View Poll Results: Who will win? (This poll asks who will win, not who do you want to win)

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Clinton (350+ EC votes)

    2 18.18%
  • Clinton (300-349 EC votes)

    5 45.45%
  • Clinton (270-299 EC votes)

    2 18.18%
  • Trump (270-299 EC votes)

    0 0%
  • Trump (300-349 EC votes) - CORRECT

    1 9.09%
  • Trump (350+ EC votes)

    1 9.09%
  • No electoral college majority

    0 0%
  • Someone else

    0 0%
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  1. #5356
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    I said "may be". I can't see too much evidence of loss of the presumption of innocence especially amongst republicans.
    RINOs certainly don't like Moore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Still one thing we do know is that even if you brag about being a sexual predator, Evangelicals will still vote for you.
    In the primaries, quite a low proportion of evangelical churchgoers. In the general, given the two-party system, voting for Trump was the only way to keep the corrupt christophobic Hillary out.

    And notice that the Leftmedia released that decade-old tape only after Trump had won the primaries, after doing everything they could to help him win.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 12-11-2017 at 03:15 AM.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  2. #5357
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Would that be the same Bill Clinton who was impeached by the Republicans,
    But still adored by Dems and too many RINOs. And his wife won the corrupt Democrat primaries, although she attacked women who had credibly accused Bill of rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    and the same Harvey Weinstein who was sacked from his company?
    After how many decades of abusing women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Should Moore be treated the same way?
    If he is proven guilty, then definitely.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  3. #5358
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Roy Moore & character qualifications

    We have all heard the serious accusations against Judge Roy Moore. If true, they are serious indeed because it suggests criminal and immoral acts when he was a young lawyer.

    But we don’t know if these are true or not.

    The stories sound plausible and have a facial consistency. But there are reasons to doubt. Here are some of those reasons.

    1. This was almost 40 years ago. If true, this would normally have been expected to arise in one of his many prior runs for public office.

    2. This was revealed by the Washington Post which has clearly been campaigning against Moore for a long time. This is partisan advocacy not impartial journalism. This alone doesn’t mean it’s not true but it is a reason to doubt.

    3. It was only revealed AFTER it was too late to get another name on the ballot. Thus, the Democrat candidate is the likely beneficiary. This is something that a partisan operation would do, not fair minded journalists.

    These things being said, I do not want to fail to say that character does matter. Republicans used to be solidly in support of that principle.

    The GOP voted to elect a president only by repudiating the importance of character. This is a complicated mess and there are no easy answers because of all the uncertainty re the truth of these events.

    But there should be no uncertainty about the centrality of character. Some defending Moore have tried to excuse this behavior even if true.

    I know Judge Moore and I don’t believe for a minute that he would act like this today. But I truly don’t know what he was like 40 years ago.

    I hope it is not true. I also hope that our party comes to its senses because I see unsettling trends that suggest that some in our party would say that it wouldn’t matter even if we had a video of the events. It would matter because character matters.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  4. #5359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    If he is proven guilty, then definitely.
    But neither Clinton nor Weinstein were proven guilty before they were punished! You're ignoring my whole point, and applying a double standard.

    Anyway, Moore has admitted that he is a pedophile:
    After immediately calling the charges a hit job carried out by Democrats and the “fake news,” Moore now seems to be in the “I do not recall” phase of the scandal. In an interview with Sean Hannity, he said he “does not generally” engage in sexual activity with teenagers. As Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu tweeted on Friday, the rough translation of that answer from Moore is: “I do not generally engage in pedophilia. Just sometimes.”
    Is it now time to drop him as a candidate?

  5. #5360
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    Good to see that Ted Cruz has withdrawn his support for Moore - he's obviously not waiting for 'proof':
    Other Republicans have distanced themselves as well. Senator Ted Cruz withdrew his endorsement of Moore on Monday. “I can’t urge the people of Alabama to support a campaign in the face of these charges without serious persuasive demonstration that the charges are not true,” said the Texas Republican. Among those senators who initially backed Moore, only Rand Paul has yet to withdraw his endorsement.

  6. #5361
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Roy Moore & character qualifications
    She was a 14-year-old, dude.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #5362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    She was a 14-year-old, dude.
    Doesn't prove that she is telling the truth 39 years later.

