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Thread: The '3'

  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    So - "the 3". I wonder if there are any ruminations as to their wanting a refund on their KRudd vote.
    There is absolutely no indication of that.
    1. An apology not representative and consultative of "all Australians"
    .. yet one which was apparently supported by the vast majority of Australians.
    2. Today's announcement that the government plans to cut 2,000 Centrelink jobs. The policy slammed by unions in its entirety and specifically by Public Sector Union as a broken pre-election promise
    I don't imagine annoying the Unions is going to do them much harm.

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    There is absolutely no indication of that.
    Ruminations, Watson, ruminations. If true, wouldn't be showing up in the polls yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I don't imagine annoying the Unions is going to do them much harm.
    Is that arrogance on the back of a 3% ball game, I hear? I hope this sort of silly talk pervades the party quick-smart. Then Kevin B's joke poll option may not be such a joke after all.

    The test of your assertion would be "would Kevin say that to their faces?." The answer is no. I reject the same glib answer (your best?) in this thread.

    BTW, are you in favour of the cuts? Do you have a rationale? Or do you want what Kevin (either) wants?
    Last edited by Basil; 23-02-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    <snip>
    I forget who Jono quoted. "If you're not voting left by age 20, you haven't got a heart. If you're not voting right by 40, you haven't got a brain."
    But whoever it was he, she or it was a nong, or even a ning-nong

    It must also have been fairly recent as it's not all that long ago that Australians didn't have a vote until age 21. I suspect it was Jono quoting himself

    DJ
    ...I don't want to go among mad people Alice remarked, "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: we're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat ,"or you wouldn't have come here."

  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    It must also have been fairly recent as it's not all that long ago that Australians didn't have a vote until age 21.
    Perhaps it wasn't the vote, but sympathies.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  5. #20
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    1. An apology not representative and consultative of "all Australians"
    Howard peddled "for all Australians" nonsense ad nauseum while frequently engaging in divisive nonsense so I doubt an apology supported by an overwhelming majority is going to annoy those who did not support it (and were not already Liberal voters), especially given that he took it to the election first.

    Psephelogically, the apology will do Rudd no net damage, and will probably cost him far less support than he gains. The issues that could quickly hurt his government are coming - they are economic ones, and they are big ones indeed.

    2. Today's announcement that the government plans to cut 2,000 Centrelink jobs.
    Do you really want me to express an advocative view on this?

    As for the saying you mention, the version of it I'm familiar with is "If you're not a communist at age 20, you haven't got a heart. If you're still a communist at age 30, you haven't got a brain."

    There are actually a great many versions of it and they are attributed to just about everyone who is not a middle-aged hardcore leftie: for example see here.

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    Howie - I love your quote (about 20 and 40)

    but....

    why the F are you worrying about Ruddy's move that upsets Unions ?

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Howard peddled "for all Australians" nonsense ad nauseum while frequently engaging in divisive nonsense so I doubt an apology supported by an overwhelming majority is going to annoy those who did not support it (and were not already Liberal voters), especially given that he took it to the election first.
    I think you underestimate (probably deliberately) how many naive starry-eyed fools are out there - especially young uns (a good dozen work with me). There would be many in this country who genuinely believed that Kevin is and will be wholesome and pure and marvelous. It will slowly dawn on them that:
    - he is a politician
    - expediency is part of the gig
    - 2,000 government job cuts actually happen IRL and not because John Howard was evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Psephelogically, the apology will do Rudd no net damage, and will probably cost him far less support than he gains.
    Well I simply don't know. I accept that you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Do you really want me to express an advocative view on this?
    Yes! I wanna see you upset your fellow lefties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    As for the saying you mention, the version of it I'm familiar with is "If you're not a communist at age 20, you haven't got a heart. If you're still a communist at age 30, you haven't got a brain."
    Good-o. Thanks.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #23
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett
    why the F are you worrying about Ruddy's move that upsets Unions ?
    Not worried at all. I've seen left factions and stakeholders chew each other's arms off in shark-like feeding frenzies on more than one occasion in both the northern and southern hemispheres.

    ATM, everyone connected with the left side of politics is on their absolute Sunday best behaviour while Kevin beds himself in. I know as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow that before the next election the knives and will be out and limbs will be missing as the frenzy sets in.

    The spectacle will be a far greater one than the considerably dull by comparison versions played out by the Libs at any time in the last decade (both in government and opposition).
    Last edited by Basil; 23-02-2008 at 06:09 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #24
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    There is absolutely no indication of that.

    .. yet one which was apparently supported by the vast majority of Australians.
    Which showed that the vast majority don't support compensation, which certainly explains KRudd's honeymoon since this combination is the most unjust of all. If we did wrong people the way the apology states, then those wronged who are still alive should be compensated.

    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    I don't imagine annoying the Unions is going to do them much harm.
    Depends on which unions, and the tendency for cross-actions that used to hamstring our country in the bad old days of Labor-Union domination.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    But whoever it was he, she or it was a nong, or even a ning-nong
    It has been attributed to Churchill, but likely apocryphal. It is ancient and non-Australian.

    And it was talking about normal people, not those Anointed who are insulated from the real world, such as ambulance chasers, bureaucrats, academics and journalists.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  11. #26
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    And it was talking about normal people, not those Anointed who are insulated from the real world, such as ambulance chasers, bureaucrats, academics and journalists.
    I would have teleported this to Classic Posts save for its political message which by definition would tickle funny bones on one side or t'other. Suffice to say - enjoyed it immensely.

    Gives me an idea for a thread ...
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  12. #27
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    Yes! I wanna see you upset your fellow lefties.
    Firstly, the bulk of the cuts may well occur as redundancies and there is still no guarantee that any forced redundancies will occur.

    That said (and my sympathies for anyone who loses a job they were performing competently), Centrelink is a bloated, overcomplicated bureaucracy and if job cuts result in a forced simplification of some of its more extraneous nonsense then this will probably be a good thing. It's a small step in the right direction, which would be phasing out every single Centrelink job and topping up the incomes of those who fall below a certain level by means of something along the lines of negative taxation.

  13. #28
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    That said (and my sympathies for anyone who loses a job they were performing competently), Centrelink is a bloated, overcomplicated bureaucracy
    That's for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    and if job cuts result in a forced simplification of some of its more extraneous nonsense then this will probably be a good thing.
    But it is likely that those most in need of assistance will suffer most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    It's a small step in the right direction, which would be phasing out every single Centrelink job and topping up the incomes of those who fall below a certain level by means of something along the lines of negative taxation.
    Definitely. And since Estonia and other former Communist Bloc countries are thriving under lower flat tax rates than the 30/30 LDP proposal, it's nonsensical for lefties to downplay this system because of unnamed budgetary concerns.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    1. An apology not representative and consultative of "all Australians"
    TBH all the recent carry-on about this seems pretty silly to me.
    2. Today's announcement that the government plans to cut 2,000 Centrelink jobs. The policy slammed by unions in its entirety and specifically by Public Sector Union as a broken pre-election promise
    Not sure about any backlash, but I whole-heartedly support reduction in CentreLink jobs. Have you ever been in there? They move slower than the speed of smell.
    meep meep

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    -- A man to govern "for all Australians"
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    and yet, less than 100 days into the Rudd-fest, we have

    1. An apology not representative and consultative of "all Australians"
    If governing "for all Australians" means only doing that which is agreed on by all, then clearly this is an untenable goal.

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