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Leonid Sandler
08-07-2009, 09:23 PM
After long negotiations Kasparov will play 12 games match(4 rapid and 8 blitz games) against Karpov starting September 21 in Seville.Lets hope that Gary will return to chess!

Kevin Bonham
08-07-2009, 10:18 PM
I don't think he ever ruled out the odd exhibition match like this so this is probably not the start of a serious comeback.

ER
09-07-2009, 01:34 AM
In our way back from the Airport, after Freytag, Igor made the most witty comment about Kasparov, Chess and Politics!
I leave it for him to tell us about it, however I believe that Garry is young enough and strong enough to come back and play chess at the top level!
Whatever problems he had in the WC match vs Kramnink that led to his retirement later, were owed to his losing time fighting Putin and not to his diminishing superiority over his opponents!

Kevin Bonham
09-07-2009, 03:21 AM
Whatever problems he had in the WC match vs Kramnink that led to his retirement later, were owed to his losing time fighting Putin and not to his diminishing superiority over his opponents!

This isn't correct; Putin had only just been elected at the time and Kasparov was not especially politically active then.

Kasparov's loss may have been partly caused by personal problems affecting his focus level during the match but it is also a fact that he and Kramnik were closely matched on a head to head basis during his career, and that Kramnik outprepared him for that match. At the time Kasparov was still greatly superior to Kramnik in his ability to crush lesser top GMs, but that didn't help him in their match.

ER
09-07-2009, 11:58 AM
This isn't correct; Putin had only just been elected at the time and Kasparov was not especially politically active then.

note the underlined word


Whatever problems he had in the WC match vs Kramnink that led to his retirement later were owed to his losing time fighting Putin and not to his diminishing superiority over his opponents!


and Kasparov was not especially politically active then.

This isn't correct! Kasparov an active communist party from 1984 joined the Central Committee of Komsomol (Youth Movement) in 1987.
In 1990 he changed his politics and participated in the formation of the Democratic Party of Russia.
In 1993 he was active in the creation of the coalition "Choice of Russia"
In 1996 he was a major supporter of Boris Yeltsin's campaign.
Apart from party politics, he wrote several articles, participated in TV debates in Russia, EU and the US and had declared his anti Putin stand before the Kramnik match!

Kevin Bonham
09-07-2009, 07:17 PM
note the underlined word

Yes I note it. Now read what you wrote again carefully. You referred to problems in his match vs Kramnik "that led to his retirement later". That clearly states that the problems in his match with Kramnik were the direct cause of his retirement, but that his retirement happened later. Perhaps you are missing the word "and" somewhere in that sentence.


This isn't correct! Kasparov an active communist party from 1984 joined the Central Committee of Komsomol (Youth Movement) in 1987.
In 1990 he changed his politics and participated in the formation of the Democratic Party of Russia.
In 1993 he was active in the creation of the coalition "Choice of Russia"
In 1996 he was a major supporter of Boris Yeltsin's campaign.

So? That only makes him about as politically active as me (except that I have never joined a party), and the examples you give do not even include one prominent political incident from the four years before his match with Kramnik. Certainly he was nothing like as politically active as he is now and there is no more reason to blame his loss to Kramnik on his political interests than there is to blame Karpov's losses to him on stamp collecting.

antichrist
09-07-2009, 07:30 PM
How do you think Fisher is going against those old champs up there, Capa, Lasker,Morphy etc ? Maybe he is going on strike like he did down here.

ER
09-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Kevin the only similarity I can see between you and Kasparov is that you both have failed to overthrow the system, he in Russia, you in Tasmania!:)
Also apart from not joining a party, you did not contribute to the formation of one!
My arguement, although not accurately expressed in the first posting is his retirement from chess and not his loss to Kramnik!
Reference to previous stages in his political career from 1984 onwards, from political speeches etc to him getting bashed over the head with a chessboard are well documented and in abundance.
My reference to some of his political activities during the time before he finally retired does not necessarily promote him into a successful politician or even a sound politician!
I am not going to continue arguing on this matter because I have more important things to do.
BTW can you please do a Poll striclty about the possible result of this match?

