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  1. #1
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Splitting of "current scientific research" thread

    Trust Jono to sprout his pseudoscientific claptrap in a perfectly good thread on real science stories that filter into the popular media.

    Thread split.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    This thread split with the titles shows corrupt moderator bias—an ideological opponent should not be misusing his moderator power to mistitle posts of opponents. There was nothing pseudoscientific about an experiment that showed that bacteria could not survive on a meteorite as panspermia requires.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    This thread split with the titles shows corrupt moderator bias
    agreed.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #4
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    agreed.
    Not at all. Had i deleted it it would have showed bias.

    Jono's post had nothing to do with science filtering through to popular media and made no reference to the previous posts on the thread. It was all about pushing his creationism barrow. As such it was allowed to stand but in a thread of its own.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    My quote was sloppy. I was not agreeing as to whether the split was appropriate as I had not followed the originating thread. The split may or may not have been appropriate.

    I intended to demonstrate agreement with the claim of bias in the manner of the splitting and renaming.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  6. #6
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    I intended to demonstrate agreement with the claim of bias in the manner of the splitting and renaming.
    The manner of the splitting is a funny charge. There are several manner by which a thread may be split, but they all have the same outcome: two threads.

    Regarding the rename, I strove for accuracy. Young Earth Creationism is regarded as a pseudoscience by practically every academy of science in the world. However, As Jono has the first post of this thread I believe it is well within his power to change the thread title himself within 24 hours of the original posting date. Should that not be the case he could also approach one of the moderators who I am sure would assist.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I've commented on the "origins" thread.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Not at all. Had i deleted it it would have showed bias.

    Jono's post had nothing to do with science filtering through to popular media and made no reference to the previous posts on the thread. It was all about pushing his creationism barrow. As such it was allowed to stand but in a thread of its own.
    Even for Rincy this is low. It's not up to a moderator to make this declaration acting as a moderator. Rincy should recuse himself from moderating threads he is involved him, and misusing this power to smear an opponent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    However, As Jono has the first post of this thread I believe it is well within his power to change the thread title himself within 24 hours of the original posting date. Should that not be the case he could also approach one of the moderators who I am sure would assist.
    Crap. I formally protest against this abuse of power. Rincy named it, let him change it properly. Why should I have to figure out how to change a thread title when I didn't start it, if it is indeed possible.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 28-09-2008 at 01:29 AM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  9. #9
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    As stated Jono's posted linked to a pseudoscientific YEC article and as such the title of this thread is perfectly legitimate. However, if he is unhappy with the title he is perfectly able to change the title himself as he is the author of the first post of the thread.

    Regarding discussing the scientific merit of his article, that is not the purpose of the thread I started and would not like the thread polluted with with Jono's barrow pushing, at least not until we have been able to gauge if there is any interest in the primary topic of the thread which is about real science filtering out the the popular media.

    Both the stories I linked to were widely reported in the popular media (both were reported on the ABC news site for example) and I provided no analysis of the scientific content and just some lighthearted remarks and links to popular writeups and the scientific papers upon which they are based.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Not at all. Had i deleted it it would have showed bias.

    Jono's post had nothing to do with science filtering through to popular media and made no reference to the previous posts on the thread. It was all about pushing his creationism barrow. As such it was allowed to stand but in a thread of its own.
    If you want to avoid showing bias (which you claim doesn't exist) ... the solution Jono proposes is right ... let Jono label the thread as he prefers, seeing as its his post which starts it..

    If you don't, then you are putting words in Jono's mouth (pseudoscientific) which he clearly doesn't want associated with him.
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    I agree with Spiny, this principle should also apply to posters like Ax, regadless of whether the title and or content might scare small children.

    Cheers
    Garrett.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    The manner of the splitting is a funny charge. There are several manner by which a thread may be split, but they all have the same outcome: two threads.
    'Manner' is a broad term in my context and certainly not limited to the mechanics and the resultant outcome (something I suspect you understood prior to posting). There are issues such as 'tone'.

    As for the thread split justification, do you feel the standard of 'off topic' that you applied to Jono is a similar standard to which you hold yourself when posting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind
    Regarding the rename, I strove for accuracy.
    But neither balance, nor fairness.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    I want this thread renamed, "Current scientific research". This is what the germs-on-meteorite" simulation is. What people make of this research is their own business, and shouldn't be determined by Rincy's improper use of mod powers.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  14. #14
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman
    If you want to avoid showing bias (which you claim doesn't exist) ... the solution Jono proposes is right ... let Jono label the thread as he prefers, seeing as its his post which starts it..
    He is and always has been able to relabel the thread since (as you point out) his is the author of the first post. At present he seems to have not wanted to do so for reasons best known to Jono.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman
    If you don't, then you are putting words in Jono's mouth (pseudoscientific) which he clearly doesn't want associated with him.
    It was clear the words was mine since I split the thread but the word is definitely accurate and I am not the only person in the world to call young earth creationism pseudoscientific.

    Practically very academy of science in the world agrees.

    See IAP Statement on the teaching of evolution and the National Academy of Sciences (of America) released a statement in 1984 which said among other things...

    The teaching of creationism as advocated by the leading proponents of "creation science" includes the following judgments: (1) the earth and universe are relatively young, perhaps only 6,000 to 10,000 years old; (2) the present form of the earth can be explained by "catastrophism," including a worldwide flood; and (3) all living things (including humans) were created miraculously, essentially in the forms we now find them. These teachings may be recognized as having been derived from the accounts of origins in the first two chapters of Genesis.

    Generations of able and often devout scientists before us have sought evidence for these teachings without success. Others have given us hypotheses about the origin and history of the earth and the universe itself. These hypotheses have been tested and validated by many different lines of inquiry. With modifications to include new findings, they have become the central organizing theories that make the universe as a whole intelligible, lend coherence to all of science, and provide fruitful direction to modern research. The hypothesis of special creation has, over nearly two centuries, been repeatedly and sympathetically considered and rejected on evidential grounds by qualified observers and experimentalists. In the forms given in the first two chapters of Genesis, it is now an invalidated hypothesis. To reintroduce it into the public schools at this time as an element of science teaching would be akin to requiring the teaching of Ptolemaic astronomy or pre-Columbian geography.

    Confronted by this challenge to the integrity and effectiveness of our national educational system and to the hardwon evidencebased foundations of science, the National Academy of Sciences cannot remain silent. To do so would be a dereliction of our responsibility to academic and intellectual freedom and to the fundamental principles of scientific thought. As a historic representative of the scientific profession and designated advisor to the Federal Government in matters of science, the Academy states unequivocally that the tenets of "creation science" are not supported by scientific evidence, that creationism has no place in a science curriculum at any level, that its proposed teaching would be impossible in any constructive sense for wellinformed and conscientious science teachers, and that its teaching would be contrary to the nation's need for a scientifically literate citizenry and for a large, well-informed pool of scientific and technical personnel.


    - Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences

    So you could hardly claim that I am being inaccurate. Scientists the world over agree YEC is a pseudoscience which denies at least two major fields of of scientific knowledge in deference to religious dogma.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #15
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett
    I agree with Spiny, this principle should also apply to posters like Ax, regadless of whether the title and or content might scare small children.
    Jono has always been able to link inumerous times to his religious website on threads related to the debate between science and religion. However it was off topic in the thread he posted in and hence the post was moved (not removed).

    Regarding the title Jono has always been able to change that himself and if he cannot work out how then there are people who can assist with that task.

    So where's the beef?
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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