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  1. #16
    CC Candidate Master
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    Hi All,

    Things are progressing well with SAJCL/SACA arrangments for a bid if Chess Victoria cant agree with ACF on an acceptable bid in the next two or three days or if they even wish or are able to proceed given the very recent changes in personel at Chess Victoria.

    Hopefully a venue and sponsorship can be sorted out in a few weeks and everyones mind can be put at rest. It seems that to facilitate a timing that doesnt clash with the NZ tourney is possible but very tight.

    Anyway any other detail should and will be made available to ACF first as early as possible. The sooner ACF knows the sooner I can let you guys know on ChessChat.

    Kindest Regards
    Last edited by frog; 15-02-2008 at 05:56 AM.
    frog

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    good luck!

    Judging by the way you guys organised Lidums last year (the only one I have attended), the AJC would be in good hands if you are given the green light to do it! Cheers and good luck!
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    CV and Junior Chess

    I see that there is an exchange of views going on on the Toolbox, following the apparent inability of CV to respond to the ACF's comments on its bid, in which Trevor Stanning is variously complaining bitterly about the advantages that some other States have over Victoria in junior events and the inability of CV's ACF delegate to make proposals to the ACF for changes in the ACF's by-laws regarding junior events.

    This approach is puzzling to say the least.

    The reason why States and Territories like NSW, SA and the ACT are better organised is that each has its own Junior Chess League. Victoria does not. Not only that but CV has positions of Junior Chess Director and Schools Co-ordinator both of which are currently vacant, the Junior Chess Director position also having been vacant in 2007. Consequently it is little wonder that junior chess organisation in Victoria is languishing.

    The comment about CV's ACF delegate is even more puzzling given that Trevor is a member of the CV Executive. A State Association's ACF Delegate is appointed by the State Association which may dismiss or replace him at any time (ACF Constitution, cl. 5.b.). So if CV thinks its delegate is not doing what CV would like to see done the remedy lies with the CV Executive, for example by way of instruction to the delegate or by way of getting a new one.

    It's not unfair to suggest that CV does not really take the matter of its representation on the ACF Council seriously. For example, when the Council was voting on the CV bid for the Australian Championships, the CV delegate was absent and when the Council was considering the CV bid for these Junior Championships, CV made a last minute appointment of a delegate who had not been properly instructed and felt he had to abstain from voting. Moreover CV has not had a representative on the ACF Junior Chess Subcommittee since its formation in 2004.

    QED

    DJ
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 21-02-2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: redundant DJ deleted
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    It's not unfair to suggest that CV does not really take the matter of its representation on the ACF Council seriously...
    It appears to me that CV has a poor CV. Sorry.

    I can only put that down to today at the office. Much mirth was had when we realised that Advertising Dept. duo Col (Colleen) and Mel (Melanie) could be summoned in unison with a call of 'melancholy'! Eugggghhhh. Yup. Pffft.

    OK. Carry on with the important business of chess administration. Thank you.
    Last edited by Basil; 20-02-2008 at 10:57 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    I see that Trevor had now posted something that, with imagination, one might take to be a response to my post above but in typical fashion he has utterly missed the point. He was crying for ACF people to debate him on the matter in the Toolbox (I suppose because he wants the "support" of his Rottweilers the Tool and mad Matt, both of whom are justly banned here). But, even were one inclined to visit that den of iniquity, there is little point when the standard of debate there is pre-school.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    The school-box?
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    ACF juniors

    In my opinion, ACF has a very clear cut and comprehensible policy concerning Juniors.
    This policy does not exlude discussion on all matters by State representatives. On the contrary, it (the policy) encourages discussion, proposals and initiatives on behalf of the States.
    I strongly believe that any public discussions, including expressions of opposite views, on this policy, should be conducted within the parameters of the existing ACF constitution.
    As much as I am a staunch supporter of my State's (CV) authorities, I am equally faithful and enthusiastic on the abilities, merits and aspirations of ACF.
    Cheers and good luck!
    ACF 3118316
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  8. #23
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    I see that Trevor had now posted something that, with imagination, one might take to be a response to my post above but in typical fashion he has utterly missed the point. He was crying for ACF people to debate him on the matter in the Toolbox (I suppose because he wants the "support" of his Rottweilers the Tool and mad Matt, both of whom are justly banned here). But, even were one inclined to visit that den of iniquity, there is little point when the standard of debate there is pre-school.
    Yes the obfuscation over there by Trevor is up to his usual stand.

    The criticism is not directed at the CV Delegate, but at the 2007 CV Executive for failing to ensure they had a representative at the relevant ACF Council meetings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    If CV were so interested in their 2009 Australian Junior bid then why did not the then CV President or the Trevor Stanning (who was listed in the document as the CV Treasurer although the CV website said the position was vacant) bother to take part via the telephone hookup.

    Also Trevor Stanning laments on the 15th January they are unaware of the ACF's decision. One really has to wonder why the then CV Executive didnt bother asking the delegate they had hastily appointed to attend the January ACF Council meeting what happened at the meeting regarding their bid.
    This just highlights an apparent complete lack of interest by the 2007 CV President or Trevor Stanning in their 2009 Australian Junior bid.

    In fact rather than rabbit on about issues he clearly has no understanding of, Trevor should explain why he and the 2007 CV President chose to submit a bid that bore no resemblance whatsoever to any of the successful bids for the Australian Juniors over the past 7+ years.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  9. #24
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Yes the obfuscation over there by Trevor is up to his usual stand.

    The criticism is not directed at the CV Delegate, but at the 2007 CV Executive for failing to ensure they had a representative at the relevant ACF Council meetings.


    This just highlights an apparent complete lack of interest by the 2007 CV President or Trevor Stanning in their 2009 Australian Junior bid.

    In fact rather than rabbit on about issues he clearly has no understanding of, Trevor should explain why he and the 2007 CV President chose to submit a bid that bore no resemblance whatsoever to any of the successful bids for the Australian Juniors over the past 7+ years.
    Just as CV's failure to have a Junior Chess Director for the past year and a bit and its apparent failure to attempt to organise junior chess in Victoria indicates a general lack of interest in junior chess. Trevor conveniently ignores this aspect of my post - another trait of his method of argument.

    The pity of it is that CV has a fully competent Junior Chess person on its Executive, though the extent to which her views have been heeded is uncertain, and Victoria has some of the best chess coaches in Australia if only CV would make proper use of their talents. It seems that Trevor has an abhorrence of chess coaches but now that there are three of them on the Executive he may have to face reality.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  10. #25
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    The pity of it is that CV has a fully competent Junior Chess person on its Executive, though the extent to which her views have been heeded is uncertain,
    Not only has but had and from looking at their 2009 Australian Junior bid document it would appear that the 2007 CV President and Trevor did not pay any attention whatsoever.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  11. #26
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    As anticipated Rottweiller no. 1 - the Tool - has now moved in to the fray with a typically nonsensical contribution in which he describes me as ageing and recently retired though the latter aspect is more than a little puzzling. Also, typically, but perhaps deliberately, he spells my given name wrongly. (On second thoughts, it's probably sheer ignorance/incompetence as he also always misspells David Cordover's surname.)

    The failure of CV to reach some kind of rapprochement with DC and to ensure that CV, in the absence of a Victorian Junior Chess League, delivers proper developmental coaching to its juniors via DC and all the other competent coaches there are in Victoria is the very thing to which I was referring.

    I may be ageing, though no faster than the Tool and from a sounder mental infrastructure, but I am quite aware of many things in Australian Chess administration, among other things, that are both outside and beyond the comprehension of the Tool.

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  12. #27
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    ... the Tool - has now moved in to the fray with a typically nonsensical contribution
    His specialty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    Also, typically, but perhaps deliberately, he spells my given name wrongly.
    His specialty. Not deliberate. A quick review of his work here reveals persistent ineptitude in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    I may be ageing, though no faster than the Tool and from a sounder mental infrastructure
    Ain't that the truth? But hardly noteworthy as we can all lay claim to fame on that score

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    ... but I am quite aware of many things in Australian Chess administration ...
    Ah. That's where you have the advantage over him!
    Last edited by Basil; 21-02-2008 at 05:45 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  13. #28
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    victorian junior chess

    I was not in any way involved in the Chess Victoria application for the Australian Junior and have no axe to grind.

    There are some problems facing Victorian Junior Chess that I cannot discuss due to what are called libel laws. Nevertheless in my opinion the problems make it more difficult to handle junior chess in Victoria than in other states. this is a real pain in the kneck.

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    ACF Olympiad Appeal Director

    Libby on the Toolbox tickled Trevor Stanning's whatsit with a jibe at the ACF about the Olympiad Appeal Director.

    It misfired; though not that it's Libby's fault.

    Ian Murray was appointed ACF Olympiad Appeal Director on 20 February 2008 on an e-mail vote held over the preceding couple of days.

    His appointment has, of course, no relation to the matter we are talking about.

    DJ

    PS In reply, Trevor said he thought that I am not serious in referring to a rapprochement with David Cordover. That comment perhaps shows how one can be too close to the action to see what is really happening. Moreover my comment was in response to one from the Tool that raised the DC question. The fact is that unless someone acts in a statesmanlike way and brokers some kind of settlement of this matter, the junior chess woes of CV will not cease. Various views of DC are put forward but one thing that does not seem to be challenged is that he is a good organiser of junior chess events and people of his experience are needed. I have had sufficient contact with DC personally to be able to say this.

    I was amused by Trevor's comment, in reply to a question from Libby why people haven't volunteered for the vacant CV junior positions, that Victorians don't volunteer. I fear that that comment sums up perfectly why CV is so ineffective currently. For years everyone relied on GW and now that he is gone there is nobody willing, or perhaps able, to fill the gap.
    Last edited by Denis_Jessop; 21-02-2008 at 08:54 PM. Reason: PS Added
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  15. #30
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    Victorian Junior Chess

    The CV 2007 Victorian Junior Championships were held at their ACF despised Canterbury venue and attracted record fields of 38 in the under 18 section and 79 in the under 12 section. These entries were ahead of the published NSW figures of 34 and 59. Where Victoria lags is in the number of girls playing and the past and present CV executives are well aware of this failure.
    Victorian players did well in the just completed Australian Junior championships with the under 16 girls title the under 12 and under 8 open titles going to Victorians. Our under 10 representative just missing out in the play-off
    Victorian schools teams did well again in 2007 with Balwyn High taking out the secondary schools title.
    CV not interested in Junior Chess?

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