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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Hardly. Some priests give communion to anyone who asks for it. Some think it's OK to give communion to "Catholic" politicians who spit on Catholic teachings on life and marriage.
    Communion isn't the Last Rites! And my point was mainly that McVeigh asked for the Last Rites, not that he was given them. A non-Catholic wouldn't ask for them, and a priest wouldn't give them to a non-Catholic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Don't be ridiculous all your life. What part of "penitent" don't you understand? They repented of their Nazi actions as contrary to the Christian faith. ...
    So they were Christians and Nazis, as I said!

  2. #467
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Communion isn't the Last Rites!
    Same strictures apply. When Göring wanted bet-hedging communion on the eve of the scheduled execution (which he anticipated with suicide by cyanide), it was the Missouri Synod Lutheran equivalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    And my point was mainly that McVeigh asked for the Last Rites, not that he was given them. A non-Catholic wouldn't ask for them, and a priest wouldn't give them to a non-Catholic.
    Depends on the priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So they were Christians and Nazis, as I said!
    Not at the same time. That's the important thing.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

  3. #468
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Not at the same time. That's the important thing.
    In 1930s Germany 90% of the population identified as either Lutheran or Catholic. You do the maths.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Depends on the priest.
    You seem to be ignoring my point that McVeigh asked for the Catholic Last Rites! Why would a non-Catholic do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Not at the same time. That's the important thing.
    You have evidence that they converted after their capture? Otherwise they would have been both.

  5. #470
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    You seem to be ignoring my point that McVeigh asked for the Catholic Last Rites! Why would a non-Catholic do that?
    For the same reason Göring asked for communion, although he claimed that "Jesus was just another smart Jew."

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    You have evidence that they converted after their capture? Otherwise they would have been both.
    That's what repentance means. It was certainly the opinion of theologically conservative Catholic priest and Lutheran pastors, who had seen first hand the horrors that these men wrought.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    For the same reason Göring asked for communion, although he claimed that "Jesus was just another smart Jew."
    Because they were both Christians, even if they had doubts

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    That's what repentance means. ...
    No it doesn't! You can already be a Christian and still repent - that's the whole point of confession. The question is, did they convert (which could involve repentance, of course)?

  7. #472
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    In my view neither the taking of Catholic rites nor the choice of Invictus prove anything much about McVeigh's religious beliefs - he most likely chose the poem because he liked it without thinking through its consistency with his other views to any great degree, and his choice of a religious ritual could have been hedging or just because he found it culturally fitting. But as I've already mentioned he stated the year after his terrorist attack that he held Catholic core beliefs, so either he should be considered Catholic or else we should question the sincerity of every Islamist crying Alluha Akbar and waving Daesh flags.

  8. #473
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    More sexist discrimination under TalkBull

    Stop! Diversity police, this is just too much
    Mark Latham, The Daily Telegraph
    9 October 2017

    Among the many changes harming our national way of life, the worst of them is the decline in meritocracy.

    Traditionally, the Australian “fair go” principle was based on treating people on merit.

    It didn’t matter if someone was male or female, straight or gay, black or white, the best person for the job usually got the job.

    But now in the era of identity politics, positions are being reserved for people on the basis of race, gender and sexuality — regardless of merit.

    Two months ago, for instance, when the Defence Force was caught out introducing female-only recruitment, it was big news.

    People were upset that well-qualified male applicants had no chance of serving their country in uniform simply because they had the wrong genitalia.

    Yet two weeks ago, when the Australian Federal Police (AFP) also announced a female-only intake, the political system barely let out a whimper.

    Commissioner Andrew Colvin believes “gender balance” will foster a wider range of workplace skills but in practice this has been a disaster.

    “The place is totally demoralised,” a federal policeman told me last week,

    “Automatically picking women makes the male officers feel like we are not wanted here, we’re not part of the AFP’s future.”