Kevin Bonham
09-07-2009, 08:39 PM
Kevin the only similarity I can see between you and Kasparov is that you both have failed to overthrow the system, he in Russia, you in Tasmania!:)

Who says I was even attempting to overthrow the system here? What system? ;)


Also apart from not joining a party, you did not contribute to the formation of one!

... yet ... :D
Actually I prefer contributing to their destruction; it is much more satisfying.


My arguement, although not accurately expressed in the first posting is his retirement from chess and not his loss to Kramnik!

Yes, that's fair enough then; I think he did retire primarily because he wanted to do other things rather than because his strength was on the skids. Probably his strength had declined a little but he could certainly have remained competitive at world championship contender level for several more years. After all he was not much older when retiring than Anand is now.


BTW can you please do a Poll striclty about the possible result of this match?

I'll put one up at some stage.

Tony Dowden
10-07-2009, 08:00 PM
How do you think Fisher is going against those old champs up there, Capa, Lasker,Morphy etc ? Maybe he is going on strike like he did down here.

:lol: what makes you so sure Bobby is 'up there'?

(Followed your corres game with James with interest by the way)

Saragossa
22-09-2009, 06:18 PM
It's getting played today (Tomorrow here). Have we put bets on who will win the match? My bet is on Kasparov which I think the majority of bets will be placed on however we could be in for an upset.

Tony Dowden
22-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Kasparov will be taking this 'friendly' match extremely seriously even if he maintains the sophistry that as a retired professional he is adopting a non-professional approach ;)

I will be very surprised if he doesn't walk all over Karpov but stranger things have happened (like not Kasparov not winning a single game in his match vs Kasparov).

This video of the first toss for colours then a press conference is quite interesting. Kasparov seems genuinely grateful that Karpov visited him in prison.

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/kasparov-karpov-press-conference-video/#more-16399

Denis_Jessop
23-09-2009, 01:35 PM
A very interesting press conference. Now, apparently, Kas leads Kar 2- 0 - see the following Chess vibes link

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/kasparov-crushes-karpov-on-first-match-day/

DJ

antichrist
23-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Kasparov will be on sbs news tonite at 6.30pm and again at 9.30pm - tell'em A/C sent you

ER
23-09-2009, 06:07 PM
Kasparov will be on sbs news tonite at 6.30pm and again at 9.30pm - tell'em A/C sent you
If I did that I 'd lose my job! :P

Capablanca-Fan
23-09-2009, 07:15 PM
[Event "Match"]
[Site "Valencia ESP"]
[Date "2009.09.22"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Karpov,Ana"]
[Black "Kasparov,G"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2619"]
[BlackElo "2812"]
[EventDate "2009.09.22"]
[ECO "D72"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e4 Nb6 7. Ne2 c5 8. d5 O-O 9. O-O e6 10. Nbc3 Na6 11. h3 exd5 12. exd5 Nc4 13. b3 Nd6 14. Bf4 b6 15. Qd2 Bb7 16. Rad1 Nc7 17. g4 Qd7 18. a4 f5 19. g5 Rad8 20. Bg3 f4 21. Nxf4 Nf5 22. Nb5 Nxb5 23. axb5 Nd4 24. Ne6 0-1 {time}

[Event "Match"]
[Site "Valencia ESP"]
[Date "2009.09.22"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Kasparov,G"]
[Black "Karpov,Ana"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2812"]
[BlackElo "2619"]
[EventDate "2009.09.22"]
[ECO "D31"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4 c6 6. Qc2 Bd6 7. Bxd6 [7.Nxd5?! Bxf4 8.Qe4+ Ne7 9.Nxf4 Qa5+ 10.Kd1 Bf5 ] 7... Qxd6 8. e3 Ne7 9. Bd3 Nd7 [9... b6 idea ... Ba6] 10. Nge2 h6 11. O-O O-O 12. a3 a5 13. Rad1 b6 14. e4 dxe4 15. Nxe4 Qb8 16. N2c3 Ba6 17. Bxa6 Rxa6 18. d5 Nxd5 19. Nxd5 cxd5 20. Rxd5 Ra7 21. Qd2 Nc5 22. Nf6+ gxf6 23. Qxh6 f5 24. Qg5+ Kh8 25. Qf6+ Kg8 26. Rxf5 Ne4 27. Qh4 Re8 28. Rh5 f5 1-0

Tony Dowden
23-09-2009, 08:03 PM
Ouch, Kasparov still plays like a 2700+ player!

