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  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master DanielBell's Avatar
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    Im so glad SOMEONE wants to look after me!!! :)

    http://www.australianit.news.com.au/...-15306,00.html

    Cool! Now I won't be exposed to information that could offend me! And when I have kids I don't have to be a parent!!!!!!

    Thanks for making my life so much more safe & easy!!!!
    All Blacks for the Rugby World Cup 2011!

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  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBell
    http://www.australianit.news.com.au/...-15306,00.html

    Cool! Now I won't be exposed to information that could offend me! And when I have kids I don't have to be a parent!!!!!!

    Thanks for making my life so much more safe & easy!!!!
    Well, we'll get more like NZ under Helen "Nanny" Clark if KRudd and his lot win. He already plans on still more government bureaucracies, aka "In Big Government We Trust".
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    aka "In Big Government We Trust".
    aka "bloated, resource-bleeding Government" that Leftys specialise in. Now that's a Groundhog moment.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Well, we'll get more like NZ under Helen "Nanny" Clark if KRudd and his lot win. He already plans on still more government bureaucracies, aka "In Big Government We Trust".
    I'd be interested in any empirical evidence that bureaucracy under Howard has declined - I suspect it actually hasn't. In my view Howard is every bit as much a "big government" man as Rudd, the difference being only the policy skew.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I'd be interested in any empirical evidence that bureaucracy under Howard has declined - I suspect it actually hasn't. In my view Howard is every bit as much a "big government" man as Rudd, the difference being only the policy skew.
    I don't have any evidence at my fingertips (although I did think that Howard had chopped much civil service in his first tenure - the onus is on me to check as I have added my two cents), but may I enquire as to your take on:
    a) the very concept of big govt, and
    b) would it make any difference to you if it could be demonstrated that Howard had reduced bureaucracy at federal level

    * Notes that the very subject is highly subjective and sizing up or down could be argued as either 'mean' or 'bloated' depending on one's proclivities.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I'd be interested in any empirical evidence that bureaucracy under Howard has declined - I suspect it actually hasn't. In my view Howard is every bit as much a "big government" man as Rudd, the difference being only the policy skew.
    I do know that Rudd wants even more bureaucracies. Sad to say, even many Libs once they become part of government they become more prone to the idea that more government is the solution rather than the problem. I am disappointed that the Coalition didn't de-fund the ABC and the boards that dole out our dollars to so-called "art" that people wouldn't pay to watch, and also get rid of the absurd ACCC with its discredited anti-trust policies.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    I don't have any evidence at my fingertips (although I did think that Howard had chopped much civil service in his first tenure -
    Yes, I vaguely recall the distant activities of Max the Axe and so on, but right-leaning governments are expected to do this sort of thing at the start of their tenures; the question being - has it crept back?

    but may I enquire as to your take on:
    a) the very concept of big govt,
    Generally against it and preferring moderately small government. For instance my proposed restructure of the welfare net , while increasing the cost of providing the welfare net itself, both reduces the size of the welfare bureaucracy and permits massive cuts in other areas of regulation (and hence, no doubt, in their regulators!)

    and
    b) would it make any difference to you if it could be demonstrated that Howard had reduced bureaucracy at federal level
    No difference to my vote but a difference to my public comments.

    You may have noticed, for instance, that I correctly represent Howard as being not the Hayekite that Rudd paints him as, even though I am quite aware that in that case having the truth pointed out may advantage Howard.

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    ... but right-leaning governments are expected to do this sort of thing at the start of their tenures;...
    Expected of themselves. It's called cutting the bloated, inefficient and bankrupting fat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    the question being - has it crept back?
    I don't know. My guess is 'no'. I think it's a fair and good question to ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    No difference to my vote but a difference to my public comments.
    More than fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    You may have noticed, for instance, that I correctly represent Howard as being not the Hayekite that Rudd paints him as, even though I am quite aware that in that case having the truth pointed out may advantage Howard.
    And you may have noticed that while I don't care for (all) of your political beliefs, I have stated more than once my respect for your (general) commentary.
    There is no cure for leftism. Its infestation of the host mostly diminishes with age except in the most rabid of specimens.