    Another officer spoke of how bullying and intimidation from recently promoted female managers is now commonplace.

    “They have turned the AFP into a political battleground, with conflict between those of us who don’t support the gender focus and those who do”, he said. “Why can’t they just pick the best person for the job and allow us to get on with our work?”

    Ironically, female staff have not benefited from the changes.

    They are seen as second-class workers, who are seen as having gained their positions through a gender-biased process.

    For women who actually got into the force on merit, this is doubly damaging.

    They are as good as any man but have to suffer from a workplace perception of favouritism.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

  9. #474
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Stop! Diversity police, this is just too much
    Mark Latham, The Daily Telegraph
    9 October 2017

    ...It didn’t matter if someone was male or female, straight or gay, black or white, the best person for the job usually got the job.…
    Dream on, Mark

  10. #475
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    What do those numbers prove, unless you make the non sequitur: numerical disparity is ipso facto proof of discrimination? Didn't you vote for him as PM?

    But the main point he is raising is: since sexual discrimination is wrong, don't discriminate on the basis of sex! Then at the end of the article, he points out that the AFP is asking sexual preferences, so the LGBT can be 10% of the police force by 2020, although they are only 2–3% of the population:

    In any case, how does being gay or female or any other personal identity make someone a better police officer?

    There is no evidence in any part of the world of this being true.

    The AFP has huge responsibilities for keeping Australians safe, especially in its counter-terrorism work and protection of public officials.

    It is betraying this sacred obligation by selecting staff on criteria other than merit.

    It should never have moved away from an authentic Australian approach to recruitment — judging people fairly and giving the job to the best available person.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

  11. #476
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    What do those numbers prove, unless you make the non sequitur: numerical disparity is ipso facto proof of discrimination?
    The alternative conclusion is that selections were made on merit and men are significantly more meritorious than women. Which is more likely?

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    The alternative conclusion is that selections were made on merit and men are significantly more meritorious than women. Which is more likely?
    False alternatives. Another is that fewer women applied. Disparities are the norm throughout history, even when the people who ended up in greater numbers were not in any position to discriminate.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

  13. #478
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    False alternatives. Another is that fewer women applied. Disparities are the norm throughout history, even when the people who ended up in greater numbers were not in any position to discriminate.
    From the WGEA datasheet:

    Women in leadership

    Latest results from the Agency’s dataset show:

    Women hold 14.2% of chair positions, 23.6% of directorships, as well as represent 15.4% of CEOs and 27.4% of key management personnel
    in Agency reporting organisations

    One quarter (25.1%) of Agency reporting organisations have no key management personnel who are women.

    Real time statistics from the AICD reveal:

    23.4% of directors in the ASX 200 are women in January 2016

    Women account for 40.0% of new appointments to ASX 200 boards in January 2016

    10.0% of ASX 200 companies do not have a woman on their board

    Filling key positions is by selection not application. So, if 36.7% of the fulltime workforce is female and leaders are selected on merit, there should be ~37% women and 63% men. Less than that means women are not being selected fairly on merit.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    What do those numbers prove,
    I'd say #473 proves you have trouble counting to 3 paragraphs.
    meep meep

  15. #480
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Filling key positions is by selection not application. So, if 36.7% of the fulltime workforce is female and leaders are selected on merit, there should be ~37% women and 63% men. Less than that means women are not being selected fairly on merit.
    Again, not proven. Leadership positions often require long hours at the office, and women are often more sensible about prioritizing family time over work.

    But apparently your answer is to select women over men regardless of merit, just like the emasculated politically correct Polizei and military. Of course, affirmative action hires don't get the respect, and neither do they deserve it. The problem is that this disrespect carries over to the members of the favoured group who earned their positions on merit.
    1. Terrorist attacks by Muslims.
    The Left: We shouldn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few thousand.

    2. Thug murders people (in gun free zone).
    The Left: We should judge all 50 American gun owners by the actions of a few.

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