has a context it doesn't have here. Aren't visitors meant to bend themselves to the culture they are visiting? When in Rome...

Spiny Norman
09-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Maybe I missed something but he didn't look black to me.
If you can't see his fuzzy wuzzy wig and hear the way he is talking and acting, you must be (selectively) blind.

Muzzy
09-10-2009, 04:39 PM
My 2 cents worth on the topic is that I feel that there is racism in Australia but it goes on silently in the background. You will only ever see it surface with one or two incidents now and then but the majority of it is done politically/silently.

Not pointing any fingers at anyone but this is my gut feel or intuition as they would call it in chess. Sad but true :(

Spiny Norman
09-10-2009, 04:50 PM
If you can't see his fuzzy wuzzy wig and hear the way he is talking and acting, you must be (selectively) blind.
... of course, making the above comments will immediately have me branded as racist! :doh: :rolleyes:

arosar
09-10-2009, 05:12 PM
... of course, making the above comments will immediately have me branded as racist! :doh: :rolleyes:

Poor bastard. This is what it's come down to. Paranoid skippies.

Look mate, no need to worry. The Fuzzy Wuzzies were heroes. Didn't you know that?

AR

Kevin Bonham
09-10-2009, 05:17 PM
Its a whole lot of huff and puff by people with selective vision.

I didn't hear them complain about racism when The Chaser did a skit which involved them dressing up as Muslims and pretending to be Osama Bin Laden.

Well the best known stunt in which they pretended to be Osama was actually a joke about APEC security (or lack thereof) and a hugely effective one; it had nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

Which Chaser skit involving Muslims and bin Laden did you have in mind?

Rincewind
09-10-2009, 07:16 PM
If you can't see his fuzzy wuzzy wig and hear the way he is talking and acting, you must be (selectively) blind.

I did see the wig but I don't think there was any attempt to portray him as black as he obviously wasn't and the most obvious think to address that deficiency would have been to do something about his skin tone. As for the way he was talking I took him to be a speaking in the manner of a southern (possibly baptist) preacher but not of any particular race.

I thought the way they parodied the commercialism of some churches (especially tv evangelists) to be relevant but not particularly entertaining.

Spiny Norman
10-10-2009, 05:18 AM
Well the best known stunt in which they pretended to be Osama was actually a joke about APEC security (or lack thereof) and a hugely effective one; it had nothing to do with racism whatsoever.
I agree. Similarly, I don't think the Red Faces segment had anything to do with racism either; it was a bunch of guys dressed up (with extra makeup) as an attempt to parody the Jackson Five. No big deal. I get why Americans are offended. "Blackface" is taboo there. But not here. The fact that Somers and the performers apologised immediately once the offence became known says volumes about the fact that the offence was unintended.

I find the whole scenario intriguing. The more I read about it, the more it seems to me that the issue is just the use of "blackface". Its not what was said or done, other than that bit of makeup being used. So if the skit had been done with white faces, there would have been no objection.

To accuse people of racism when there is clearly no intent of racism is very poor. We don't accuse children of racism if they get into the boot cupboard and smear Nugget on their faces and pretend to be black people. We recognise that their lack of intent to denigrate black people generally is a mitigating factor.

I suspect that people's over-use of the Racism word actually is counter-productive. Racism is a very serious issue. To use it to smear people for trivial matters ends up trivialising the issue IMO. Much better to use it for people who really do have negative intent and do serious harm to people of other races.

Spiny Norman
10-10-2009, 05:26 AM
I should point out that there is only one time when I have been really incensed (extremely offended) at the treatment of Christian belief on TV. I have seen a lot in 46 years. Most of the negative stuff I ignore. But about 2 years ago there was an American TV program put to air here where two so-called comedians ripped into the YEC/Christian grouping generally. They used large amounts of swearing to emphasise their total hatred and disdain of anyone who fell into that grouping (of which I am one).

