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  1. #1
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    ACF Junior Sub-Committee

    Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The handling of juniors is probably best handled at the local club and state level.
    The ACF involvment is best left at things like the NECG, the Aus schools, the Aus junior and junior representation overseas.

    Of course before forming any sort of firm opinion one way or the other I'd want to know the opinions of the likes of Jenni, Libby, Kerry, Charles Z and Richard Gastineau-Hills to name a few.
    I guess I only half agree. As far as day to day running of activities goes. Yes this should definitely be left to the states and preferably junior organisations to handle.

    However there is a definite vacuum in Australia when it comes to junior development. Even things like getting the juniors ready to play overseas - there is just no national focus or plan. This is where I hoped the NECG stuff would help, as it gave parents and children the opportunity to talk to other juniors and coaches and get advise and recommendations.

    It seems to me, that often decisions are taken by the ACF on Junior matters, without them having a proper undersanding or the full facts. Often junior friendly people such as Bill Gletsos and Denis Jessop try to get the junior bodies recommendations and vote accordingly. However this practise is not across the board. If a motion is put forward without notice, and they can't get hold of the junior people, they will often abstain and although this is very noble and correct, it doesn't necessarily result in a correct decision being made.

    I have given this a lot of thought over the last few years - I toyed with the idea of a National Junior Organisation, which took on responsibility for our own tournaments etc. However the juniors and adults are very intertwined at the elite level and it would not be good to go in different directions.

    I have come to the conclusion that what we need is a permanent Junior sub-committee. One of the ACF Vice-Presidents could also be the sub-committee head, so there is a link between the ACF executive and the sub-committee. Each state and territory would have 1 vote, although more than 1 person could take part in e-mail debates. I would suggest using e-mail, rather than phone hookups, as a cost saving mechanism, although MSN messenger or something like that could be used as well.

    The Junior sub-committee would then take on responsibility for all National junior matters and organisation. A forum would exist for coming up with development ideas, there would be a true national focus. As an example Charles Zworestine and Roly Eime have DOP'd many Aus Juniors. There are a number of problems with the Aus juniors and Charles and Roly keep documenting these in their reports to the ACF and the ACF keep filing them and nothing is done. These reports could go to the junior sub-committee and action taken - amend bylaws whatever.

    The Junior Sub-committee would be responsible for allocating tournaments etc. All recommendations and by-law changes would then go to the ACF council meeting for approval and ratification. The ACF would thus keep control of the juniors (I know there will be some adults in there having a panic attack at the thought of losing control ). However the junior people are the ones with the knowledge and interest in taking the juniors forward, so it makes sense to have a sub-committee. I have to say at the moment I find the current way of doing things, very patronising.

    I'm going to create a thread for this for comment, but please let's have a decent debate on this and not slanging matches at each other.
    Last edited by jenni; 17-07-2004 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    It seems to me, that often decisions are taken by the ACF on Junior matters, without them having a proper undersanding or the full facts. Often junior friendly people such as Bill Gletsos and Denis Jessop try to get the junior bodies recommendations and vote accordingly. However this practise is not across the board. If a motion is put forward without notice, and they can't get hold of the junior people, they will often abstain and although this is very noble and correct, it doesn't necessarily result in a correct decision being made.
    Yes I always discuss junior matters with Richard and try and get input from Charles and Kerry. Where possible if a motion without notice is put forward involving juniors, I'll try and get this delayed by a week or two and have it decided by email vote, however if this fails or is not practical, I would generally vote based on my understanding of the NSWJCL's views as they stand, otherwise if I have no feeling for what their views might be I'll abstain.

    Personally I would have no problem with supporting your ACF Junior Sub-Committee proposal.

