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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Bishop and knight checkmate

    Many players never meet this, but it's worth knowing, because it could happen next game! Wikipedia, for a change, doesn't do a bad job of explaining it, similar to some of my training positions for the Logan CC Study Group.

    I had to face it this year, and succeeded. Strangely enough, at an Olympiad in 1988, I was preparing to face it against Martin del Campo, but this was in the bad old days of adjournments, and my opponent resigned rather than having to return later.

    Some previous games include:

    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 23-06-2007 at 02:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    I can't remember having to do this. Not in a comp game anyway.

    Though I did spend some time studying it when going through Muller and Lamprecht's book. They emphasis the final manouvering of the King from the corner of one colour to the other and the 'W' shape the knight manouver in particular.

    Not sure if I could remember how to do it in 50 moves OTB anymore. I prefer to try to not get into pawnless endings instead. At least in endings when I am up materially.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I was priveleged to witness this in person.

    [Event "AUS-ch"]
    [Site "Melbourne"]
    [Date "2001.12.28"]
    [Round "1.13"]
    [White "Feldman, Vladimir"]
    [Black "Wright, Ian"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [ECO "E43"]
    [WhiteElo "2346"]
    [BlackElo "2131"]
    [PlyCount "160"]
    [EventDate "2001.12.??"]

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    I've never personally had to win it and due to its scarcity learning it has never been high on my list of priorities - I am working on it every now and then when I have a few moments and hope to get it learned perfectly eventually.

    I did however get a draw in a rapid game I was losing by playing into it hoping (correctly) that my opponent did not know how to win it.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    I was priveleged to witness this in person.

    [Event "AUS-ch"]
    [Site "Melbourne"]
    [Date "2001.12.28"]
    [Round "1.13"]
    [White "Feldman, Vladimir"]
    [Black "Wright, Ian"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [ECO "E43"]
    [WhiteElo "2346"]
    [BlackElo "2131"]
    [PlyCount "160"]
    [EventDate "2001.12.??"]

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    Black made it look easy; well done.

  5. #5
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Wright's ACF rating was below 2000 at the time. To watch a guy of around my own rating convert that so smoothly against an IM (who probably would have thought himself a chance of getting away with a draw) was quite impressive.

    Former Tasmanian champion Julian Steward once reached a K+2P vs K ending against a sub-1000 strength junior in a rated tournament game. He knighted one pawn, bishoped the other and demonstrated the mate.

  6. #6
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,

    Have only had to do this once in a tournament game also. Game is a bit scrappy, and I wasted a couple of tempi, but managed to do the mate pretty much by the book.


    Date: 2004
    White: Another
    Black: Macavity
    Result: 0-1
    ECO: A43
    BlackElo: 1979
    PlyCount: 202

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    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macavity
    Have only had to do this once in a tournament game also. Game is a bit scrappy, and I wasted a couple of tempi, but managed to do the mate pretty much by the book.


    Date: 2004
    White: Another
    Black: Macavity
    Result: 0-1
    ECO: A43
    BlackElo: 1979
    PlyCount: 202

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    May not have been the fastest, but it was good strategy to maneuvre into a known position and be sure of winning. Earlier on, was there any reason not to play 14... Bh6? White's Stonewall was far too stereotyped, and useless when Black hasn't played d5 to give White an e5 outpost.

  8. #8
    CC International Master Bereaved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    May not have been the fastest, but it was good strategy to maneuvre into a known position and be sure of winning. Earlier on, was there any reason not to play 14... Bh6? White's Stonewall was far too stereotyped, and useless when Black hasn't played d5 to give White an e5 outpost.
    Jono, the reason to not play 14...Bh6 was that it did not seem that good at the board, and seemed to lead to something like perpetual something the silicon monster agrees with.

    Fritz 8 gives a line something like

    (14... Bh6 15. Rf6 gxf6 16. Qxh6+ Kg8 17. Bg5 fxg5 18. Qxg5+) with perpetual

    I seem to recall that I had seen lines like 14...Bh6 15.Bxh6 gxh6 16.Rxf7+ Rxf7 17.Qxf7+ and thought perpetual at the time, so had avoided such lines. As it turns out such lines are rubbish as after 15.Bxh6 Qa5 will transpose to the game, or similar, and 15...gxh6?? loses quickly to 16.Rf6 and I'm stuffed

    Take care and God Bless, Macavity

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    At a high level of play KBN vs K happens about one game in 5000. I wonder if it is more or less likely than that or about the same at club level.

  10. #10
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    At a high level of play KBN vs K happens about one game in 5000. I wonder if it is more or less likely than that or about the same at club level.
    i'd guess less as i doubt club level players would actively look for such an ending; queens and rooks as pieces would tend to hold more interest especially to juniors
    .

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    i'd guess less as i doubt club level players would actively look for such an ending; queens and rooks as pieces would tend to hold more interest especially to juniors
    I would say it is about the same, but occurs for different reasons.

    In a top class game, the 'losing' player would resign before reaching the BN ending, because they 'know' that their opponent knows the winning patterns.

    In lower class games, the 'losing' player will attempt to get a BN ending, in the hope that the 'winning' player doesnt know how to do it in less than 50 moves.

  12. #12
    . eclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I would say it is about the same, but occurs for different reasons.

    In a top class game, the 'losing' player would resign before reaching the BN ending, because they 'know' that their opponent knows the winning patterns.

    In lower class games, the 'losing' player will attempt to get a BN ending, in the hope that the 'winning' player doesnt know how to do it in less than 50 moves.
    almost agreed except i would say in top level chess the losing player would not resign given the ending happens so rarely that it is worth putting the winning player to the test
    .

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic
    almost agreed except i would say in top level chess the losing player would not resign given the ending happens so rarely that it is worth putting the winning player to the test
    However, in some of the games above, the losing player trusted his opponent to win.

  14. #14
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    In a top class game, the 'losing' player would resign before reaching the BN ending, because they 'know' that their opponent knows the winning patterns.
    I've got databased examples of 2300s-rated players failing to win it. I think I heard of a case of a GM messing it up too.

    In lower class games, the 'losing' player will attempt to get a BN ending, in the hope that the 'winning' player doesnt know how to do it in less than 50 moves.
    As I did in the rapidplay game I mentioned.

  15. #15
    CC Rookie best-chess's Avatar
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    that is so professional, i like the idea of the interactivity

    thanks jono
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