It was so disgusting that I could not watch it. I ended up writing to the TV station in question to protest because it was clearly in the category of "hate speech" in my opinion. When I compare the content to the Red Faces skit, its like apples and oranges ... because of the intent factor.

I'm very pleased that the crap which tried to pass itself off as comedy was soon taken off air. But I never got a reply from the station; never got an apology. Par for the course.

Basil
10-10-2009, 09:46 AM
I agree. Similarly, I don't think the Red Faces segment had anything to do with racism either; it was a bunch of guys dressed up (with extra makeup) as an attempt to parody the Jackson Five. No big deal. I get why Americans are offended. "Blackface" is taboo there. But not here. The fact that Somers and the performers apologised immediately once the offence became known says volumes about the fact that the offence was unintended.

I find the whole scenario intriguing. The more I read about it, the more it seems to me that the issue is just the use of "blackface". Its not what was said or done, other than that bit of makeup being used. So if the skit had been done with white faces, there would have been no objection.

To accuse people of racism when there is clearly no intent of racism is very poor. We don't accuse children of racism if they get into the boot cupboard and smear Nugget on their faces and pretend to be black people. We recognise that their lack of intent to denigrate black people generally is a mitigating factor.

I suspect that people's over-use of the Racism word actually is counter-productive. Racism is a very serious issue. To use it to smear people for trivial matters ends up trivialising the issue IMO. Much better to use it for people who really do have negative intent and do serious harm to people of other races.
:clap:

Oepty
10-10-2009, 12:42 PM
I agree. Similarly, I don't think the Red Faces segment had anything to do with racism either; it was a bunch of guys dressed up (with extra makeup) as an attempt to parody the Jackson Five. No big deal. I get why Americans are offended. "Blackface" is taboo there. But not here. The fact that Somers and the performers apologised immediately once the offence became known says volumes about the fact that the offence was unintended.

I find the whole scenario intriguing. The more I read about it, the more it seems to me that the issue is just the use of "blackface". Its not what was said or done, other than that bit of makeup being used. So if the skit had been done with white faces, there would have been no objection.

To accuse people of racism when there is clearly no intent of racism is very poor. We don't accuse children of racism if they get into the boot cupboard and smear Nugget on their faces and pretend to be black people. We recognise that their lack of intent to denigrate black people generally is a mitigating factor.

I suspect that people's over-use of the Racism word actually is counter-productive. Racism is a very serious issue. To use it to smear people for trivial matters ends up trivialising the issue IMO. Much better to use it for people who really do have negative intent and do serious harm to people of other races.

Very good post, I agree.
Scott

Capablanca-Fan
10-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Exactly right, SK.

On a related note, when that buffoon (and former segregationist) Jimmy Carter accuses Obama's critics of racism, it both smears legitimate criticism and makes the term into a debate-stopper rather than a description of a genuine problem.

Goughfather
10-10-2009, 07:31 PM
To accuse people of racism when there is clearly no intent of racism is very poor. We don't accuse children of racism if they get into the boot cupboard and smear Nugget on their faces and pretend to be black people. We recognise that their lack of intent to denigrate black people generally is a mitigating factor.

While they might not have specifically intended to be racist, some responsibility still exists to consider the ramifications of one's actions. It is a weak excuse to say "We were just joking around", when three seconds of reflection may reveal that what one is doing is racially insensitive. It is this responsibility that separates the actions of supposedly intelligent adults from the innocent play of the hypothetical children above.

Basil
10-10-2009, 07:35 PM
It is a weak excuse to say "We were just joking around", when three seconds of reflection may reveal that what one is doing is racially insensitive.
By your reckoning, is there any way a white person can dress up and parody a black person (or vice versa considering we have black presidents, sporting heroes and CEOs)? Or is this now 100%, categorically a culturally banned act? Come on David. Context and intent. Without that, we might as well all give up.

