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  1. #136
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    As powerful as computers are they still have weaknesses. They don't have much idea about opening theory and there are many positions where you can leave them running statically for days and they still won't see ideas buried 15-20 moves deep. Also they often don't understand that certain endgames are not winnable (eg the opponent has a fortress, the opponent can simplify to tablebase draws etc).

    A strong enough human should be able to work with the computer to perform better than the computer working alone. Whether I'm doing that or just sabotaging my playing partner's efforts, I couldn't say.

  2. #137
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Am I missing something or isn't this tournament about setting one's powerful engine to 'extra powerful' and 'extra deep' and seeing what comes out the other end?

    And then, if one has the most powerfullest!! engine, holy shock Batman, the most powerfullest engine wins.

    I reckon I could prove a point by using Rybka and making Garvo use Fritz. No offence Garvo - I just don't get it.
    When I played the freestyle tourney (that I played in, i.e. not this one) my main consultant, to the best of my knowledge, was neither the strongest engine nor the fastest computer in the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I had a look for KRPPKRP tablebases but they don't seem to exist just yet, unless I missed something. (What I found were comments suggesting you would need a very biiiiiiig computer to hold one).
    The unfortunate thing is you need all the 7-men promotion tables (KRPPKRB, KRPPKRN...) to get what you want. It'd be nice for this kind of position to have a shortcut way of doing things.
    Last edited by Aaron Guthrie; 15-02-2009 at 06:10 PM.

  3. #138
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    Congratulations!!! (:

  4. #139
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE
    When I played the freestyle tourney (that I played in, i.e. not this one) my main consultant, to the best of my knowledge, was neither the strongest engine nor the fastest computer in the field.

    The unfortunate thing is you need all the 7-men promotion tables (KRPPKRB, KRPPKRN...) to get what you want. It'd be nice for this kind of position to have a shortcut way of doing things.
    Given KB's and THE's comments, is it fair to say that Garvin does have some genuine talent in this area?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  5. #140
    Banned Hydra
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    Which begs the question , how will chess combat the implanted Fritz brain chip ?
    Compulsory scanners ?

  6. #141
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Given KB's and THE's comments, is it fair to say that Garvin does have some genuine talent in this area?
    Skill at least, I would suggest. Better computer, better program and the time you might (or might not) spend on it count for something but not for a gap of two and a half points out of ten over other players who are stronger OTB and making a serious effort.

    Many CC GMs (in those forms of CC that allow computer use) have stated that while a computer on its own can be reasonably strong at CC, a CC GM plus computer will thrash the computer on its own more times than not.

    I suspect something like this applies even if the operator is just a reasonable player going about things in an intelligent fashion.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 16-02-2009 at 01:11 AM.

  7. #142
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Skill at least, I would suggest. Better computer, better program and the time you might (or might not) spend on it count for something but not for a gap of two and a half points out of ten over other players who are stronger OTB and making a serious effort.

    Many CC GMs (in those forms of CC that allow computer use) have stated that while a computer on its own can be reasonably strong at CC, a CC GM plus computer will thrash the computer on its own more times than not.

    I suspect something like this applies even if the operator is just a reasonable player going about things in an intelligent fashion.
    Right then. Well played Garvo. A deserved tournament win.

    And thanks to Kev and Aaron who cleared up the issue.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #143
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Looking at Garvo's results in other freestyle tournaments and matches shows that it was no fluke.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  9. #144
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Looking at Garvo's results in other freestyle tournaments and matches shows that it was no fluke.
    I for one never thought it was a fluke. I always believed the unfair advantage was proven as existed each time. From the subsequent discussions, I now consider my disabused of that claim and believe that GG has a talent in this area.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  10. #145
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Had an interesting chat with Garvin chez club tonight regarding the talent involved or otherwise. Certainly an eye opener for me.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

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