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Thread: Analyse this!

  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Analyse this!

    Here is my game from last week's Brisbane Club Champs. Apart from the usual (turning a winning position into a loss), the game is offered for a number of reasons.

    1. IMO it's reasonably exciting.
    2. It becomes quite tactical - especially in the form of ghosts!
    3. The imbalance.
    4. Two questions for you!

    1. Can you identify white's move which drops +2.0 analysis points bringing the game to approximately level?
    In the game, the move was made with a rush of blood to the head. Naughty Gunner - especially in light of the correct move which had been played for (Answers in white text for the next person).

    2. In the game, would you have played 15.h3 or other?
    No engines thanks - it defeats the purpose (as always). Answers in white text. All other commentary welcome in regular text.

    [Event "Brisbane Club Champs"]
    [Date "2008.10.09"]
    [Round "2"]
    [White "Howard Duggan"]
    [Black "John Alkin"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [WhiteElo "1493"]
    [BlackElo "1629"]
    [ECO "D05"]

    PGN Viewer
     

    Please excuse white's rolling blunders in the last third while surfing the increment.
    Last edited by Basil; 12-10-2008 at 08:51 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  2. #2
    CC International Master Miranda's Avatar
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    Not bad!

    [I suck at chess, so I won't even TRY to analyse ]

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Duggan, I don't understand your 23 Nh3, why not Nxf7?
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  4. #4
    CC International Master WhiteElephant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justaknight
    Duggan, I don't understand your 23 Nh3, why not Nxf7?
    After Nxf7, Qh4 looks pretty good.

  5. #5
    CC International Master WhiteElephant's Avatar
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    Just a few brief comments.

    Move 15 - tricky decision whether it is better to lose the c or h pawn. If black got the c Pawn he would get penetration along the c file and the b2 Bishop looks uncomfortable. Swapping it for the f6 Knight gives black the g file for some play. Having said that, I would have preferred to keep the h pawn because it looks dangerous had black co-ordinated his attack better.

    Definitely would have swapped Bishops after 16. Be5, followed by Qf3. Looks fairly solid for white after that.

    Not sure about the Ra5-c5 manouver. Maybe try to break instead with c4 or Qe2 followed by e4.

    After 24. ...e5 black is looking good.

  6. #6
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    Re 1), 22.Ng5 which was punished as per the game (Qe7!). 2), I lean towards Nf3 on a quick look.

    Re WhiteElephant and c pawn vs h pawn, if Black takes on c2, White can play Rac1, which gets an ending up a piece for 2 pawns (I think), which should be winning. (Maybe it isn't so clear, I guess it is hard to make progress, and Black might get annoying central pawns.) Also if if 15.h3 Qxc2 16.Nc4!? might be even better (can't be bothered working it out, tricky).

  7. #7
    CC International Master WhiteElephant's Avatar
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    Yeah, Manga. After Rc1, Rooks and Queens get swapped off so probably better for white to simplify.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justaknight
    Duggan, I don't understand your 23 Nh3, why not Nxf7?
    As WE says, Qh4 mates.
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    As WE says, Qh4 mates.
    lol sorry
    https://www.nswca.org.au/index.php
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  10. #10
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    Obviously white did miss some stronger forced continuations.
    But is that the main reason that white lost? Instead of throwing lines/moves at everyone let me ask a general question.

    "What should you do if you are piece up"
    And the answer is: Consolidate!

    Therefore, white's first mistake was that he was happy with a double-edged game where he was attacking the black king, while his opponent was attacking the white king. This approach was wrong in principle!

    IF YOU ARE PIECE UP ALL THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS CONSOLIDATE AND START EXCHANGING PIECES!
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    IF YOU ARE PIECE UP ALL THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS CONSOLIDATE AND START EXCHANGING PIECES!
    but not before making sure you can do something effective with the piece you will be left with
    .

