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  1. #46
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    where is this universal law that states - if you are born a human, you must work?
    There isn't one. But there is also no universal law that states that if you absolutely refuse to work at all, other people have to feed you.

    is it not just a giant slave plantation, only with better conditions?
    ie. slaves are provided food/shelter etc in exchange for their labour.
    Exactly. Exchange. Commercial transaction between willing parties is not slavery.

  2. #47
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    There isn't one. But there is also no universal law that states that if you absolutely refuse to work at all, other people have to feed you.
    CORRECT, i should have said i am not anti-enterprise,just anti-slavery(ie forced to work)
    by work i am referring to your typical f/t positions , 30-60k/yr approx.
    but its not wage specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Exactly. Exchange. Commercial transaction between willing parties is not slavery.
    this is the crunch!
    is the worker really free to transact an equitable exchange?
    does the force not come from the need for food/shelter etc?

    on the old cotton fields of Alabama, slaves fled the plantations for freedom
    only for an oft harsher and more dangerous life in the hills......but what price freedom? ....... a hot shower,do i hear you say?

    my belief is that the country can easily afford to house and feed the very few that for whatever reason refuse to work. the argument that this will start a snowball effect i believe to be false. the overwhelming majority of people buy the system and will always strive to achieve greater material wealth within it.
    its like the argument,that if you legalise drugs the use goes up significantly(see here for decrease in cannabis use in uk post decriminalisation)
    if you sanction conscientious work objectors, by not forcing them to jump through hoops,i believe there will likewise not be a clamour to join the simple life
    Last edited by Axiom; 08-08-2007 at 06:17 PM.

  3. #48
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    does the force not come from the need for food/shelter etc?
    The employer did not cause this need!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    if you sanction conscientious work objectors, by not forcing them to jump through hoops,
    What about conscientious refuse-to-feed-outright-bludgers objectors?
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  4. #49
    CC Candidate Master DanielBell's Avatar
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    Lazy people don't deserve the charity that is stolen from me every Wednesday. I work bloody hard for it.
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  5. #50
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBell
    Lazy people don't deserve the charity that is stolen from me every Wednesday. I work bloody hard for it.
    They wouldn't deserve it even if you did not work bloody hard.
    For private coaching (IM, four times VIC champion) call or SMS 0417519733
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  6. #51
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    easier to look downwards than upwards for corruption

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    The employer did not cause this need!

    no,they are just higher order slaves trying to employ lower order ones.
    part of the same system,which fosters and nurtures this need,in order to maintain control over it's human resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    What about conscientious refuse-to-feed-outright-bludgers objectors?
    fine , as long as you are just as likely to tilt your head upwards towards high level corruption and non-payment of taxes as you are to look downwards to kick the unwilling slave.

    this is the same dynamic as the cotton fields...... fellow slaves are stricter controllers of other slaves than the owners.
    deep down in most people there is the uncomfortable feeling that they have been co-opted into a role that uses them,and to think that others have the temerity to opt out of the chains,causes the reaction- "look if im going to be a slave, you sure as hell have to be too." and " oh nooo, my attention is not on the slave-owners and what they do, oh noooo, im just right on the case of the unwilling slave" !

  7. #52
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    mind controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBell
    Lazy people don't deserve the charity that is stolen from me every Wednesday. I work bloody hard for it.
    whats worse, being a slave , or knowing that slaves are opting out of the plantation?
    and do you know where all your taxes go? and you trust your govt to use your taxes responsibly? or is it just easier to attack the bottom rung on the heirarchy?

  8. #53
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    They wouldn't deserve it even if you did not work bloody hard.
    yes so its better to have these unwilling slaves on the streets commiting crimes, creating ghettos? or just sweep them all up into forced labour camps?(where the veneer of non-slavery is stripped away!)

  9. #54
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    References

    For those interested in this perspective:

    http://www.new-enlightenment.com/new_slavery.htm

    Kevin Bales, Disposable People: New Slavery in the Global Economy, 1999

    http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html




    "The debt and work cycle is an ingenious tool of subjugation. Make people think they need all these things, then they must have a job, and they give up control of their lives. It's as simple as that. We live in one of the most free countries in the world, but we fix it so we are not free at all. "
    - Larry Roth

    "Capitalism only supports certain kinds of groups, the nuclear family for example, or 'the people I know at my job', because such groups are already self-alienated & hooked into the Work/Consume/Die structure."
    - Hakim Bey

    "Supposing we suddenly imagine a world in which nearly everybody is doing what they want. Then we don't need to be paid in order to work and the whole issue of how money circulates, how we get things done, suddenly alters."
    - Robert Theobald

    "When survival or mere subsistence is at stake, a society can focus only on the overwhelming needs of the moment, and questions of meaningful work and leisure are considered purely academic. But we believe that the world has enough wealth to move all of humanity above survival and subsistence."
    - Alfonso Montuori & Isabella Conti, From Power to Partnership: Creating the Future of Love, Work, and Community

  10. #55
    CC Candidate Master Ged's Avatar
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    when did people forget that life is a violent struggle? (rhetorical)

  11. #56
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    no,they are just higher order slaves trying to employ lower order ones.
    Not at all. Employers and employees do not have to work at these particular job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    fine , as long as you are just as likely to tilt your head upwards towards high level corruption and non-payment of taxes
    There is more incentive for that if taxes are too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom
    as you are to look downwards to kick the unwilling slave.
    No one is forced to work for a particular employer. But if I have to feed bludgers, then I am the one enslaved to them!
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  12. #57
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Not at all. Employers and employees do not have to work at these particular job.
    open to debate, this degree of "have to"


    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    There is more incentive for that if taxes are too high.
    irrelevant! i spoke of corruption and tax evasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    No one is forced to work for a particular employer. But if I have to feed bludgers, then I am the one enslaved to them!
    employers ,again, are just higher order slaves, the choices are trivial.
    again you prefer the easy option of tilting your head downwards to condemn those below you on the prescribed work/slave heirarchy, rather than those above you.....many redirect their own frustration at being enslaved by attacking those that blow the whistle.
    i refer to this as "collective cowardess" in the face of mass indoctrination.

  13. #58
    Account Permanently Banned Axiom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged
    when did people forget that life is a violent struggle? (rhetorical)
    who told you that?(that life is a violent struggle)
    nature? if so, then a faulty analogy,based on our ability for self-reflection.
    the controlling elite? if so, you are a brainwashed slave!
    when did people forget that humanity strives for freedom and justice !!
    Last edited by Axiom; 09-08-2007 at 07:11 PM.

  14. #59
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner Duggan
    I've met 30 lifer lefties on this board.
    Do you count me in that?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  15. #60
    CC FIDE Master
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    Axiom, who are the slave owners?
    Dyslexics of the world untie

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