But I shouldn't be surprised considering Ivanchuk, Anand and Gelfand are only a few years younger than Kasparov. And the likes of Nigel Short (also mid 40's and only two years younger than Gary) recently cracked 2700 again.

But Karpov - who turns 60 in a couple of years - is playing like a 2600 player struggling to be in the top 100.

Kevin Bonham
24-09-2009, 01:34 AM
Urgh. Check out this total rubbish from Reuters (http://media.smh.com.au/national/breaking-news/chess-legends-face-off-again-747640.html?&from=strap&source=cmailer) - such a factually incorrect report that Ian Rogers, writing in yesterday's Crikey email, correctly described it as making "an even greater hash of the story" than something written by Raymond Keene. :eek: :rolleyes:

Basil
24-09-2009, 01:53 AM
May we have the short version of the list of errors pliss?

ER
24-09-2009, 02:21 AM
There is impressive coverage in all major American, European and Asian News Agencies! Very good for Chess; of course inaccuracies and false reports are to be expected by journos who cover such events with no previous experience or even knowledge on the subject.
They usually go for sensationalism trying to extract some interest for the wider public who think about chess as a boring old people's game!
Instead of going for their throat I think we should strive to have more chess players (mainly youngsters) being involved in journalism.
I know IM James Morris and Jamie Kenmure have shown interest to be a part of it.
BTW James I have sent you all the information you need for the SBS work experience program in the email you suggested long ago. Make sure your school includes SBS in your preferred WE selection.
Jamie, you already are working as a Radio Journalist, you will hear from SBS soon.

Kevin Bonham
24-09-2009, 03:20 AM
May we have the short version of the list of errors pliss?

Really just one big error, stated over and over again (I counted four times the same non-point was made in <2 minutes). The report claims this is a rematch of their aborted 1984-5 first match and that it will "break the stalemate" after 25 years.

The stalemate was actually broken less than a year after the 1984-5 match and they went on to play a total of five World Championship matches.

ER
24-09-2009, 04:28 AM
Karpov wins 3rd game. Grunfeld did not work this time!
4th game to start in a few!
Actually there was nothing wrong with the opening; Kasparov had the advantage and then he blundered (time trouble?)

bobby1972
24-09-2009, 09:31 AM
Kasparov said about the 92 match that FISCHER was winning against a player who was not even in the top 100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!,well what is he doing beating a player who is not in the top 100!!!,i remember he said that it was very bad for chess.why is his match any better,at leat FISCHER waited 20 years this man only lasted 4 short years and its not like he needed the money he just cant stay away he he he.

Capablanca-Fan
24-09-2009, 11:40 AM
Karpov wins 3rd game. Grunfeld did not work this time!

Actually there was nothing wrong with the opening; Kasparov had the advantage and then he blundered (time trouble?)
Dunno about that:

[Event "Match"]
[Site "Valencia ESP"]
[Date "2009.09.23"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Karpov,Ana"]
[Black "Kasparov,G"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2619"]
[BlackElo "2812"]
[EventDate "2009.09.22"]
[ECO "D72"]

{Notes from site} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e4 Nb6 7. Ne2 c5 8. d5 e6 9. O-O O-O 10. Nec3 Na6 11. a4 exd5 12. exd5 Nb4 13. Be3 Bd4 14. a5 Bxe3 15. axb6 Bd4 16. bxa7 Bf5 17. Na3 Rxa7 18. Ncb5 Rxa3 19. Rxa3 Bxb2 20. Re3 Qb6 21. Qe2 Bg7 22. Rd1 Bd7 23. Na3 Bd4 24. Re7 Ba4 25. Rc1 Qf6 26. Rxb7 Bb2 27. Rxc5 Bxa3 28. h4 Nd3 29. Ra5 Nc5 30. Rba7 Qd4 31. Qe3 Qxe3 32. fxe3 Bc1? [32... Bb4 = Kasparov] 33. Kf2 Nd3+ [33... Re8 34. e4 Rc8] 34. Ke2 Bc2?! [34... Nb2 35. Rxa4 Nxa4 36. Rxa4 +/-] 35. d6 Re8? [35... Nb2! 36. d7 Bd1+ 37. Ke1 Bg4 38. Rd5 Rd8 39. Rd4 Bxe3 40. Ra8 Rxa8 41. Bxa8 Bxd7 42. Rxd7 +/- Rybka] 36. Ra8! 1-0


4th game to start in a few!

