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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Current scientific research

    Meteorite experiment deals blow to 'bugs from space' theory

    Many chemical evolutionists have been driven to panspermia in desperation, because even given evolutionary dating, there is not enough time for chemical evolution to have occurred. But panspermia has been dealt a blow, since it's more likely that even the hardiest germs would have been fried on entry into the earth's atmosphere:

    A novel experiment has dealt a setback to a theory that life on Earth was kickstarted by bacteria that hitched a ride on space rocks.

    The "pan-spermia" hypothesis is that cells were transported to the infant Earth on rocks that were bumped off other planets or even came from another star system

    ...

    Seeking to find out more, European scientists have devised "artificial meteorites" to see what happens when rocks bearing fossil traces and living bacteria are exposed to the fiery heat of entering Earth's atmosophere.

    In research to be unveiled on Thursday, they attached small rocks two centimetres (0.8 of an inch) thick to a Russian unmanned Foton M3 capsule that was launched in September 2007 and returned to Earth 12 days later.

    The samples were imbedded on the capsule's heat shield, which reached a peak velocity of 7.6 kilometres (4.75 miles) per second (17,000 miles, or 27,200 kms, per hour) during the controlled descent.

    One sample comprised a 3.5-billion-year piece of sedimentary rock from Pilbara, Australia, that contained carbonaceous microfossils.

    The other was a piece of lake sedimentary rock from the Orkney Islands, Scotland, containing chemical traces of past organisms.

    The back of both rocks was smeared with a living bacterium called Chroococcidiopsis -- a hardy, primitive species that lives on the underside of stones in the desert, surviving on tiny droplets of moisture.

    Some scientists have considered it, or a relative of it, to be a good candidate for a Martian germ.

    Recovered and analysed after the return, the Pilbara sample was found to be covered with a creamy-white fusion crust about half a millimetre (0.02 of an inch) thick but, underneath, its microfossils were intact.

    The Orkney samples lost nearly a third of its mass, but otherwise survived, as did its biomolecules.

    But there was bad news for the Chroococcidiopsis. The bugs were burnt to a crisp, although their carbonised outline remained intact.
    "The STONE-6 experiment suggests that, if Martian sedimentary meteorites carry traces of past life, these traces could be safely transported to Earth," said investigator Frances Westall, of the Centre of Molecular Biophysics in Orleans, France.

    "However, the results are more problematic when applied to pan-spermia," she said a press release.

    "STONE-6 showed at least two centimetres (0.8 of an inch) of rock is not sufficient to protect the organisms during [atmospheric] entry."
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 28-09-2008 at 03:59 PM. Reason: To change the title that a biased moderator picked for a thread, letting his ideology affect his objectivity
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Important new step toward producing stem cells for human treatment

    This uses harmless adenoviruses to turn adult cells into pluripotent stem cells:

    “We get stem cell lines,” said Hochedlinger. “They are all pluripotent” – meaning that they can become any type of cell –“and they have no traces of the adenovirus.” Even more important, he said, thus far none of the mice carrying the new cells lines have shown any signs of developing tumors – and tumors were being frequently reported in mice carrying the cell lines created using retroviruses.

    “The next step is to reproduce this work using human cells, and there’s no reason why it can’t work,” Hochedlinger said, adding that “this basically provides us with a system with which to test the question of whether iPS cells are the equivalent of human embryonic stem cells. That’s a question that, in my opinion, hasn’t been answered yet.”

    Don't expect the Leftmedia or Democrats to take note: they are obsessed with embryonic stem cells that have yet to provide a cure, while adult stem cells have cured over 70 conditions. See further documentation at Stem cells and Genesis.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Some butterflies, such as the blue morpho (Morpho menelaus) of South America and the male mountain blue don (Papilio ulysses) of northern Australia are known for their brilliant iridescent blues. But their spectacular colours are not caused by pigments but by diffraction gratings, i.e. the scales are sub-micrometre photonic structures. The very deep black on the borders is likewise not due to a black pigment but due to photonic structures that trap light. See Beautiful black and blue butterflies for explanation.

    But recent research shows that Lamprolenis nitida has scales with two diffraction gratings superimposed, which give two main signals.

    Dual gratings interspersed on a single butterfly scaleJ. Royal Soc. 5(28):1387–1390, 6 November 2008
    DOI 10.1098/rsif.2008.0227

    Iridescent butterfly wing colours result from the interaction of light with sub-micrometre structures in the scales. Typically, one scale contains one such photonic structure that produces a single iridescent signal. Here, however, we show how the dorsal wings of male Lamprolenis nitida emit two independent signals from two separate photonic structures in the same scale. Multiple independent signals from separate photonic structures within the same sub-micrometre device are currently unknown in animals. However, they would serve to increase the complexity and specificity of the optical signature, enhancing the information conveyed. This could be important during intrasexual encounters, in which iridescent male wing colours are employed as threat displays. Blazed diffraction gratings, like those found in L. nitida, are asymmetric photonic structures and drive most of the incident light into one diffraction order. Similar gratings are used in spectrometers, limiting the spectral range over which the spectrometer functions. By incorporating two interchangeable gratings onto a single structure, as they are in L. nitida, the functional range of spectrometers could be extended.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

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    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    I occasionally wonder, Jono, why you bother citing things that can or cannot occur in a number of billion years to support your position, when your ultimate position is that the world is much younger than that anyway.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris
    I occasionally wonder, Jono, why you bother citing things that can or cannot occur in a number of billion years to support your position, when your ultimate position is that the world is much younger than that anyway.
    Boris, it is not unreasonable or even uncommon to grant an opponent's premise just for the purpose of the argument, and show that the opponent's position is untenable anyway. Then a fortiori, how much worse is the position if that premise is false?

