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  1. #1
    CC FIDE Master george's Avatar
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    Mt Buller Championships

    Hi All,

    I will post on here as things develop. One thing that has come to light is that we can provide free buses from Mansfield to Mt Buller and back but not Melbourne to Mt Buller - the cost of that would run to the order of $20,000 for the three events and so is impossible.

    Financial guarantees deposits of monies and signed agreements are being done as we speak. In my submission to ACF I have a budget of $2,000 for buses which will cover the necessary funds for buses to get people to the venue from Mansfield and back before the tourneys and at the conclusion.

    Regards
    George Howard

  2. #2
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by george
    Hi All,

    I will post on here as things develop. One thing that has come to light is that we can provide free buses from Mansfield to Mt Buller and back but not Melbourne to Mt Buller - the cost of that would run to the order of $20,000 for the three events and so is impossible.

    Financial guarantees deposits of monies and signed agreements are being done as we speak. In my submission to ACF I have a budget of $2,000 for buses which will cover the necessary funds for buses to get people to the venue from Mansfield and back before the tourneys and at the conclusion.

    Regards
    George Howard
    I think I am missing something - what is the point of having buses from Mansfied and back? Is there a train station there or something?

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    I think I am missing something - what is the point of having buses from Mansfied and back? Is there a train station there or something?
    ill help out here. there is a coach service from melbourne to mansfield. timetable is here http://www.victrip.com.au/timetables...=vline&id=V405

  4. #4
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    I just want to make sure I have things clear here. People going to Mt Buller for a 2 day schoosl comp are now expected to fly to Melbourne, get a bus to Mansfield and then another bus to the venue? I think they are going to spend more time on the bus than playing chess!

  5. #5
    CC International Master Brian_Jones's Avatar
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    Now come on Jenni - don't be negative!

  6. #6
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Jones
    Now come on Jenni - don't be negative!
    I am trying to be positive, but it is hard to be when I have had e-mails from parents from all over Australia saying how disappointed they are with the ACF decision.

    I understand there is a group who are planning to go to the Asian Juniors in Singapore and another big tournament in China in January, rather than Mt Buller.

    Bit disappointing if this happens.

  7. #7
    CC FIDE Master george's Avatar
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    Hi ALL,

    I am approaching this from a can do positive attitude as will the rest of the Core Organising Group the constitution of which will be made public after all guarantees from Mt Buller have been finalised COB thursday.

    Jenni I know you wanted Canberra for the schools and I agreed with you on many points but im hoping you can be as positive as possible re Mt Buller.

    If you have issues please please come up with workable solutions within the constraints of the Preliminary Working Budget you got yesterday. There will be many details and little problems but Mt Buller is where it is and the offsets are the funding etc etc Constantly talking of distance issues is not going to help anyone merely stating the obvious over and over is destructive - anyone can look at a map of Victoria see where Mt Buller is and say ok its there , alright I want to play so I make the time.

    With Respect and Regards
    George

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by george
    . . . Constantly talking of distance issues is not going to help anyone merely stating the obvious over and over is destructive - anyone can look at a map of Victoria see where Mt Buller is and say ok its there , alright I want to play so I make the time.
    Oh man, you soo need a PR adviser. Where's Rambukwhatshisname?

    See, you're response is not going to help. It'll just rally people to jenni's corner. What you do is this. Just bang out the positives, if any, of the MBII deal, focus on those, and try as much as possible to divert attention away from minuses and onto the pluses. The distance thing is an issue but your aim must be to dilute it.

    AR

  9. #9
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Actually I don't have a corner - I would like to see Mt Buller succeed if it is what we have to have.

    I do feel it is disappointing when something that was promised as a way of making things easier suddenly disappears - makes me lose a fair bit of credibility, as it is one of the things that I have been using to tell people it won't be as hard as they think, because look you can just fly into Melbourne, be picked up by a bus and whisked off to the venue.

    Now I have to go back to those same people and say well actually sorry - now you have to fly into Melbourne with tired fractious kids, find some bus station, load them and the luggage on the bus get to Mansfield load it all off the bus and then get on another bus and do it all again. Probably doesn;t sound too hard to the adults, but you try doing it with a bunch of 11 year olds. And at the back of your mind you know you have to have them in good playing condition for the comp the next day. I am glad I have all older kids now.