    The leftists, and unfortunately too many Republican squishes, confuse the seriousness of an allegation with its truth.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 15-11-2017 at 07:56 AM.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  8. #5363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Good to see that Ted Cruz has withdrawn his support for Moore - he's obviously not waiting for 'proof'
    That's bad on him. He should know better than to let a campaign be derailed by unproven allegations that have surfaced only now, 39 years after the supposed fact, when Moore is poised to take a senate seat after defeating the darling of the GOP Establishment. It also

    It is contrary to the principles of justice of believing allegations without proof. I'm sick of the Gutless Old Party turning on their own every time one of the Leftmedia or Democratic party say ‘boo’. It also signals to the unscrupulous win-at-any-cost Dems that they now have a sure-fire way to take down any conservative candidate: make up accusations of sexual abuse—no matter from how long ago and no matter how unproven. Of course, the Dems don't care too much about sexual abuse from their own: look at Bill and Hillary, still Dem rock stars, so much that the DNC was rigged to allow Hillary to win the primary.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  9. #5364
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Attacking Judge Moore's Morality Is a Dirty Leftist Trick
    By Lloyd Marcus, American Thinker, 14 Nov 2017

    Black Christian Conservative Republican Lloyd Marcus here. …

    Therefore, it is not surprising that Leftists and RINOs are clamoring for Moore to drop out of the race; claiming Moore is morally unfit to serve. These same people told us president Bill Clinton having an intern perform oral sex on him in the White House was none of our business. To defend Clinton, Leftists threw all men under the bus by claiming any man in a powerful position would say yes to sex with a starry-eyed young woman. Their narrative was particularly offensive to me because my dad and brother were men in powerful positions. Dad was the pastor of a large congregation and my brother was commissioner of a kid’s football league. Neither of them would mimic President Clinton's adulterous philandering, sexual harassment, and sexual assaults.

    Leftists sold America their lie that president Clinton's serial adultery was no big deal. Sexual immorality was the acceptable new normal for men in power (if they were democrats). Now, these same people who circled the wagons to protect Clinton are pounding on Moore's political door with axes and pitchforks, demanding that he get out of the race over unfounded 40-year-old allegations.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  10. #5365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    That's bad on him. He should know better than to let a campaign be derailed by unproven allegations that have surfaced only now, 39 years after the supposed fact, when Moore is poised to take a senate seat after defeating the darling of the GOP Establishment. ...
    So you don't believe Moore when he admitted to relationships with under-age girls? Or you don't think it matters?

  11. #5366
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Doesn't prove that she is telling the truth 39 years later.

    The leftists, and unfortunately too many Republican squishes, confuse the seriousness of an allegation with its truth.
    There are a number of people saying the same thing and I would think it is enough to discourage too strong a defense. Apparently the facts of the story check out (ages, date of the custody hearing where Moore first met the girl, etc) Also there are people providing testimony that they girl did tell them about the relationship at the time. On top of that there are people saying it was well known at the time that Moore dated teenagers.

    My question is twofold. Lets assume P is your estimate of the probability that Moore is a historic child molester. What value do place on P to be and how high would your value of P have to get to before you stop vigorously defending his character?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  12. #5367
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Attacking Judge Moore's Morality Is a Dirty Leftist Trick
    By Lloyd Marcus, American Thinker, 14 Nov 2017
    Whataboutism doesn't excuse Moore.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  13. #5368
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    Bill Clinton: A Reckoning
    Feminists saved the 42nd president of the United States in the 1990s. They were on the wrong side of history; is it finally time to make things right?
    CAITLIN FLANAGAN, The Atlantic, 13 NOV 2017

    It was a pattern of behavior; it included an alleged violent assault; the women involved had far more credible evidence than many of the most notorious accusations that have come to light in the past five weeks. But Clinton was not left to the swift and pitiless justice that today’s accused men have experienced. Rather, he was rescued by a surprising force: machine feminism. The movement had by then ossified into a partisan operation, and it was willing—eager—to let this friend of the sisterhood enjoy a little droit de seigneur.

    The notorious 1998 New York Times op-ed by Gloria Steinem must surely stand as one of the most regretted public actions of her life. It slut-shamed, victim-blamed, and age-shamed; it urged compassion for and gratitude to the man the women accused. Moreover (never write an op-ed in a hurry; you’ll accidentally say what you really believe), it characterized contemporary feminism as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party.
    1. In the USA, state after state votes to keep marriage as it's always been.
    The Left: judges should overrule the people.

    2. In Australia, the people vote to allow gay marriage.
    The Left: the minority should shut up and let the majority have its way.

  14. #5369
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Bill Clinton: A Reckoning
    Feminists saved the 42nd president of the United States in the 1990s. They were on the wrong side of history; is it finally time to make things right?
    Whataboutism doesn't excuse Moore.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #5370
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Roy Moore Is Lying

    Anyone who claims that Moore is innocent is up against a mountain of evidence....

    Five girls, two mothers, witnesses, court records, contemporaneous reports, and a note in Moore’s handwriting. All the evidence says Moore is lying. For those who have long believed in him, it’s hard to accept he could have done what these women allege. But it’s harder to explain the alternative: that all the witnesses are liars and forgers.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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