Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 35 of 35
  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,032
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Two is enough.
    I tend to agree. But what about a move that allows an obvious checkmate: 1. f4 e5 2. g4???

  2. #32
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,864
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    !?? - an interesting idea that is objectively bad
    Ah that makes sense. But by that token !??? could be an interesting blunder. Or !?!! could be an interesting brilliancy. Or !??! could be interesting but dubious (etc).

    I know !? and ?! aren't really opposites but I generally think that something should be at least possibly good to get a ! at the front and at least possibly bad to get a ? on the front.

  3. #33
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Thought I'd start a thread about the use of annotation marks. I'm interested in people's comments about some issues to see if there is, or isn't, any degree of consensus about these issues. I'll give some sample questions and some comments on them, but in some cases my own views aren't too clear.

    Can a move deserve !!! or ???

    I generally try to keep it to a maximum of two just because Fine's (often escalating) use of larger numbers of !s and ?s in a row for given moves in his otherwise brilliant "Basic Chess Endings" drives me up the wall. Now and then it is fun to use ??????????????????????? for an especially silly blunder, eg in a pure pawn ending, especially if it is one's own.

    What about hybrids like !!?, or ?!?!

    Sometimes I think ??! is justified, for instance if one is in a bad position and plays a move that objectively makes things totally lost, but that might save the position or win if the opponent walks into a trap. I can't see much use for !!?, !?!, ?!? or anything involving four or more symbols.

    What is the status of the second-best move?

    Suppose you have a number of moves available. One of them leads to a clear advantage, one leads to an unclear advantage with best play by the opponent and a clear win if the opponent errs, and all the rest lead to no advantage at all. What is the status of the second move? Is it !? because it is a good try and one of the better moves available or is it ?! because it is clearly suboptimal?

    Are !? and ?! opposites or can a move sometimes be both?

    "?!" means "dubious" while "!?" either means "interesting" or "deserving attention". Sometimes "?!" is used to mean "unclear status but likely to be bad" while sometimes it seems to mean "bad, but not bad enough to deserve a full ?" Sometimes "!?" is used to mean "unclear status but likely to be good" while sometimes it seems to mean "completely unclear, requires more analysis". So I think they are not quite opposites, but a move can't really be both.

    How bad does a move have to be to be ??

    Is "blundering" a pawn in the opening (say 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 a6) deserving of "??". Is it the consequences of the move, or the stupidity of the move, that determine whether something is a "blunder"? Is a move that loses outright, but only to a very brilliant combination most players would never see, a "blunder"? (I tend to use ?? for anything that changes a non-lost position into a clearly lost one, with some lenience when annotating games by juniors.)

    What about moves that are just a shade suboptimal?

    Some moves are just a little bit short of best play but hardly seem bad enough to deserve "?!" Perhaps in this case they should just be left blank, but I used to have my own annotation for this when going through my scoresheet in a post-mortem. I used to use the symbol "~" to indicate moves that are just a little bit "iffy" because they are not quite the sharpest knife in the drawer.

    Might add some more questions later.
    1. It is deserved if one holds down the key too long or presses it one more time in excitement. Such actions are considered a 'Freudian slip'.

    2. Hybrids are well suited if the annotations are satirical in nature; otherwise, there are better ways of expressing one's creativity, such as with '$#!*' to let the reader's imagination fill the blanks.

    3. The second-best move can go unmarked, but !? can be suitable for a good practical try. The second-best move against the computer can be the best move against your opponent.

    4. It can be both, but usually one can tell which it belongs to with experience. For instance, if the ! move is difficult to find, then !? may be warranted. If the move is still good but a better chance was missed, ?! is probably indicated. And 99% of people will not care either way, especially if you included some witty quip with the annotation mark.

    5. I use ?? quite rarely, in case I meet that player at a tournament. That said, one dude on the internet developed a vendetta after I gave his move an '!', so perhaps one should use ?? freely for blunders after all.

    6. I sometimes use no mark, sometimes '?!'. It depends on my feelings at the time, and how easily I found the best move.

    Of course, it is much easier to follow Robert Huebner and not give an exclamation mark to any moves, but I do not like wasting any opportunity for creative expression. I am, after all, a writer.

    Perhaps the most interesting question, now that we have engines, is 'When should one use the 'with compensation' symbol?' Possibly, when you want to confuse your future opponents.
    Grandmaster, FIDE Trainer, 2018-19 Australian Champion

    Do you love your chess as much as I do?

    What is your chess dream?

    Are you willing to do what it takes?

    Everyone who is an expert at something now...learned from another expert.

    Share your chess journey with me – illingworthchess@gmail.com – and I’ll give you my 7-Page Basic Chess Training Plan, to direct your chess training and improvement.

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA (formerly Brisbane, and before that Wellington, NZ)
    Posts
    19,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I think this often depends on what kind of move the setting-up move is. If it is an otherwise losing sacrifice annotators might be more inclined to give it "!!" but if it is just some positional move that would otherwise not cause much damage they might be more reluctant. Probably if the setting-up move requires seeing the brilliant idea then it deserves the "!!".
    Makes sense. Edward Winter says that over a century ago, when games were published in a column format, a punctuation mark would be bracketed over the whole move sequence for a combination, and provides an example.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  5. #35
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,989
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Makes sense. Edward Winter says that over a century ago, when games were published in a column format, a punctuation mark would be bracketed over the whole move sequence for a combination, and provides an example.
    When writing chess books or articles - sometimes when the authors want to truly emphasize the way they were feeling they accompany their movies with ...?????!!!!!!!! etc. so not everyone follows the ''formal'' Informator system.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •