View Poll Results: Who will win and by how much?

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  • Anand by four or more games

    0 0%
  • Anand by three games

    0 0%
  • Anand by two games

    3 13.64%
  • Anand by one game

    5 22.73%
  • Anand in tiebreak

    2 9.09%
  • Kramnik in tiebreak

    1 4.55%
  • Kramnik by one game

    6 27.27%
  • Kramnik by two games

    3 13.64%
  • Kramnik by three games

    1 4.55%
  • Kramnik by four or more games

    1 4.55%
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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    2008 World Championship Match: Anand v Kramnik Oct 14-Nov 2

    The match might be dead in the water before it even begins.

    Men’s World Championship

    Negotiations are ongoing between Anand and Kramnik for the World Championship match next year. Deputy President of FIDE, Makropoulos briefed the board about the status of negotiations. He said that Anand had put forward number of demands before he would sign a contract to play the match. Makropoulos said that he felt all of Anand’s demands could be accommodated except one. Anand wants to restore the right of the champion to claim victory if the match ends in a tie. Makropoulos said FIDE should oppose this and the Executive Board agreed. However the delegate from India then spoke and said that there was another sticking point not mentioned by Deputy President: Anand is insisting that the match be played at a “neutral venue.” The Executive Board did not discuss this issue because of the sensitivity of ongoing negotiations.

    And it is clear why. This is a trickier issue than it seems. Prior to the World Championship tournament in Mexico City, FIDE had signed a contract with a German company, Universal Events Productions (UEP), to sponsor the 2008 World Championship Match. It was agreed that this match would be played in Germany. It appears that Anand does not regard Germany as a “neutral venue” because Kramnik’s manager, Karsten Henzel, is a German citizen and has close relations with UEP. Also there are rumors that UEP gave Kramnik “extra inducements” to play the match in Germany. This issue is a potential showstopper.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Men’s World Championship
    When did this begin? I've never heard of such a thing before. So who is fighting for the World Championship, the title that began with Steinitz?
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    When did this begin? I've never heard of such a thing before. So who is fighting for the World Championship, the title that began with Steinitz?
    It is the same championship. I thought you would be aware of the history. My understanding is that it was the Mens championship for a long time, until Susan Polgar qualified.
    Last edited by Garvinator; 20-11-2007 at 05:41 PM.

  4. #4
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    I think you will find that the FIDE website does not refer to it as the Men's World Championship.

    The wording quoted by Garvin appears on Susan Polgar's site in a report by FIDE Vice President Bill Kelleher.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
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  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    I think you will find that the FIDE website does not refer to it as the Men's World Championship.

    The wording quoted by Garvin appears on Susan Polgar's site in a report by FIDE Vice President Bill Kelleher.
    And I am a student of chess history, and Steinitz, Lasker, ... Kasparov, Kramnik never claimed to be 'Men's World Champion' but 'World Champion'. This would be the title that Judit Polgár would want to fight for.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    And I am a student of chess history, and Steinitz, Lasker, ... Kasparov, Kramnik never claimed to be 'Men's World Champion' but 'World Champion'. This would be the title that Judit Polgár would want to fight for.
    So what, that has nothing to do with my post.

    The fact that some guy who just happens to be a FIDE VP calls it the Men's World Championship is irrelevant.

    What is relevant is that the FIDE website does not refer to it as the Men's World Championship. There they refer to it simply as the World Championship.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    So what, that has nothing to do with my post.
    OK, shouldn't have quoted it. I had/have no disagreement with what you said.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  8. #8
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    OK, shouldn't have quoted it. I had/have no disagreement with what you said.
    Glad we sorted that out.

    I agree with what you said as a stand alone comment.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    FIDE will look extremely silly if they do not give in to Anand's demand regarding drawing rights, given that Anand is now the pretty-much-undisputed world champion and that that clause was traditional for so long among previous world champions (even though most of those matches were much longer.)

    Maybe FIDE should cave in on that one and then Anand can look silly should he forfeit his title over where the match is played.

    If FIDE were to end up stripping Anand of his title over this then I would go back to regarding FIDE as unfit to award the title and would therefore regard Anand as the World Champion, as I did with Kasparov and Kramnik throughout their reigns.

    Shame that proposal for everything to do with the World Championship being outsourced hasn't got anywhere lately. FIDE are not to be trusted with it.

  10. #10
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    FIDE will look extremely silly if they do not give in to Anand's demand regarding drawing rights, given that Anand is now the pretty-much-undisputed world champion and that that clause was traditional for so long among previous world champions (even though most of those matches were much longer.)
    There were no draw odds in the Kramnik-Topalov match.

    Also there are no draw odds in favour of the champion in the World Championship going forward into 2008 and beyond.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    There were no draw odds in the Kramnik-Topalov match.
    That was because Topalov was able to claim himself to be a world champion of a sort, albeit a FIDE sort. The reunification was an unprecedented situation; the situation now is more like what used to happen when a single clear champion would face challengers.

    Also there are no draw odds in favour of the champion in the World Championship going forward into 2008 and beyond.
    Was this explicit in the documentation of the future matches before Anand won the 2007 event?

    (If so, Anand's the silly one and my post above is nonsense.)

  12. #12
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Was this explicit in the documentation of the future matches before Anand won the 2007 event?
    As far as I know, yes it was.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    As far as I know, yes it was.
    I wondered about it at the time and assumed there would not be draw odds, but don't remember seeing anything explicit. Would be interesting to know for sure, or if there were any regs drawn up in advance stipulating tiebreaks etc.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    It sounds like regulations are still up in the air. Of course the smart thing to do would have been to set out the regulations for the Kramnik v Mexico winner before Mexico started to stop all of this sort of stuff and then just say to all those that bid for the match that they will be played under these conditions.

    I am aware that there was a possibility of a Topalov v Kramnik match and these conditions could have been worked out separately, or in fact using the same conditions as what is now Anand v Kramnik.

    Of course it is fide after all

  15. #15
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Agreement between the parties has been reached and the match will take place October 11 - October 30 2008 in Bonn Germany.

    If there is a tie at the end of the 12 game match there will be a tie-break.

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4334
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

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