    In this particular case, if these things can't even occur in billions of years that the evos accept, then goo-to-you evolution is dead. So how much more so if the earth is much younger than they need.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

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    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

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    Cos creationists are the people you really want to talk to about matters of theoretical physics

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Cos creationists are the people you really want to talk to about matters of theoretical physics
    If the creationist is a Ph.D. physicist like Dr Russell Humphreys, with plenty of secular publications, awards and patents, then for sure.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    If the creationist is a Ph.D. physicist like Dr Russell Humphreys, with plenty of secular publications, awards and patents, then for sure.
    I count three secular journal publications since he received his PhD 35 years ago. Overall it's a decent record, but you can find many more distinguished and qualified Physicists if belief in a 6000 year old universe is not a prerequisite.

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I count three secular journal publications since he received his PhD 35 years ago. Overall it's a decent record, but you can find many more distinguished and qualified Physicists if belief in a 6000 year old universe is not a prerequisite.
    What are you on about?

    • Recently measured helium diffusion rate for zircon suggests inconsistency with U-Pb age for Awards Fenton Hill granodiorite (lead author is Humphreys), Eos, Transactions of the American and Geophysical Union 84(46), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract V32C-1047 (December 2003). Poster at <http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/AGUHeliumPoster_Humphreys.pdf>.
    • The enigma of the ubiquity of 14C in organic samples older than 100 ka (lead author is J. R. Baumgardner), Eos, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union 84(46), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract V32C-1045 (December 2003). Poster at <http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/AGUC-14_Poster_Baumgardner.pdf>.
    • Comparison of experimental results and calculated detector responses for PBFA II thermal source experiments, Review of Scientific Instruments 63(10), October 1992.
    • Inertial confinement fusion with light ion beams, 13th Internat. Conf. on Plasma Physics and Controlled Nuclear Fusion Research, Washington, D.C. 1–6, October 1990.
    • Progress toward a superconducting opening switch, Proceedings of the Sixth IEEE Pulsed Power Conference, Arlington, Virginia, 1987, pp. 279–282.
    • Scaling relations for the Rimfire multi-stage gas switch, Proceedings of the Sixth IEEE Pulsed Power Conference, Arlington, VA, 29 June – 1 August 1987.
    • Rimfire: a six megavolt laser-triggered gas-filled switch for PBFA-II, Proceedings of the Fifth IEEE Pulsed Power Conference, Arlington, Virginia, 10–12 June 1985, pp. 262–269.
    • PBFA II, a 100 TW pulsed power driver for the inertial confinement fusion program, Proceedings of the Fifth IEEE Pulsed Power Conference, Arlington, Virginia, 10–12 June 1985.
    • Uranium logging with prompt fission neutrons, International Journal of Applied Radiation and Isotopes, 34:261–268, 1983.
    • Scientific creationism, Physics Today 35:84–86, June 1982.
    • Uranium logging with prompt fission neutrons, IEEE Transactions on Nuclear Science, NS–28 (1981) 1691–1695.
    • Wide-range multi-channel analog switch, Nuclear Instruments and Methods 121 :505–508, 1974.
    • The 1/γ velocity dependence of nucleon-nucleus optical potentials, Nuclear Physics A182 (1972) 580.

    Can you find any actual errors in the articles, or was this just an excuse to show your misotheistic bigotry?
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 30-09-2008 at 04:44 PM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    I see you haven't gone the cautious route and waited for the proceedings of, or journal article to be published.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono's Article
    However, this didn’t stop the leading researcher asserting that 2 cm of rock was insufficient, both in a press release and in their abstract.
    They didn't assert that 2cm of rock was insufficient in the abstract.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Abstract
    However, living organisms may need more than 2cm of rock protection.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    I see you haven't gone the cautious route and waited for the proceedings of, or journal article to be published.They didn't assert that 2cm of rock was insufficient in the abstract.
    I was cautious enough to quote their caveats in the paper you cited, Westall, F. et al., STONE 6: Sedimentary meteors from Mars, European Planetary Science Congress Abstracts 3, EPSC2008-A-00407, 2008. I even cited the same part of the abstract you did. However, one would think that Frances Westall, the first author, knows what is likely even if a paper is more cautiously worded. As the spacecraft was ascending more slowly than a meteorite (deliberately so because of the blunt body theory of optimal re-entry), the germs had a better chance on it.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 11-10-2008 at 10:12 AM.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    I was cautious enough to quote their caveats in the paper you cited, Westall, F. et al., STONE 6: Sedimentary meteors from Mars, European Planetary Science Congress Abstracts 3, EPSC2008-A-00407, 2008. I even cited the same part of the abstract you did. However, one would think that Frances Westall, the first author, knows what is likely even if a paper is more cautiously worded. As the spacecraft was ascending more slowly than a meteorite (deliberately so because of the blunt body theory of optimal re-entry), the germs had a better chance on it.
    This might address the first half of my post, but it doesn't address the second half. Namely that the abstract did not make the claim you claim that it made.

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