Basil
10-10-2009, 09:42 PM
Just finished an episode of The Comedy Company. Various nationalaities had the mick taken. All caucasian. Had they selected a non-caucasian nationality, would that would be instant poor taste and racism? :hand:

Goughfather
10-10-2009, 10:51 PM
By your reckoning, is there any way a white person can dress up and parody a black person (or vice versa considering we have black presidents, sporting heroes and CEOs)? Or is this now 100%, categorically a culturally banned act? Come on David. Context and intent. Without that, we might as well all give up.

A worthwhile question. Quite apart from the historical baggage, I've got the impression that the most offensive elements of the Jackson Jive were the homogeneity of the figures on stage and the fact that they were dancing around stage like buffoons. In that respect, I'd be of the opinion that if a parody was clearly about Obama (in that someone is made up to at least have a passing resemblance to Obama) and attempted to directly parodise Obama and qualities that are esoterically his own, then an accusation of racism couldn't really stand.

Kevin Bonham
11-10-2009, 12:11 AM
I agree. Similarly, I don't think the Red Faces segment had anything to do with racism either; it was a bunch of guys dressed up (with extra makeup) as an attempt to parody the Jackson Five.

I don't really want to give them or that braindead show the time of day by discussing the skit in detail and indeed every appearance of it in the media makes me cringe because Hey Hey rubbish is getting public attention again.

All the same, the Chaser skit not only was not racist, but there was no even semi-plausible ground (however mistaken) for thinking about the possibility that it might be. There's more chance it would have been mistaken as propaganda for Osama bin Laden than that.

So it is not an adequate example to demonstrate selective vision. In this specific Chaser case there was nothing for anyone to even pretend they could see. Indeed this is demonstrated by it not even being prominently picked as a putative example of perceived racism by those who like to use Chaser skits to show up alleged double standards.

Spiny Norman
11-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Here is The Chaser parodying the Jackson Five, complete with blackface.

dNV7JrGNmTo

I don't recall a shitstorm of opinion at the time. Presumably this is because there was no American judge viewing it. But its interesting that all the usual Australian bleeding heart suspects made no comment at the time about how inappropriate it was.

I smell hypocrisy in the wind ...

Kevin Bonham
11-10-2009, 07:39 PM
I smell hypocrisy in the wind ...

It might well be there but your examples continue to fail to prove it. While they did pretend to be the Jackson Five in that case the primary purpose was nothing to do with the Jacksons, but rather to adapt a Jackson Five song to convey messages about topical political issues in song form. Just as the song they did in the guise of the Village People in the last series was really aimed at the Navy itself rather than the parodied band.

Furthermore there is just an ever so slight difference in hue in the contrasted examples of so-called "blackface".

Oepty
11-10-2009, 08:01 PM
Criticism from a hypocrite is not necessarily wrong criticism. What they are criticising might well be worthly of the cricticism, just the critic may be open to exactly the same criticism of their actions or values.

Proving the critics of the skit in question are hypocrites does nothing to show whether the skit in question was performed with rascist motivations.

I do not believe it was but I also think Harry Connick Jnr was shocked by the act because of the backround blackface performances have in the American context. A context that is missing here in Australia.
Scott

arosar
13-10-2009, 03:08 PM
Check this (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/piggyback-race-of-midget-jockeys-at-cranbourne-racetrack-accused-of-ridiculing-short-statured-people/story-e6frexni-1225786051876) out youse blokes. It's a piggy back race involving midget people. Vid here (http://player.video.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/#1293395362).

Victorian Racing Minister Rob Hulls condemned the event. Isn't this just a bit of fun? What do youse reckon?

AR

Spiny Norman
13-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Given that some little people were involved in it and seemed to have a lot of fun, who am I to criticise?

Capablanca-Fan
13-10-2009, 03:59 PM
If it didn't bother dwarfs, it shouldn't bother Nanny Hulls.

arosar
13-10-2009, 10:11 PM
This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/6292411/BBC-plans-for-TV-comedy-are-no-laughing-matter.html) by Simon Heffer, originally published in the UK's Tele, is relevant.

