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  1. #61
    CC FIDE Master Jesper Norgaard's Avatar
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    Harika Dronavalli just had to mate with knight+bishop against Tan Zhongyi to survive for the tiebreak, since Tan had won the first classical game. She did wobble a lot and only managed to get potential mate on move 163 (Tan resigned on move 162), when Tan would be able to claim a draw on move 167! Apparently she did not know the W-maneuver with the knight via b3-d4-b5-d6-b7 but had a less efficient maneuver involving Bg6.

    Harika, Dronavalli vs Tan, Zhongyi

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    One remarkable thing is that after 56.Be4!,f5 she did not see the mate after the simple 57.Qe7+,Kxc8 58.Bd3 followed by Ba6(+) and Qb7# checkmate.

    One thing I always wondered about the Deletang triangle, it will still not avoid that the opposing King can run back to the wrong corner and stay there, from which only the W-maneuver will work to extract it?
    Last edited by Jesper Norgaard; 25-02-2017 at 04:31 AM.
    Chess well played is imagination, calculation, observation, experience and memorization in order of importance.

  2. #62
    CC FIDE Master Jesper Norgaard's Avatar
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    Chess well played is imagination, calculation, observation, experience and memorization in order of importance.

  3. #63
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesper Norgaard View Post
    Harika Dronavalli just had to mate with knight+bishop against Tan Zhongyi to survive for the tiebreak, since Tan had won the first classical game. She did wobble a lot and only managed to get potential mate on move 163 (Tan resigned on move 162), when Tan would be able to claim a draw on move 167! Apparently she did not know the W-maneuver with the knight via b3-d4-b5-d6-b7 but had a less efficient maneuver involving Bg6.

    Harika, Dronavalli vs Tan, Zhongyi

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    One remarkable thing is that after 56.Be4!,f5 she did not see the mate after the simple 57.Qe7+,Kxc8 58.Bd3 followed by Ba6(+) and Qb7# checkmate.
    True! I guess she might have settled down for the grind a P ahead and didn't consider a sac to mate quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesper Norgaard View Post
    One thing I always wondered about the Deletang triangle, it will still not avoid that the opposing King can run back to the wrong corner and stay there, from which only the W-maneuver will work to extract it?
    I think you are supposed to form the triangle around the enemy K and the right corner, and it seems possible to keep him there.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  4. #64
    CC FIDE Master Jesper Norgaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    I think you are supposed to form the triangle around the enemy K and the right corner, and it seems possible to keep him there.
    That is true in many starting positions. It wasn't in Harika's game, and if the king actually occupies one of the wrong corner squares, Deletang will not help at all!? Which means you need to learn the W-maneuver as well as Deletang. That may be fine since Deletang is general-purpose and will be possible in 70-80% of starting positions. But if you refuse to learn the W-maneuver, you will be in for a shock in 20-30% of the starting positions if the opponent plays to stay in the wrong corner no matter what.
    Chess well played is imagination, calculation, observation, experience and memorization in order of importance.

  5. #65
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    I really liked the way it was explained here, it's for kids, so it's step by step, so that is always a good thing when one likes to go slow and careful about it
    Currently playing on http://lichess.org and trying out 1.d4 thanks to my fave youtuber via Chessable

  6. #66
    CC International Master ElevatorEscapee's Avatar
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    ^^ Umm, that link seems to go to a two bishops forcing mate explanation, which is a much more simple task.

    Do you have a link with the Bishop and Knight checkmate?
    "On my chess set, all the pawns are Hamburglers" ~ Homer Simpson.

  7. #67
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    I think it's useful to know both Deletang and W. I teach my students the W method for two reasons:

    1. It's easier.
    2. I did not know Deletang method until seeing this thread
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Many players never meet this, but it's worth knowing, because it could happen next game! Wikipedia, for a change, doesn't do a bad job of explaining it, similar to some of my training positions for the Logan CC Study Group.

    I had to face it this year, and succeeded. Strangely enough, at an Olympiad in 1988, I was preparing to face it against Martin del Campo, but this was in the bad old days of adjournments, and my opponent resigned rather than having to return later.

    Some previous games include:

    For some reason I think that Kasparov would play where Morphy did not, he always seem like more agressive player.
    But I love all this read, this is one play, even though one of the most often, that I play so rarely because I can't find myself in it at all. I find it fascinating where you cannot force them, like shown on wiki.
    Currently playing on http://lichess.org and trying out 1.d4 thanks to my fave youtuber via Chessable

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Realy good video for KBN vs K mate

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Another illustration of the Deletang triangles method, which seems preferable to learn:

    I just watched this (now old) video and it is awesome! Highly recommended for anyone who does not already know a method to mate with KBN vs K.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
    I just watched this (now old) video and it is awesome! Highly recommended for anyone who does not already know a method to mate with KBN vs K.
    Yep, quite instructive. I discovered that in blitz a student of mine even struggled to mate with 2Bs (got it done eventually). Always good, to work through the basics!
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  11. #71
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    Former Australian champion Max Fuller once told me he could do this mate with one minute on the clock.

    There is a way of doing it when playing Kriegspiel, i.e. not knowing where the King is except by guessing when you check. It was covered in an old Chess In Australia article. Maybe its to Deletang method?

    There are many endings you are more likely to get. e.g. Q v R, which are worth knowing.
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