[Event "Match"]
[Site "Valencia ESP"]
[Date "2009.09.23"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Kasparov,G"]
[Black "Karpov,Ana"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2812"]
[BlackElo "2619"]
[EventDate "2009.09.22"]
[ECO "D31"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4 c6 6. Qc2 Bd6 7. Bxd6 Qxd6 8. e3 Ne7 9. Bd3 g6 10. f3 Nd7 11. Nge2 O-O 12. O-O c5 13. Qd2 a6 14. Rad1 cxd4 15. exd4 Nf6 16. g4 Kg7 17. Qf4 Rd8 18. Rfe1 b5 19. Qxd6 Rxd6 20. Nf4 Kf8 21. h4 Bd7 22. Kf2 Ne8 23. Rc1 Rc8 24. a3 Nc7 25. Nce2 Rb6 26. Rc5 Ne6 27. Nxe6+ Bxe6 28. Rec1 Ke8 29. Nf4 Kd8 30. b4 Ra8 31. h5 Rd6 32. Be2 g5 33. Nd3 1-0 {time, again; White has a position that Karpov himself would love to grind opponents with}

ER
24-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Dunno about that:

Hi Jono how are you? :) I was only mirroring comments of those analysts! :)!

ER
24-09-2009, 04:42 PM
Kasparov said about the 92 match that FISCHER was winning against a player who was not even in the top 100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!,well what is he doing beating a player who is not in the top 100!!!,i remember he said that it was very bad for chess.why is his match any better,at leat FISCHER waited 20 years this man only lasted 4 short years and its not like he needed the money he just cant stay away he he he.
The point is that this kind of matches ie legends of the past vs each other, still attracts attention and makes lots of positive noise about the game! I bet you these series of K vs K (I think there is another one to take place in Paris at the end of the year and maybe more) will attract more media attention than the "proper" WC matches!
People still talk about 1992 Fischer vs Spasky Match more than they do about K vs K for the real WC or even other WC matches that followed!

Kevin Bonham
24-09-2009, 08:40 PM
I bet you these series of K vs K (I think there is another one to take place in Paris at the end of the year and maybe more) will attract more media attention than the "proper" WC matches!

Probably all too true. Unfortunately as this isn't even a serious match at real time controls. It's just an exhibition.


People still talk about 1992 Fischer vs Spasky Match more than they do about K vs K for the real WC or even other WC matches that followed!

Probably true of many of the following WC matches but not all of them.

lost
25-09-2009, 02:34 AM
I think it is good to see the old rivalry comeback between Kasparov and Karpov, however I would be surprised if Kasparov makes a comeback onto the tournament circuit.

What is your thoughts on this?

lost

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2009, 03:04 AM
I think it is good to see the old rivalry comeback between Kasparov and Karpov, however I would be surprised if Kasparov makes a comeback onto the tournament circuit.

What is your thoughts on this?

I agree with you. He is too busy and has nothing left to prove anyway. He will probably keep now and then playing lighthearted events like this one.

lost
25-09-2009, 03:28 AM
I was meant to say "wouldn't be" surprised.

lost

Jesper Norgaard
25-09-2009, 08:11 AM
I think it is good to see the old rivalry comeback between Kasparov and Karpov, however I wouldn't be surprised if Kasparov makes a comeback onto the tournament circuit.

What is your thoughts on this?

I think it is quite likely Kasparov will come back, but unsure to what extent. My bet is that it will not happen until he withdraws from Russian politics officially, and he has stated that he has no intention to leave politics, but hey, all politicians talk like that, with wool in the mouth, until the definitive status quo has changed ... so it could be tomorrow, or in 10 years. We won't know.