AR

Mischa
13-10-2009, 10:47 PM
hard question...first you have to define australian
Black face is a distinctly USA cultural thing. Not really relevant here
I think first define Australian before you can ask if they are racist
Arosar take you for eg...do you call yourself Australian?
My very Italian brother in law would never call himself racist but he hates jews and greeks and phillopinos(sorry re spelling)
I have a friend from the Phillipines who hates Italians and australians
He is married to a Malaysian that hates anyone who supports Colingwood

arosar
13-10-2009, 10:51 PM
Look, it doesn't matter. So long as we all hate each other equally, then we're all equals. That's it.

AR

arosar
27-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Get a load of this, right. From bisuits to Nazis (http://www.smh.com.au/national/coles-backs-down-over-racist--biscuit-20091027-hhhk.html)!! It's totally amazing.

AR

Garvinator
27-10-2009, 10:47 PM
From previous times I have seen Sam Watson commenting on racism matters, he really does strike me as someone who is out there looking for issues that might be considered racist. So I put him in the category of (if all you have is a hammer, then you see everything as a nail) type stuff.

Desmond
28-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Get a load of this, right. From bisuits to Nazis (http://www.smh.com.au/national/coles-backs-down-over-racist--biscuit-20091027-hhhk.html)!! It's totally amazing.

ARIn one of its definitions, Oxford says Creole is "a person of mixed European and black descent".

Hardly offensive stuff. I've heard children with mixed race parents described as cappacino kids; are we now to ban cappacino flavoured biscuits too?

Capablanca-Fan
28-10-2009, 09:59 AM
From previous times I have seen Sam Watson commenting on racism matters, he really does strike me as someone who is out there looking for issues that might be considered racist. So I put him in the category of (if all you have is a hammer, then you see everything as a nail) type stuff.
Well put. This is the danger of appointing Diversitypolizei in the first place, like Human Rights Commissions and the like: they need to justify their existence by finding more and more "infractions", thus elongating their tentacles. And of course there are the associated lawyer types who get rich out of the resulting litigation.

arosar
28-10-2009, 10:36 AM
You'll find that the only morons complaining about this sorta thing are white middle class sh*t-for-brains. They got nothin' better to do. Come Xmas, you'll see some of these .... (I really feel like using the 'C' word) complain that maybe we shouldn't have carols cos we might offend jews and muslims. I mean, you know, FFS!

AR

Basil
28-10-2009, 10:48 AM
You'll find that the only morons complaining about this sorta thing are white middle class sh*t-for-brains. They got nothin' better to do. Come Xmas, you'll see some of these .... (I really feel like using the 'C' word) complain that maybe we shouldn't have carols cos we might offend jews and muslims. I mean, you know, FFS!

AR
Me an' you AR. All the way to the Lodge. You can take the summer months. All we need is a name for the party. The 'we won't take it any more party'? The FTFAJ Party? (.... That For A Joke)

Capablanca-Fan
28-10-2009, 11:30 AM
You'll find that the only morons complaining about this sorta thing are white middle class sh*t-for-brains. They got nothin' better to do. Come Xmas, you'll see some of these .... (I really feel like using the 'C' word) complain that maybe we shouldn't have carols cos we might offend jews and muslims. I mean, you know, FFS!
Agreed, AR. And you have accurately fingered the culprits. The Jews and Muslims are usually not offended by Christmas carols, so the "offense" is in the mind of the white middle class PC Polizei.

Capablanca-Fan
02-11-2009, 11:57 AM
“I guess I'm a racist. I think black people can succeed without the help of white liberals.”—Mike Adams.

antichrist
02-11-2009, 03:39 PM
Agreed, AR. And you have accurately fingered the culprits. The Jews and Muslims are usually not offended by Christmas carols, so the "offense" is in the mind of the white middle class PC Polizei.

I don't care what class or colour I am or am not - but I absolutely hate fkn christmas carols - they are an insult to anyone with half a brain and a crime against humanity to anyone with a full brain.

