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  1. #4351
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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  2. #4352
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    Because some people do understand the election should be about economic growth rather than climate change!
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  3. #4353
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Because some people do understand the election should be about economic growth rather than climate change!
    Global warming is going to have a severe negative impact on economic growth, unless we do something about it.

  4. #4354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Global warming is going to have a severe negative impact on economic growth, unless we do something about it.
    Close our 6 coal mines... and it stops
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  5. #4355
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Close our 6 coal mines... and it stops
    what people fail to realise is that by closing our coal mines, which implement the highest clean coal production technologies
    will simply not result to coal production in the whole planet.
    Our coal importers will simply resort to other markets to satisfy their needs.
    I wonder if they have ever thought of how many times more harmful is the coal produced
    in Indonesia's Kalimantan (Borneo) compared to that of Australia's?
    And guess who's making huge profits out of this unclean and dangerous product?
    Non other than the UK!!!
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  6. #4356
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    what people fail to realise is that by closing our coal mines, which implement the highest clean coal production technologies
    will simply not result to coal production in the whole planet.
    Our coal importers will simply resort to other markets to satisfy their needs.
    I wonder if they have ever thought of how many times more harmful is the coal produced
    in Indonesia's Kalimantan (Borneo) compared to that of Australia's?
    And guess who
    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    's making huge profits out of this unclean and dangerous product?
    Non other than the UK!!!
    That is why international co-ordination of policy is necessary, maybe done by a body such as the United Nations. Rudd and Turnbull (and Thatcher and G Bush 1) had principles and leadership that is lacking in many leaders
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  7. #4357
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    what people fail to realise is that by closing our coal mines, which implement the highest clean coal production technologies will simply not result to coal production in the whole planet.
    It's not the production techniques, it's how the coal is burnt that's important.

  8. #4358
    CC Candidate Master Blunderbuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    And guess who's making huge profits out of this unclean and dangerous product?
    Non other than the UK!!!
    What is your source for this statement? Carbon Brief provided a different view : Analysis UK CO2 emissions fell for record sixth consecutive year in 2018

    Notably, coal CO2 emissions now make up just 7% of the UK total. This small share will shrink even further as coal-fired power stations continue to close ahead of a 2025 phaseout deadline. Only 5% of UK electricity generation in 2018 was from coal, a record low.

  9. #4359
    CC Candidate Master Blunderbuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    It's not the production techniques, it's how the coal is burnt that's important.
    Well it highlights exactly what does the term ‘clean coal’ mean? Maybe ER is simply saying our stuff is better because we wash it at the mine

    As you say others use it to suggest you can burn coal cleanly at the power plant. Either with Carbon Storage and Capture (no viable example of this working anywhere - yet).

    Or gasification, effectively pre-processing (pulverizing) the coal at the power plant so you can burn it far more efficiently as a gas. While this does work, in the sense that the coal is burnt far more efficiently than in a traditional power plant. It hardly makes it ‘clean’. And the obvious question when considering new investment would be - why not just use gas as a transition fuel instead of coal in the first place. As has already happened in the UK – see post #347 here Federal Election 2019 page24

  10. #4360
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blunderbuss View Post
    What is your source for this statement?
    To avoid pro coal mining bias I have avoided / stopped using "coal friendly" publications long time ago.
    My main sources these days are mainly news/articles from ABC and The Guardian!

    For the particular topic my source was

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...fits-indonesia

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom
    It's not the production techniques, it's how the coal is burnt that's important.
    The source above rises the horrific effect of coal production on the environment. Kalimantan is a sad example.
    In Australia we don't face such a problem because

    "In the desert you can remember your name,
    'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain"
    Last edited by ER; 20-05-2019 at 08:12 PM.
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  11. #4361
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    To avoid pro coal mining bias I have avoided / stopped using "coal friendly" publications long time ago.
    My main sources these days are mainly news/articles from ABC and The Guardian!