    Incidentally I didn't particularly want a schools comp for Canberra - what I wanted was a schools comp that met the needs of the parents and players. Mt Buller doesn't.

    These are some of the comments I have had today.

    "Thanks, Jenni. The way they treat Juniors and School events is very disappointing.

    Every chess parent I have talked to in the past few days were really worried that the Juniors and Schools comp being held in Mt Buller. I will have to wait for the package coming out to make decision whether it is worth to go - even with the School Comp."

    and

    " sorry to bother you at such an interesting time...the whole Mt. Bulla issue etc, but I just thought you would like to know that I have spoken to many, many parents of juniors and they are very against a tourney at Mt Bulla."

    I am actually doing my best to reassure people and say we can make it into a good comp, but as I said before it doesn't help to find selling points vanishing.

    Can I have reassurance form George that the other things that I have been using are kind of set in concrete and won't change.

    i.e.

    The entry fees of $50 and $55
    The prize fund (roughly $5,000)
    The $4,000 development grant

  10. #10
    CC International Master Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    I am trying to be positive, but it is hard to be when I have had e-mails from parents from all over Australia saying how disappointed they are with the ACF decision.

    I understand there is a group who are planning to go to the Asian Juniors in Singapore and another big tournament in China in January, rather than Mt Buller.

    Bit disappointing if this happens.

    As you know I've often vented my disgust at the way the ACF treats it's juniors and often pays scant regard to their interests and practical issues. I agree the situation is less than desirable.

    However, George has demonstrated real leadership over this issue and rightly deserves our full support. It must have been enormously difficult for him to have rescued this situation which was not directly of his making, and he has shown a degree of self-sacrifice the ACF hardly deserves.

    I agree AR that George's words taken a face value sound a little hollow. But I suspect he is working extremely hard to hold things together, and is gently trying to douse fires.

    It's right that Jenni has raised these issues and the ACF should ignore it at its peril. But given an amazing effort to clutch this deal from the fire, perhaps it would be better to be resigned to the situation this year, and register our desire that the ACF gives greater consideration to the interests of its juniors.
    Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

  11. #11
    CC FIDE Master george's Avatar
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    Hi Jenni,

    Yes they are set in concrete.

    Regards
    George Howard

  12. #12
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Thanks George

  13. #13
    CC FIDE Master george's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    This is the official text of the minutes from last nights meeting from Jey ACF Secretary. Then follows some explanation as to what the modifications were as I explained last night.

    "Item 3 - Bids for Australian Open,Junior and Schools Finals

    Formal bids were submitted bt three organisations:CV (to hold all 3 events);ACTJCL (for the School events):and GH as main organiser of a revised Mt Buller bid on behalf of the ACF (to hold all 3 events).

    GH stepped down as chair of the meeting, and GW,as Deputy President ,was the acting Chair for the duration of the discussion and decision on this issue.

    GH presented the submission on the revised Mt Buller bid for the Australian Open,Junior and Schools events,referring to the attached documents presented to Council. GH stated that he would modify the composition of the Junior prizes,and specified that he was assured by the Mt Buller administration that they would deposit a $20,000 bond within 72 hours on a joint bank account as a token of their good faith with the ACF. In response to a query , GH also stated that whilst he would be happy to indemnify the ACF from any financial losses, he also thought that it was appropriate in that case that if there was a profit made , there should be a 50/50 split of any profits between the ACF and the organiser.

    DC presented the CV bid submission, and stated that the Juniors and Schools finals would be held in Box Hill,and that the Open would be held in the Glen Era Town Hall. DC referred to the attached documents,which contained details of the CV bid.

    LS presented the bid for the Australian Schools Finals on behalf of the A CTJCL,and referred to the attached documents that contained details of the ACTJCL bid. The ACTJCL bid would ensure that the School events would be held in December,separate from the Mt Buller Open and Junior Events.

    After the presentations there were numerous questions asked of GH,DC and LS by Council Members and Representatives from Associated Bodies.

    Motion:"that the ACF Mt Buller bid,with changes and assurances as given ,for the Australian Open,Australian Junior and the 2004 Australian School finals be accepted
    Moved:GH
    Seconded DM

    For - BG,NG,IM,TC,DM,DJ,KB
    Against - DC
    Abstain - GH,JH,GW
    Outcome - Motion carried 7-1

    GH stated that he would inform Mt Buller of the outcome of the Council decision , and request Mt Buller to lodge the $20,000 bond into the joint account,as agreed by the Mt Buller management. In response to a question,GH stated that if this were not undertaken within 72 hours , he would come back to Council so that the other bids could be considered. GH also stated that the contract would be signed with Mt Buller within 72 hours of the Council decision.

    DC stated that the CV bids were still available for Council consideration if after 72 hours,the contracts were not signed and the $20,000 bond not lodged. DC asked,and received a guarantee from GH,that the ACF would not suffer any financial loss from GH running the Australian Open,Junior and Schools events on behalf of the ACF in Mt Buller. Gh in response to a question from KB, also stated that he would try to get the local supermarket to deliver food daily.

    DC,on behalf of CV , also wanted it explicitly stated in the official Minutes,that CV did not endorse or support the Mt Buller events,even though the event is being held in Victoria. He pointed out that if there was any adverse outcome from the organization and/or conduct of the events in Mt Buller,it should be acknowledged that this Council decision was made without the support of CV.

    Council also agreed to GH's suggestion that GW be the official ACF liaison inany dealings with the Mt Buller issue.

    The question of which state would have an extra team in the 2004 Mt Buller Australian Schools events (my comment - to avoid possible bye) was also deferred for email discussion at a later time"

    This is what happened last night - explanation - the change that was agreed to was reducing the Junior Prizes from about $9,000 to about $5,000 still more than was offered at Adelaide Junior and that the $4,000 that would have been available be used to establish a Mercure Chalet Mt Buller Junior Chess Develpement Fund. This was agreed by myself and later agreed to by Mt Buller management.

    Regards to ALL
    George Howard
    Last edited by george; 13-07-2004 at 05:28 PM.

  14. #14
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by george
    Hi All,

    This is the official text of the minutes ...

    As I said before, George has shown real spine. In appreciation, I will try very hard to go to this event to help make it a success. And if I get their, I voluneer myself for "duties".

    Three cheers for GH!

  15. #15
    Account Suspended Libby's Avatar
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    ggrayggray 7/7/04
    I would suspect as i have said before that buses would be provided from melbourne to mt buller, so that means parents and juniors from interstate would only need to pay for flights to melbourne, so the cost is very similiar to holding the aussie juniors in melbourne.
    george 9/7/04
    The transport from Melbourne to Mt Buller to the Events at the commencement and conclusion will be covered with special bus transport laid on by the Organisers at no cost to the participants.
    then

    george 13/7/04
    One thing that has come to light is that we can provide free buses from Mansfield to Mt Buller and back but not Melbourne to Mt Buller - the cost of that would run to the order of $20,000 for the three events and so is impossible.
    I don't think the wicked witches from Canberra are trying to be overly negative, pedantic or unreasonable. Nor are we sulking over the failure of our own bid for the Schools competition. As Jenni quite rightly asserts, we were not particularly desperate to run the schools in the ACT - we just wanted to run it in a sensible location for the benefit of our "constituents" - that is, junior chess players.

    Because Mt Buller is a relatively remote location and because the schools is such a short event, getting to and from the venue is a pretty major consideration. It seems (as quoted) those organising the new bid had given assurances about transport. On what basis were these assurances made? In making such an offer who was ever going to be paying for the "free" buses - the ACF, Accor, Mt Buller (?) - they would always have been a major expense. Why was the offer ever made? Where did it sit in the budget for the events?

    I don't think those questions are unreasonable. Nor should they be read as a failure to support the event. The whole option of flying into Melbourne, finding the bus station, getting to Mansfield and then on to Buller seems so ridiculous that we will investigate what we can come up with for our own player population direct from Canberra. We will still encourage them to play. We will want the highest possible representation of ACT players at the event and we will do everything we can to make that happen. We will also be prepared to pull our weight to ensure everything runs as well as it can at the event

    Irrespective of sponsorship, irrespective of the amount of work the organisers of Mt Buller have put in, junior organisations have to report to junior players and junior parents. They ask us the questions, they tell us their concerns, they express their dissatisfaction to us. It is our responsibility to follow through. This should not be seen as an attempt to stand in the way of the future of Australian chess - many of these players are the future of Australian chess.

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