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  1. #1
    CC International Master Paul Cavezza's Avatar
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    Most aggressive opening for black V d4.

    Hi all,

    Having realised i am very likely rubbish with the king's indian, especially if my opponent plays randomly to a certain extent and not the book moves, i'm looking to learn something new. I'm not a great positional or pawn structure type player, so I don't really love the closed positions (or should weak pawn players prefer the closed ones? ). I'm decent tactically and have time to study an opening in depth so i'm looking for something that will really crush weaker players if it's not played against correctly.

    Any tips?

    Thanks,
    Paul

    PS. Had the nimzo suggested to me as I apparently like to build slowly.. which may be why my king's indian reeks.
    PPS. Also, i'd like to stay away from any move which will require me to learn 4000 openings. Something that has limited responses would be nice..
    Last edited by Paul Cavezza; 01-04-2009 at 10:00 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    You might like the Benko. It's aggressive, and has a sound strategic basis.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Paul Cavezza's Avatar
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    yeah benko looks very interesting early on... here's a nice one...

    Georgiev V Rogers
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1117551

    will look into it

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablito15
    Hi all,

    Having realised i am very likely rubbish with the king's indian, especially if my opponent plays randomly to a certain extent and not the book moves, i'm looking to learn something new. I'm not a great positional or pawn structure type player, so I don't really love the closed positions (or should weak pawn players prefer the closed ones? ). I'm decent tactically and have time to study an opening in depth so i'm looking for something that will really crush weaker players if it's not played against correctly.

    Any tips?

    Thanks,
    Paul


    PS. Had the nimzo suggested to me as I apparently like to build slowly.. which may be why my king's indian reeks.
    PPS. Also, i'd like to stay away from any move which will require me to learn 4000 openings. Something that has limited responses would be nice..
    I don't know what your strength is but your comment emphasises a point I always make, namely that before getting deeply into particular openings one needs to know something about opening theory and principles in general. Then if one's opponent starts playing random moves that aren't in "the book" and so probably weaker than those that are, you will be able to counter them effectively by relying on general principles. (This is my chance once again to mention that one of the main lines still current against the Latvian Gambit was worked out over the board by Smyslov years ago who hadn't seen the opening before then.)

    Moreover, when playing a particular opening, it is essential to know what the aims and principles of that opening are. If they are known, one's general understanding of that opening will allow one to play it effectively against non-book moves.

    The King's Indian can be susceptible to dangerous attacks by White but there are others that are not perhaps as risky. I wouldn't go for the Benko myself as it is limited and rather quirky. The Nimzo-Indian, the Grunfeld, Queen's Indian and the various lines in the Queen's Gambit are all worth a look and in my opinion are much better propositions than the Benko. There is also the Benoni which can be a lot of fun if you like living dangerously or even the Dutch.

    DJ

    PS I notice that your query asks about the most aggressive opening against d4 and that you are apparently a player who likes to build slowly. Those two things are almost mutually exclusive. No immediately aggressive defence to d4 will allow a slow build up nor will one to e4 for that matter. On the other hand an opening that appears at first to be slow and even passive can lead to aggression later depending on how the game develops.
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 02-04-2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason: PS added
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  6. #6
    CC International Master Paul Cavezza's Avatar
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    thanks for your reply.
    I do understand the general principles of the king's indian and I feel comfortable with the tactics... however when opposition players don't castle kingside early in the game I struggle to understand black's plan.. especially if white plays g4 (ok g4 you play h5 and try to attack down the H file.. but if he hasn't castled it's much more likely he'll get the h file:>!) or h4 or something like that. I also struggle when white doesn't play e4 and plays a move like e3 (makes it difficult to play e5, and therefore the f pawn also). Also! all the book sequences involve white wasting a hell of a lot of time with things like f3 f5, be3 f4, bf2 g4 and things which just seem to give black a lot of time. I can play well against those "book moves" as they seem to play into black's plan and give him tempi to push his kingside pawns. I understand the point of having the Bishop on that diagonal but it's something a weaker player wouldn't naturally do.
    Last edited by Paul Cavezza; 02-04-2009 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    The Benoni is pretty sharp but a fair amount of theory will have to be studied if you want to get the max from somebodies slip up. With that said near every opening can be aggresive if you seek it but ultimately you will have to play the position, don't do anything that looks unnatural for the position you are in.
    And still, no one has satisfactorily proven, that it isn't opposite day.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    1... chuck board over head is quite an aggressive response
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #9
    CC International Master Paul Cavezza's Avatar
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    ah!! and here i was trying 1. kick under the table... inaccurate!

  10. #10
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    Benoni

    I play the Benoni myself. It works great in correspondence largely because against one critical line black can sac a pawn and draw the ending. however over the board this is just too painfull.

    Furthermore there are some lines which are shared with the king's Indian so if you dislike the king's Indian then the Benoni is not a good choice.

    A lot depends on your other openings. If you play the French then answer

    1. d4 with e6. Then if white plays 2.c4 you can play dutch, Benoni or even queens gambit

  11. #11
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    Whoops I misread your reply.

    If you have been playing King's Indian Benoni is a good choice. If white messes around you can have great fun on the queenside. However it is a high risk high reward opening.

  12. #12
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    Don't give me that fludey! You are totally out of character! You are meant to recommend the charlick aka englund gambit!
    .

  13. #13
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    Englund Gambit

    The Englund gambit is very tricky but if white reads the last chapters of the book by Stefan Bucker he keeps the advantage. Marcus Raine did that to me.

    Also white can play

    1.d4 e5 2.e4 with some form of the open game which is not what i would want to face.

    On the other hand the Englund gambit is fun at fast time controls.

    P.S. I own Grob's book on the opening which is rare.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    I wouldn't touch the Englund. White can just give the P back and leave Black misplaced, e.g.

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  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Years ago, David Hacche, one of the strongest Victorian players and a fine exponent of 1.d4 told me something along the lines of:
    "You jus't can't try funny stuff against a strong Queen's Pawn player! Instead of trying to surprise them with gambits etc, you better try to understand the subtleties of 1.d4. You will end up learning good chess in the end!
    As far as the Englund thingy is concerned I have played it in tournaments and have scored some surprise wins with it, having lost quite a few vs stronger opposition! In final analysis Jono is, as usual, correct: Against stronger players you will simply be outplayed!
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