    For the particular topic my source was

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...fits-indonesia
    I would say that the central message of that article is that the benefits of mining in that case flow not to the locals (hello Queensland) but to the overseas operator (hi Adani).
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  12. #4362
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    I would say that the central message of that article is that the benefits of mining in that case flow not to the locals (hello Queensland) but to the overseas operator (hi Adani).
    you would also say that the article is mainly about the monumental environmental damage to the people of Kalimantan caused by the obliteration of their land.
    you would also consider the fact that the locals, including the natives. welcomed the (hello Adani) mob while they kicked out of town the (piss off Bob Brown)
    greenie rabble! I also mentioned the UK profiteering which actually is the main heading of the article!
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  13. #4363
    CC Candidate Master Blunderbuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    I also mentioned the UK profiteering which actually is the main heading of the article!
    Good on you reading the Guardian ER. I’m sure you’ll approve of their recent style guide changes: The Guardian is changing the language it uses about the environment

    As for the 'UK profiteering' the article lists five UK banks that invest in companies such as BHP Billiton (listed on the London stock exchange - but headquarters in Oz). The article is dated from 2013 so I thought it would be interesting to see if any of the banks have cleaned up their act since then. And it seems Standard Chartered at least have: Banks and Coal

    At full production, the proposed Galilee Basin projects would double Australia’s coal exports to over 600 million tonnes a year. If the greenhouse gas emissions resulting from the burning of Galilee Basin coal were compared to fossil fuel emissions from other countries, the Galilee Basin would rank as the world’s seventh biggest contributor of CO2 pollution. The development of the Galilee Basin is the driver for the proposed expansion of coal ports along the Great Barrier Reef coast, which is causing international concern.

    A global coalition of NGOs has been opposing these projects for years, and has targeted international banks involved or that could get involved in these dodgy deals, resulting in the withdrawal of Société Générale from the Alpha Coal project, the withdrawal of Commonwealth Bank and Standard Chartered from the Carmichael project, as well as commitments from 21 major banks – as of June 2017 – not to get involved in the financing of the Abbot Point coal export terminal, the Carmichael project, any Galilee basin project, or in fact any new coal mine project globally.

  14. #4364
    CC Candidate Master Blunderbuss's Avatar
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    Also interesting that Guardian Australia only launched in 2013 so maybe that explains the UK headline (for the UK audience). Banks investing in coal mining is a global problem. That said some UK banks do seem particularly bad - I'm looking at you Barclays the bank I started out with many years ago when my Dad opened me an account at the local branch because he said he knew the manager and he was a 'good bloke'. How times have changed
    Last edited by Blunderbuss; 22-05-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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  15. #4365
    CC Candidate Master Blunderbuss's Avatar
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    While looking for evidence that we have known about climate change for decades (not just the last ten years). I remembered Mayer Hillman a proponent of personal carbon trading.

    I have a book he wrote somewhere at home: How We Can Save the Planet

    It now looks like he thinks we can’t Mayer Hillman on the climate reality

    Hillman accuses all kinds of leaders – from religious leaders to scientists to politicians – of failing to honestly discuss what we must do to move to zero-carbon emissions. “I don’t think they can because society isn’t organised to enable them to do so. Political parties’ focus is on jobs and GDP, depending on the burning of fossil fuels.”

    Without hope, goes the truism, we will give up. And yet optimism about the future is wishful thinking, says Hillman. He believes that accepting that our civilisation is doomed could make humanity rather like an individual who recognises he is terminally ill. Such people rarely go on a disastrous binge; instead, they do all they can to prolong their lives.

    Can civilisation prolong its life until the end of this century? “It depends on what we are prepared to do.” He fears it will be a long time before we take proportionate action to stop climatic calamity. “Standing in the way is capitalism. Can you imagine the global airline industry being dismantled when hundreds of new runways are being built right now all over the world? It’s almost as if we’re deliberately attempting to defy nature. We’re doing the reverse of what we should be doing, with everybody’s silent acquiescence, and nobody’s batting an eyelid.”
    "I am not saying they love each other. Oh, no. Football is not a matter of life and death … it’s much more important than that." - Bill Shankly

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