Fancy putting that bulldust over PA systems at malls etc. what an insult.

If they were putting over the mullahs calling the faithful to prayer Jono would soon be whinging.

It has nothing to do with being PC - just not wanting to hear bullshit - they get subsidised churches and schools to do their brainwashing in, why can't they keep it in there.

Capablanca-Fan
02-11-2009, 03:57 PM
I don't care what class or colour I am or am not - but I absolutely hate fkn christmas carols - [rest of bigoted atheopathic rant deleted].
You may be a fundy atheist if.... (http://www.tektoonics.com/etc/parody/fundyath.html)

You believe that nativity scenes should be banned from public view, but that anyone objecting to pornography only has to look the other way.
You object to any mention of "God" and "Jesus" in the media and education systems — except as swear words.
You oppose studying telling schoolkids that the Pilgrim Fathers came to America to practise Christianity free of persecution, that the Declaration of Independence mentions a Creator, and that the first public schools used a Bible as a textbook. But you support using Heather Has Two Mommies as wholesome literature.
You start a lawsuit to expunge Christian books from the school libraries in your state because it violates "separation of church and state" that you insist is in the Constitution. Simultaneously you start a lawsuit to defend the right to have books in the same school libraries advocating the religion of Wicca.

Kevin Bonham
02-11-2009, 04:02 PM
I wonder how much of the complaining about Xmas carols being offensive to other religious belief systems is actually motivated by aesthetic (as opposed to atheistic) dislike of the things.

Basil
02-11-2009, 04:06 PM
I wonder how much of the complaining about Xmas carols being offensive to other religious belief systems is actually motivated by aesthetic (as opposed to atheistic) dislike of the things.
There would be a good showing in both camps. Jono's source is an excellent demolition of the second.

Personally I love a good Christmas singalong/ humalong.

Capablanca-Fan
02-11-2009, 04:58 PM
I wonder how much of the complaining about Xmas carols being offensive to other religious belief systems is actually motivated by aesthetic (as opposed to atheistic) dislike of the things.
If aesthetic dislike were the criterion, then much of the annoying music blaring in shops would be banned. Offence is quite different, and not stemming from the allegedly offended groups but PC lefties. Similarly, most Christians have no problem with Orthodox Jews, Muslims and Hindus celebrating.

While the only reason the PC Leftards don't object to these other festivals the way they bleat about Christmas is that multiculturalism has become: praise all cultures apart from the traditional Western ones, and don't judge any culture unfavorably apart from the traditional West.

antichrist
02-11-2009, 05:09 PM
may be a fundy atheist if....
•You believe that nativity scenes should be banned from public view, but that anyone objecting to pornography only has to look the other way.

AC
I will only answer one now as am off shortly.

I object to nativity scene coz is ALL BULLSHIT

Porno if I look or not at least IT EXISTS

antichrist
26-01-2012, 07:09 PM
Former Test cricketer Rodney Hogg has apologised for tweeting that he had written "Allah is a s***" on his Australian flag.

The former international pace bowler, now a media commentator, made the comments on Australia Day through his Twitter account.

A tweet sent around midday stated: "Just put out my aussie flag for Australia Day but I wasn't sure if it would offend Muslims...So I wrote 'Allah is a s***' on it to make sure."

The comment was deleted a short time later after some other Twitter users complained and called it disgraceful.

One called for his immediate sacking from his employer, SEN radio station in Melbourne.

Another angry user wrote "this is a disgraceful thing to say, I hope @Uz-Khawaja sees this," in a reference to the first Muslim cricketer to represent Australia at Test level.

Hogg wrote later in the day: "Bad attempted Australian humour, sorry if I offended you".
The account is not verified but has the username @RMHogg and is linked to a website that Hogg uses to

Hobbes
23-03-2012, 09:46 AM
Carr attacks “working class” and conservatives over race (http://tinyurl.com/7nmzoln)


Labor’s new Foreign Minister Bob Carr cast a disgraceful slur upon his conservative opponents and Australian working people last night. He vented an ugly claim you often hear from the unthinking left in pub discussions or on twitter - that the Australian people are racist and the conservative parties exploit this.