  3. #3
    CC Candidate Master jeffrei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    I have come to the conclusion that what we need is a permanent Junior sub-committee. One of the ACF Vice-Presidents could also be the sub-committee head, so there is a link between the ACF executive and the sub-committee. Each state and territory would have 1 vote, although more than 1 person could take part in e-mail debates. I would suggest using e-mail, rather than phone hookups, as a cost saving mechanism, although MSN messenger or something like that could be used as well. The Junior sub-committee would then take on responsibility for all National junior matters and organisation. A forum would exist for coming up with development ideas, there would be a true national focus.
    Ya, this sounds like a good idea to me. What exactly is required to put it into action?

  4. #4
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrei
    Ya, this sounds like a good idea to me. What exactly is required to put it into action?
    Well I would assume a period of debate to get different ideas and then modify the basic idea accordingly. It would need to be put into a wider forum than this. e.g. it needs to go to people like Ian Murray, etc who are aren't BB denizens.

    Then it needs to go up to ACF for agreement and implementation.

    I'll start sending the basic idea off to other people to think about it and I'll also ask Denis Jessop how the exact implementation would work. I would think sub-committees can be set up at any time. It doesn't need constitution changes or anything like that.

  5. #5
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    I'll start sending the basic idea off to other people to think about it and I'll also ask Denis Jessop how the exact implementation would work.
    Go for it! It has my non-existant vote.

  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    I'll start sending the basic idea off to other people to think about it and I'll also ask Denis Jessop how the exact implementation would work. I would think sub-committees can be set up at any time. It doesn't need constitution changes or anything like that.
    Correct.
    Also By-Laws can be created or changed at anytime by simple majority vote of Council.

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I have been thinking along similar lines, as there are far too many Council matters where things have to be held-up, drawn-out or in some cases even outright reversed because of the difficulties involved in getting junior chess input into ACF Council decisions relevant to junior chess.
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  8. #8
    CC International Master Kerry Stead's Avatar
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    Jenni,
    Sounds like a good idea ... I've noticed the non-issue that junior chess is on many occasions too, particularly now that I'm more 'in the loop' in regards to decision-making.
    However I fear that you may have already booked my place on the sub-committee ... conveniently its an ACF Vice-President that is the head of the it!
    Somehow I think I'll have to try and scale back some of my chess commitments if people want me to fulfil a role like this, which has a more 'big picture' outlook than the usual 'day to day' admin roles.

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Stead
    However I fear that you may have already booked my place on the sub-committee ... conveniently its an ACF Vice-President that is the head of the it!
    or is it GW that jenni has in mind to combat the guru in the vic

  10. #10
    CC International Master Kerry Stead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    or is it GW that jenni has in mind to combat the guru in the vic
    Gary Wastell is the ACF Deputy President ... Paul Broekhuyse is the other Vice President

  11. #11
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    or is it GW that jenni has in mind to combat the guru in the vic
    It has to be some-one with real knowledge and understanding of both children and parents and I do not belive that GW has that.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    It has to be some-one with real knowledge and understanding of both children and parents and I do not belive that GW has that.
    so, it has to be kerry then

  13. #13
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Stead
    However I fear that you may have already booked my place on the sub-committee ... conveniently its an ACF Vice-President that is the head of the it!
    Somehow I think I'll have to try and scale back some of my chess commitments if people want me to fulfil a role like this, which has a more 'big picture' outlook than the usual 'day to day' admin roles.
    I have to admit I did have you in mind I think this is important enough to take priority. The problem is we are all spread too thin and it is easy to get to the point that you no longer function effectively.

    Long term this could actual result in an easing of work load, as there will be a committee of hopefully dedicated junior aligned people to take on tasks.

  14. #14
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    so, it has to be kerry then
    Not really - Kerry would be good to kick this off, as he has so much experience in junior affairs. However long term all it would take is someone who is prepared to head the sub-committee and take back recommendations and promote them to the council.

  15. #15
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Obviously I would think the Gold Coast club would want to be kept in the loop. I'll talk to our other committee members to see what our expectations would be. I think Box Hill would deserve an input also.

    Committee's have a tendancy to get bogged down by protocols. There's only any point in going down this track if it becomes an instrument for dyanamic change (where change is necesssary). It should be implicit that any recommendations made by the sub-committee are adopted by the ACF, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
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