Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 97
  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    30

    David Cordover's Schools Competition

    I am an admirer of David Cordover, and I was grateful for his terrific help in organising the Drouin Open.
    But I am resolutely opposed to his attempts to set up an alternative schools competition.
    The Age this morning (26th May, page 9 ) reported that "yesterday...about 60 budding Bobby Fischers...kicked off this year's Interschool Chess Championships".
    In fact schools all across Victoria have been playing since the beginning of May in what has long been regarded as the "Interschool Chess Championships" run by the VCA.
    My teams played at Stratford two weeks ago...and had a great time.
    It is evident though that the established competition (established for decades) is under threat from David's private competition.
    David, according to the Age, is offering a $10,000 prize package at the end so naturally it will tempt a lot of schools.
    I imagine that David is running his competition with business motives firmly in mind, and that the $10,000 will come from his profits.
    I don't so much object to this as to the fact that the "old" competition is threatened with decimation by the lures that David has thrown out.
    I love the old competition and was largely responsible for its establishment in Gippsland and I am damned if I am going to sit back and see it destroyed.

    David Bell
    Drouin Secondary College

  2. #2
    . eclectic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    .
    Posts
    2,840
    and is DC still a CV committee member ?

    need i say more ?

    eclectic
    .

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Crane, Poole & Schmidt
    Posts
    3,871
    I believe it's the desire of Cordover to expand his empire nationwide.. since Victoria is *the* location of privatisation you all should have seen this coming sooner. He is a businessman and is in it to make money and he's not the only one. Tiresome State Chess Associations will have to start either smartening up their act or batten down the hatches against the iminent Cordover expansion.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  4. #4
    CC Candidate Master jase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Paddington, in between Sydney city and Bondi Beach
    Posts
    485
    David Bell,

    It is a pleasure to hear from you.
    Wayen had told me of your move south some time ago but these details escape one without witness to the detail.

    Fair points, well argued. Question: have you expressed your views to The Age? You quote them; perhaps you ought to set the record straight in your eloquent fashion in a letter to either the journalist or the editor?

    Let's you and WG and I have a beer during the July school holidays - I will traverse my newly purchased motor scooter down the Hume for the occasion, with due deference in the form of a salute to old Narwee, which has changed not a jot.

    Best,
    Jase
    Last edited by jase; 26-05-2004 at 11:18 PM.

  5. #5
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    It doesn't have to have a negative impact.

    The ANU for years had run its chess festival and as part of that had the ACT Primary and ACT High Schools championships. The comps were fairly small with around 13 schools in the PS participating with maybe 30 teams.

    When the ACTJCL started in 1997 we decided to run a more broadly based schools comp with 4 zones (then 6) and a very active development program.

    At that point there was not a lot of co-operation between the people running the ANU and the JCL. The start of our comp was viewed as a negative thing and of course we wanted ours to be the "ACT" schools comps and their's to be the "ANU" school comps. In the first year the JCL comp attracted around 150 teams in the PS and it did have a negative impact on the ANU. By the second year however our comp had grown another 30% and the ANU was bursting at the seams.

    It has continued since then, with now a lot of co-operation between us and the ANU and schools are more than happy to enter both. We tend to distribute info about the ANU comp to schools who enter our zones.

    If it ends up as a fight between Chess Victoria and ChessGuru then it is harmful. If they publicise each others tournaments then both can grow. Any school that is activately playing chess, is probably keen to enter more than one competition.

  6. #6
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wollongong
    Posts
    4,254
    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    If it ends up as a fight between Chess Victoria and ChessGuru then it is harmful. If they publicise each others tournaments then both can grow. Any school that is activately playing chess, is probably keen to enter more than one competition.
    "If they publicise each others tournaments then both can grow." Yes, I agree, but will they? The term "Championship" has a great deal of commercial value. The trouble is that Victoria is such a [snip] little village that there is only room for one big noise.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 27-05-2004 at 01:12 AM. Reason: needlessly coarse.

  7. #7
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    "If they publicise each others tournaments then both can grow." Yes, I agree, but will they? The term "Championship" has a great deal of commercial value. The trouble is that Victoria is such a [snip] little village that there is only room for one big noise.
    Well maybe expecting them to co-operate to that point is overly idealistic, but at least not indulge in warfare!

    Both can be viewed as championships but with different prizes - CV's offers something money can't buy i.e the opportunity to represent their state at the ASCC. The other offers a gigantic prize fund.

    However I suppose it will all end up with blood on the floor - Chess people always fight as hard away from the board as across it.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 27-05-2004 at 01:15 AM.

  8. #8
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    30
    David Cordover has expressed the view that the VCA tournament does not offer enough opportunities for competition, and that schools should welcome having 3 or 4 other competition days during the year.
    Unfortunately, schools have neither the time nor the resources for this.
    Either they cannot afford a bus to cart the kids, or they cannot justify asking struggling parents to pay for yet another excursion.
    They certainly cannot take kids out of the school without disrupting the curriculum...and most teachers get pretty narky about disruptions (at secondary level).
    But the VCA competition is the one big competition of the year that schools look forward to.
    Some may feel that if David can expand competition into new areas good luck to him...and I agree...but in fact I have a strong feeling that he is going to cannibalise the existing competition.

    David Bell
    Drouin Secondary

  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,680

    Who is the cannibal?

