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  1. #5881
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Ok, but people/small businesses are still unlikely to build a ''windmill'' . Or else, lets build .
    Rooftop solar is more practical - there are now more than 2.2 million residential installations (at Sep 2019) plus many thousands of commercial installations (74000 up till 2018).

  2. #5882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Rooftop solar is more practical - there are now more than 2.2 million residential installations (at Sep 2019) plus many thousands of commercial installations (74000 up till 2018).
    Good. I am all for economic solutions!
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  3. #5883
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Good. I am all for economic solutions!
    I wouldn't be jumping with glee on my way to install or to invest in them!

    https://saregionalsolar.com.au/2019/...-in-australia/

    For a rather balanced view of pros and cons this is also worth a look.

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/...lar-australia/
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  4. #5884
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    I wouldn't be jumping with glee on my way to install or to invest in them!

    https://saregionalsolar.com.au/2019/...-in-australia/

    For a rather balanced view of pros and cons this is also worth a look.

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/...lar-australia/
    This is exactly my point. Let people make educated choices and if those who support the ''eco-solutions'' are able to make better sales - off they go!
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  5. #5885
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    They did not stop the blackouts. As I've pointed out previously - nothing stops people generating energy by other means at cheaper prices.
    Actually they do, if you install rooftop solar in your home. And you're ignoring the enormous government subsidies for coal-fired power.

  6. #5886
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This is exactly my point. Let people make educated choices and if those who support the ''eco-solutions'' are able to make better sales - off they go!
    Unfortunately the price of coal power doesn't yet include its externalities.

  7. #5887
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Actually they do, if you install rooftop solar in your home.
    In Georgia where I live, an online estimate of rooftop solar installation in my house is $47,325, up-front incentives and rebates $12,305, net cost $35,021, Pay-back time (assuming cash purchase) 13 Years 11 Months. Not feasible for me, even though Total Cost of Utility Power Avoided over 25 years is $75,197.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  8. #5888
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This is exactly my point. Let people make educated choices and if those who support the ''eco-solutions'' are able to make better sales - off they go!
    That's the right idea.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  9. #5889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    In Georgia where I live, an online estimate of rooftop solar installation in my house is $47,325, up-front incentives and rebates $12,305, net cost $35,021, Pay-back time (assuming cash purchase) 13 Years 11 Months. Not feasible for me, even though Total Cost of Utility Power Avoided over 25 years is $75,197.
    So you'll continue to rely on the government for power? What happened to your free-market principles?

  10. #5890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    If van Wijngaarden is basing his arguments on this work, which he seems to be doing, then there are a lot of problems with his arguments. ...
    He also seems to be ignoring ocean heat content (I've corrected the link), which is a problem:
    The heat in the world’s oceans reached a new record level in 2019, showing “irrefutable and accelerating” heating of the planet. The world’s oceans are the clearest measure of the climate emergency because they absorb more than 90% of the heat trapped by the greenhouse gases emitted by fossil fuel burning, forest destruction and other human activities. The new analysis shows the past five years are the top five warmest years recorded in the ocean and the past 10 years are also the top 10 years on record. The amount of heat being added to the oceans is equivalent to every person on the planet running 100 microwave ovens all day and all night.

  11. #5891
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So you'll continue to rely on the government for power? What happened to your free-market principles?
    The power infrastructure was there long before I got there. Free market advocacy doesn't require martyrdom. In any case, I pay for my power.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  12. #5892
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    The power infrastructure was there long before I got there. Free market advocacy doesn't require martyrdom. In any case, I pay for my power.
    You don't pay the true market price, since the fossil fuel industry is subsidised to the tune of trillions of dollars.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  13. #5893
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    In Georgia where I live, an online estimate of rooftop solar installation in my house is $47,325, up-front incentives and rebates $12,305, net cost $35,021, Pay-back time (assuming cash purchase) 13 Years 11 Months. Not feasible for me, even though Total Cost of Utility Power Avoided over 25 years is $75,197.
    Very pricey. A 5 kW system here costs $4-8K (ignoring the el cheapo options), break-even after 4-5 years. Adding a battery is an option gaining popularity.

  14. #5894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Very pricey. A 5 kW system here costs $4-8K (ignoring the el cheapo options), break-even after 4-5 years. Adding a battery is an option gaining popularity.
    According to this site, they're only slightly more expensive in Georgia. I'm not sure where Capablanca-Fan gets his numbers from.

  15. #5895
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Very pricey. A 5 kW system here costs $4-8K (ignoring the el cheapo options), break-even after 4-5 years. Adding a battery is an option gaining popularity.
    I would probably install solar panels for that. And well you should ignore the el cheapo options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    According to this site, they're only slightly more expensive in Georgia. I'm not sure where Capablanca-Fan gets his numbers from.
    I did use a site that did the calculations even for my specific house (it had photos of the roof). The site above has no data for my county or city.

    Edit: a quote came in, and I see the problem: this is for a 15.8 kW system. I might have overestimated current energy use. I doubt that I would need more than 5–6 kW.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 15-01-2020 at 07:15 AM.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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