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  1. #31
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    I'd like to take this back to the original quotation...

    "When I see the worsening degeneracy in our politicians, our media, our educators, and our intelligentsia, I can’t help wondering if the day may yet come when the only thing that can save this country is a military coup."
    Perhaps Sowell should have linked up with Timothy McVeigh, certainly they have similar ideas about how to "save" democracy.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoker
    Perhaps Sowell should have linked up with Timothy McVeigh, certainly they have similar ideas about how to "save" democracy.
    Moron. Sowell never advocated killing innocent civilians the way McVeigh does. But evidently the Joke doesn't think that any tyranny justifies revolt.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  3. #33
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Moron. Sowell never advocated killing innocent civilians the way McVeigh does. But evidently the Joker doesn't think that any tyranny justifies revolt.
    A militant revolt should be an extreme last resort. To suggest a military coup in the USA might be necesarry in the foreseeable future is the truly moronic (and dangerous) statement.

    While Sowell might not support McVeigh's actions it is comments like his that both incite and provide personal justification for the actions of such terrorists.

    I am sure that if an Imam in Australia stood up and said:

    "When I see the worsening degeneracy in our politicians, our media, our educators, and our intelligentsia, I can’t help wondering if the day may yet come when the only thing that can save this country is a military coup."

    Because he felt society was being indoctrinated with immoral values. And that military action might be remove this "tyranny" because there werre no longer any checks and balances.

    Where would you stand then?

    Because you share Sowell's ideology you've become blinded.
    Last edited by TheJoker; 03-12-2008 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Sowell via TheJoker
    "When I see the worsening degeneracy in our politicians, our media, our educators, and our intelligentsia, I can’t help wondering if the day may yet come when the only thing that can save this country is a military coup."
    Evidently the teaching of grammar in our public schools is so bad that the Joke can't tell that it's a subjunctive future, not present indicative.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  5. #35
    CC International Master TheJoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Evidently the teaching of grammar in our public schools is so bad that the Joke can't tell that it's a subjunctive future, not present indicative.
    It is a prediction of the future based on present indicators.That anybody could make such a prediction based on the current environment is disturbing in the least.
    Last edited by TheJoker; 05-12-2008 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoker
    It is a prediction of the future based on present indicators.That anybody could make such a prediction based on the current environment is disturbing in the least.
    Rather, evidently the Joke thinks that no amount of government tyranny could ever justify a military coup, given that his motto is "in big government we trust".
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Rather, evidently the Joke thinks that no amount of government tyranny could ever justify a military coup, given that his motto is "in big government we trust".
    The above looks like an enormous straw man to me. It is a facile task to knock it down and set it on fire.

    You see, Jono, TheJoker used some very important words: "...based on the current environment..."

    In no way does that even imply that "no amount of tyranny could ever justify a military coup" but rather it indicates that the current situation is not likely to give rise to one where a coup could be countenanced in the future, based on current evidence.

    On another note, why are you so angry all the time? You are constantly name calling ("TheJoke", "homonazi", "gaystapo") and attempting to coin awkward neologisms ("misotheist", "leftmedia") that have negative connotations. Happy people who are confident in their own debating skills seldom use these tactics; choosing to play the ball rather than the man.
    Last edited by Mephistopheles; 10-12-2008 at 09:09 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    The above looks like an enormous straw man to me. It is a facile task to knock it down and set it on fire.
    Joke's whole argument is a straw man about Dr Sowell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    You see, Jono, TheJoker used some very important words: "...based on the current environment..."
    You see, Meph, and Sowell used some very important words indicating a possible future, while the above implies that he thought that the military coup would be justifiable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    In no way does that even imply that "no amount of tyranny could ever justify a military coup" but rather it indicates that the current situation is not likely to give rise to one where a coup could be countenanced in the future, based on current evidence.
    Many tyrannies became that way gradually, including the Nazis. It's like the apocryphal frog being slowly boiled to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    On another note, why are you so angry all the time? You are constantly name calling ("TheJoke", "homonazi", "gaystapo") and attempting to coin awkward neologisms ("misotheist", "leftmedia") that have negative connotations.
    On another note, why are you trying to read my mind and emotional state? There is nothing wrong with accurate labelling, which make the point that radical homosexuals are doing far more than conservative Christians to try to intimidate those who disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    Happy people who are confident in their own debating skills seldom use these tactics; choosing to play the ball rather than the man.
    Those confident in their debating skills would try to deal with the arguments not cheap psychologizing of their opponents.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  9. #39
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    Storm in a teacup

    Sowell's views are quite clear from his writing.
    It is also quite clear that the single quotation some are chewing on is a hyperbole used by Sowell to demonstrate his disapproval.
    Trying to imply that it shows his totalitarian inclination is laughable.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Joke's whole argument is a straw man about Dr Sowell.
    That may be but if it is then you are straw manning his straw man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    You see, Meph, and Sowell used some very important words indicating a possible future, while the above implies that he thought that the military coup would be justifiable.
    And TheJoker (note lack of name calling) has simply disagreed with Sowell's prognosis. From this disagreement, you assert that "evidently the Joke thinks that no amount of government tyranny could ever justify a military coup". This is an obvious straw man, as TheJoker (note lack of name calling) has not made any such statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Many tyrannies became that way gradually, including the Nazis. It's like the apocryphal frog being slowly boiled to death.
    That is merely a restatement of Sowell's position. The position itself is being disputed, i.e. TheJoker (note lack of name calling) argues that conditions in the USA at present do not indicate any future deterioration into tyranny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    On another note, why are you trying to read my mind and emotional state?
    Because I am wondering about your insistence upon name calling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    There is nothing wrong with accurate labelling,
    Quite. There is something wrong with inaccurate labelling, though. I would argue that you are frequently guilty of the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    which make the point that radical homosexuals are doing far more than conservative Christians to try to intimidate those who disagree.
    http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...e-a-right.html

    I'd be learning that one pretty quickly if I were you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Those confident in their debating skills would try to deal with the arguments not cheap psychologizing of their opponents.
    Translation: "Mephistopheles has my number. Darn it!"

