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  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Wonderful to see PM Kevin "I don't recall" Rudd lecturing us on moderation in respect of alcohol consumption. Maybe he's too drunk now (on power) to recall that a couple of years ago he was too drunk (on alcohol) to recall what he was doing in that New York strip club. Enough to make me vomit ... and I haven't been drinking (enough).
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    You know this is starting to make you sound like a Lefty wailing about the conservative government's axing of some ad-hoc Lefty handout or another
    Of course, this only works because Lefties have demonised conservatives as lacking in compassion, despite the facts, without telling anyone that "compassion" to a lefty means generosity with other people's money.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiny Norman
    Wonderful to see PM Kevin "I don't recall" Rudd lecturing us on moderation in respect of alcohol consumption. Maybe he's too drunk now (on power) to recall that a couple of years ago he was too drunk (on alcohol) to recall what he was doing in that New York strip club. Enough to make me vomit ... and I haven't been drinking (enough).
    How is this tu quoque relevant? His drinking habits doesn't make binge drinking any safer or any less of an important thing to prevent.

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    You know this is starting to make you sound like a Lefty wailing about the conservative government's axing of some ad-hoc Lefty handout or another.
    If it sounds like that, you aren't listening closely enough.

    I've complained about nothing (except welling nausea). I am highlighting again double standards that if John Howard were to razor benefits (not that he ever did ), then

    (1) the country would be drowning in a sea of marching, venting, mealy-mouthed lefties screaming crap about not representing the under-privileged.
    (2) the opposition left of Kevin, Julia, Wayne et al belting out the OUT OF TOUCH WITH ORDINARY AUSTRALIANS mantra.
    (3) Every bloody union and associated axe-grinding bleeding heart would be out in support.

    which historically (as you all well know, even if it works to your advantage) fuels an hysteria of water-cooler, adolescent brain-washing, hyperbole.

    That said, I am pleased to note that there is very little evidence on this board of known lefties trying to play that impossible game of twister in justifying the shambles that the Labor Party has made of this one. If your best effort is that this all sounds like a whinge, then I am truly heartened that some of the Mr Sheen veneer might be coming off for 'The 3'.

    But the main point for the thinking voter at least (and especially the ones that had never lived through a Labor government) is that of the incredible double-standards that apply to man left voters.

    As to the Rudd policy itself, I have made no comment whatsoever save observe that many people benefited from the bonus.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  5. #35
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Care for a guess?

    (Don't look this way for an accurate one. When Howard was first elected I thought he would not last that long - but I expected him to be more radical from the outset than he was - instead he extended his longevity with the aid of a compliantly obstructive (yes, that's possible!) Senate.)
    indeed.

    No I don't care for a guess. While most seasoned (and balanced) adults (I firmly include you in that category) will accept that in their life-time, there will be approx. equal years of Lib and Lab, my main thrust here is to defrag the newly-hatched lefties from their simplistic ideals.

    This episode certainly won't change a government. Its not sufficient in size and there will have to be many more episodes like this to have traction and furthermore there will need to be an opposition capable of making hay. That's all way too far down the track for me to comment.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Howard had a penchant for throwing ad-hoc "cash bonuses" out to various groups, often just prior to an election, and often completely separate from the usual allowances or pensions - the result is a godawful mess of allowances and bonuses that takes a tax accountant to figure out.
    I assume you had the class and self-respect to acknowledge and put that identical argument when the GST was introduced cleaning up a raft of hidden and outmoded taxes.

    As for the bone-throwing, I don't deny it, but again it's as old as the hills with al players well at it. Again, if that's all you've got in defence of this monumental cock-up, I'm liking this situation more by the minute.

    ITS A BALLS UP, JERRY - A RIGHT ROYAL COCK-UP!
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    (1) the country would be drowning in a sea of marching, venting, mealy-mouthed lefties screaming crap about not representing the under-privileged.
    (2) the opposition left of Kevin, Julia, Wayne et al belting out the OUT OF TOUCH WITH ORDINARY AUSTRALIANS mantra.
    (3) Every bloody union and associated axe-grinding bleeding heart would be out in support.
    Isn't that basically what is happening, except in reverse?