    Quote Originally Posted by biggles
    I am an admirer of David Cordover, and I was grateful for his terrific help in organising the Drouin Open.
    But I am resolutely opposed to his attempts to set up an alternative schools competition.
    The Age this morning (26th May, page 9 ) reported that "yesterday...about 60 budding Bobby Fischers...kicked off this year's Interschool Chess Championships".
    In fact schools all across Victoria have been playing since the beginning of May in what has long been regarded as the "Interschool Chess Championships" run by the VCA.
    My teams played at Stratford two weeks ago...and had a great time.
    It is evident though that the established competition (established for decades) is under threat from David's private competition.
    David, according to the Age, is offering a $10,000 prize package at the end so naturally it will tempt a lot of schools.
    I imagine that David is running his competition with business motives firmly in mind, and that the $10,000 will come from his profits.
    I don't so much object to this as to the fact that the "old" competition is threatened with decimation by the lures that David has thrown out.
    I love the old competition and was largely responsible for its establishment in Gippsland and I am damned if I am going to sit back and see it destroyed.

    David Bell
    Drouin Secondary College
    hi David Bell

    You know I am personally sympathetic to your efforts, however, I notice that the ChessVICTORIA web-site still does not recognise Drouin as an affiliated Club. Mate, we need you in the tent to strengthen all. Until all possible Clubs join CV, and nominate people to the EXECUTIVE, then DC is going to have a free hand to further his interests by applying energy at the key decision-making points in chess administration. DC is competitive and no amount of regulation is going to dilute his energy. Only competition from other officials willing to stand for office can counter-balance the profiteer.

    In essence, CV has two assets.
    1) Titles. And with titles, the path to Australian Playoffs of Schools teams.
    2) Ratings. This advantage was eroded at the previous CV AGM when a motion was passed allowing non-affiliated bodies to have their events rated for a premium. (I presume the Drouin OPEN benefited from this).
    The chess community will watch with interest DC's bundling of Mt Buller senior events with a Schools playoff. If this happens then the erosion will be complete. The rationale to be 'affiliated' will have evaporated.

    Is Drouin going to apply to become affiliated, or remain with the 'cannibals'?

    regards
    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 27-05-2004 at 08:33 AM.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Crane, Poole & Schmidt
    Posts
    3,871
    Um, so why was Sweeney banned, for giving Victoria crap? Cos there shouldn't be much wrong with that :p
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  11. #11
    . eclectic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    .
    Posts
    2,840

    cannibalism from within

    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    The chess community will watch with interest DC's bundling of Mt Buller senior events with a Schools playoff. If this happens then the erosion will be complete. The rationale to be 'affiliated' will have evaporated.

    Is Drouin going to apply to become affiliated, or remain with the 'cannibals'?

    regards
    starter
    It's interesting that when you go to http://www.chessvictoria.com and click on "Affiliated Clubs" you don't find David Cordover's (aka ChessGuru;s) Chess World listed there.

    I note that Chess Ideas is.

    However, to be fair, the website isn't exactly prompt in being updated so this information might be erroneous.

    If the facts are true though then perhaps we have bit of a nerve to ask David Bell and the Drouin Chess Club to be affiliated given the event he helped set up in his region is now being appropriated by a non affiliated organisation.

    If there is insistance on affiliation then ALL clubs should be affiliated even if the fee is half price for the first five years.

    Let's add more salt to the wound and note that David Cordover still ? holds an executive position on the body against which he is competing.

    A final note.

    Is this latest venture by David Cordover perhaps an indication that the entire Victorian Schools competition is about to be sourced out to him?

    (cheers)

    eclectic
    .

  12. #12
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    The chess community will watch with interest DC's bundling of Mt Buller senior events with a Schools playoff. If this happens then the erosion will be complete. The rationale to be 'affiliated' will have evaporated.

    regards
    starter
    Umm - well I am not sure how bundled it is - for a start the ASCC is going to be held at the beginning of December - which is when the parent community wanted it and David has been sensitive to our needs.

    Secondly it will still only be one team from each state in each division and only the official body (in this case chess Victoria) will be able to endorse the representative team. Thus the rational to play in the "official" comp will remain.

    Secondly, it is a one off thing, from the end of next year it will be back to being held by the states. I know NSW is preparing their bid for the ASCC in Dec 2005 and the ACT has already started on their bid for Nov/Dec 2006.
    Last edited by jenni; 27-05-2004 at 10:10 AM.

  13. #13
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wynyard,Tas
    Posts
    2,424
    So who does own the rights to the title "Interschool Chess Championships" (or "Victorian Interschool Chess Championships") or is it so general that nobody can own it?

    I recall there was some recent discussion about an unuthorised transfer "championship" - personally I don't care who runs championships of chess variants and there is an argument that it is better that ACF not dilute itself trying to manage such things. However if anybody could set up an "Australian Chess Championship" that could be inconvenient.

    There is a comparsion with multiple world chess champions but Kramnik's title was at least initially referred to as "Brain Games World Champion" and there was no attempt to imply that it was recognised by FIDE. And of course there is boxing where there are about four organisations crowning world champions - I heard many years ago that with different weight divisions there were at the time 44 world boxing champions.

  14. #14
    CC International Master Rhubarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,635
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    why was Sweeney banned
    yes, why?

  15. #15
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Um, so why was Sweeney banned, for giving Victoria crap? Cos there shouldn't be much wrong with that :p
    He wasn't - it was other posts that resulted in the short ban.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. ACF March 2004 Ratings
    By Bill Gletsos in forum Ratings Arena
    Replies: 310
    Last Post: 14-04-2004, 03:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •