View Poll Results: Who will win? Tie for first decided by tiebreak for poll result

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Michael Adams

    0 0%
  • Viswanathan Anand

    3 25.00%
  • Levon Aronian

    1 8.33%
  • Magnus Carlsen

    1 8.33%
  • Pavel Eljanov

    0 0%
  • Boris Gelfand

    0 0%
  • Vassily Ivanchuk

    1 8.33%
  • Vladimir Kramnik

    1 8.33%
  • Peter Leko

    1 8.33%
  • Shakhryar Mamedyarov

    0 0%
  • Judit Polgar

    0 0%
  • Teimour Radjabov

    1 8.33%
  • Veselin Topalov

    3 25.00%
  • Loek van Wely

    0 0%
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Thread: 2008 Corus

  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Go Adams!

    Go Michael Adams! Michael's my middle name. I see he takes on the world champion next (who I agree is at ridiculously short odds - proved by him losing in Rd 1).
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

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  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono2
    Go Michael Adams!
    Don't encourage me!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=1FeIF-7fhkE
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Well...

    Well, Gunner, at least that's better than the video clips Axiom posts!
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  4. #34
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    Poll is closed already, but I'd vote for Anand. I think he will be the first one!
    By the way, I found excellent online broadcasting of the tournament here:
    www.chessok.com
    perhaps, it'll be useful information

  5. #35
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    As I expected Gelfand was wiped out by Topalov

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    and I was also not that surprised that Van Wely couldn't survive his position against Mamedyarov in time trouble. Radjabov also won, so now Carlsen, Aronian and Radjabov are plus-two, Kramnik and Polgar are plus-one and Gelfand is having a horrible tournament on 1/5. Adams, Leko and Ivanchuk are all +0=5-0!
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 18-01-2008 at 10:02 AM.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Black's 12th

    Thanks Kevin. What, though, was wrong with 12..Qxd6? Black seemed to get into big problems because of his doubled d pawns.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  7. #37
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono2
    Thanks Kevin. What, though, was wrong with 12..Qxd6? Black seemed to get into big problems because of his doubled d pawns.
    I think Bxh7 themes were about! The black queen had to protect g5 from the coming knight check (after Bxh7) and preventing subsequent return of the invested bishop.
    Last edited by Basil; 18-01-2008 at 12:52 PM.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  8. #38
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    good point!

    Good point, Gunner. Ta.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  9. #39
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Gunner is correct. 12...Qxd6 is refuted by 13.Bxh7+ winning a pawn.

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Suspect line

    So I think the whole line from 9...Bg4 is rather suspect for Black!?
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  11. #41
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono2
    So I think the whole line from 9...Bg4 is rather suspect for Black!?
    11...Bd6 is not forced for black by any means so I don't know about that.

    Marin's comment about the position on move 12 is as follows:

    Both players treated the Russian defence in original way. Double pawns are known to be weak, but also to control important groups of squares and leave files open for the major pieces. The weakness of the c3- and c2-pawns would be less relevant if the c-file would not be available for Black. In principle, the d5-pawn looks more exposed than the c3-pawn (even if for the simple reason that it is physically blocked; compare to White's possibility of playing a sacrificial c4 at some moment, provoking structural changes that could eventually offer him an initiative). On the other hand, the squares controled by the d5- and d6-pawns is more central, which can have an important influence over the outcome of the game. Anyway, it is not easy to give a final evaluation of the position, but both players had probably their own opinion about it. Topalov had had this structure before (against Bacrot, in Morelia 2006), with the only difference that the bishops were exchanged early in that game. He maintained some pressure until deep in the endgame, but the result was a draw.

    I don't trust black's doubled pawns. Topalov showed in the game that you can work around their control of central squares.

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    11...Bd6 is not forced for black by any means so I don't know about that.

    Marin's comment about the position on move 12 is as follows:

    Both players treated the Russian defence in original way. Double pawns are known to be weak, but also to control important groups of squares and leave files open for the major pieces. The weakness of the c3- and c2-pawns would be less relevant if the c-file would not be available for Black. In principle, the d5-pawn looks more exposed than the c3-pawn (even if for the simple reason that it is physically blocked; compare to White's possibility of playing a sacrificial c4 at some moment, provoking structural changes that could eventually offer him an initiative). On the other hand, the squares controled by the d5- and d6-pawns is more central, which can have an important influence over the outcome of the game. Anyway, it is not easy to give a final evaluation of the position, but both players had probably their own opinion about it. Topalov had had this structure before (against Bacrot, in Morelia 2006), with the only difference that the bishops were exchanged early in that game. He maintained some pressure until deep in the endgame, but the result was a draw.

    I don't trust black's doubled pawns. Topalov showed in the game that you can work around their control of central squares.
    Ta, KB. Interesting comments. For what its worth (not much, I'm only a 1636 player - today anyway) I would avoid 11...Bd6 and the consequent doubled d pawns if I was in this Pettroff line as Black. I have been known to play the occasional Pettroff/ Russian Defence....
    Last edited by Adamski; 18-01-2008 at 05:01 PM.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  13. #43
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Only the fact that he dragged it out to move 110 precludes me from saying that Aronian was beaten like a womble last night.

    On move 22 Aronian was the first to start thinking, although the game was actually still following a Radjabov-Anand game (won by Anand) from last year. When the game finally stopped following that one with Kramnik's 25.Nc3, Aronian was already forty minutes behind on the clock.

    Kramnik continued to be apparently in preparation for another four or five moves, or else he was playing strong moves very quickly, and at move 31 he had about an hour and 40 minutes while Aronian had less than ten.

    Kramnik-Aronian

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    Carlsen beat Polgar and Topalov beat Leko with Black so we now have

    +3 Carlsen
    +2 Kramnik, Radjabov
    +1 Aronian
    =0 Adams, Van Wely, Mamedyarov, Ivanchuk, Polgar, Topalov
    -1 Anand, Leko
    -3 Gelfand, Eljanov

  14. #44
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    According to Marin, Aronian actually had a technical tablebase draw for much of the ending against Kramnik and only became lost from move 103, which given that it is the tricky f and h pawn ending (where the defender often draws with absolutely perfect play) does not surprise me greatly.

    Aronian bounced back yesterday, beating Radjabov to swap places with him, while Anand beat Polgar, also swapping places.

  15. #45
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    According to Marin, Aronian actually had a technical tablebase draw for much of the ending against Kramnik and only became lost from move 103, which given that it is the tricky f and h pawn ending (where the defender often draws with absolutely perfect play) does not surprise me greatly.
    Some very helpful comments by Marin. My own longest tournament game was having to defend this type of endgame. But back then we had adjournments to refresh our knowledge of the drawing technique Kramnik played a new plan, and Aronian went wrong.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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