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  1. #1
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    players opinion on position

    Hi

    Had this position as white in a recent game.
    I felt that white was equal with a minor (0.1) edge.
    Black felt that he was significantly better.

    Could players please give their opinion. Black to move

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    Last edited by CameronD; 20-06-2008 at 10:14 PM.

  2. #2
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    I give up trying to get this stupid code to work. Will have to write below...

    White
    K e1
    Q d2
    R a1 h1
    N c3 f3
    p a2 b2 c4 d4 f2 g2 h3

    Black
    K e8
    Q d8
    R a8 h8
    B b7
    N c6
    p a6 b6 d6 e6 f5 g5 h6

  3. #3
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    After the colour and the two dashes I just add 0 and then 1. I fixed yours up above.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 20-06-2008 at 10:23 PM.
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  4. #4
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    thanks

  5. #5
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Curious position. I initially thought black was better (strong looking bishop, massive space advantage, white knights passive etc). But white can play d5 and appears able to hold that square indefinitely. After that move, the black pawn structure is compromised and the bishop is no longer threatening. I'm not convinced that black is significantly better for that reason; the good old copout "unclear but roughly equal" seems closer to the mark.

    Stronger players than me may have more useful insights!
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  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Curious position. I initially thought black was better (strong looking bishop, massive space advantage, white knights passive etc). But white can play d5 and appears able to hold that square indefinitely.
    It's black's move.

    I wanted to play either
    • 17... Ne7 with a view to d5 when I was ready, or the N heading to f5 via g6, or
    • 17... Qf6

    I spent 15 minutes on the move and didn't like black's N sac on g5 (after Ne7). So I played the in between move (not!), g4 expecting to force the Nf3 back in its box - completely missing the newly opened file afforded by the pawn exchange. As a result, white's idiot Nf3 gets a game and Gunner trashes a coupla more ratings points!

    What Cam says is true; I thought I was considerably better. Cam kindly suggested the I might be dreamin'. The box agrees with Cam - and that black is not better. I do wonder whether the box has slightly more difficulty assessing (20 secs only) the position because the forces aren't clashing and the ideas are a little more long term and positional.

    What I do know is that I'd prefer to be black any day of the week (until I grow up to be a better player, anyway).

    The game.

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    Last edited by Basil; 21-06-2008 at 09:35 AM.
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  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    32... Rc2 forces a draw.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 21-06-2008 at 12:41 AM.
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  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    32... Rc2 forces a draw.
    True. Except I thought I was winning
    Last edited by Basil; 21-06-2008 at 12:36 AM.
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    14... fxe4 would have also dramatically increased black's game (obvious) but I didn't play it and I reminded of far I am yet to go in my chess development curve.

    I thought Cam played very well in the second half of the game. He was kind enough to suggest a draw would have been the best result.
    Last edited by Basil; 21-06-2008 at 12:40 AM.
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  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    It's black's move.
    Yes, but Black can't really stop d5 - not without incurring other weaknesses in the process. If you play ...Ne7 with a view to d5 then white plays d5 straight away.

    I do wonder whether the box has slightly more difficulty assessing (20 secs only) the position because he forces aren't clashing and the ideas are a little more long term and positional.
    Indeed. It is a difficult position for a computer to make sense of. Mine starts out with white better by 0.1-0.2 then depending on what series of plausible moves I enter in it may go down to zero or head up to as high as 0.6. Actually I'm surprised Fritz doesn't like black here because my observation of Fritz 11 is that early in its assessment of any particular move it seems to value space advantage very highly.

    You've probably already noticed (if you've put that position in front of the silicon critter) that 19...Qe7 instead of ...Qf6 is not too bad for black.

    I'm not so sure about my "roughly equal" claim below. I think white's better in practical terms if the players are quite strong. At average club level though black would normally have good chances because the exploitation of a space advantage is more likely to be seen than super-accurate positional play. It just happened that in this case it backfired giving the opponent activity.
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  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    14... fxe4 would have also dramatically increased black's game (obvious) but I didn't play it and I reminded of far I am yet to go in my chess development curve.
    Yes, looks good. In the diagrammed position, 17... e5 looks best. 17... g4 was definitely wrong because it broke the large K-side pawn island.
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  12. #12
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    I prefer white.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    17... e5 looks best.
    de5 with qe3 and probably nd5 to follow. I think e5 is asking for trouble.

  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    32... Rc2 forces a draw.
    38...Rc2+ (the reason for the check is that otherwise Nb4 threatens Nc6 with mate) 39.Kb1 g3 is also good for a draw but much less obvious.
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  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    38...Rc2+ (the reason for the check is that otherwise Nb4 threatens Nc6 with mate) 39.Kb1 g3 is also good for a draw but much less obvious.
    Bit difficult for both players at this stage. Both players only had a couple of mins (+ 30 secs per move) to make 2 moves to get to the 40 move time control, then they receive another 15 mins each (+ 30 secs per move till end of game).

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    I prefer white.
    Black is rather loose, with no Ps left on home base.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangafranga
    de5 with qe3 and probably nd5 to follow. I think e5 is asking for trouble.
    Even after 18... Nxe5 ?
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

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