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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Endgame Education

    Another gem.
    Another cock-up.
    Another rating point flushed.
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    Duggan (black) has this from a Dutch and plays 26.Qxh4, busting white's k-side pawns and winning one to boot. Bravo.

    What followed was miserable and shan't be published unless sufficient money is offered. However, this thread concerns itself with how should black proceed (to move) from the position below?:

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    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    That Bishop at d7 must be one of the worst in the history of Chess. However, it can be activated, maybe with giving up the extra Pawn.
    From first sight, ... Re8 looks good, followed sooner rather than later with the e - Pawn push!
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  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    I think an immediate b5 has to be worth a try.

  4. #4
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    To win in this position, the following applies.

    1) Black must keep the rooks on the board
    2) to open the board, pawns must be pushed, every pawn exchange though, improves draw chances

    With correct play, I think its a draw

  5. #5
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    1..dxc4 2.bxc4 c5 intending to take on a4 with the bishop, creating the chance for passed pawns on both sides of the board.
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  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    My thought process after a quick look:

    What would white do with the move if it were his turn?
    - c5 is tempting, trying to close the position further and prevent black from opening a second front there and the potential to create weaknesses. This might give black a target to attack with ...b6 soon though.
    - Pushing the h pawn might be good, although it won't queen any time soon, it might be a lot more annoying on h6 where it could be supported by the bishop if necessary.
    - Swapping pawns when behind is usually good, maybe cxd5 but this allows the opening of the e-file which black seems to get a rook onto first.

    Conclusion, probably nothing that white can do should have black too worried. Black wants to open the queenside, but the immediate ...b5 doesn't look particularly good. Maybe something like Rh7 Kf7 Rah8 to tie white down a bit and then look at opening the queenside.
    meep meep

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Genuinely difficult and confusing position. Hardly fair to Gunner to win a pawn with a nice tactic only to then have to confront Dvoretsky-book material.

    I'm not sure there's a "right" answer to this one either. All the plans have their advantages and their disadvantages. For instance, fireeater's plan to create passed pawns on both sides of the board has the cost of allowing white to create a passed pawn too, and a fairly annoying looking one (to me at least).

    My own predeliction would be to attack immediately, because I know that rook and OCB endings are heavily in favour of the side with the initiative rather than necessarily the side with the material, and if I get stuck in a passive position here I may be a pawn up but I certainly won't win and could lose.

    I'd play ...Kh7 ideally followed quickly by ...Rg8 and ...f4. At that point when the position best suited it I'd sacrifice the e-pawn to activate the bishop which will go to f5 and then e4. Quite possibly I will get the pawn back this way anyhow as once the rook clears off my king may be able to mop up the h-pawn, but if not, I'll settle for the initiative as it is often decisive alone.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 01-11-2008 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I'd play ...Kh7 ideally followed quickly by ...Rg8 ...
    In what is good news for me or bad news for Kevin , that is exactly what black played from the position.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #9
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    The dc4 idea looks best to me. Aside from what has already been mentioned, it also opens up lines for blacks bishop. It also tempts white to create a passed pawn with d5, which I think would be harmful only to white (requires opening the e file).

  10. #10
    CC International Master Carl Gorka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham

    I'm not sure there's a "right" answer to this one either. All the plans have their advantages and their disadvantages. For instance, fireeater's plan to create passed pawns on both sides of the board has the cost of allowing white to create a passed pawn too, and a fairly annoying looking one (to me at least).
    To create a fairly annoying looking passed d-pawn, White would have to allow Black 2 connected queenside passed pawns. I don't think the passed d-pawn looks that annoying

    One of the main ways to win in endgames is to create hassles for your opponent in more than one place. Thus creating 2 weaknesses for an opponent to defend or 2 distant passed pawns for him to try to stop.

    The dxc4 and c5 plan also opens the position for Black's bishop while his a8 rook is ideally (for now) placed behind his passed pawn. Black is in complete control of h7 which renders the white h-pawn relatively harmless. A d-pawn will struggle to make it to d7 unless Black is not careful, and if white should attempt to win this position that he is trying to hold, then he's gonna have to put all his efforts into helping the d-pawn, which may not be the optimum use of his pieces.

    I'd play dxc4 with little thought in this position as enough general principles seem to be in my favour and there seems no tactical refutation. The thought of activating my pieces would be high in my mind, and I'd be willing to swap some pawns for this end.
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  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Perhaps ... dxc4; bxc4 b5. This also makes an outside passer, and clears more lines unless White allows very strong Q-side passers.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Qld

    Jono, is your event over? Did you end up on top?
    God exists. Short and to the point.

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  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Jono, is your event over? Did you end up on top?
    Less than half-way through; have another weekend of it.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Ta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Less than half-way through; have another weekend of it.
    Ta - saw that now on Garvin's thread. Good luck!
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Perhaps ... dxc4; bxc4 b5. This also makes an outside passer, and clears more lines unless White allows very strong Q-side passers.
    Any merit in doubling on the h-file to tie white down a bit and then opening the queenside?
    meep meep

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