  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    left hand puppet v right hand puppet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    I do know that Rudd wants even more bureaucracies. Sad to say, even many Libs once they become part of government they become more prone to the idea that more government is the solution rather than the problem. I am disappointed that the Coalition didn't de-fund the ABC and the boards that dole out our dollars to so-called "art" that people wouldn't pay to watch, and also get rid of the absurd ACCC with its discredited anti-trust policies.
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin bonham
    I'd be interested in any empirical evidence that bureaucracy under Howard has declined - I suspect it actually hasn't. In my view Howard is every bit as much a "big government" man as Rudd, the difference being only the policy skew.
    i couldnt agree more.
    i am totally livid with the brainwashed left-gatekeepers and their big government nanny state mentality
    but to say that the supposed other side of government is really any less commited to this sickening ideology is either dangerously ill informed or dangerously naive, or both.
    Last edited by Axiom; 26-09-2007 at 10:30 PM.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    i couldnt agree more.
    i am totally livid with the brainwashed left-gatekeepers and their big government nanny state mentality
    but to say that the supposed other side of government is really any less commited to this sickening ideology is either dangerously ill informed or dangerously naive, or both.
    True enough. The same was true of the American Republicans, who were as big spending as the Dems. Conservatives were so disgusted that the GOP lost Congress.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Generally against it and preferring moderately small government. For instance my proposed restructure of the welfare net , while increasing the cost of providing the welfare net itself, both reduces the size of the welfare bureaucracy and permits massive cuts in other areas of regulation (and hence, no doubt, in their regulators!)
    Sounds like reasonable pragmatism, if it could work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    No difference to my vote but a difference to my public comments.
    Why no difference? Do you really think that Rudd will be better for you or the country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    You may have noticed, for instance, that I correctly represent Howard as being not the Hayekite that Rudd paints him as, even though I am quite aware that in that case having the truth pointed out may advantage Howard.
    While Rudd didn't know the difference between Hayek and Rand. And can Howard put into practice much Hayekism as long as the Nats are protectionist agrarian socialists?
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #12
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Why no difference?
    Centrelink. The way Howard's government has treated the unemployed, in a period of supposed prosperity when there was no need at all to be so harsh, alone justifies its eviction from office in my view irrespective of whether the alternative will actually make a difference and irrespective of all other issues. Barring massive reform on that particular issue, I won't be preferencing the Libs ahead of Labor anywhere that it counts. (As noted before, I live in an ultra-safe Labor seat so I might do anything in the Reps.)

    Do you really think that Rudd will be better for you or the country?
    Voting for me is based on excluding those I dislike rather than positive enthusiasm. It is rare for me to have especially positive feelings about any party or leader.

    I do believe Rudd will be a better leader in some ways, because I expect him to be slightly less politically religious/moralistic, and also I think he will make a more effective and influential leader for Australia on the world stage.

    While Rudd didn't know the difference between Hayek and Rand. And can Howard put into practice much Hayekism as long as the Nats are protectionist agrarian socialists?
    Well, Howard isn't a Randroid either.

    The Nationals' tendencies are confined to a particular range of issues dear to their voter base. Howard has had plenty of opportunity to be a small taxer aside from that and I haven't really seen him showing it.

  13. #13
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    True enough. The same was true of the American Republicans, who were as big spending as the Dems. Conservatives were so disgusted that the GOP lost Congress.
    Was that the main cause or was disgust over the Iraq war more to do with it?

  14. #14
    CC Candidate Master DanielBell's Avatar
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    You don't really have a 2 party system here in Australia, slowly the representative of the right (liberal) and left (labor) are coming closer and closer..

    Liberals won't get rid of socialised health care/education/welfare etc because they will lose votes, Labor won't properly socialise the economy because they'll lose votes.

    If I were a Liberal or Labor supporter I'd feel ripped off no matter who I voted for.
    All Blacks for the Rugby World Cup 2011!

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  15. #15
    CC Candidate Master DanielBell's Avatar
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    Cool, went to do my tax today, gotta pay 1% medicare levy, I chose criminal life. I joined the no-tax-return club!

    I gotta pay cash for my own healthcare, can't afford to pay for someone else's.

    Accountant tells me if I join a private health fund I'll get a return. So basically if I pay like $1500 a year they'll give me the $500 they should be giving me anyway and call it a 'rebate'. Dirty bloody mongrols.

    I think it's only fair that if we have universal health care then we make it law that every person must attend a gym at least 4 times a week and the government must mandate a diet. Smoking and alcohol must be banned along with other drugs. In fact any behavior which might cause you to use the system more than another should be banned. Of course if you're in a private fund these restrictions wouldn't apply to you.

    Basically this way the system wouldn't cost so much to run and the people like myself who don't even use it wouldn't need to pay so much for it!

    Universal healthcare is something I would not contribute to even if it were made voluntary, people do not look after thier health, and expect others to foot the bill. Socialists call me selfish, I call you selfish! I am overweight! I just ate 2 sausage rolls! But I pay my own bloody MEDICAL!!!!

    Ok im over it now.

    I gotta look into a private fund though... Anyone wanna plug one? Is that against forum policy????
    Last edited by DanielBell; 27-09-2007 at 10:10 AM. Reason: i wrote a bad word.. just removed it
    All Blacks for the Rugby World Cup 2011!

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