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    And TheJoker (note lack of name calling) has simply disagreed with Sowell's prognosis. From this disagreement, you assert that "evidently the Joke thinks that no amount of government tyranny could ever justify a military coup". This is an obvious straw man, as TheJoker (note lack of name calling) has not made any such statement.
    One must wonder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    That is merely a restatement of Sowell's position.
    Which as Igor noted was hyperbolic, and I noted was subjunctive and future anyway, and despairing of the lack of any opposition from the media and academica, even if taken as hyper-literalistically as you and the Joke do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    The position itself is being disputed, i.e. TheJoker (note lack of name calling) argues that conditions in the USA at present do not indicate any future deterioration into tyranny.
    The proposed free-speech–destroying "fairness doctrine" would kill the conservative talk radio, the only mass media opposition to the leftist agenda. The government is expanding to take over more and more industries. The Gay-stapo in effect want to abolish the preaching of Judeo-Christianity. Unelected and unaccountable judges and bureaucrats are becoming more and more despotic. It seems like that Washington et al. revolted against King George III over less. Of course, no one, including Sowell in his many writings, has any illusions of the dangers that a military coup present.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    Because I am wondering about your insistence upon name calling.
    Stop whinging. It's fairly mild compared to the mainstream Left with their Bush=Hitler crap for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    Quite. There is something wrong with inaccurate labelling, though. I would argue that you are frequently guilty of the latter.
    Pure assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...e-a-right.html

    I'd be learning that one pretty quickly if I were you.
    You'd better learn first, since my argument was not that two wrongs make a right, but that the Left whinges about virtually non-existent Christian intolerance and ignores the intimidation and bullying of the Gay-stapo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles
    Translation: "Mephistopheles has my number. Darn it!"
    Dream away.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  12. #42
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Many tyrannies became that way gradually, including the Nazis. It's like the apocryphal frog being slowly boiled to death.
    I'm surprised you would touch that dodgy metaphor in any way given that Al Gore has his grubby fingers all over it (and with no indication in his case that the science of it is about as flimsy as his environmental scare campaigning).

    It surprises me that no-one has yet repeated the 1880s experiment that claimed to show frog death from boiling if the heating was extremely slow. (There were failed attempts to repeat it with faster heating.) Maybe experimenters cannot get ethical clearance or maybe nobody thinks it's worth killing a frog over. I'm sure there are cane toads nobody would miss all that much.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I'm surprised you would touch that dodgy metaphor in any way given that Al Gore has his grubby fingers all over it
    Could be a case of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    (and with no indication in his case that the science of it is about as flimsy as his environmental scare campaigning).
    Yet a Pommy court found almost a dozen serious errors in his film. Gore definitely grossly exaggerated the rise of sea levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    It surprises me that no-one has yet repeated the 1880s experiment that claimed to show frog death from boiling if the heating was extremely slow. (There were failed attempts to repeat it with faster heating.) Maybe experimenters cannot get ethical clearance or maybe nobody thinks it's worth killing a frog over. I'm sure there are cane toads nobody would miss all that much.
    I've heard that it's a myth, which is why I said "apocryphal". Bull in a china shop is another, as shown on Mythbusters.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    It surprises me that no-one has yet repeated the 1880s experiment that claimed to show frog death from boiling if the heating was extremely slow. (There were failed attempts to repeat it with faster heating.) Maybe experimenters cannot get ethical clearance or maybe nobody thinks it's worth killing a frog over. I'm sure there are cane toads nobody would miss all that much.
    One of those cases when it does not really matter whether it's true or false.
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  15. #45
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    Sowell's latest "Random Thoughts"

    The fact that sales at Starbucks are going down, while sales at McDonald's are going up, shows that people are adjusting to economic adversity by cutting back their spending. Only in Congress do people adjust to economic adversity and growing deficits by spending more money. [He evidently doesn't know about Chairman "Spend, spend, spend" KRudd]

    Wal-Mart has done more for poor people than any ten liberals, at least nine of whom are almost guaranteed to hate Wal-Mart.

    Ronald Reagan had a vision of America. Barack Obama has a vision of Barack Obama.

    One of the signs of how easily we are bullied by small and vocal groups is how many universities, among other institutions, dare not even refer to the Christmas vacation but instead refer to "the winter holiday."

    As American incomes have risen over the years, liberals have kept changing the definition of "poverty." Otherwise, the dwindling numbers of people who could be called "poor" would take away the liberals' main claim to influence and power.

    If you didn't know that Governor Rod Blagojevich was a Democrat, you are unlikely to find out from the mainstream media. But, if you didn't know that recently convicted Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska was a Republican, the media made sure to tell you.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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