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    Instead of throwing lines/moves at everyone let me ask a general question.
    That's a shame. I was hoping to test you! It's a difficult position for a human OTB.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    "What should you do if you are piece up"
    And the answer is: Consolidate!
    Agreed. But how? Are you talking about the one opportunity for the bishop exchange?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    Therefore, white's first mistake was that he was happy with a double-edged game where he was attacking the black king, while his opponent was attacking the white king.
    Wrong wrong wrong.
    Wrong 1. Telling white what he was happy with, attributes powers of mind-reading to yourself well beyond your actual powers. I'm prepared to accept that I didn't have the ability to find the right ideas (which you haven't offered), but to say I was happy with a particular approach is simply wrong. White was very concerned about aspects of his position following the position that appeared after going a piece up.
    Wrong 2. Were you so delighted with quoting the textbook principle of 'trading while material up' that didn't properly assess this game? it turns out that white could have achieved +3 in the game if he had not blundered and actually made the move he played for.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    IF YOU ARE PIECE UP ALL THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS CONSOLIDATE AND START EXCHANGING PIECES!
    Again, how?

    Having had the benefit of hindsight, no clock and an engine - and therefore no ghosts!, here are my comments, including the answer to my question(s).

    1. After black's blunder of a piece (for the compensation of a pawn and shattering whites central pawns), white is +1.5 directly after the all-but-forcing continuation at 14... Qc7

    2. In the game, white was concerned losing the c pawn on move 15 and therefore allowed 15... Bxh2. White drops to +1 after this.

    3. The rook a5 manoeuvre was just as much about creating an a1-h8 battery with a queen on a1 as it was about
    -- creating a threat against the black queen (Rc5)
    -- seeking to exchange rooks on c8! (note for Michael Baron)
    -- releasing the Ra1 from the eye of a bouncing black bishop

    4. As it turned out in the game, the played for and achieved battery was ignored/ forgotten/ blood-rushed by white who had the chance to play 22.Bxg7 leaving white +3 with best play from both sides.

    So the answer to question to is the move that loses 2.3 points is 22.Ng5

    At this point, white has achieved a won game without trading the pieces as offererd by Michael Baron. Michael, I agree with your textbook suggestion that trading is the way to go is such a position (if possible).

    Thanks JK, WE and MF for participating in a meaningful way.
    Last edited by Basil; 15-10-2008 at 11:55 AM.
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  13. #13
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    The first line i would consider (not sure if its good or not but definitely first one to consider is 15.Nf3 followed by 16.Bxf6

    lets look at simple moves first! Piece for two pawns is enough for clear victory
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Again, how?
    This is perhaps one of the rudest posts I've ever read. That aside, I think "planning" is the word your searching for. Every single move after 13. axb4 dxe3 should focus on not giving your opponent counterplay.

    May I suggest reading When You're Winning, It's a Whole Different Game by Dan Heisman.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    The first line i would consider (not sure if its good or not but definitely first one to consider is 15.Nf3 followed by 16.Bxf6

    lets look at simple moves first! Piece for two pawns is enough for clear victory
    With the plan of consolidating and simplification, we can now look how to achieve it.

    I quite like 14.Nf3 or 14.Bxf6. Why is White going pawn grabbing while Black's is getting ready for a counter-attack?

    After 15.Nf3 Ng4 looks a bit like Black is achieving complications - why let him? 15.h3 makes sense to me - taking the g4 square from the knight and removing the attack on h2. Black can capture on c2 if he likes but has to accept the major swap-off into an easily won endgame. 15.h3 Qxc2 16.Rc1 Qxd1 17.Rxc8+ Kd7 18.Rxd1 Rxc8 19.Rc1 but watch out for 16.Nc4? Rxc4 17.bxc4 Qxb2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    3. The rook a5 manoeuvre was just as much about creating an a1-h8 battery with a queen on a1 as it was about
    -- creating a threat against the black queen (Rc5)
    -- seeking to exchange rooks on c8! (note for Michael Baron)
    -- releasing the Ra1 from the eye of a bouncing black bishop
    The first and second reasons here are the same - of course the queen will move. The third reason is weak since White dominates the a1-h8 diagonal. Increasing control over the critical e5 square is a good reason - intending to swap pieces via Be5. Also possible is 19.Qc1 followed by 20.Qb2 instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    At this point, white has achieved a won game without trading the pieces as offererd by Michael Baron. Michael, I agree with your textbook suggestion that trading is the way to go is such a position (if possible).
    White, of course, already had a won game. Also, how did you intend to win it without swapping any pieces?

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