But the age is fine, he is only 46, and look how well Korchnoi is playing at 78! My bet is that while Putin is still orchestrating power in Russia behind the curtains, Kaspy will not withdraw politics officially. That probably means exhibition matches only for some time to come.

ER
25-09-2009, 10:45 AM
I agree with Jamie and Jasper! Kasparov will return!
re politics: sooner or later he will bored/tired of the impasse. He will realise the futility and cost of his attempts to change the chaotic world of Russian politics and will quit.
re Chess: He will snap at the potentially failled attempts of Magnus' efforts to become World Champion and will react in a "C'mon gimme that ball, I 'll show you how it's done" way!

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2009, 02:54 PM
re Chess: He will snap at the potentially failled attempts of Magnus' efforts to become World Champion and will react in a "C'mon gimme that ball, I 'll show you how it's done" way!

I don't think those attempts will fail though; I think they will succeed, either in the match after Anand-Topalov or in the one after that.

That is, assuming there are further matches and World Championships. With FIDE one just cannot take these things for granted.

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2009, 03:07 PM
As expected by almost everyone the match was lopsided.

Kasparov won the rapids +3-1 and won the blitz with the same percentage +5=2-1.

antichrist
25-09-2009, 04:10 PM
I agree with Jamie and Jasper! Kasparov will return!
re politics: sooner or later he will bored/tired of the impasse. He will realise the futility and cost of his attempts to change the chaotic world of Russian politics and will quit.
re Chess: He will snap at the potentially failled attempts of Magnus' efforts to become World Champion and will react in a "C'mon gimme that ball, I 'll show you how it's done" way!

If he is not careful he may end up an involuntary Siberian chess tiger and we would all know who would have the last laugh.

ER
25-09-2009, 07:22 PM
As expected by almost everyone the match was lopsided.

Kasparov won the rapids +3-1 and won the blitz with the same percentage +5=2-1.

I voted for Karpov to win, he lost convincingly, commentators in Europe actually add both scores making a very impressive 9-3, so congratulations to Kasparov! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Capablanca-Fan
26-09-2009, 01:35 PM
No surprise at all the score was entirely in accord with what the rating difference would predict.

Kevin Bonham
26-09-2009, 08:12 PM
No surprise at all the score was entirely in accord with what the rating difference would predict.

Which, given that Kasparov is inactive while Karpov is relatively inactive and declining, probably just shows that the FIDE system overrates both by about the same amount.

ER
26-09-2009, 08:28 PM
In a recent interview Karpov claimed that he can still beat any of FIDE's 100 best players list if he gave chess as much time as they do!
Can this statement be taken seriously?

Kevin Bonham
26-09-2009, 08:31 PM
In a recent interview Karpov claimed that he can still beat any of FIDE's 100 best players list if he gave chess as much time as they do!
Can this statement be taken seriously?

I'd be interested to see the exact context. Probably not. :P

ER
26-09-2009, 08:46 PM
I kept the quote, for some reason I did not include the original source which I usually do, but I' ve found a copy here:
http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/2009/09/25-years-on-kasparov-vs-karpov-2009.htm


"If the 1984 match hadn't been played in the USSR I would have won easily." Also, "I don't care [that I've fallen out of the top 100] because I know I can beat any of the top 100 players. The difference is they dedicate all of their time to chess and I do not.")

Kevin Bonham
26-09-2009, 09:12 PM
On my interpretation what he means is that he is still capable of beating any player in a given game (rather than consistently), but does not record good results consistently enough to stay top-100 because they work harder than he does.

I suspect that if he did work harder he would indeed be still in the top 100, given that Korchnoi, who plays far more actively than Karpov, remained in the top 100 when much older than Karpov is now.

Thus I suspect his statement is actually true. If he said he could still beat any of them in a match he would be laughed at. He wouldn't say that though - Karpov, unlike Fischer, isn't a braggart.

ER
26-09-2009, 09:34 PM
Can we include Kasparov in the list of the finest exponents of the Braggart? If yes how does he compare to Fischer? If not, can we say that Braggart is dying a very uneventful death?