But don’t expect much controversy on the ABC or in the love media because they tend to constantly reaffirm this stuff. It is, of course, a view that is reliant upon the holder considering themselves as more intelligent and tolerant than the so-called “working class”. In the end, it is more about this moral posturing than anything else - it is usually an attempt by the person expressing the view to demonstrate their own tolerance and moral superiority.

Rincewind
23-03-2012, 11:30 AM
Seems to be a massive straw man. Not all working class vote Labor and indeed the alignment of the racist element evident clearly in One Nation was aligned with the Conservative side of politics.

Ian Murray
23-03-2012, 01:53 PM
...it is usually an attempt by the person expressing the view to demonstrate their own tolerance and moral superiority.
While of course I am more tolerant than and morally superior to the redneck right and the baggy-arsed proletariat, I find no need to demonstrate my superiority

Capablanca-Fan
23-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Seems to be a massive straw man. Not all working class vote Labor and indeed the alignment of the racist element evident clearly in One Nation was aligned with the Conservative side of politics.
Rubbish. One Nation was quite leftist in economics, e.g. protectionism. The White Australia policy was started by Labor and repealed by the Liberals.

Rincewind
23-03-2012, 03:16 PM
Rubbish. One Nation was quite leftist in economics, e.g. protectionism. The White Australia policy was started by Labor and repealed by the Liberals.

Funny they way you tease apart the issues to try and distance One Nation from the LNP. The fact of the matter is the preference deals between the two highlights your hypocrisy.

Capablanca-Fan
23-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Funny they way you tease apart the issues to try and distance One Nation from the LNP. The fact of the matter is the preference deals between the two highlights your hypocrisy.
What tosh. While many QLD Nationals advocated preferencing ONP last, Labor's Beattie refused to with his "just vote 1".

ElevatorEscapee
23-03-2012, 08:03 PM
I would like to proffer my answer to the question proposed in the original post: "Is Australia a racist country?".

After very careful consideration, I believe: "no", Australia is not quite a racist country - there are enough of us who believe in equality, and in a "fair go", and I believe that is what should define Australia

Unfotunately, there seems to be a lot of ignorance driven modern propaganda that seeks to polarise and stereotype people.

World War II propaganda inspired racism in Australia by casting the Japanese as "rats" (or inferior human beings) - this wasn't necessarily done in the cause of racism, rather than in the cause of "de-humanising the enemy" to make it more palatable for soldiers to kill them. Of course, the Nazis used similar propaganda to de-humanise the Jewish people.

In the immediate aftermath of World War II, the nation of Australia was greatly enriched by the people who migrated from the war troubled zones of Europe.

In a far too long delayed contrast to the dehumanising propaganda, Australia finally began to take a step forward in a positive direction by dismantling the ridiculous "White Australia" policy in the early 1970s... this was followed by successive Australian governments, (before many other western countries), standing up to the Apartheid regime of South Africa by severing all ties and refusing to deal with Pretoria. It was as if Australia suddenly realised it had a racial conscience.

Unfortunately, I can also see the argument for the people who believe that "yes, Australia is a racist country!" - Indeed, there seems to be an unpalatable, continuing very nasty undertone of racism in Australia.

For my mind, there are far too many Aussies who get off on demonstrating their small minded ignorance by doing things like displaying bumper stickers with a map of Australia, with "F*** Off, we're full!" emblazoned across it. When I see one of those, I feel sickened, and I feel very sad for the ignorance of my fellow countrymen who feel the need to display such things. I cannot help but wonder what Aborignal people think when they see such bumper stickers.

Whilst various negative elements within this country may want to promote racist ideals, I would argue that enough of us are enlightened enough and passionate enough to fight against ignorance and prevent Australia from degenerating back into a "racist country".