    1) A bunch of people (a mix of lefties and conservatives that just want the opportunity of beating up on Rudd) are howling about the Government leaving carers/oldies in the lurch
    2) The opposition left of Nelson and Turnbull are wailing about the Government's lack of compassion

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    I assume you had the class and self-respect to acknowledge and put that identical argument when the GST was introduced cleaning up a raft of hidden and outmoded taxes.
    Actually, I did. In a public debate, taking the side "that the GST would be good for Australia" (we won btw).

    I had serious concerns about the GST being regressive compared to the income tax which it replaced (which it is), but there was certainly no disputing that the tax code was (and probably still is) too complicated with too many taxes and levies.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Again, if that's all you've got in defence of this monumental cock-up, I'm liking this situation more by the minute.
    Sorry, what's a cock-up? That the government wants to simplify a bunch of ad-hoc benefits and bonuses? Or that the opposition is going to howl loud enough to make it politically impossible?

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Isn't that basically what is happening, except in reverse?
    Jon, I don't want to say it a third time. So for the second time, I am highlighting the double standard at play.

    The double standard is not that the current situation is a reversal of what has happened when government & opposition roles were reversed. That's all part of the politicking of the last 100 years in the western world, viz the "the mob in government are cretins and are heartless".

    The double standard is the pathetic misapprehension promoted by many newly-indoctrinated hatched lefties that somehow the Labor Party is the party of caring lord protectors which stands between the evil abyss of the rich and all good right-thinking men.

    So while I make no comment (here) as to whether the policy is a good one, and no comment (here) as to whether the Liberals are doing what Labor would have done had the situation been reversed, I am pointing out that when daddy says

    "Those Liberals will cut away the very fabric of your soul but salt of the earth Labor will be there to catch you", daddy was either a lying hound or more likely a clueless victim of what his daddy had told him.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  11. #41
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Sorry, what's a cock-up? That the government wants to simplify a bunch of ad-hoc benefits and bonuses? Or that the opposition is going to howl loud enough to make it politically impossible?
    You're just obfuscating. When you say "what's the cockup" and offer two non-candidate answers, do you mean to demonstrate that you don't believe the Labor party has cocked this up? If you'll now state that there has been no cock-up, I'll state the bleeding obvious answer your question and tell you what the cock-up is.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Actually, I did. In a public debate, taking the side "that the GST would be good for Australia" (we won btw).
    Most commendable.

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I had serious concerns about the GST being regressive compared to the income tax which it replaced (which it is),
    Hang on, the GST replaced the raft of variable sales taxes and some (not nearly enough) of the state taxes that were just as regressive but had no consistency or sound reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    but there was certainly no disputing that the tax code was (and probably still is) too complicated with too many taxes and levies.
    Yes, and the state stamp duty is hurting homebuyers, and state payroll taxes still fine employers for hiring people.

    The LDP's 30/30 is the only proposal I've seen that's a sensible tax system. Tinkering around with the current monstrosity won't help.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    You're just obfuscating. When you say "what's the cockup" and offer two non-candidate answers, do you mean to demonstrate that you don't believe the Labor party has cocked this up? If you'll now state that there has been no cock-up, I'll state the bleeding obvious answer your question and tell you what the cock-up is.
    Why don't you enlighten me? I really don't know what you are referring to..

  14. #44
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    Why don't you enlighten me? I really don't know what you are referring to..
    Amazing. It's what we've been talking about all day.

    1. Rudd Overseas (convenient).
    2. Scraping 2 allowances - carers and pensioners (surely not tha battlas!).
    3. Associating the scraping with belt-tightening (it's the economy, stupid).
    4. Backlash.
    5. Staring into a camera and saying (we'll save ya - no one gets left in the lurch on Kev's watch). How f***ing emabarrassing. I think you'll be surprised at how many people see the duplicity - even if you won't.

    There was no mention of reinstating the withdrawn benefits, save for a slightly increased utilities allowance. That was the policy as taken out with the trash late last week, while Teflon Boy was overseas.

    Labor's quick patch-up job? Now, there might be something in the budget. Labor says "we don't know what it is or if we do, we're not telling you!".

    The country is in uproar. Labor is on the back foot. If you don't think that is a cock up, fine. You can change your handle to Robinson Crusoe anytime you like.
    Last edited by Basil; 11-03-2008 at 07:30 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  15. #45
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    the punch and judy show rolls on.....

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